Black Diamond from Screen Innovations? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 3689 Old 11-01-2007, 08:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Has anyone heard anything about the new Black Diamond screen from Screen Innovations being released at EHX? They are supposed to preview it and it will be available in two different gains and fixed or flexible. That's all I know about it so far. I've been eyeballing it and haven't seen any info anywhere.

Thanks!

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post #2 of 3689 Old 11-05-2007, 06:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Is anyone going to EHX that would be willing to stop by the booth and take a couple pictures of the Black diamond or get a few extra details?

Thanks y'all!

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post #3 of 3689 Old 11-06-2007, 11:42 AM
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I emailed them about it a couple weeks ago (my company is an SI dealer) and they told me that the Black Diamond screen would be out sometime in Q4. No specific date though. I am really looking forward to seeing this screen in action - everything I have seen on it looks awesome.
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post #4 of 3689 Old 01-15-2008, 11:13 AM
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I spoke with them last week and the rep said they planned to ship in march. He said price talk would be mid to high 2k range on a 92" wide(not diagonal) They have pics in their gallery:

http://www.siscreens.com/gallery.html
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post #5 of 3689 Old 01-15-2008, 08:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Appreciate the feed back! That sounds much more reasonable than a similar DNP model I looked at. The dealer in NYC was quoting several times that for a DNP. I am looking forward to hearing about this baby as the time draws near and hope that it can reasonably deliver on it's promises.

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post #6 of 3689 Old 01-16-2008, 12:59 PM
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Does anyone know who the mfgr of the Black Diamond is?

Noah
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post #7 of 3689 Old 01-16-2008, 07:04 PM
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Interesting.

I follow the topic to read the comments.

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post #8 of 3689 Old 01-17-2008, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

Does anyone know who the mfgr of the Black Diamond is?

Here you go:

http://www.siscreens.com/
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post #9 of 3689 Old 01-17-2008, 12:42 PM
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Are you sure they make it, not just sell it?

I believe SI sold the original dnp Supernova, but put their own name on it.

It could be purchased for less as a Supernova, and I'm wondering if the same is true with the BD.

Noah
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post #10 of 3689 Old 01-17-2008, 05:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

Are you sure they make it, not just sell it?

I believe SI sold the original dnp Supernova, but put their own name on it.

It could be purchased for less as a Supernova, and I'm wondering if the same is true with the BD.

I remember that dnp was the supplier for a while, and I'm personally not sure if the new Black Diamond is the same as the SuperNova Flex or not. It would seem like it is not simply because the Flex has been available for a couple years now and it seems that SI keeps pushing the release date back on this. If they were simply distributing a product, or recasting it, you would think they would have released this long ago.

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post #11 of 3689 Old 01-17-2008, 07:48 PM
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Is the Supernova Flex black? What caught my eye about the BD was something I read where they described it as "looking like a plasma display when not On" or some such.
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post #12 of 3689 Old 01-18-2008, 03:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laserfan View Post

Is the Supernova Flex black? What caught my eye about the BD was something I read where they described it as "looking like a plasma display when not On" or some such.

No, the Supernova is more of a silver... here

I'm not sure I'd go so far as one of these black screens looks "like a plasma" when off. I would assume that has a lot to do with how you frame it, but you can make your own call there. Here.
The 1st 2 pictures there are of the new black diamond.

I'm not sure if this is going to work as well as they claim it to, from everything I've read on the Mirage and the SuperNova they're just not up to par...they work great in the dark, and they work okay with some ambiant light, but I'm not expecting miracles out of this. Hopefully just an incremental improvement.

I'm still excited about it though, and looking forward to the release none-the-less. My hope is that this is a brand new material and not the recycled SuperNova as those screens have not been reviewing terribly well.

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post #13 of 3689 Old 01-18-2008, 04:16 PM
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Well, I can't find it again but I'd read that someone who'd seen it said it looked like a flat panel display when off. Hard to tell from the pics, the gallery shot on the left looks pretty dark though.

