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Screens > Black Diamond from Screen Innovations?
programmergeek's Avatar programmergeek 08:10 PM 02-15-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by leeirvine View Post

I watch Iron Man 2 last night, now I am impressed....

Re you using a anamorphic lens and what projector? What size screen any over shoot?

leeirvine's Avatar leeirvine 03:51 AM 02-16-2012
JVC RS45 - no lens - just using the lens memory function to zoom in and out for 2.35, which isn't perfect and requires some adjustments now and then but works well enough.
leeirvine's Avatar leeirvine 03:58 AM 02-16-2012
I attach some pictures, these were taken in the day time - around 3pm-4pm - so not direct sunlight but still a lot of light through the windows. I notice that during the morning when I have direct sunlight the image is more washed out since the sun is shinning directly onto the screen so would bear this in mind, but at this time of day the image is easily very watchable, even with the shades up and was actually really impressed. With the shades down, even with all the lights on, the image is incredible - in fact, now often have a light on when watching the projector (since it is in my living room).

Lee
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leeirvine's Avatar leeirvine 04:00 AM 02-16-2012
Sorry, Screen size is 110 2.35 screen.
func's Avatar func 11:35 AM 02-16-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by leeirvine View Post

Sorry, Screen size is 110 2.35 screen.

Is this the .8 gain or 1.4 ? Btw, nice view
DigsMovies's Avatar DigsMovies 02:11 PM 02-17-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Screen Innovatio View Post

With Black Diamond Zero Edge we always match the native aspect ratio of the projector. i.e. the JVC and Sony are 2.35:1, the Projection Design is 2.37:1 etc. The ensures a full screen with no over-scan. There are two videos on our website illustrating how to setup wide aspect on Zero Edge.

SI Staff

Any progress on an AT Black Diamond product? How soon until we might see something?
leeirvine's Avatar leeirvine 04:10 AM 02-19-2012
1.4 version. Thanks!
r4Yn's Avatar r4Yn 02:56 AM 03-01-2012
Hey leeirvine,

Since my trip with the DNP Supernova 23-23 wasn't worth it, I have a few questions for you.

Do you see any anoying graininess or sandy-like look an your BD ZeroEdge, especially in very bright areas? I had shadowstripes on my DNP from the left to the right like this. You can easily see them if you move your head back from the monitor. It would be very very helpful to me, if you upload a picture like mine

Greetings to your sunny place
Reinhard
AV Science Sales 5's Avatar AV Science Sales 5 10:38 AM 03-01-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by leeirvine View Post

I attach some pictures, these were taken in the day time - around 3pm-4pm - so not direct sunlight but still a lot of light through the windows. I notice that during the morning when I have direct sunlight the image is more washed out since the sun is shinning directly onto the screen so would bear this in mind, but at this time of day the image is easily very watchable, even with the shades up and was actually really impressed. With the shades down, even with all the lights on, the image is incredible - in fact, now often have a light on when watching the projector (since it is in my living room).

Lee

Well that room certainly shows the performance of a BD screen in a room with a lot of ambient light. Nice view by the way.
thezaks's Avatar thezaks 08:41 AM 03-02-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by leeirvine View Post

I attach some pictures, these were taken in the day time - around 3pm-4pm - so not direct sunlight but still a lot of light through the windows. I notice that during the morning when I have direct sunlight the image is more washed out since the sun is shinning directly onto the screen so would bear this in mind, but at this time of day the image is easily very watchable, even with the shades up and was actually really impressed. With the shades down, even with all the lights on, the image is incredible - in fact, now often have a light on when watching the projector (since it is in my living room).

Lee

I just noticed the light hanging from the ceiling. I'm guessing your projector is not ceiling mounted? How far from the ceiling and/or floor is your projector mounted?

