First Pics from the new JVC HD 350/JV HD 750 and specifications - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 3703 Old 08-31-2008, 08:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tds1 View Post

Agree - Now let's hope we don't hear - "Coming March 2009!"

It could change, but the video was pretty clear: October for the 350, November for the 750.

That was UK availability, but I would hope once the factory is spitting them out they'll ship them everywhere...

One thing to be careful of: it's possible that JVC hasn't set the price. They could be reading these forums to try to judge the excitement before setting the price. Every glowing positive "I've got to have one" comment here adds $100 to the eventual price, so please stop being excited. Find little nitpicky things to complain about instead.

I've got to have one! (ca-ching!)

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post #182 of 3703 Old 08-31-2008, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Ballentine View Post

RS20 may very well be the replacement for my RS1. I prefer to skip one generation when upgrading. Seems to make more of an impact. I'm very anxious to see the RS20 at CEDIA.

So John you're going to Cedia? I'm very interested in the RS20 as well, please let me know your thoughts after you see it.
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post #183 of 3703 Old 08-31-2008, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawguy View Post

By the way, the source for that information is a JVC employee.

Here is another tidbit, which hopefully is true!



Once again, the CR is measured at maximum output!!!

Wow! That would be most impressive. More lumens than an RS-1 and twice the contrast. Most LCOS implementations that I've seen benefit by about 20% or more in contrast as the iris aperture is reduced so if I tamed the lumens in my HT to a comfortable level it's not unreasonable to speculate that I might get close to 40,000:1 in my HT.

I think the RS-20 will shake loose a lot of RS-1 owners as far as inducing upgradeitis Damn you JVC!!!!
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post #184 of 3703 Old 08-31-2008, 09:39 AM
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Ok guys what would this mean if I were to buy the 750 for my 2,5m screen and project a picture from 3.6 meters in a total batcave environement?

I want to upgrade from my Sanyo Z2000 but I am somewhat hesitant to spent so much on the 750 (dunno what it will cost in Euroland) and I am wondering if the RS1 or the 350 would be a better choice.

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post #185 of 3703 Old 08-31-2008, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nima View Post

Ok guys what would this mean if I were to buy the 750 for my 2,5m screen and project a picture from 3.6 meters in a total batcave environement?

I want to upgrade from my Sanyo Z2000 but I am somewhat hesitant to spent so much on the 750 (dunno what it will cost in Euroland) and I am wondering if the RS1 or the 350 would be a better choice.

Regards
Nima

What's the gain of the screen?
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post #186 of 3703 Old 08-31-2008, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anbjornk View Post

I believe it's confirmed that the HD750 wil use HQV Reon.

I wonder if this move from Gennum will help reduce the graininess that were more pronounced with previous models. The poster of the HD750 impression noted, at least, that images were noise free.

I don't know which is better of the two in reducing noise without compromising detail. If I'm not mistaken, the HD XA2 player uses a Reon chip as well which I find exceptionally clean and noise free in HD movies. So, hopefully, the Reon scaler will be a bit more superior in that regard.
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post #187 of 3703 Old 08-31-2008, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shamus View Post

Ahhhh.
So its looking like this is a fully loaded CMS?

Lets see... Over the RS2, we got a better lens, some form of light control, brighter, quieter, better processing (???), 12v trigger, keystone correction and CMS.

We actually believed for a bit that it would be cheaper than the RS2!

It's interesting that the price for both the HD750 and RS20 haven't been fixed yet. My guess is that JVC is waiting to see what products and at what prices the other manufacturers will be moving to at Cedia. Volume is the critical factor in pricing so they need to make it a compelling buy over the other products that are out there. The RS20 price might even be influenced by the degree of pre-launch speculation that they are seeing in threads such as this one.

Oh okay, everyone all together now: (please repeat in unison) "The RS20 is a bad, bad bad projector! I won't buy it! No, I won't! Unless it's priced lower than the RS-1 was at launch and only if AVS'ers get a good deal like the RS-1!".
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post #188 of 3703 Old 08-31-2008, 09:49 AM
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Gain should be 1,1.

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post #189 of 3703 Old 08-31-2008, 09:51 AM
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And only if we Europeans can participate in a Power-Buy. Pleeeeease....

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post #190 of 3703 Old 08-31-2008, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nima View Post

Gain should be 1,1.

You're on the edge. So... more questions... is that 3.5 meters a diagonal measurement? Is this a 16:9 or 2.35 screen? With the RS1 I'd say it would be too dim. If the new pj's live up the their 800 lumen claim it might be doable, at least with a young lamp. But, no one really knows for sure at this point.
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post #191 of 3703 Old 08-31-2008, 10:35 AM
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Hi Erkq,

Screen is 2,5 meter wide, 16:9. Throwing distance is 3,6 meters.

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post #192 of 3703 Old 08-31-2008, 10:42 AM
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i think the 20 will be priced at about $8K. the same as the presnt 100. This would be consistent with the foreign prices reported here. Also the new Sony 70 is priced at $8k. So it would go head to head. if the foreign prices subtracting VAT are correct, it can't be priced much more expensive here of it will get grayed big time.