Their website seems hosed-up atm but hopefully more & better info will come forward soon...
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post #14 of 3689 Old 01-19-2008, 12:17 AM
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Been waiting for it for a long time
However they keep on postponing which is not very promissing about its performance... So far nobody has seen any demo with their screen. It's quite disapointing
We'll see
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post #15 of 3689 Old 01-19-2008, 10:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moa View Post

Been waiting for it for a long time
However they keep on postponing which is not very promissing about its performance... So far nobody has seen any demo with their screen. It's quite disapointing
We'll see

Agreed, by the time they finally get around to releasing it I'll probably just buy a house and build a dedicated theater instead. I seem to remember someone posting a while back that they had seen it in action and were very impressed by it. Maybe we'll be surprised.

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post #16 of 3689 Old 01-21-2008, 08:19 PM
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SI just released a video of the BD at youtube.com/watch?v=ESAiUf6mV20 . I'm also hearing that March is becoming a pretty firm release date for the BD. From what I've heard the BD is a variation on the Sony's DynaClear screen but the gain is different and SI is bringing the screen to market with a different substrate that is far more resilent than the tissue thin potato chip bag texture of the DynaClear. SI has an exclusive on the technology so the mfg discovery is moot.
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post #17 of 3689 Old 01-22-2008, 07:08 AM
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Thanks for the link--the one shot therein where the ambient light was "dark" there didn't seem to be much difference from the non-BD screen. Still, I'm excited about this and look forward to their offerings (two gains to choose from?) ASAP.

Maybe I'll wander-in there one day and see what they can tell me (north Austin).
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post #18 of 3689 Old 01-22-2008, 08:06 AM
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In a dark environment, the fact there wasn't a difference is a good thing. The physics involved in creating a light tolerant projection screen typically creates some give and take that skews the picture in a "traditional" home theater environment. The Supernova has a noticable hot spot issue, Greyhawk has a blue push, etc. Granted, this video is not proof positive of substantial gains (no pun intended) in moving two piece projection forward. They'll need to show a more natural setting with real life conditions with various angles, intensities and types of light to demonstate the claims for BD. But I like what I see so far...
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post #19 of 3689 Old 01-22-2008, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beyondballistic View Post

The physics involved in creating a light tolerant projection screen typically creates some give and take

Of course, but I was merely looking for perfection in all aspects! Brighter whites! Blacker blacks! In bright ambient or dark! In sickness and in health! Til death do us part!
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post #20 of 3689 Old 01-22-2008, 11:06 AM
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Anyone know what the two gains are?

Noah
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post #21 of 3689 Old 01-23-2008, 08:20 AM
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I remember someone from SI telling me the two gains are 1.4 and .85 and the half gain angle is 45.
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post #22 of 3689 Old 01-23-2008, 10:56 AM
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Hello,
I'm building my first home theater and new to AVSforum. This is my first post so I hope this info is helpful.

The final specs have not been ironed out yet, but the High gain and the low gain versions are going to be somewhere around 1.3-1.4 and .08-.09 respectively. The screen material is different from the old Visage screens but is supposed to outperform it 10:1.

One area that bums me out a bit is the fact that the biggest screen size you can get is 110" other wise you have to go to a 2.35:1 screen which can get to 133". I was hoping to put a 120" screen on my wall due to the fact that my head will be somewhere between 14-15ft back (first row) and second row will be 19-20ft back (second row).

Does anyone have any perspective on whether a 110" screen will look to small at that distance? I am thinking about useing either the new Epson 1080UB or the Sony VW60 if that helps.

FYI:
Also, they now have the YouTube video posted on their website siscreens.com (somewhat higher resolution video).
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post #23 of 3689 Old 01-23-2008, 07:51 PM
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Bummer on the size.

I have a 133" 16:9 that I watch from between 11' and 14' depending on how many guests.

For me 110" would be too small, but no matter how big of a screen you get, you get used to it.

Noah
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post #24 of 3689 Old 01-23-2008, 08:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Very nice video indeed!

Is it perfect in that it produces the same picture in light as in dark? No, but I don't expect it to either. It looks like it will give me a watchable picture when I want have a lamp on in the room.