Thanks, Dave
hughtt's Avatar hughtt 07:46 PM 03-13-2012
I just ordered a Zero Edge 1.4, 120", 2.35:1 screen with LED lighting to go with my JVC RS45. I feel silly because I paid more for the screen than for the projector.
AV Science Sales 5's Avatar AV Science Sales 5 09:31 AM 03-14-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by hughtt View Post

I just ordered a Zero Edge 1.4, 120", 2.35:1 screen with LED lighting to go with my JVC RS45. I feel silly because I paid more for the screen than for the projector.

You should not feel silly. Most people keep items like screens and speakers much longer than projectors. In the long run it is better to put good money into something that you are going to keep long term.
TimShadler's Avatar TimShadler 09:56 AM 03-14-2012
Just posted my 92" Black Diamond II .8 Gain Screen in the classifieds. PM me with any questions. Thanks!

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/vbcla...do=ad&id=17167
Will Binegar's Avatar Will Binegar 01:31 PM 03-14-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimShadler View Post

Just posted my 92" Black Diamond II .8 Gain Screen in the classifieds. PM me with any questions. Thanks!

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/vbcla...do=ad&id=17167

What's next for you?
r4Yn's Avatar r4Yn 03:18 PM 03-14-2012
Hey hughtt,

looking forward to your pictures and thoughts over it
hughtt's Avatar hughtt 08:04 PM 03-14-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by r4Yn View Post

Hey hughtt,

looking forward to your pictures and thoughts over it

Give me 3 weeks.
ozer19's Avatar ozer19 10:12 AM 03-21-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by hughtt View Post

I just ordered a Zero Edge 1.4, 120", 2.35:1 screen with LED lighting to go with my JVC RS45. I feel silly because I paid more for the screen than for the projector.

I also went with Zero Edge 1.4, 115", 16:9 screen along with Epson 6010. I felt the same but I like the screen very much and I dont see it going anywhere soon. Even until I get a 4K projector, the screen is future proof for that
isisyodin's Avatar isisyodin 02:50 AM 03-23-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayray View Post

So far my JVC RS50 and BD G3 1.4 are looking fantastic. The blacks are making the picture look absolutely amazing. Great combo
John

Hi, I noticed you have my PJ. I currently have a Da-Lite 1.3 gain 92in screen. With the BD G3, how does 3D look? Did you have non BD screen with the RS50? How would you rate the upgrade in both 2D and 3D, lights on and off?

I am considering the BD, but I would love to see one in person. I noticed that my local dealer carries them, so I will check with them. Just in case, anyone in the Plano, TX area would like to demo theirs to me and my wife?

Cheers
Screen Innovatio's Avatar Screen Innovatio 04:55 AM 03-27-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by leeirvine View Post

I attach some pictures, these were taken in the day time - around 3pm-4pm - so not direct sunlight but still a lot of light through the windows. I notice that during the morning when I have direct sunlight the image is more washed out since the sun is shinning directly onto the screen so would bear this in mind, but at this time of day the image is easily very watchable, even with the shades up and was actually really impressed. With the shades down, even with all the lights on, the image is incredible - in fact, now often have a light on when watching the projector (since it is in my living room).

Lee

Great pics, do you have high res? We will post on our website.

Thanks SI Staff
kazkioken's Avatar kazkioken 02:19 PM 03-29-2012
My previous screen was an 80" Carada with a 1.0 gain material using an Epson 8350. For the price and for the bedroom it was a great combination of bang for the buck. You can get better black level performance but the 8350 is such a killer picture for the price. I decided to go even bigger, basically taking almost the entire wall that faces the bed...definitely too large it's almost a 1:1 ratio of screen width to viewing distance...but we wanted maximum effect and zooming the projector out was just too much fun seeing it huge so we went for the larger screen.

