Black Diamond from Screen Innovations? - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 3676 Old 02-29-2008, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

"Go to the home page and click on 'tech specs' and it takes you here:

http://siscreens.com/specs.html"

Darn, I was hoping for a 133" 16:9.

Thanks

Possible, but you will have to wait longer for it and it will have a seam. The material is seamless up to just under 54" high.

It's black material, so maybe the seam will not even show.
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post #92 of 3676 Old 02-29-2008, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael W. View Post

From what I gathered on a 2.35:1, 133" was the max seamless size. I would have preferred 137" so that I can get a 110" 16:9, but if 133" is the max then I can live with it........barely.

It will be more like 137". I got this from Ryan at SI today. The material is seamless up to just under 54" in height. No limit on width. The max height for their largest seamless 16X9 and their largest seamless scope screen are supposed to be the same. SI merely made an error in calculations and put down 133" when it should be as large as what just under 54" in height should give (137"-138" diagonal). They also thought 133" was a common screen size, after which I explained that was true only for 16X9 screens and mentioned Vutec makes a 54"x127" Silverstar scope screen that gives a 110" 16X9 image. I mentioned another AVS forum member and I both had issues with having to choose between a 110" 16X9 image if we bought the largest 16X9 screen, or just a 106.5" 16X9 image if we bought the largest scope screen. He thanked me for pointing out the error with the largest scope screen being listed as 133" and planned to work on the sizing calculations with the engineer.
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post #93 of 3676 Old 03-03-2008, 04:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hrd View Post

It will be more like 137". I got this from Ryan at SI today. The material is seamless up to just under 54" in height. No limit on width. The max height for their largest seamless 16X9 and their largest seamless scope screen are supposed to be the same. SI merely made an error in calculations and put down 133" when it should be as large as what just under 54" in height should give (137"-138" diagonal). They also thought 133" was a common screen size, after which I explained that was true only for 16X9 screens and mentioned Vutec makes a 54"x127" Silverstar scope screen that gives a 110" 16X9 image. I mentioned another AVS forum member and I both had issues with having to choose between a 110" 16X9 image if we bought the largest 16X9 screen, or just a 106.5" 16X9 image if we bought the largest scope screen. He thanked me for pointing out the error with the largest scope screen being listed as 133" and planned to work on the sizing calculations with the engineer.

That is great news. Were you able to get any sort of pricing estimates from Ryan?
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post #94 of 3676 Old 03-03-2008, 06:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael W. View Post

That is great news. Were you able to get any sort of pricing estimates from Ryan?

The electric will be considerably more than the fixed frame, like $4000 compared to $2500, but nothing is certain as to pricing yet. That's MSRP. I'm sure discounted cost has got to be lower.
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post #95 of 3676 Old 03-03-2008, 12:13 PM
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"The electric will be considerably more than the fixed frame, like $4000 compared to $2500,"

Ouch; I thought fixed frames were in general less expensive than the same screen with electric.

In any case, that bordering on gouging IMO; the electric mechanism should only add $500.

My electric 133" HP was only $1k.

Noah
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post #96 of 3676 Old 03-03-2008, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

"The electric will be considerably more than the fixed frame, like $4000 compared to $2500,"

Ouch; I thought fixed frames were in general less expensive than the same screen with electric.

In any case, that bordering on gouging IMO; the electric mechanism should only add $500.

My electric 133" HP was only $1k.

I've looked at the prices for Da-Lite HPs. The electrics all seem to be around the same price, within a few hundred dollars from smallest to largest, which to me looks like most of the cost is in the roller mechanism. The Cinema Contour fixed frame has a huge range in price from smallest to largest, which looks like most of the cost is in the frame.
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post #97 of 3676 Old 03-03-2008, 05:58 PM
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So then they will have a 110" 16:9 seamless available? Still no firm msrp for the fixed frame other than $2500?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hrd View Post

It will be more like 137". I got this from Ryan at SI today. The material is seamless up to just under 54" in height. No limit on width. The max height for their largest seamless 16X9 and their largest seamless scope screen are supposed to be the same. SI merely made an error in calculations and put down 133" when it should be as large as what just under 54" in height should give (137"-138" diagonal). They also thought 133" was a common screen size, after which I explained that was true only for 16X9 screens and mentioned Vutec makes a 54"x127" Silverstar scope screen that gives a 110" 16X9 image. I mentioned another AVS forum member and I both had issues with having to choose between a 110" 16X9 image if we bought the largest 16X9 screen, or just a 106.5" 16X9 image if we bought the largest scope screen. He thanked me for pointing out the error with the largest scope screen being listed as 133" and planned to work on the sizing calculations with the engineer.

