Cine4home preliminary review of Planar PD8150 - Page 12 - AVS Forum
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post #331 of 532 Old 05-14-2008, 09:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Carskadon View Post

Ya, but what does he really know...


He knows enough to answer us some questions, but we "lost" him in these last days...

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post #332 of 532 Old 05-14-2008, 09:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

The real question would be whether a 7% decrease is noticeable, certainly not very significant.


Everything is noticeable in the picture, but personally i am more concerned about the lamp and its lifetime characteristics than this 7% difference.

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post #333 of 532 Old 05-15-2008, 12:08 AM
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"If one chooses the short throw lens , are there any downsides to that ?"

"As Bob wrote before "There is about a 7% brightness decrease going from full wide to full tele."

That's the difference between wide and tele for a given lens, not the difference between short and long throw lenses.

Noah
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post #334 of 532 Old 05-15-2008, 12:20 AM
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Maybe i am wrong , but i believe same thing happens (more or less in terms of numbers) also with the lenses.
Short throw is "wide" and long throw is "tele" lense.
What do you believe noah ?

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post #335 of 532 Old 05-15-2008, 12:28 AM
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If you check the specs of the projector, you will find the following about the lens....

"Projection Lens:All glass, F/2.5~2.71, f = 39.1~50.1mm, 1.3x manual zoom, made in Japan"

...and if you see the difference in the F, you will find the difference of 7% Bob mentioned.
The thing is that i find it difficult for the short through lens to have the same specs, and i believe the ones given above are for the long through.

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post #336 of 532 Old 05-15-2008, 09:45 AM
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Hi!

I'm interested in the new Planar projectors. Could someone test, if the 8150/8130 is compatible with time-sequential stereo-3D (shutter-glasses). My Optoma H57 is not able to produce a stereo-3D picture without tearing in most modes. Would be fine, if the Planars weren't that choosy.
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post #337 of 532 Old 05-15-2008, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Browser1 View Post

if you see the difference in the F, you will find the difference of 7% Bob mentioned.

Remember, though, that f-stops run as a ratio function, not linearly. Each f-stop marked on the barrels of variable-iris lenses passes one-half the amount of light as the next wider f-stop. And the absolute f-stop number doubles as the light is reduced by one-quarter. For example, f8 passes one-quarter the amount of light as f4 does, which is 2 f-stops wider than f8.

So, working from f2.5, an f-stop of about f3.5 would pass one-half as much light and an f-stop of f5 would pass one-quarter as much light.

Just eyeballing the change in f-stop, I'd guess that it's about a 1/3 f-stop from f2.5 to f2.71. If that's approximately correct, then the change in light being passed is about 16% less, not 7%.
-H

About 3db down from normal....
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post #338 of 532 Old 05-15-2008, 10:55 AM
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"Maybe i am wrong , but i believe same thing happens (more or less in terms of numbers) also with the lenses.
Short throw is "wide" and long throw is "tele" lense. "

Of course you're correct, my mistake.

Noah
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post #339 of 532 Old 05-15-2008, 11:06 AM
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f/2.5-2.7 is nice and wide. That should make it bright will irises wide open.
It has a shallow depth of field but thankfully our screens are skinny!

Next projector will have LEDs, >=1080 res, >=10 bit color, >14bit CR, >9 bit ANSI CR, >=120Hz, >16ft.L on 12ft 2.35:1 screen, <$12bit price

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post #340 of 532 Old 05-16-2008, 12:11 AM
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Indeed.

The lens in terms of F is very good. I think marantz lenses are the only ones that i can remember that the F is constant from wide to tele. In most projectors the F has big difference.

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post #341 of 532 Old 05-16-2008, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Browser1 View Post

If you check the specs of the projector, you will find the following about the lens....

"Projection Lens:All glass, F/2.5~2.71, f = 39.1~50.1mm, 1.3x manual zoom, made in Japan"

...and if you see the difference in the F, you will find the difference of 7% Bob mentioned.
The thing is that i find it difficult for the short through lens to have the same specs, and i believe the ones given above are for the long through.

The short throw lens has the same performance requirements as the long throw lens. The focal length will be different, but the f-numbers will be similar.
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post #342 of 532 Old 05-16-2008, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Odysee View Post

Hi!

I'm interested in the new Planar projectors. Could someone test, if the 8150/8130 is compatible with time-sequential stereo-3D (shutter-glasses). My Optoma H57 is not able to produce a stereo-3D picture without tearing in most modes. Would be fine, if the Planars weren't that choosy.

It depends on the frame rate of the video. They are not compatible with 120Hz video (60Hz per eye) but should work at 60Hz.
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post #343 of 532 Old 05-17-2008, 07:02 AM
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Bob/Brian-

Any screen recommendations for the PD8150? Thanks.