Some early thoughts:

1: Hotspotting - compared to the flat white Carada which had almost unlimited viewing angle, the viewing cone of the BD 0.8 is much more narrow. While in bed it's perfect, moving outside of the tight area shows vignetting on the far side of the screen and in the extreme corners. It doesn't matter while watching straight on but something to consider if you need a wide angle of viewing. You will also notice when viewing straight on there is still some vignetting...if any of you are photographers it's kind of like what happens when you shoot wide open with a wide angle lens, you will get some vignetting in the corners. This also might be a function of sitting so close to the screen.

2: How black is it? - this is a hard question to answer because it depends on the kind of light hitting the surface, I mean, it's a screen meant to reflect light back outward. In neutral indirect light the .8 material looks to be about one shade brighter than black. It's dark, but not 100% black. More like...very dark grey. Depending on the amount of ambient light in the room you will see varying levels of absolute black on the screen. Attached pictures show mid day during the brightest it is with the blinds closed.

3: Does it lower the ultimate black level of your projector? - slightly, at least in my application there is still too much reflected light in the room even when pitch black to lower the black levels as compared to my old screen. The absolute black levels seem similar when using dynamic iris and the projector is showing a dark star field. Meaning: in my room, the Epson 8350 when showing a field of black has a similar brightness level on my BD screen as it did when I had my Carada 1.0. I've already packed and sold my old screen but had them up side by side to test and they looked almost identical with black showing on the projector. The 8350 has pretty good black levels so this was not an issue for me. Again to clarify I am talking about the darkest image level in a dark room. This shouldn't be any surprise the screen has a lower gain but it is still reflecting what the projector is spitting out.

4: Can I still see the bars? - yes. Absolutely even at night and all the lights are out using the .8 screen I can still see the bars when viewing a 2:35 image on my 16:9 screen. The black of the frame is darker than the black on the screen. Your application might be different, but I have a small room with white walls and silver metallic blinds. The bars do not "vanish" like you see on the videos online - they may in your room but not in mine. However, there is a substantial improvement from before and it is plainly obvious the amount of reflected light is vastly improved from before. So yes I can see the bars but they are much darker than before, and they stay dark even when the lights are on.

5: Worth it? - 100% YES. I am pretty astounded at the performance of this screen for my intended purposes: which is to watch a gigantic TV at all times of day with or without the lights on. Football season is particularly hard for me because we do not have "regular" tv's, just 3 projectors in various rooms all with the same issue of not being able to watch anything unless it is dark outside. This screen excels during the daytime, and especially at dusk when there is still light in the room or when you have the lights on - it's pretty astounding actually. If you have man cave with total light control you are better off getting a flatter image with a white matte screen and even gain. I don't have that situation so this is the best alternative.

