Do any projectors beat plasma picture quality? - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 171 Old 07-22-2008, 02:23 PM
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BIG is beautiful...
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post #92 of 171 Old 07-22-2008, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funkfuzz View Post

whether or not the 1080UB will have "near-as-good" PQ as the Kuro and much more size to boot?

Yes and yes.

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Will the size just overwhelm the difference in blacks and contrast between the Kuro and the UB?

Yes.

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[So, that's my delimna and I ask you, fellow reader: Go BIG or go PQ?

Go Big!
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post #93 of 171 Old 07-22-2008, 02:39 PM
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I think you'll be astounded at the picture quality you can get for the money with today's projectors. Go out and see a few, but make sure you see the projector in a decent set-up. Sometimes retail outlets like Magnolia Hifi will have projectors on display, but they will have them in rooms with white screens and ambient light pouring in, which tells you nothing about the kind of picture quality you can expect. Call around and you might have to drive a ways -- if you put out a query, maybe you can find a fellow AVS'er in your area who will invite you over and demo his projector for you.
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post #94 of 171 Old 07-22-2008, 02:47 PM
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Yep... go BIG! But remember you posted this question in a front projector thread, so... what did you expect to hear? You should ask in one of the plasma threads.
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post #95 of 171 Old 07-22-2008, 03:08 PM
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I think you'll be astounded at the picture quality you can get for the money with today's projectors.

I totally agree!!

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if you put out a query, maybe you can find a fellow AVS'er in your area who will invite you over and demo his projector for you.

Having been disappointed many times at " home theater stores ", this is the best way to demo gear if you can!

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post #96 of 171 Old 07-22-2008, 04:07 PM
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One more thing;

To the guy who was asking if a home theater projector could compete with IMAX.

I went to see The Dark Knight at the local IMAX and the picture was huge, but the blacks were milky and hazy. I don't know if they were using 70mm or DLP, but the picture was not that great.

At reasonable sizes, I will say again -- you can beat commercial movie theater picture quality with a home theater projector.
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post #97 of 171 Old 07-22-2008, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funkfuzz View Post

Hey, this thread is exactly what I needed to read, but still could use some more feedback.


So, that's my delimna and I ask you, fellow reader: Go BIG or go PQ?

I believe most here would agree, today's home theater FP technology sacrifices very little in PQ and still affords the BIG image unattainable anywhere else. In fact, a budget 720p properly set up with HDM will floor you.
You'll wrestle with light control and perhaps bulb issues, but, PQ won't be on your mind as you really get into the movie.
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post #98 of 171 Old 07-22-2008, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funkfuzz View Post

Go BIG or go PQ?

As a general plasma rule the bigger the screen the less bright it is. Bigger is not always better.
Why choose just one technology? I'd buy both (over time) as its great fun.
Though I would not put a TV in the bedroom as it interferes with ones health.
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post #99 of 171 Old 07-22-2008, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by CMRA View Post

I believe most here would agree, today's home theater FP technology sacrifices very little in PQ and still affords the BIG image unattainable anywhere else. In fact, a budget 720p properly set up with HDM will floor you.
You'll wrestle with light control and perhaps bulb issues, but, PQ won't be on your mind as you really get into the movie.

Not long ago my Brother In Law was telling me how happy he and his wife were watching movies on their new 40" (or so) Sharp LCD widescreen TV.
Then when he spotted a fairly mediocre business projector I'd borrowed, to test image sizes on my wall, he asked if he could see a movie projected on the wall. I complied, put on Transformers which he'd recently watched in his home and he was like "whoa...wow...this is really amazing. It seems this is the way to watch movies." When he left he was asking all about projectors and asking if I could advise him so he could get a decent one for his place.

It's hard to discount the sensation of seeing a huge movie image in a home.
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post #100 of 171 Old 07-22-2008, 07:15 PM
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This is beginning to sound like testimonials at a revival meeting! But I will certainly add my own. I had a 60" (Sammy) dlp rptv, then a 73" (Mits), and liked them both, but finally decided I wanted the 'really big screen'. After reading lots of threads here about pj's and screens for months, I got a RS1 and 126" HP screen about 1.5 yrs ago and could NEVER go back. I've gradually customized my room to make it more and more amenable to FP--with my wife's consent, since she really likes it too--and it's still fun to see friends and relatives eyes pop out when they first see it. And I still can't stop grinning when a high quality hdtv or BR pic is on it.

