Black Diamond from Screen Innovations? - Page 95 - AVS Forum
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post #2821 of 3727 Old 01-08-2012, 08:35 AM
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Guys just got the RS55...replacing my vutech screen with BD. Couple of questions I have:

1. 2.35 vs 2.4:1? Which is the way to go? My installer tells me that 2.40 is the way to go as most recent movies are made in this format.
2. Screen gain: since I am spending this much, would like to have screen for a while...will eventually do 3D. Wondering if it's good to go 2.7 instead of 1.4? Have a completely light controlled room. Use it predominantly for sports and movies.
3. Read about issues with Sony and Mitsubishi..anyone paired with the new jvc?
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post #2822 of 3727 Old 01-13-2012, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stlcity View Post

Guys just got the RS55...replacing my vutech screen with BD. Couple of questions I have:

1. 2.35 vs 2.4:1? Which is the way to go? My installer tells me that 2.40 is the way to go as most recent movies are made in this format.
2. Screen gain: since I am spending this much, would like to have screen for a while...will eventually do 3D. Wondering if it's good to go 2.7 instead of 1.4? Have a completely light controlled room. Use it predominantly for sports and movies.
3. Read about issues with Sony and Mitsubishi..anyone paired with the new jvc?

what issues does the bd zero edge have with the sony 95
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post #2823 of 3727 Old 01-13-2012, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stlcity View Post

Guys just got the RS55...replacing my vutech screen with BD. Couple of questions I have:

1. 2.35 vs 2.4:1? Which is the way to go? My installer tells me that 2.40 is the way to go as most recent movies are made in this format.
2. Screen gain: since I am spending this much, would like to have screen for a while...will eventually do 3D. Wondering if it's good to go 2.7 instead of 1.4? Have a completely light controlled room. Use it predominantly for sports and movies.
3. Read about issues with Sony and Mitsubishi..anyone paired with the new jvc?

2.40 is probably closest to the aspect ratio of most movies these days. I see a lot of 2.39 movies. Should not be a problem with the JVC.

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post #2824 of 3727 Old 01-21-2012, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stlcity View Post

Guys just got the RS55...replacing my vutech screen with BD. Couple of questions I have:

1. 2.35 vs 2.4:1? Which is the way to go? My installer tells me that 2.40 is the way to go as most recent movies are made in this format.
2. Screen gain: since I am spending this much, would like to have screen for a while...will eventually do 3D. Wondering if it's good to go 2.7 instead of 1.4? Have a completely light controlled room. Use it predominantly for sports and movies.
3. Read about issues with Sony and Mitsubishi..anyone paired with the new jvc?

With Black Diamond Zero Edge we always match the native aspect ratio of the projector. i.e. the JVC and Sony are 2.35:1, the Projection Design is 2.37:1 etc. The ensures a full screen with no over-scan. There are two videos on our website illustrating how to setup wide aspect on Zero Edge.

SI Staff
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post #2825 of 3727 Old 01-30-2012, 12:15 AM
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Hi guys!!!

This is my first post and I read a lot on regard the BD from some of you guys....

I wonder if any one have a comment or know about the Screen Tech material from Germany, wich I found very similar to that from SI.

I already see the BD at CES in the Vellagio suite this year and the year before and I found the results very formidably astounishing......
please serv yourself and check the web site from screen-tech
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post #2826 of 3727 Old 01-30-2012, 02:19 AM
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I just got my JVC RS45 set up with a 110 inch Black Diamond Zero Edge 2.35 Screen so thought I would post here. Both the screen and the projector look incredible. I was a little worried about the Black Diamond after some of the posts here about speckles etc, but it looks amazing!!!!!! What you can't see from the webiste is the LED lighting feature that you can add for about US500 and which looks very nice.

The screen performs incredibly well in my apartment in the evening with all the lights on and doesn't wash out at all. I am very very very pleased with my choice for my living room, mainly based on how it looks (still feels like a living room and not a cinema) and how it performs. I can read a book or my housemate can be cooking in the kitchen and the picture is still perfectly clear, even with all the lights on.

I would caveat that by saying that I can see why some people could be disappointed as, during the day with direct sunlight, it doesn't do so well and does tend to wash out, even though I have electric blinds since I also have huge floor to ceiling windows and there are gaps in the blinds through which a fair amount of light gets through and in addition have titled floors and white walls!! Anyone buying this expecting perfect viewing conditions in sunlight will be disappointed but then I am pretty sure there isn't a screen that could handle that, my plasma used to wash out in these conditions.

The screen is pretty dam good though and I am really happy with it. I also can't see any of these speckles or anything that people talk about and did look for them, again some people must be more sensitive than others I guess.