Bob
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post #344 of 532 Old 05-17-2008, 04:01 PM
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Maybe I need to reread this thread....was the "optional" short throw lens always optional or as well "selectable" for the purchase of the 8130 (or 8150) ? If selectable, also in Europe ?

Cheers, Andreas
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post #345 of 532 Old 05-17-2008, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas View Post

Maybe I need to reread this thread....was the "optional" short throw lens always optional or as well "selectable" for the purchase of the 8130 (or 8150) ? If selectable, also in Europe ?

Not exactly sure how you are distinguishing 'optional' and 'selectable', but it's been stated that the short throw lens costs $800 extra.
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post #346 of 532 Old 05-18-2008, 01:16 AM
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Selectable as in one can select it immidiately for the purchase of a 8130/8150 to come with the projetor and save the costs. What am I supposed to do with two lenses ? Or do you mean it is selectable as I mean it and the kit price rises by 800 dollar, because the short throw is maybe more expensive ?

Cheers, Andreas
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post #347 of 532 Old 05-18-2008, 07:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas View Post

Selectable as in one can select it immidiately for the purchase of a 8130/8150 to come with the projetor and save the costs. What am I supposed to do with two lenses ? Or do you mean it is selectable as I mean it and the kit price rises by 800 dollar, because the short throw is maybe more expensive ?

To start with, it must be purchased in addition to the normal projector which comes with a longer throw lens (1.85 - 2.40:1). The short throw (1.56 - 1.86:1) will fit both the PD8130 and the PD8150. If the demand is high enough, I will make a seperate model(s) that you can order that will come with the short throw lens. The lens will be available in Europe at the same time it is available in the US - which is July.

Brian Carskadon
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Brands: Runco, Vidikron, Planar
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post #348 of 532 Old 05-18-2008, 07:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Williams View Post

It depends on the frame rate of the video. They are not compatible with 120Hz video (60Hz per eye) but should work at 60Hz.

60Hz would be just fine. I'm only playing games in Stereo-3D - no need for 3D-video for the moment. My H57 SHOULD also work @ 60Hz. Sometimes I have to run at native res - another day it only runs at 720p without tearing. The 8130/8150 seems to be very flexible in res/frequency - so I hope it works with shutterglasses.
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post #349 of 532 Old 05-18-2008, 07:23 AM
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Thx Brian for the prompt advice. I would need a 203cm wide (ca. 80 inches) picture and can only offer 380cm (ca. 149,6 inches) distance, screen to lens glass (maybe a tad more or less). I heard from my dealer 400cm are necessary for that width, so I fear I will need the short throw and cannot meet the extra budget, as the 8130 would be my target.....oh wow, time will tell...

edit: the 8130 caculator says 376cm vs. my rough available 380cm....he..he...

Cheers, Andreas
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post #350 of 532 Old 05-18-2008, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Carskadon View Post

To start with, it must be purchased in addition to the normal projector which comes with a longer throw lens (1.85 - 2.40:1). The short throw (1.56 - 1.86:1) will fit both the PD8130 and the PD8150. If the demand is high enough, I will make a seperate model(s) that you can order that will come with the short throw lens. The lens will be available in Europe at the same time it is available in the US - which is July.

Yeow, I hadn't realized that the pj actually arrived with the long throw and one had to buy the short throw in addition (had just assumed that it was more expensive to produce the short throw). This is rather ridiculous, if you'll pardon me being direct. Let's hope that you do decide to offer the pj directly with the short throw lens.

Also, it would surely be nice if the 'short throw' lens were as short as the Sim2 and Marantz pj's (1.50), or even better if it were as short as the JVC RS1/2 (1.36). Since the 8150 is so bright, many will like to use a large screen, and in a room with a fixed throw distance, this obviously means a short throw ratio.
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post #351 of 532 Old 05-18-2008, 11:32 AM
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Brian,
regarding the short throw lens:
1) How complicated is it to install? Will it come with the manual?
2) Is it installed on top of the existing long throw lens or you exchange them (remove the long throw)?

I am truly decided on the new Planar (PD8150) but the short throw lens is the only option for me.

Thanks
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post #352 of 532 Old 05-18-2008, 10:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Williams View Post

Negative pulsing is part of the lamp subsystem and is part of the lamp power waveform which is synchronized to the color wheel. By "waveform", I am simply referring to the fact that the power to the lamp varies with time, and there are 3 major parts to this.

1. The brightness of the lamp changes depending on which color segment is currently in front of it. This is sometimes called "variable plateau" because when you look at a graph of this over time it looks like stair steps. What this means to the projector is that we can now separate the color saturation from the white point and give you very close to a true REC709 color gamut and a true D65 white point without reducing brightness or contrast through a color correction algorithm. We do still color calibrate every projector on the production line to remove the last tolerances from the system, but when that's done you only lose 0-5% of the brightness and contrast.

