Sony VPL-HW10 Owners AND Calibration Thread - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 780 Old 11-20-2008, 05:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bytehoven View Post

$$$

I was able to buy the HW10 from our host (AVS - Jason) for less cabbage. I attempted to get my local Best Buy to match the AVS price, but they would not.

There was nothing wrong with the Best Buy HW10 and I would have been happy to have kept it.

I purchased mine from Abt Electronics, near Chicago IL.

They readily matched the AVS price, and have a 30 day return policy without usage limitations or "restocking fees". I've spent a lot of money at this place over the years, and they are a class act. The store itself is huge, and carries an amazing assortment of stuff. If you live in the area, check it out (they have a $225,000 10,000 lumen Sony pj on display- it's quite a sight).
Also, be sure to get a free, freshly baked chocolate chip cookie in the kitchen section ;-)


FYI- I'm not affiliated with Abt in any way- just a very happy customer.
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post #182 of 780 Old 11-20-2008, 05:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arobot View Post

I purchased mine from Abt Electronics, near Chicago IL.

They readily matched the AVS price, and have a 30 day return policy without usage limitations or "restocking fees". I've spent a lot of money at this place over the years, and they are a class act. The store itself is huge, and carries an amazing assortment of stuff. If you live in the area, check it out (they have a $225,000 10,000 lumen Sony pj on display- it's quite a sight).
Also, be sure to get a free, freshly baked chocolate chip cookie in the kitchen section ;-)


FYI- I'm not affiliated with Abt in any way- just a very happy customer.

+1 for Abt - Love this store easy to work with great price matches - give them a call they will usually beat anyone's price

ALSO - FYI- I'm not affiliated with Abt in any way- just a very happy customer.
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post #183 of 780 Old 11-20-2008, 07:02 AM
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cc2..

When you measured the gamma did you use full screen pattern or the small window pattern? With Pana ax100 when measuring the gamma with window pattern iris on the results were weird. So try with the full screen patterns.
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post #184 of 780 Old 11-20-2008, 11:04 AM
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Yes it was the small window pattern. I remember reading that with iris, it was suggested to use the small window. I will try with the full window. Thanks
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post #185 of 780 Old 11-21-2008, 08:08 AM
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Bytehoven,

I don't know if you have these values written down anywhere, but if you have time could you provide your default and current values for the Color Modes within the W/B (GAIN & BIAS) portion of the Service Menu?

Have you done any adjustments to the Panel Driver settings in the Service Menu?

And "thanks" for your efforts in this thread!
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post #186 of 780 Old 11-21-2008, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bytehoven View Post


RCP 3 - with the following adjustments had a perfect CIE chart
red 16/23
Yellow 32/-4
green 48/-4
cyan 13/3
blue -5/27
magenta -7/-2

AFter the color tracking tweaks, I went back and the white balance was still solid.

If you're game, give these setting a try and see how they look.

I need to call CalMAN support with some questions tomorrow to figure how to do some additional stuff.

As I move forward, I will put together an XLS spread sheet with my calibrations for 6500/8000/9500k white balance & RCP settings. I will also include settings posted by others. It should make for a nice resource for other HW10 to experiment.

Were you able to get the CIE chart correct and maintain the accurate xyY numbers? I thought using Sony's RCP would give you the good looking chart, but bad Y numbers? At least that's what I recall from reading on the calibration forum. I played with this on my VW40 but it seemed I had to make a lot of drastic adjustments so I didn't go much further with it. Or maybe they've fixed it with the HW10?
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post #187 of 780 Old 11-21-2008, 08:43 PM
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Bytehoven,

I know you have an Oppo, have you tried to play any PAL dvd's yet? My old projector strangely only allowed it on the s-video so I never took it any further. As a test, I made a region free PAL disk and tried playing it through my Denon 2900 to the Sony HW10 through the component video connectors. From the Denon perspective it appeared to be playing and the audio came out but from the HW10 I just received a frequency error message and a flickering screen.

I also tried the same disk on a little portable player I have and it played fine. I'm just trying to figure out if it is a Denon issue or Sony issue. According to the manual the Sony supports a large number of signal types.