Lastly, the team at Screen Innovations (particularly Shannon and Tabi since I ordered mine from overseas), were incredibly helpful from my initial purchase right the way through until I actually got the screen - I had some problems with customs etc, so a big thank you to them.

Would highly recommend the screen overrall. Note is a 3D film which is why it looks out of focus.
LL
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post #2827 of 3727 Old 01-30-2012, 02:20 AM
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I should also add that the pictures were taken with my iphone camera!
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post #2828 of 3727 Old 01-31-2012, 03:08 AM
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@leeirvine

Mother of god

I wish I could buy one of these in Germany. Red almost the whole thread. So if any SI fellow member reads this -> please bless our tiny market with your products

Greetings from Germany
Reinhard
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post #2829 of 3727 Old 01-31-2012, 07:31 AM
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Ordered my BD screen 2 weeks ago: shipped friday. 2.40 142" 1.4. Will go up in my theater in couple of days paired with the JVC RS55. Superbowl will be fun to watch although the team I want is not in it

Upgrading from RS1 and Vutech 1.0 gain screen...
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post #2830 of 3727 Old 02-01-2012, 04:31 AM
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I watch Iron Man 2 last night, now I am impressed....
LL
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post #2831 of 3727 Old 02-01-2012, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leeirvine View Post

I watch Iron Man 2 last night, now I am impressed....

Is it just an illusion created by the accent lighting, or does the screen bow a bit in the middle?
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post #2832 of 3727 Old 02-02-2012, 05:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r4Yn View Post

@leeirvine

Mother of god

I wish I could buy one of these in Germany. Red almost the whole thread. So if any SI fellow member reads this -> please bless our tiny market with your products

Greetings from Germany
Reinhard

You're not alone. I'm in Malaysia and I can't get it locally too. Even if it does exist here, it'll be at least 3 times more expensive.
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post #2833 of 3727 Old 02-02-2012, 06:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post

You're not alone. I'm in Malaysia and I can't get it locally too. Even if it does exist here, it'll be at least 3 times more expensive.

Ya, problem is there are'nt any comparable alternatives around

Anyway misery loves company

I ordered a DNP Supernova Core yesterday because I could get it locally for around $ 1500.- hoping it works as good as one of those diamonds
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post #2834 of 3727 Old 02-02-2012, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r4Yn View Post

Ya, problem is there are'nt any comparable alternatives around

Anyway misery loves company

I ordered a DNP Supernova Core yesterday because I could get it locally for around $ 1500.- hoping it works as good as one of those diamonds

Well your in luck there...in a "One-on-One" with a BD, the DNP would "smoke" the BD on all counts

The DNP is ISF rated, shows "absolutely" no graininess, has a far wider viewing cone, rejects ambient light better as coming from "any" direction, and costs less. MUCH less.

Hard to see where you could go wrong there....

Question remains, will you even bother to return to relate such a revelation?

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

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post #2835 of 3727 Old 02-02-2012, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

Well your in luck there...in a "One-on-One" with a BD, the DNP would "smoke" the BD on all counts

The DNP is ISF rated, shows "absolutely" no graininess, has a far wider viewing cone, rejects ambient light better as coming from "any" direction, and costs less. MUCH less.

Hard to see where you could go wrong there....

Question remains, will you even bother to return to relate such a revelation?

If you like I will

Guess you are referring to the 08-85 gain model of the Supernova. I'm afraid I ordered the 23-23 material. So I might have those issues like graininess? The high gain material was the only one available as an exhibition offer :/

I bought it though due to the affordable price it came with. Did you compared the Supernova with a BD in person?

Sry about my english and greetings from Germany
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post #2836 of 3727 Old 02-02-2012, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

Well your in luck there...in a "One-on-One" with a BD, the DNP would "smoke" the BD on all counts

The DNP is ISF rated, shows "absolutely" no graininess, has a far wider viewing cone, rejects ambient light better as coming from "any" direction, and costs less. MUCH less.

Hard to see where you could go wrong there....

Question remains, will you even bother to return to relate such a revelation?

That´s not entirey true. There are pros and cons with both screens (most pros with both then) I have compared both side by side (the 0.8).

Black diamond rejects ambient light from the sides far better than DNP. From the sides DNP rejects not that much, hence the wider viewing angle. For light rejection vertically they are pretty close.

Just one more word about viewing angle, I have a 4 piece row with my 2.40 screen. The outer seats are at the edge of the screen. With the Black Diamond there are no issues with the viewing angle in this setup whatsoever. You have to go even wider to experience a little drop in brightness, but also that is quite acceptable.