PS And the pic is definitely better--even apart from size--that that of the rptv's.
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post #101 of 171 Old 07-22-2008, 07:59 PM
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I would rather sacrifice a negligible (to my eyes) amount of contrast and "pop" for a screen size that could fit three or four 60" plasmas inside of it. I've been over to numerous houses that have really nice plasmas in them. For the size of rooms those people have, they look like little tvs to me. I still go home laughing as I turn on my projector (knowing full well I paid a significant sum less than those with the plasmas) and load one of my favourite movies on a 120" "screen" that I painted on the wall. Talk about wow factor.

So no, I don't think that most projectors will beat a good plasma in terms of picture quality. At the same time, I don't think you will find anyone that would rather watch a 60" plasma vs a 100+" projected image based on subtle differences in black levels, sharpness, etc. Unless, of course, they don't mind sitting two or three feet in front of the tv.

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post #102 of 171 Old 07-22-2008, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by reincarnate View Post

I cranked up the 1973 soundtrack ..... to commercial movie theater levels and enjoyed the glorious picture, sound and pretty island girls right in the front room. The wife talked on the phone in the kitchen.

Your credibility is totally shot. Nobody's wife is going to let them do this while they're on the phone.
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post #103 of 171 Old 07-22-2008, 08:45 PM
 
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Yes...Projectors rule!...
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post #104 of 171 Old 07-22-2008, 09:03 PM
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I'll never forget walking into the grand opening of an Ultimate Electronics with my parents for no other reason than having nothing better to do that day. I was looking at the sweet flat panels when mom walks out of this black room and tells me not to go in there. So I went in there, and there was Lord of the Rings playing on a Sharp Z10000 on a 133in screen right at the big epic shot of Gandalf on Sarumans tower. Having never heard of projectors, I left that room scheming to recreate that room lol. Plus I remember as a kid wanting badly to have a commercial cinema as my bedroom lol.

As far as I'm concerned, a big projection screen is the only way to truely experience a movie. I worked in Best Buy for a while(till booted for not selling Monster cable, and fixing fake demo displays), and the best TV was the 52in LCD Samsung with 120hz. I remember we were showing Spiderman 3 on it, so I memorized a few scenes, compared them on my RS1, and found the RS1 to be as sharp, if not a bit sharper at 147in! I'm not exadgerating, I was fully expecting the Samsung to produce a sharper image, but going back and forth several times revealed mine was as sharp from the seating position... Plus being fed a 1080p24 signal it looked more natural than the 120hz effect.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

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post #105 of 171 Old 07-23-2008, 04:08 AM
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Quote:


It's hard to discount the sensation of seeing a huge movie image in a home.

It's impossible, actually. Size is an intrinsic part of "quality" when you're trying to reproduce the movie-theater experience. Plasmas make great TV's, though.

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post #106 of 171 Old 07-23-2008, 05:11 AM
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On the contray, There are more people out there that prefer watching movies in light room on a plasma/LCD flat panel in their house. Concept of dedicated room/fp set up is too extreme for them.

It is all about quality...that is the picture

JVC & NEC 8" CRT with 106" wide Stewart screen. All NHT speakers driven by Pioneer Elite AVR and bluray

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post #107 of 171 Old 07-23-2008, 05:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaspianM View Post

On the contray, There are more people out there that prefer watching movies in light room on a plasma/LCD flat panel in their house. Concept of dedicated room/fp set up is too extreme for them.


That's no doubt true. Still, in my experience guests really do appreciate the increase in viewing quality that occurs when you watch an image under dark conditions.

I always turned the lights out to watch movies on my plasma because the image looked best that way and because it made that change from "watching TV mode" to "watching movies," replicating the mind-set of the cinema.

I even used masking for 2:35:1 film content.

My guests always liked the way films were viewed at my place and commented positively on the increased image quality as I experimented with masking, black backdrops etc.

I'd even turn the lights down for the final fights during a UFC gathering at my place. They appreciated the difference so much - the way the image floated in the air and the focus it gave - that they began to ask the lights go off arond the same time whenever we watched those events.

Given my proclivity for watching in the dark it was a natural move for me into front projection. But I find it interesting that guests enjoyed it as I did.
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post #108 of 171 Old 07-23-2008, 06:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaspianM View Post

On the contray, There are more people out there that prefer watching movies in light room on a plasma/LCD flat panel in their house.