Update: I went back and tested it by outputting the video signal from the portable to the Sony via the composite and it played fine so it obviously is an issue with the Denon.
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post #188 of 780 Old 11-21-2008, 09:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Mu OPPO is toast. I'm using the Panny 55k now.

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post #189 of 780 Old 11-21-2008, 10:49 PM
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Hi all,

I'm on to my second HW-10.

Long story short, I purchased a demo one while the new one arrived.

I thought, great I can use the demo one to calibrate and get used to the controls.

Ok I picked up the new Friday, I only had time to re-mount it.

I fired it up today, shock - WTF.

I also punched in Btyes new settings.

1. The PS3 main - Menu suddenly looks a strange colour. It used to be Bluish. Now It looks Red.

2. I tested some BR, in the day, have some ambient light, WOW, looked better, brighter, just wow.

3. Testes the DVD - BR Basic disc, WTF is going on. It looked awesome during the day.

So I must assume the demo HW-10 I took home was some how faulty, or someone has played the service colours.

I only tweaked the settings as provided by the member here.

So, As soon as it is dark enough to-night, I will test some more.

But the PS3 is just weird. Why is it now red!!!!!

All the colour are their, they look very vivid, I am just afraid I have a Red problem. As red looks a bit over saturated. but the blues, green and all the rest look fine.

Is there any way of Checking???

What do you guys think??

What is the default PS3 colour supposed to be, Mine has always been blue/grey.

I also went through all the colours that you can change and they all look, right.

Gezza.
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post #190 of 780 Old 11-22-2008, 02:00 AM
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1 You can NOT copy settings from another user and expect them to work on your unit.

2 If you copy every setting should be the same
- gamma mode
- color temperature
- color space
and so on

3 If one source looks good it is probably not the projector that is the problem.

4 It is not difficult to f**k up the colors if you are randomly using the controls.

5 Check that cables are seated and that they are plugged in correctly.

Mattias Ohlson
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post #191 of 780 Old 11-22-2008, 02:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GezzaZ3 View Post

What do you guys think??

How about if you explain all of the adjustments you made as well as all of the primary Picture Settings, including WIDE or NORMAL color mode.

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post #192 of 780 Old 11-22-2008, 03:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Some new calibration settings. These were made using the GetGray SD-DVD in the Panasonic 55K and CalMAN with the i!Pro probe.

Contrast 88 (needed to keep green from running out at 100%)
Brightness 50
Color 50
Hue 50
Sharpness 0
Gamma 3
Auto Iris 1 = Recommend
Black Level OFF
Lamp HIGH
NORMAL color mode

.......Custom 3.....Custom 2.....Custom1
........6500K..........8000K.........9500K...

RG......(1).............(0)..............(-2)
GG.....(-1)............(-4).............(-2)
BG.....( 5).............(5)..............(8)
RB......(1).............(-2)............(-2)
GB.....(5)..............(4)..............(3)
BB....(-11)...........(-11)............(8)

EDIT: WB settings replaced with new calibrations done with the i1 Pro Probe. RCP calibrations deleted because after further review, they are useless.

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post #193 of 780 Old 11-22-2008, 04:01 AM
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Hello all,

Panic over.

I retested tonight, PS3 Crossbar Media Menu, back to the normal colour.

I do realise that someone else's tweaks, may or may not work for me.

But I changed the HW-10, so It should have been no change for me.

Byte, my man, those settings looks absolutely, Fantastic.

I just can not get over how, clear, Sharp, the details are brilliant.

I think the Demo HW-10 may have had some in-store tweaking, which made it look dull.

I will look into your new ones soon.!!!

I also get my Eye One Display early next week.

Once again, thanks for the tweaks, if your ever in Australia, I will buy you a beer.

Gezza.
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post #194 of 780 Old 11-22-2008, 09:43 AM
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Well...Unfortunately, the Sony doesn't fit my existing mount (Chief mount purchased for my Sharp 10K). Hard to tell if it was the Sharp using and unusual configuration or Sony.

The front two screws align but the back one is off by 3/4". Anyway, I will try to retrofit something because these mounts are two expensive to buy per projector, and the chief provides adjustments both vertically and horizontally.