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post #98 of 3676 Old 03-03-2008, 09:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcleo19 View Post

So then they will have a 110" 16:9 seamless available? Still no firm msrp for the fixed frame other than $2500?

The prices are still estimates.

I talked to SI today. They went back to the drawing board over the size calculations, and the results are they found they can do 55.69" high on the scope screen and 55.39" high on the 16X9 screen. That means 130.87" wide for the scope screen and 113" diagonal for the 16X9 screen. The scope screen will do 113.7" diagonal when used for 16X9. It's on the website.
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post #99 of 3676 Old 03-04-2008, 08:08 AM
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$2500 is for what size fixed screen? Anyone know the estimate for a 92" diagonal 16:9?
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post #100 of 3676 Old 03-04-2008, 08:20 AM
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Thanks much for the info!

Quote:
Originally Posted by hrd View Post

The prices are still estimates.

I talked to SI today. They went back to the drawing board over the size calculations, and the results are they found they can do 55.69" high on the scope screen and 55.39" high on the 16X9 screen. That means 130.87" wide for the scope screen and 113" diagonal for the 16X9 screen. The scope screen will do 113.7" diagonal when used for 16X9. It's on the website.

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post #101 of 3676 Old 03-06-2008, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikenificent1 View Post

$2500 is for what size fixed screen? Anyone know the estimate for a 92" diagonal 16:9?

I got the pricing list from Ryan along with him saying first orders will be taken towards the end of March ("most likely.") They've also increased the max sizes (http://siscreens.com/specs.html)


MSRP:
Theater Reference 16:9 fixed screen.
Either .8 or 1.4 Gain
  • 80 $2099
  • 92 $2399
  • 100 $2599
  • 106 $2799
  • 110 $2999
  • 119 $3199 **ONLY UP TO 113"***

Cinema Reference 2.35:1 fixed screen.
Either .8 or 1.4 Gain
  • 80 $2099
  • 92 $2399
  • 100 $2599
  • 106 $2799
  • 110 $2999
  • 119 $3199
  • 133 $3399
  • 160 $3799 **ONLY UP TO 142"***
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post #102 of 3676 Old 03-06-2008, 11:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by h00kemh0rns View Post

I got the pricing list from Ryan along with him saying first orders will be taken towards the end of March ("most likely.") They've also increased the max sizes (http://siscreens.com/specs.html)


MSRP:
Theater Reference 16:9 fixed screen.
Either .8 or 1.4 Gain
  • 80 $2099
  • 92 $2399
  • 100 $2599
  • 106 $2799
  • 110 $2999
  • 119 $3199 **ONLY UP TO 113"***

Cinema Reference 2.35:1 fixed screen.
Either .8 or 1.4 Gain
  • 80 $2099
  • 92 $2399
  • 100 $2599
  • 106 $2799
  • 110 $2999
  • 119 $3199
  • 133 $3399
  • 160 $3799 **ONLY UP TO 142"***

Any word on what retractable screen prices will be?

Thanks!

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post #103 of 3676 Old 03-06-2008, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xyst View Post

Any word on what retractable screen prices will be?

Thanks!