6: What does it look like during the day? - I've attached pictures here that I just took of my bedroom and pretty much exactly what I see by eye. It is the worst case scenario...bright high noon light hitting the windows spilling onto half of the screen. All images are constant settings, EXIF data is retained if you want to have a look, untouched except processing jpeg from RAW. Remember this is with a $950 Epson projector. I've placed two white sheets of paper so you can see what the screen would have looked like before and to show what kind of dynamic range you can get during the very bright times of day. I've also shown different kinds of content so you can see 2.4:1, 16:9, bright, dark etc. This is being served by an HDI Dune Smart H1 media player (which I highly recommend). The projector in the living room is shooting onto a Stewart Grewhawk which works well in the evenings but it's black levels do not compare during the day.
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kazkioken's Avatar kazkioken 02:21 PM 03-29-2012
more examples
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Will Binegar's Avatar Will Binegar 10:00 PM 03-29-2012
Great shots! Thanks for sharing them.
isisyodin's Avatar isisyodin 12:04 AM 03-30-2012
Nice... How did you get away with 3 PJs in your home? That is awesome. We have a dedicated room in our house, but a few months ago I was toying with the idea of getting a second PJ in our bedroom... I mentioned it to my wife, and she just gave me that look, the dreaded disapproval look with an eye roll and quick snap... and that was the end of it.
Early this week, I had an opportunity to check out a zero edge with 1.4 gain hooked up to JVC RS50. I played Rango and Tron which were the only blu-rays available. I had control of lighting conditions which included some fluorescent and flood lights and a door to a very bright area with daylight and flourescent lighting. Animated movies tend to look bright in most setups, so Tron was really the test; I have to say it appeared to have significant more contrast than my 1.3 gain Da-Lite cinema contour on both pitch black and partially lit conditions. I was overall pleased and think that my wife and I could really enjoy the PJ more when our toddler is hanging out with us in the media room since it has the lights on whenever my son is in there.
However, I have to agree that the YouTube videos posted are not really depicting the real thing; I expected it, so it was my main reason for seeing one in person. I honestly thought that the image would be more vivid, but no, it is still far from either one of my Pannys which was a bit disappointing.
I am still on the fence, mainly due to pricing vs benefits on a light controlled room with the occasional hour or two that I need to have lights on. I could do without the zero edge, but for 110" which is what I want the 3K range is a bit high. If they were just closer to 1.5K range, I would pull the trigger now.
kazkioken's Avatar kazkioken 12:50 PM 03-30-2012
further clarification on #4 of my post above about the black bars still being visible - testing last night concludes it is due to two things: the absolute black level of the projector is not 100% black and the screen reflects this light as it should...also there is light spillage from the blinds and windows of the street lights (that are actually quite bright) at night coming onto the screen and reflecting back. The entire wall that the screen sits on gets light hitting it - placing some white paper on the screen at night shows there is significant improvement from before I'll try and do some pictures tonight to demonstrate.
booaaaa's Avatar booaaaa 07:58 AM 03-31-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by r4Yn View Post

Hey leeirvine,

Since my trip with the DNP Supernova 23-23 wasn't worth it, I have a few questions for you.

Do you see any anoying graininess or sandy-like look an your BD ZeroEdge, especially in very bright areas? I had shadowstripes on my DNP from the left to the right like this. You can easily see them if you move your head back from the monitor. It would be very very helpful to me, if you upload a picture like mine

Greetings to your sunny place
Reinhard

This must be the 2.3 gain
booaaaa's Avatar booaaaa 08:04 AM 03-31-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post


Might be more polite to do that on a separate dedicated Thread. No, it positively would be best that way.

The +2.3 gain material, against which no BD measures up, and that is the screen we aspire to meet or exceed performance in our DIY Screen Coatings.

And you betcha....even the High Gain version is also without screen artifacts. I saw it demoed in FULL overhead lighting at Cedia using a 600 lumen PJ, something no other Screen Mfg came close to attempting.

I think the 2.3 has issues. Whereas the 0.8 is a beauty
r4Yn's Avatar r4Yn 10:01 AM 03-31-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by booaaaa View Post

This must be the 2.3 gain

Yes it was. Haven't tried the 0.8 screen but i think it is much more suitable for hometheaters/living rooms.

Now I'm using a Draper ReAct II 1.2 gain because it's a hell of a lot cheaper compared to the diamond zero edge. Looks like this

I do think a 0.8 Zero Edge would outperform it but I am ok for now.
goneten's Avatar goneten 04:43 PM 04-12-2012
r4YN,

What speaker stands are you using in that pic? I like them.
hughtt's Avatar hughtt 06:45 PM 04-12-2012
Finally my 120" 1.4 gain screen arrived after 3 weeks waiting. It looks wonderfull when the sun is down and the lights are dimmed. During the day, with what I currently have on my windows, I don't think I really want to watch anything on it yet.
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goneten's Avatar goneten 04:36 AM 04-13-2012
Hughtt, you have an awesome system! I really like the look of the Zero Edge screen in your room (living room?). Every time you watch a movie it must be an event...
Tags: Projection Screens , Pure Acoustics Supernova C 250 Watt Center Speaker , Speaker Systems , Screen Innovations
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