And if it weren't for them dang black bars, it'd be perfect.

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post #109 of 171 Old 07-23-2008, 11:37 AM
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I guess my question is whether or not the 1080UB will have "near-as-good" PQ as the Kuro and much more size to boot? Will the size just overwhelm the difference in blacks and contrast between the Kuro and the UB?

If I go with option #2, I can apply the extra $800 or so that I save by not buying the Kuro and apply that cash towards an SVS sub and a nice center channel to compliment my other gear. Or maybe step up my AVR to one that can handle TrueHD too.

So last night I had 6 friends over. Two of them had never seen a movie in our theater. They kept looking over and smiling every time they could feel the bass shake the room during The Fifth Element ( which two over friends had never seen - unbelievable !! ). I have one of those SVS tube subs that looks like a four foot high mortar ( bought right here at AVS ) - they kick a#* for the money!! And The Fifth Element looks spectacular on Blu Ray. My point? GO BIG and get the BIG SUBWOOFER !!!

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post #110 of 171 Old 07-23-2008, 02:43 PM
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I have 2 HT systems. A dedicated HT w/a 1080p DLP proj and a 100" screen. I also have a HT in my bedroom w/a 720p DLP proj. and a 73" screen (max. that could fit).

Based on this thread, I am seriously considering getting the new Panasonic 65" TH-65PZ850 to replace the proj./screen in my bedroom. I would be trading a 15% loss in picture size to get 1080p and Plasma.

Any thoughts, comments, recommendations?
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post #111 of 171 Old 07-23-2008, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Whitehead View Post

I have 2 HT systems. A dedicated HT w/a 1080p DLP proj and a 100" screen. I also have a HT in my bedroom w/a 720p DLP proj. and a 73" screen (max. that could fit).

Based on this thread, I am seriously considering getting the new Panasonic 65" TH-65PZ850 to replace the proj./screen in my bedroom. I would be trading a 15% loss in picture size to get 1080p and Plasma.

Any thoughts, comments, recommendations?

65" for bed room!!? Cool. But make sure it is the right size.
I have one in my living (50" Elite), one in my kids room and one in my office/compute room (both 42" Toshiba LCD). It works fine. HT is in the basement.

It is all about quality...that is the picture

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post #112 of 171 Old 07-23-2008, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by smithfarmer View Post

Your credibility is totally shot. Nobody's wife is going to let them do this while they're on the phone.

Cell phones are designed to be superior in rejecting off-axis interference.
Papillon has some loud parts but it ain't no Transformers.

This thread is really humorous when pictures are posted overexposing the LCD image. One could easily make the projected image look like a wimpy dark shadow, but I don't take cheap-shots.

Instead, I recall the experts recommending to potential projector buyers to sit in the dark room first for 15 minutes to let there eyes adjust, because the 100 lumen $1-3K projector bulb was so darn dim. Truly the dark ages
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post #113 of 171 Old 07-25-2008, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by CaspianM View Post

On the contray, There are more people out there that prefer watching movies in light room on a plasma/LCD flat panel in their house. Concept of dedicated room/fp set up is too extreme for them.

Point taken. Their loss, not ours. A shame when you think about it.
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post #114 of 171 Old 07-25-2008, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by CMRA View Post

A shame when you think about it.

Having bigger ambition for others than they have for themselves has always been a character flaw of mine.

"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance  it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel Boorstin
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post #115 of 171 Old 07-25-2008, 03:06 PM
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Today I was looking at plasmas, LCDs and projection in a local big, high-end AV store. Unlike the typical blazing-bright big box store, they actually have the displays under good (dark) lighting conditions without direct light and often with some decent calibration. Because I've done lots of business with this store, and introduced lots of business, they are quite happy about letting me check out any new gear they get in.

Sitting in one cove was the 65" Panasonic plasma, several other smaller plasmas, and a spanking new Sony LCD (40 inchish) flat panel near the Panasonic. Boy did the liabilities of the LCD ever stand out compared to the plasma, once you don't have those blazing Best Buy lighting. Year after year I'm told that LCDs "now have great viewing angles." But nope....the Sony was very washed out compared to the plasma from almost any angle except close to straight on. Once in the sweet spot it's image looked rich, but outside...blah-city. I may as well have been viewing the cheapest old LCD the contrast and color were so compromised.