One thing that I am very cautious about with this screen and this video is they have not shown the lighting in the room. From the video you can tell it is fairly bright (or the camera is adjusted to show that) in the room, but they are not showing the light source...can lights, lamps, torch lights etc. Now are they showing placement...this would go a long way towards demonstrating this screens capabilities. Again, with this type of technology I'm not expecting miracles but I do enjoy what I see so far!

Thanks for sharing the video...if only March would get here! (And I could find a SI dealer!!!) I wonder if AVS would consider carrying SI?

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post #25 of 3689 Old 01-23-2008, 08:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

Anyone know what the two gains are?

I seem to recall there being mention of a 2.0 gain and a lower one but don't remember what. It's possible I made that up as I can't find mention of it anywhere.

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post #26 of 3689 Old 01-24-2008, 03:17 PM
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Another possible pitfall is that if videos are anything like screenshots, and I don't see why they wouldn't be, dynamic range limitations of the camera sensors crush blacks, making them look darker than they really are.

Years ago I'd see tons of screenshots w/inky blacks, of LCD pj's w/400:1 CR.

Noah
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post #27 of 3689 Old 01-24-2008, 08:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

Another possible pitfall is that if videos are anything like screenshots, and I don't see why they wouldn't be, dynamic range limitations of the camera sensors crush blacks, making them look darker than they really are.

Years ago I'd see tons of screenshots w/inky blacks, of LCD pj's w/400:1 CR.

You make a valid point Noah, and another good mention that ALL screen shots should be taken with a grain of salt. I know from my experience as a photographer that it's very easy to make a dim room look brighter than it actually is. In fact one of the harder things to accurately photograph is a dark scene. It is very easy to compensate for the low light to make the scene look much brighter than it is.

I've read all of the reviews I could get my hands on of the DNP SuperNova and the original SI Visage screens. Neither of those truly impressed me. Sony's Dynaclear, it seems, has mainly flown under the radar of reviews so it has been hard to get a decent opinion of it. There is an AVS member who is using one as his primary screen and has weighed in considerably.

The more you read, and the longer you look, it all comes back to light control. If the manufacturers pushing Black Screen technology can give those people with out man-caves even a little help then I'll embrace their ideas with open arms.

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post #28 of 3689 Old 01-25-2008, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xyst View Post

Very nice video indeed!

Is it perfect in that it produces the same picture in light as in dark? No, but I don't expect it to either. It looks like it will give me a watchable picture when I want have a lamp on in the room.

One thing that I am very cautious about with this screen and this video is they have not shown the lighting in the room. From the video you can tell it is fairly bright (or the camera is adjusted to show that) in the room, but they are not showing the light source...can lights, lamps, torch lights etc. Now are they showing placement...this would go a long way towards demonstrating this screens capabilities. Again, with this type of technology I'm not expecting miracles but I do enjoy what I see so far!

Thanks for sharing the video...if only March would get here! (And I could find a SI dealer!!!) I wonder if AVS would consider carrying SI?

The only one I have found is Magnolia through Best Buy.
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post #29 of 3689 Old 01-25-2008, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beyondballistic View Post

SI just released a video of the BD at youtube.com/watch?v=ESAiUf6mV20 . I'm also hearing that March is becoming a pretty firm release date for the BD. From what I've heard the BD is a variation on the Sony's DynaClear screen but the gain is different and SI is bringing the screen to market with a different substrate that is far more resilent than the tissue thin potato chip bag texture of the DynaClear. SI has an exclusive on the technology so the mfg discovery is moot.

Now if they can do it for a small multiple of the $200 that the Sony Dynaclear costs I'll be impressed...I would've already bought the Sony if they would make anything bigger than 80"...my pjs 20 feet away and I can't squeeze the image any smaller than 92".
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post #30 of 3689 Old 02-10-2008, 05:33 PM
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Looks like I'll be one of the lucky ones that will get to view this in person at the SI office. I'm impressed by the video and want to see if it lives up to expectations. I'll be candid in my opinion and hopefully I can see a side by side with other screens (i.e. silhouette, visage, etc.)

I'm hoping this thing really lives up to the video and hype. And I'm sure SI is as I'll be first in line to buy the BD.
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