Another thing I noticed is that the screws that fit the Sharp are a little too narrow for the Sony and I can't see anywhere in the manual where it provides the screw specification. I guess they just want you to purchase their mount.

Does anyone have the screw specification for mounting the projector to the ceiling?
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post #195 of 780 Old 11-22-2008, 10:27 AM
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Smith- Is it a universal Chief mount?

I just ordered one. Currently my 10 is hung using a cheap monoprice. It had the right screw size.
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post #196 of 780 Old 11-22-2008, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquafire View Post

Smith- Is it a universal Chief mount?

I just ordered one. Currently my 10 is hung using a cheap monoprice. It had the right screw size.

I thought it was but maybe it wasn't. I purchased it almost 5 years ago. Anyway, looking through scraps I found a piece of heavy duty metal used for mounting behind large pictures frames that had two screw holes in it. It just so happens that the distance between the holes matches the distance between the back screw of my mount and the location of the screw hole on the projector. I think I can use this yo rig it in a stable fashion. Once on I won't have to remove it since the bracked mounted to the projector slides on and off of the ceiling mount.

Now I just have to find out the size of the screws that will fit into the projector. Strange that they wouldn't put it in the manual specs.
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post #197 of 780 Old 11-22-2008, 04:38 PM
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Smith:
The screws for the Sony are M5 (metric). You may have a difficult time finding different lengths. If you can't find the correct length just have them shortened.
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post #198 of 780 Old 11-22-2008, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CORRY View Post

Smith:
The screws for the Sony are M5 (metric). You may have a difficult time finding different lengths. If you can't find the correct length just have them shortened.

Great thanks. I'll look for them tomorrow.
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post #199 of 780 Old 11-24-2008, 01:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GezzaZ3 View Post

Hello all,

Panic over.

I retested tonight, PS3 Crossbar Media Menu, back to the normal colour.

Maybe you already know this, but anyway: The PS3 default theme changes color based on time of day, that may explain the color change.
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post #200 of 780 Old 11-24-2008, 08:14 PM
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Hello,

Thanks torsteinvh, I did actually forget that.

Good news, well sort of.

My Eye 2 Display arrived today, so there is some excitement here.

I must say just how superb the PQ is, awesome.

Even SD Movies look good.

Really happy.

Now how to tweak this thing,

Gezza.
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post #201 of 780 Old 11-24-2008, 08:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Here are some links to read to help you begin your journey.

The last link is the AVS calibration forum. Read thru all of the stickies and you will get a good foundation of how to proceed.

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457
http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages_b/calibration.html
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=139

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post #202 of 780 Old 11-25-2008, 08:52 AM
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What type of video signal do I want to input into this projector, RGB or YCbCr or does it matter? I can select either in my AVR setup.

Thanks
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post #203 of 780 Old 11-25-2008, 09:19 AM
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Where do i find the gain and bias controls used to calibrate ? In the service menu I guess? I still can't get into the service menu:

I still can't get into the service menu on my hw10. I have tried doubleclicking the enter button (the small round button in the center of the arrow buttons) on the remote like a madman and still no go. The projector just says "not applicable". I have tried varying the tempo, i have tried with and without an input source. I have tried wtih the projector set to all the different inputs (although i actually only use hdmi1). If someone could give me a step by step instruction like i was a 5 year old I would appreciate it. :-)
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post #204 of 780 Old 11-25-2008, 10:12 AM
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Bytehoven.

I went in the servicemeny today
to try your calibration tip,and found that my "open reg" and "close reg"
value differ pretty much from yours.

Your settings:
Open reg 725
close reg 347

mine:
open reg 688
close reg 370

Should i just take the differense between the close reg nr
and just add it to your recomended 131 setting?

in that case 154 close reg for me?

I am pretty noob at this....

Thanx /mikael
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post #205 of 780 Old 11-25-2008, 10:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magnust View Post

Where do i find the gain and bias controls used to calibrate ? In the service menu I guess? I still can't get into the service menu:

I still can't get into the service menu on my hw10. I have tried doubleclicking the enter button (the small round button in the center of the arrow buttons) on the remote like a madman and still no go. The projector just says "not applicable". I have tried varying the tempo, i have tried with and without an input source. I have tried wtih the projector set to all the different inputs (although i actually only use hdmi1). If someone could give me a step by step instruction like i was a 5 year old I would appreciate it. :-)


With a blank screen enter enter left arrow enter it's that simple and you should see a window asking if you want to enter service mode, or normal mode once you are already in service mode.