I agree that the DNP has less grainness, but this screen is also not completely free of this. But this is really not an issue with any of these screens in daily life unless you want to sit very close to them.

The BD has a clear benefit over the DNP when it comes to black level. The blacks are blacker. But the DNP has brighter white. You should ask yourself what is most important for you. I think your statements were far to drastic.

In my room I felt the SI was the overall winner, and a couple of others that took part of the comparison agreed.
Also to have a curved 2.40 screen as I have the SI BD was less expensive than the curved DNP. Some DNP models may be less expensive though, I have not checked all...

ps. I saw the new retractable Black Diamond screen from SI at the ISE show in Amsterdam this week. This is still a Beta-version, but it was looking very good!!
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post #2837 of 3727 Old 02-02-2012, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r4Yn View Post

If you like I will

Might be more polite to do that on a separate dedicated Thread. No, it positively would be best that way.

Quote:


Guess you are referring to the 08-85 gain model of the Supernova.
Reinhard

The +2.3 gain material, against which no BD measures up, and that is the screen we aspire to meet or exceed performance in our DIY Screen Coatings.

And you betcha....even the High Gain version is also without screen artifacts. I saw it demoed in FULL overhead lighting at Cedia using a 600 lumen PJ, something no other Screen Mfg came close to attempting.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

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post #2838 of 3727 Old 02-03-2012, 01:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

Might be more polite to do that on a separate dedicated Thread. No, it positively would be best that way.

Ok sir.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

The +2.3 gain material, against which no BD measures up, and that is the screen we aspire to meet or exceed performance in our DIY Screen Coatings.

And you betcha....even the High Gain version is also without screen artifacts. I saw it demoed in FULL overhead lighting at Cedia using a 600 lumen PJ, something no other Screen Mfg came close to attempting.

That sounds good to me But to be honest, I bought my supernova blindly because of the price. I won't be able do compare it with a BD but thats ok if it fits my room/setup. Although one thing I know fore sure: The BD Zero Edge is the best looking out there by far Anyway, form follows function imho.

Mfg Reinhard
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post #2839 of 3727 Old 02-03-2012, 09:01 AM
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BD isn't doing anything new and it's zero edge screen STILL HAS a visible black edge...

the guys over at diy have been doing real zero edge (non visible edge) floating screens for years

as for performance... you wont be disappointed in the dnp 23-23 black levels. the bd can not touch the 23-23 in white levels, color rendition (especially light yellows and flesh tones), or viewing cone.

at cedia, the 23-23 was the only screen that dared to show it's true self in the full lighting of the auditorium without any front, side, or top shading compromises. all the other big guys used tents, and/or top and side baffles to shade their screens and increase their performance. even so, without any compromises and just a 600 lumen pj, the 23-23 still had the best contrast.
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post #2840 of 3727 Old 02-03-2012, 10:42 AM
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I agree with much of what you wrote Armand, except:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Armand07 View Post

Just one more word about viewing angle, I have a 4 piece row with my 2.40 screen. The outer seats are at the edge of the screen. With the Black Diamond there are no issues with the viewing angle in this setup whatsoever. You have to go even wider to experience a little drop in brightness, but also that is quite acceptable.

(Assuming you use the .8 gain version that you referenced).

When you say "no issues" with your viewing angles on the BD to be more accurate it would be "I don't notice any issues."

There certainly will be visible hot-spotting from seats near one side edge of the screen on your BD screen. The side farther from you will be darker. It's physically impossible with the BD screen characteristics for that not to be the case - that's how it would measure objectively and it's very visible to folks like me (having seen these screens many times and checked out that specific characteristic of the BD screens).
I'd see it in a few second in your set up, guaranteed.

I only bring this up because, throughout my own exhaustive research in putting together my home theater, screens were probably the most problematic choice. Going on most people's reports was almost useless in one sense: I lost count of how many times I would read about a certain screen "There are no visible sparklies or screen texture" or "I don't experience any hot-spotting or viewing angle issues with this screen" only to encounter those screens in person and see those problems in spades.
I am rendered dumbfounded that anyone would miss the hot-spotting on these screens, let alone not see it when looking for it.

Which is why personally viewing screens, especially if you find yourself picky or sensitive to screen artifacts/hot-spotting, is definitely the best way to go if possible.

And, as I always say: none of that is to actually put down the BD screens since, otherwise, I find they are great at what they are made to do - maintain contrast in challenging conditions. All screens have compromises, the BD screens are not unique in that regard.
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post #2841 of 3727 Old 02-07-2012, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

Well your in luck there...in a "One-on-One" with a BD, the DNP would "smoke" the BD on all counts

The DNP ....... costs less. MUCH less.