Nothing as it's tentative to be released in 2nd Qtr...so you'd best look for that around the end of summer is my guess.
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post #104 of 3676 Old 03-06-2008, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by h00kemh0rns View Post

I got the pricing list from Ryan along with him saying first orders will be taken towards the end of March ("most likely.") They've also increased the max sizes (http://siscreens.com/specs.html)


MSRP:
Theater Reference 16:9 fixed screen.
Either .8 or 1.4 Gain
  • 80 $2099
  • 92 $2399
  • 100 $2599
  • 106 $2799
  • 110 $2999
  • 119 $3199 **ONLY UP TO 113"***

Cinema Reference 2.35:1 fixed screen.
Either .8 or 1.4 Gain
  • 80 $2099
  • 92 $2399
  • 100 $2599
  • 106 $2799
  • 110 $2999
  • 119 $3199
  • 133 $3399
  • 160 $3799 **ONLY UP TO 142"***

Just for clarification, SI is making the Black Diamond available in the same standard sizes that their current screens come in, except the 113 16X9 and the 142 2.35:1 are the largest seamless sizes they can do with the Black Diamond material. The cost for the 113 16X9 will be the cost of the 119 16X9. The cost for the 142 2.35:1 will be the cost of the 160 2.35:1. If you want a custom size, such as 84, it will be the cost of the 92, the next standard higher size. Hopefully, the street prices will be a lot lower.
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post #105 of 3676 Old 03-06-2008, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by h00kemh0rns View Post

I got the pricing list from Ryan along with him saying first orders will be taken towards the end of March ("most likely.") They've also increased the max sizes (http://siscreens.com/specs.html)


MSRP:
Theater Reference 16:9 fixed screen.
Either .8 or 1.4 Gain
  • 80 $2099
  • 92 $2399
  • 100 $2599
  • 106 $2799
  • 110 $2999
  • 119 $3199 **ONLY UP TO 113"***

Cinema Reference 2.35:1 fixed screen.
Either .8 or 1.4 Gain
  • 80 $2099
  • 92 $2399
  • 100 $2599
  • 106 $2799
  • 110 $2999
  • 119 $3199
  • 133 $3399
  • 160 $3799 **ONLY UP TO 142"***

Seems kind of odd pricing. Notice how the costs of the scope screens between 92 and 133 always go up by $200, whether the size increase is as small as 4 inches, as it is between the 106 and the 110, or as large as 14 inches, as it is between the 119 and 133. By comparison, the MSRP of the Vutec Silverstar is based on the square footage of the screen material added to the footage of the frame.

I guess the 133 scope is the one for me, since the 142 scope is $400 more for only 9" more size, and the width of the 142 is a fraction of an inch wider than my wall.
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post #106 of 3676 Old 03-06-2008, 01:21 PM
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Does anyone have any idea of what the typical street price is as a percentage of MSRP? Or does anyone know what the MSRP's are for their current screens?

I am trying to make a decision on whether to wait for this screen or to go ahead and get a BW Carada....which will depend on my internal cost/benefit ratio. Hence, my interest in the pricing.

Thanks for all the information shared thus far! You guys are great.
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post #107 of 3676 Old 03-06-2008, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcleo19 View Post

Does anyone have any idea of what the typical street price is as a percentage of MSRP? Or does anyone know what the MSRP's are for their current screens?

I am trying to make a decision on whether to wait for this screen or to go ahead and get a BW Carada....which will depend on my internal cost/benefit ratio. Hence, my interest in the pricing.

Thanks for all the information shared thus far! You guys are great.

I've seen Da-Lite HP screens sell for about 70 percent of MSRP and Vutec Silverstars for under 60 percent of MSRP.

I asked AV Science what kind of discount their other SI screens had, but it turned out they are not dealers for SI yet. Hopefully, they will be soon.
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post #108 of 3676 Old 03-08-2008, 12:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by h00kemh0rns View Post

Nothing as it's tentative to be released in 2nd Qtr...so you'd best look for that around the end of summer is my guess.

BLAST!!!! I made the silly assumption that they would be released at the same time.

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post #109 of 3676 Old 03-10-2008, 12:03 PM
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Anyone know if they will sell just the screen material ?. I would like to just recover my DIY BO screen.

If it's not UNIX, what is it ?
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post #110 of 3676 Old 03-10-2008, 05:16 PM
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From the estimated MSRPs, it looks like the majority of the cost is in the actual material. But I imagine they would offer the material itself for those who just want to swap screens.
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post #111 of 3676 Old 03-10-2008, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by h00kemh0rns View Post

Ryan stated to me that the Tsystem mount is made for switching out the screen material allowing for easy upgrades (like what I'll be doing initially.) I'll confirm that the screen material would be made to order without ordering the complete system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by h00kemh0rns View Post

Screen material will be available by itself. You won't need to purchase the whole system if you're looking to use within an existing frame.