The best place to make the RGB gain/bias adjustments is under the USER picture menu. If you click thru the picture settings until you get to color temp, go down to CUSTOM 1,2 3 or 4 and then click to the right. The RGB gain/bias settings will appear.

Custom 1 is already near 9500k and should be used to calibrate in that color temp range.

Custom 2 is near 7500K

Color temp is near 6500K

Color Temp 4, the brightest of the color temp settings, I have not adjusted yet. I plan to do so tonight. I was planning to dial this in at 10,000K, the max on my WB color temp scale.

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post #206 of 780 Old 11-25-2008, 10:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by micke77 View Post

Should i just take the differense between the close reg nr
and just add it to your recomended 131 setting?

You projector settings are more like my 2nd HW10.

Try CLOSE REG <200> OPEN REG <975>

The OPEN REG setting will tame the auto iris as far as it becoming more apparent. The value can go as high as <1023>.

I am hoping to begin measuring for gamma curve tracks with and without the auto iris adjustments and I will post some pics.

I should also note I was invited to explain why the HW10 needs the IMage Director 3 software as well as why the RCP color gamut controls are lacking. I am having that conversation now and I hope it leads to something for HW10 owners as well as other Sony SXRD projector owners.

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post #207 of 780 Old 11-25-2008, 10:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lorenmc View Post

What type of video signal do I want to input into this projector, RGB or YCbCr or does it matter? I can select either in my AVR setup.

Thanks

Technically RGB is the better of the two signal types, but either will do. We often refer to the 2nd signal type as Component YUV, which is more common on consumer & pro electronics than RGB.

You may have a setting for DARKER/LIGHTER on the output. Darker will remove 7.5IRE setup and is the preferred setting.

You should then use a CONTRAST/BRIGHTNESS test pattern to dial in your HW10 contrast/brightness. If your brightness control ends up being way above 50, you could try setting the AVR output to LIGHTER to see if the HW10 brightness adjustment comes back down near 50.

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post #208 of 780 Old 11-25-2008, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bytehoven View Post

You projector settings are more like my 2nd HW10.

Try CLOSE REG <200> OPEN REG <975>

The OPEN REG setting will tame the auto iris as far as it becoming more apparent. The value can go as high as <1023>.

I am hoping to begin measuring for gamma curve tracks with and without the auto iris adjustments and I will post some pics.

I should also note I was invited to explain why the HW10 needs the IMage Director 3 software as well as why the RCP color gamut controls are lacking. I am having that conversation now and I hope it leads to something for HW10 owners as well as other Sony SXRD projector owners.


Thx! I will try it and se if i like it

good luck with the conversation...
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post #209 of 780 Old 11-25-2008, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bytehoven View Post

Technically RGB is the better of the two signal types, but either will do. We often refer to the 2nd signal type as Component YUV, which is more common on consumer & pro electronics than RGB.

You may have a setting for DARKER/LIGHTER on the output. Darker will remove 7.5IRE setup and is the preferred setting.

You should then use a CONTRAST/BRIGHTNESS test pattern to dial in your HW10 contrast/brightness. If your brightness control ends up being way above 50, you could try setting the AVR output to LIGHTER to see if the HW10 brightness adjustment comes back down near 50.

So I assume the HW10 will automatically determine what kind of signal it is being fed and decode things properly since I haven't been able to find any menu setting where you specify what type of signal you are sending it?
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post #210 of 780 Old 11-25-2008, 01:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lorenmc View Post

So I assume the HW10 will automatically determine what kind of signal it is being fed and decode things properly since I haven't been able to find any menu setting where you specify what type of signal you are sending it?

Yes and no.

Unless you use an HDMI connection, the HW10 will not switch to adjust for a 16-235 or 0-255 luminance range. You would need to adjust the contrast & brightness accordingly.

However, in all other ways such as color space assumptions, the HW10 would be making choices based on the input and signal specs.

(Edited for a correction)

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