Anyway, more pertinent to the thread: I also viewed a bit of Blu Ray and some DVDs on the Mitsubishi 6000 LCD 1080p projector. First thing: Boy does light decor ever compromise the black levels and richness of a projected image. It looked great, but it was very obvious how much better the image would be if the nearby ceiling and walls weren't virtually white. With a black star field the black levels looked quite deep.
But as soon as a spaceship or anything brighter started to enter the scene I watched the black levels rise considerably and become utterly mediocre, due to reflections from the light walls/ceiling.

But aside from that: Wow what an image. Even DVDs on this screen (I'm guessing 94" or above) were super sharp, almost HD-like. There was just tons of subtle detail, shadow detail, color detail that I was seeing in this image, on my trusty test DVDs, that I've rarely seen before. It definitely showed things I've never noticed in those images on my plasma. And the image seemed as subjectively sharp as a flat panel too, which blew me away. (I know the Mits is known for a sharp image).

Man I can't wait to get my projector!
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post #116 of 171 Old 07-26-2008, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by tleavit View Post

Full 133" Screen.



LCD Zoomed up (only way to get good picture)


You just sold me on getting an FP. I own a Samsung 4071F (which I truly love, and as an owner of a 71, you can probably attest to it having great PQ even in a dark room), and seeing your pics just totally made my day. I was debating between a plasma or an FP, and seriously....you made the decision for me.

However, my budget is sub-$3000 (around there). I came on this forum, because I know how much cheaper things are online compared to MSRP's.
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post #117 of 171 Old 07-26-2008, 07:33 AM
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Having bigger ambition for others than they have for themselves has always been a character flaw of mine.

Well.. they don't know what they'er missing is what he says!
Both flat panesl and pjs have their own and use. None would replace the other in my view.

It is all about quality...that is the picture

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post #118 of 171 Old 07-26-2008, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by funkfuzz View Post

If I go with option #2, I can apply the extra $800 or so that I save by not buying the Kuro and apply that cash towards an SVS sub and a nice center channel to compliment my other gear.

A pj over Kuro and an Epik/elemental designs sub over svs!
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post #119 of 171 Old 07-27-2008, 07:57 AM
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Just another note on this general issue:

Not long after viewing Blu Ray and DVDs on the Mitsubishi 6000 projector I sat again in front of the giant 103" diag Panasonic plasma, which was playing the Blu Ray of planet earth. Two observations:

1. This is a repeat of what I've said before, but a plasma this size simply produces an image that no projector I've seen can produce. That is a consistent depth, solidity and realism to the image - that sense of real objects passing in front of you, or looking through a window at real life. The shots of mountains, which I've seen on plenty of projectors, was just jaw dropping on the plasma for you-are-thereness. Same with the realism and 3D effect of the elephant scenes. Like being at the zoo.

2. The image on this 103" plasma wasn't as sharp as one might expect. When people talk about flat panel advantages over projection one area concerns image clarity/sharpness, where the plasma at least ought to have an obvious advantage in using discrete pixels in a direct-view format. Whereas a projected image often has alignment issues and also must pass through various optic systems that will reduce, in various ways, the precision of the image.

But for whatever reason this plasma, while sharp, doesn't look as sharp as the best projectors I've seen. It's hard to say why. Processing perhaps? But it was receiving a 1080p signal, so that wouldn't seem to be much of a factor (in terms of deinterlacing, pixel mapping etc). What amazed me is that good quality DVDs on the Mits projector actually struck me as noticeably sharper than the Planet Earth Blu Ray on the big plasma! (excepting tiny background details that always suffer in SD). I've been quite amazed at the clarity of a good projector.

That said, the plasma made up for not having the ultimate in sharpness by it's amazingly convincing sense of realism in other areas, as described above.
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post #120 of 171 Old 07-27-2008, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

Even DVDs on this screen (I'm guessing 94" or above) were super sharp, almost HD-like. There was just tons of subtle detail, shadow detail, color detail that I was seeing in this image, on my trusty test DVDs, that I've rarely seen before. It definitely showed things I've never noticed in those images on my plasma. And the image seemed as subjectively sharp as a flat panel too, which blew me away. (I know the Mits is known for a sharp image).

Man I can't wait to get my projector!

Perhaps the DVDs looked particularly good because of the built in Reon processor on the Mitsubishi--a real advantage of this particular projector that seems to be often overlooked.

As always, Rich, your comments are interesting and insightful.
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