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post #193 of 3703 Old 08-31-2008, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Petersen View Post


Oh okay, everyone all together now: (please repeat in unison) "The RS20 is a bad, bad bad projector! I won't buy it! No, I won't! Unless it's priced lower than the RS-1 was at launch and only if AVS'ers get a good deal like the RS-1!".



I've got a question...
I've never fully understood the contrast ratio thing. If its the same contrast ratio as the RS2, but brighter, wouldn't your overall black level be higher than the RS2 also?
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post #194 of 3703 Old 08-31-2008, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nima View Post

Hi Erkq,

Screen is 2,5 meter wide, 16:9. Throwing distance is 3,6 meters.

I had done the meters -> feet conversion wrong. Looking at the roughly 8' wide screen you should be in great shape! 800 lumens/36 sq ft * 1.1 gain = 24.4 ft lamberts! Remember, that number is the absolutle highest possible with a new bulb, but it's still very respectable.
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post #195 of 3703 Old 08-31-2008, 10:57 AM
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Is there any mention of remote lens zoom, shift, and focus on the 350 and/or 750? I love that JVC made the cases smaller and quieter even though the side inputs looks a bit ugly compared to the RS1/RS2.
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post #196 of 3703 Old 08-31-2008, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shamus View Post



I've got a question...
I've never fully understood the contrast ratio thing. If its the same contrast ratio as the RS2, but brighter, wouldn't your overall black level be higher than the RS2 also?

Well, yes. For a given CR you can always get better blacks by dimming it down. It's all about compromise. It's just with a 30k cr @ 800 lumen you've got more possibilities for bigger lower gain screens. "Pick your poison."

As has been said before, the ultimate black level can always be had. Just leave the pj off!
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post #197 of 3703 Old 08-31-2008, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shamus View Post

I've got a question...
I've never fully understood the contrast ratio thing. If its the same contrast ratio as the RS2, but brighter, wouldn't your overall black level be higher than the RS2 also?

Expanding on what erkq said, even if the projector is brighter, you could use a darker screen to bring the white level down to the same level and the black level to the same level (assuming you can get that gain). Then your absolute blacks would be the same, but in mixed images the darker screen should retain CR better (help kill reflections and retain more of the ANSI CR of the projector), so provide better blacks in mixed images. I tried to explain this in the Why On/Off CR Matters More Than Absolute Black Level From a Projector section of my article about CR here:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...06-part-4.html

Also, in this case you could always close the iris down to bring the white level in line with the RS2 if you wanted to. And still have the ability to open it up for sports, lights on viewing, etc.

--Darin

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post #198 of 3703 Old 08-31-2008, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawguy View Post

By the way, the source for that information is a JVC employee.

Here is another tidbit, which hopefully is true!
...
Once again, the CR is measured at maximum output!!!

I think we should be careful about running too far with this as the employee doesn't sound 100% confident. I would believe it if Tom Stites says it is that way. Also, with the RS2 I thought it turned out that the maximum or rated CR was at the maximum throw and that meant not getting the rated lumens. I could look back at Greg Rogers review and see what he said, but that was my perception. I see that Tom mentioned they have a new lamp. That could be a good thing. The RS2s I measured were quite a bit dimmer than my RS1 and dimmer than the specs or what Greg Rogers measured from what I recall, but could have just been the individual lamps in those RS2s. Maybe the new lamps will be more consistent.

I'm also not sure if the chips are the same, but I recall reading that the LCOS chips were limited to around 40k:1 on/off CR. Even with a half closed down iris I wouldn't expect the projector to get to the chip CR and so there might not be much room above the 30k:1 without new LCOS chips.

--Darin

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post #199 of 3703 Old 08-31-2008, 12:26 PM
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Yeah I just read the original thread and it doesn't sound certain. It also doesn't say where the manual iris is mounted. I would hope that it's mounted at a location in the light path that provides the maximum contrast benefits but this isn't a given. I'm also not sure the WG light engine in the JVC has the same sort of scattering geometry as the Sony that allows it to benefit as much (20%) contrast-wise as the iris aperture is reduced. Should be interesting though...

Edit: Here is the info from the post on AVForums in case anyone is interested and who (like me) is too lazy to dig through the posts to find the link:

"Assuming the figures I got at the Planning Meeting a while back haven't changed, the range of adjustment will be between 50-100% of maximum power, i.e. the lowest aperture setting will be 50% of maximum power.

As far as I know, the CR is measured at maximum output."
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post #200 of 3703 Old 08-31-2008, 01:55 PM
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Thanks Erkq and Darin...
So basically on what we know, in a perfect room and assuming the RS2 is at the perfect light level for a situation, the RS20 wont bring anything new in black level to the table (I know it appears to have a lot of other advantages).
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post #201 of 3703 Old 08-31-2008, 02:00 PM
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the interesting thing that no-one seems to have mentioned (I haven't read the whole us thread though) is the cinemotion logo on the 750, i believe this to be effectively the same as the Sony motionflow algorithm (i.e. black frame insertion) if so this will be an awesome PJ.