2. "Negative Pulse". The lamp brightness is dropped to 50% twice during each color wheel revolution. During this time the DMD is processing only that part of the image which is below 50% brightness. The DMD is gained up 200% to take advantage of the full brightness range and processes the image at its full bit depth capabilities. Using this process, 1 additional bit is added to the image, reducing dithering in dark areas by 50%. This in essence adds two dark segments to the color wheel, and actually works better than what's typically done with ND color wheels.

3. "Maintenance Pulse". Twice per revolution a small pulse is added to stabilize the arc and to improve lamp life. This will greatly reduce lamp flicker.

Regarding the rainbow effect, although none of the above techniques are done to minimize this, because the native color temperature is so close to D65, rainbow artifacts are naturally reduced. The more color correction you do, the larger the gaps are in the rainbow artifacts and the more noticeable they are.



Bob, is it possible to have a comment about what happens during lamp lifetime combining it with the above systems mentioned?

I believe that the characteristics of a lamp changes, in some points a lot.

These subsystems compensate somehow according , let's say , a theoretical factor or not?

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post #353 of 532 Old 05-19-2008, 12:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobe View Post

Brian,
regarding the short throw lens:
1) How complicated is it to install? Will it come with the manual?
2) Is it installed on top of the existing long throw lens or you exchange them (remove the long throw)?

I am truly decided on the new Planar (PD8150) but the short throw lens is the only option for me.

Thanks


1) It's very simple - I have done it several times. We will provide instructions.
2) You exchange the lens (remove the standard lens)

Brian Carskadon
Director of Product Management
Planar Systems, Home Theater Business Unit
Brands: Runco, Vidikron, Planar
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post #354 of 532 Old 05-19-2008, 05:16 AM
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Screen Recommendations, please. Thanks
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post #355 of 532 Old 05-19-2008, 06:08 AM
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Good to hear that,
Thanks Brian.

PS.
I have to tell you I very much appreciate that you set the price here in Europe in the same ballpark as in US (after recalculation). Many other PJs are unreasonably priced much higher. I like Planar a lot. I am going to order PD8150. My next PJ will as well be LED driven and silent Planar PD9150 in 2009!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Carskadon View Post

If the demand is high enough, I will make a seperate model(s) that you can order that will come with the short throw lens. .

I'll really appreciate if you could have a short option instead of an "add on"... Since it's very easy to change, it could even be done by your dealer at each country/state. This will be a $800 price advantage for your competitiveness. Considering the average apartment size in Europe, the "short" lens will be very much in demand.
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post #357 of 532 Old 05-21-2008, 01:33 PM
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Mark me as one who's going to do the PD8150 but needs the short throw lens.

I can mount the projector anywhere from 14 to 17 feet from the screen and was shooting for a 144" CH setup. If I'm calculating correctly, this should be doable with the Panamorph 480 lens, no?

Room will be totally light controlled, and I'm going with a Draper Clarion screen/Eclipse masking system. Any recommendations on screen material?

Home Theater is BAD for the waistline.
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post #358 of 532 Old 05-21-2008, 10:49 PM
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Are there any soild dates yet that we can expect some more reviews on this unit other then Jason's? Like WSR or Projectorcentral.

Mankite
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post #359 of 532 Old 05-22-2008, 10:23 AM
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For those of you considering Planar, I can tell you from experience that their support is second to none. I have experience with the 7130, 7150 and have demo'ed the 8130 (should have my own any day now), and they are all produce a great picture. The 8130 was stunning so if the 8150 produces a noticably better picture, then I can't see too many projectors competing with it -certainly not at this price range. I also own a 100" xscreen and am having a difficult time parting with it...but I really want a 2.35:1 setup so...

For what it's worth, I think Planar is a company that is truly commited to keeping their customers happy. I had to get replacement units from them over the past several months and they are extremely responsive and a pleasure to deal with. To me, the 2-year warranty and the 24/7 support is worth a lot. I only bring it up in the thread because we all like comparing specs and measurments, but you don't see too many people giving credit to a company that treats customers well. Keep up the good work Planar!
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post #360 of 532 Old 05-22-2008, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

Yeow, I hadn't realized that the pj actually arrived with the long throw and one had to buy the short throw in addition (had just assumed that it was more expensive to produce the short throw). This is rather ridiculous, if you'll pardon me being direct.

Ridiculous or not, this has been the standard for more than a decade. JVC, Sony, etc. are doing it this way (unless they've changed recently). Different throw lenses have always been purchased IN ADDITION TO the standard throw lense shipped with the unit. (The exception is the $30k+ projectors that often can be ordered with different lense options, but that is IMHO another story as these are hardly consumer projectors and are on the verge of falling into the made by order category...)

Peter
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