This the current status.
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post #112 of 3676 Old 03-11-2008, 07:14 AM
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Has anyone seen it yet?
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post #113 of 3676 Old 03-11-2008, 07:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcleo19 View Post

Does anyone have any idea of what the typical street price is as a percentage of MSRP? Or does anyone know what the MSRP's are for their current screens?

I am trying to make a decision on whether to wait for this screen or to go ahead and get a BW Carada....which will depend on my internal cost/benefit ratio. Hence, my interest in the pricing.

Thanks for all the information shared thus far! You guys are great.

I was at Magnolia of Best Buy (a regular SI screens dealer) and got the retail pricing and unfortunately they are not willing to sell for less than retail. They stated that "because it was a special order item" the price was retail.

I guess our only hope is that Dell sells for less than retail or that AVScience becomes a dealer and decides to go less than retail.

I for one am not paying that high a retail price for a screen that I haven't had a chance to actually see for myself. I'd rather be certain of what I am getting with a Stewart Firehawk for $2500 +.
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post #114 of 3676 Old 03-11-2008, 09:49 AM
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I know that Projector Zone is an SI dealer. I have contacted them regarding the pricing and they let me me know that they will have their pricing in the next couple of weeks. The other SI screens they sell are for less than retail, so I am hoping BD follows the same pattern.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ngarn View Post

I was at Magnolia of Best Buy (a regular SI screens dealer) and got the retail pricing and unfortunately they are not willing to sell for less than retail. They stated that "because it was a special order item" the price was retail.

I guess our only hope is that Dell sells for less than retail or that AVScience becomes a dealer and decides to go less than retail.

I for one am not paying that high a retail price for a screen that I haven't had a chance to actually see for myself. I'd rather be certain of what I am getting with a Stewart Firehawk for $2500 +.

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post #115 of 3676 Old 03-12-2008, 08:15 PM
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I saw a demo of the Black Diamond screen today at a show in Minneapolis, MN. It is unbelievable. The difference is unreal.

They put a normal highend white screen over half of the picture and it was night and day.

You will love it. I can't wait to get my hands on one. The one we saw was 80". They said they can do up to 150" seamless.
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post #116 of 3676 Old 03-13-2008, 01:18 AM
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Wow, sounds great. What about the colors? No weird shifts? And shadow detail? Greetzz
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post #117 of 3676 Old 03-13-2008, 04:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChadZastrow View Post

I saw a demo of the Black Diamond screen today at a show in Minneapolis, MN. It is unbelievable. The difference is unreal.

They put a normal highend white screen over half of the picture and it was night and day.

You will love it. I can't wait to get my hands on one. The one we saw was 80". They said they can do up to 150" seamless.

They showed it with the lights all on at one point, right? And it still looked great?

Their website says:
Maximum Seamless Size
2.35:1 - 142" diagonal
16:9 -113" diagonal
4:3 - 93" diagonal
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post #118 of 3676 Old 03-13-2008, 06:38 AM
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Look amazing with the room pitch black or full of light.

Great colors in light or dark.
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post #119 of 3676 Old 03-13-2008, 08:13 AM
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That is good to hear. First and foremost I want the screen to be great with the lights off. Any sort of help with the lights on will be great, but I do not want that to impede its performance in the dark.
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post #120 of 3676 Old 03-13-2008, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guinness77 View Post

That is good to hear. First and foremost I want the screen to be great with the lights off. Any sort of help with the lights on will be great, but I do not want that to impede its performance in the dark.

I like the idea of being able to watch in the daytime and would surely use it for that. But I also have white walls and a white ceiling, which could make this screen the best possible screen for me for watching at night.

If it were not good enough for watching in the daytime, I'd give more considerations to a high gain screen and darkening the room as the best way to go for night-time viewing, like I was doing before I found out about the Black Diamond.

I want to see one myself first, though, before ordering one.
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