Dustin
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post #202 of 3703 Old 08-31-2008, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shamus View Post

Thanks Erkq and Darin...
So basically on what we know, in a perfect room and assuming the RS2 is at the perfect light level for a situation, the RS20 wont bring anything new in black level to the table (I know it appears to have a lot of other advantages).

I'm not sure about that. Tom said it would have a new lamp, so maybe it will be brighter with open iris and allow closing the iris some for more CR than the RS2 at the same lumens. I'm not sure, just speculating about possibilities. If a person is at the short end of the throw with the RS2 maybe they could use a brighter screen (like the High Power) and close the iris with the RS20 for more on/off CR but close to the same ft-lamberts (at least to center viewing positions). It does tend to get a little complicated with the choices of pairing projectors with screens and projector placements (like whether the projector can be put in a good place for a retro-reflective screen like the High Power).

--Darin

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post #203 of 3703 Old 08-31-2008, 02:14 PM
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"As far as I know, the CR is measured at maximum output."

I wouldn't bet on that. The maximum light output will occur with the maximum iris aperture and at the minimum throw ratio of the zoom lens. (It's not a constant f-number, i.e. constant aperture, zoom lens.) That's just physics. The highest CR should occur with the minimum iris aperture and the maximum throw ratio of the zoom lens. It would be unlikely from a marketing perspective to only specify a CR that would be considerably below the highest CR that the projector will produce, and inconsistent with the previous RS1/RS2 series of projectors (or any other projector manufacturer).

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post #204 of 3703 Old 08-31-2008, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shamus View Post

Thanks Erkq and Darin...
So basically on what we know, in a perfect room and assuming the RS2 is at the perfect light level for a situation, the RS20 wont bring anything new in black level to the table (I know it appears to have a lot of other advantages).

It's hard to know at this point, but I think the manual iris may give some bl advantage. Don't pj's usually have better cr's with iris' clamped down? I seem to remember, though, someone saying on this pj it won't matter. So, it's all a guessing game.
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post #205 of 3703 Old 08-31-2008, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post

I'm not sure about that. Tom said it would have a new lamp, so maybe it will be brighter with open iris and allow closing the iris some for more CR than the RS2 at the same lumens. I'm not sure, just speculating about possibilities. If a person is at the short end of the throw with the RS2 maybe they could use a brighter screen (like the High Power) and close the iris with the RS20 for more on/off CR but close to the same ft-lamberts (at least to center viewing positions). It does tend to get a little complicated with the choices of pairing projectors with screens and projector placements (like whether the projector can be put in a good place for a retro-reflective screen like the High Power).

--Darin

Thanks
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post #206 of 3703 Old 08-31-2008, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregr View Post

I wouldn't bet on that. The maximum light output will occur with the maximum iris aperture and at the minimum throw ratio of the zoom lens. (It's not a constant f-number, i.e. constant aperture, zoom lens.) That's just physics. The highest CR should occur with the minimum iris aperture and the maximum throw ratio of the zoom lens. It would be unlikely from a marketing perspective to only specify a CR that would be considerably below the highest CR that the projector will produce, and inconsistent with the previous RS1/RS2 series of projectors (or any other projector manufacturer).

No review yet?
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post #207 of 3703 Old 08-31-2008, 02:38 PM
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Much of the the news are good but where are the lasers?
lamp to lamp lumen variation is not positive
lamp to lamp life time variation is not positive

Well , lamps HAVE to go out by the next generation or I will ....

Mattias Ohlson
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post #208 of 3703 Old 08-31-2008, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Petersen View Post

So John you're going to Cedia? I'm very interested in the RS20 as well, please let me know your thoughts after you see it.


Will do (wish you could be there too)
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post #209 of 3703 Old 08-31-2008, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anbjornk View Post

The HD750 is a really nice machine.

Compared to all other projector demos on IFA, the one from JVC was by far the best. The HD750 throws a really nice picture, and it seems like JVC finally has eliminated the bright corners. The optics has also been upgraded, and there were no signs of CA. Light uniformity also looked really good.
As for the colors, it's hard to say if they were "correct" or not, since the material shown was new to me (some new rugby movie). That said, I rally much enjoyed the picture, and I the colors looked nice to me.

Prices in Norway is said to be aproximately 35.000,- ($6450) for the HD350, and 50.000,- ($9200) for the HD750.

So far on the 4 or 5 RS2 projectors I have seen, no bright corners.

-- Well I have really blown my budget now. --
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post #210 of 3703 Old 08-31-2008, 05:20 PM
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Bright corners on my RS1 are truly a phenomenon to me. Sometimes I see them - other times I don't. 90% of the time I never notice them (even on long fade to blacks) - but I sure do on that other 10%. Sometimes they are repeatable - sometimes not. Don't know what to think about it. Glad the problem seems to have been completely corrected in the RS2 (and hopefully RS20)
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