How does US-Dollar 10,000 for a 120" 16:9 Supernova Core 23-23 sounds to you? Well, that's the pricing offered by the dealer in Malaysia.
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post #2842 of 3727 Old 02-07-2012, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post

How does US-Dollar 10,000 for a 120" 16:9 Supernova Core 23-23 sounds to you? Well, that's the pricing offered by the dealer in Malaysia.

It does'nt....but I'm sure it reflects the state of affairs that consumers must face in your country. I'm also sure that many other products are also priced ridiculously in your country .

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

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post #2843 of 3727 Old 02-07-2012, 10:41 AM
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When you see gain screen, screen size, how far the lens from the on-screen instructions. The room is dark, when your head side to side to see if there is a hot spot (part of the screen brighter than the rest and brioght point move your head movements) in the bright part of the screen, especially are white, some sparklies, gloss, if the whites look crushed.
Black Diamond II combination, we have seen in the past some of the best features of the black screen - that is, the plane Xscreen and Nexy support budget. It has excellent light Xscreen repellent ability and Nexy screen, light weight and flexibility.
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post #2844 of 3727 Old 02-09-2012, 08:03 AM
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I got my Supernova yesterday...but I irgnored the warning: "be careful not to overtighten". Guess you know the rest Now I'm waiting for 2 new parts connecting the frame.

I could instantly kill myself for being such a douche.
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post #2845 of 3727 Old 02-09-2012, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stlcity View Post

Guys just got the RS55...replacing my vutech screen with BD. Couple of questions I have:

1. 2.35 vs 2.4:1? Which is the way to go? My installer tells me that 2.40 is the way to go as most recent movies are made in this format.
2. Screen gain: since I am spending this much, would like to have screen for a while...will eventually do 3D. Wondering if it's good to go 2.7 instead of 1.4? Have a completely light controlled room. Use it predominantly for sports and movies.
3. Read about issues with Sony and Mitsubishi..anyone paired with the new jvc?

Have an RS40 with a 142" Dia. 1.4 and love it.
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post #2846 of 3727 Old 02-10-2012, 09:49 PM
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Why is it bright white looks shiny ? Is there a way to turn that down on a projector ? I'm using a Epson pc6010 on a 100 inch zero edge BD 1.4 screen. About 10 ft throw, all is great its just when white flashes it's crazy bright and looks shiny even with the brightness down to -10
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post #2847 of 3727 Old 02-11-2012, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruzer99 View Post

Why is it bright white looks shiny ? Is there a way to turn that down on a projector ? I'm using a Epson pc6010 on a 100 inch zero edge BD 1.4 screen. About 10 ft throw, all is great its just when white flashes it's crazy bright and looks shiny even with the brightness down to -10

What color mode are you using on the Epson ? Are you using Eco or Normal lamp mode ? I'm guessing Eco but just need to be sure here. Also, what gamma mode are you using? The Epson is abit of a light cannon and its pretty close to the screen, 1.4 gain might just be abit much, i kinda doubt you'd need that gain for a 100" with that throw. Of course that depends on your room and light control etc.
Higher gain screen do have a tendency to "sparkle", it might be this effect you are experiencing. Or that you simply have to much lumens.
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post #2848 of 3727 Old 02-11-2012, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by func View Post


What color mode are you using on the Epson ? Are you using Eco or Normal lamp mode ? I'm guessing Eco but just need to be sure here. Also, what gamma mode are you using? The Epson is abit of a light cannon and its pretty close to the screen, 1.4 gain might just be abit much, i kinda doubt you'd need that gain for a 100" with that throw. Of course that depends on your room and light control etc.
Higher gain screen do have a tendency to "sparkle", it might be this effect you are experiencing. Or that you simply have to much lumens.

I use that set up all the time make sure your dynamic shutter is set to fast. If it is to bright the .8 bd is actually a better paired screen for total light control and a totally dark room, if you use si calculator that what they recommend, however you should have some ambient light on in the room no with large screens if that is the only light your eyes are getting it is to fast of a dark to light.

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post #2849 of 3727 Old 02-12-2012, 11:48 AM
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Func I'm have it in Eco mode, it's an amazing picture just in some of those scenes we're the whole screen goes white it lights up the entire room. Didn't know higher gaijin screens give that sparkle look, guess that's what it is. No way to fix that i figure
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post #2850 of 3727 Old 02-14-2012, 04:07 AM
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Has anyone seen the new Draper with ReAct2 screen surface? How does it fare against BD and Firehawk?
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Projection Screens , Pure Acoustics Supernova C 250 Watt Center Speaker , Speaker Systems , Screen Innovations



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