Sony VPL-HW10 Owners AND Calibration Thread - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 780 Old 10-22-2008, 09:30 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Bytehoven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 4,855
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 50





Congratulations to all the new HW10 owners. Welcome to the VPL-HW10 Calibration & Projector Functions thread.


As you begin to contribute your posts to this thread, may I offer some suggestions...

- Please limit posts to the asking/answering of calibration and projector function questions. This thread is likely to grow larger, so anything we do to keep posts on topic, will help this thread better serve HW10 owners looking for info.

- Please consider posting your final setting values on the any user or service menu controls you change, and if available, also post pics of your grayscale and color tracking pre/post calibration.

- Feel free to post or PM HW10 info links to me and I will add them to the link list below.

- "HW10" Screen shots are also welcome.




HW10 Information Links:

Sony VPL-HW10 Just Arrived Thread For HW10 discussion not related to projector functions & calibration.

Sony VPL-HW10 Review! NEW CORRECTED CONTRAST! by Jason

Sony VPL-HW10 Review 12/01/08 - Art Feierman

Sony VPL-HW10 Review AVForums Video Review

Sony VPL-HW10 Projector Central review Bill Livolsi, November 7, 2008

1080p Projector Shootout: Panasonic PT-AE3000 vs. Sony VPL-HW10 Bill Livolsi, November 12, 2008

Projector Central List of Highly Rated & Editor's Choice Projectors

AVForums - Sony VPL-HW10 SXRD Projector Review

Sony VPL-HW10 Owners Manual Page at eSony

CNET Review

Trusted Reviews

Digital Trends Review

Projector Central HW10 Specs

Gadget Speak Review

What HI-FI Review

More Expert Reviews - Links

Sony VPL-HW10 Just Arrived!

HW10 Thread

HW10 - NEW SXRD Projector

New Sony projector VPL-HW10

What would you chose for same Price - Panny AE3000 and Sony VPL-HW10?

Sony VPL-HW10 vs VW60

Sony VPL-HW10 vs Panasonic AE3000

Sony VPL-HW10 vs Panasonic AE3000 2

VW100 vs VW10 vs Epson 7500

HW10 or W60 Thread

Sony VPL-HW10 vs JVC RS10

HW10 vs. Mits HC5500 and HC5600

Sony VPL-HW10 Projector Comparison XLS file

Sony VPL-HW10 Press Release pdf

Sony VPL-HW10 Press Center Info

Sony VPL-HW10 Sony Style Product Info

Sony VPL-VW60 Tweakers Thread

Sony VPL-VW40 Tweakers Thread

AVS Contrast Thread - Now with Dynamic Contrast Results! by Mark Petersen A great technical calibration read.

How to properly calibrate using color bars



My review of the HW10

Let me begin with a few cons...

- No Gamma Curve adjustments via Sony's Image Director. Not something most folks would miss, but still a valuable tool for calibrating a perfect white balance and gamma 2.2 track. Sony should have offered some basic low/mid/high gamma adjustments on the HW10 if ID software was not going to be supported.

- Limited 2D CMS color correction with the Sony RCP tools. However, very few projectors offer true 3D CMS calibration, so it's a common color correction challenge. Sony should also make RCP settings part of the USER Picture profiles, so different RCP tweaks could be automatically selected for the main PICTURE settings, HIGH, MID, LOW, USER 1, USER 2 & USER 3.

- Price is a little high when compared to competition, although many will appreciate where the extra $$$ has gone as far as image quality. I anticipate prices will begin to decline in the new year, not especially welcome news for early adopters, but should be good for potential buyers in the new year.

Now the Pros...

- This HW10 is quiet, even in HIGH lamp mode, which I now prefer. In Low Lamp Mode, you might not know the HW10 is even on unless you move close to listen.

- The screen position controls are in the perfect spot for easy access, and while I think they could be beefier, they do the jobs just fine.

- Native, ANSI & ON/OFF contrast are excellent. We are reaching a point where most people would be happy with the contrast performance of the HW10. Certainly as manufactures continue to expand the panels' native contrast, the benefits will be appreciated. However, I could live with the HW10 performance without regret. I assume it will only be the viewing of more dynamic projectors in the future that will cause me to upgrade. But coming from my Sony HS51A, Infocus 7200 and NEC HT1000 experiences, the HW10 is simply awesome.

- Black levels are excellent in both the Auto Iris, Manual Iris and Iris OFF modes. Obviously many folks will go for the maximum ON/OFF contrast of the auto iris modes, but I recommend folks also explore when running Manual Iris and Iris OFF will be appropriate. For instance, put up a 100% gray pattern, and dial back the Manual Iris for good screen illumination, and let it ride. The native contrast of the SXRD panels is pretty impressive.

- Auto Iris, while not flawless, is very good. Auto 1 and Auto 2 provide different ranges of Iris function, and the FAST, SLOW & RECOMMEND settings expand user control over Auto Iris operation. I believe there are benefits to some service mode tweaks of the auto iris tracking, but only for very marginal benefit.

- Panel shading uniformity is excellent. I have now had close observation of two projectors, and while the HW10 I now have has perfect uniformity, the Best Buy bought HW10 was excellent. Most folks would never be able to see the difference, and those picky about uniformity would have happily accepted the Best Buy HW10 shading calibration. If all HW10s have the range of uniformity I have observed on these 2 HW10s, Sony is doing a great job at the factory.

- Convergence is another big area of concern as we can run larger screen sizes for our seating distances. Sony's sub-pixel convergence capability is awesome. My 2 HW10s required different degrees of convergence correction, with my AVS bought HW10 requiring more. But the correction was fast and easy and provides perfect edge to edge convergence. IMHO, all projectors at or above the HW10 price point should have onboard convergence controls to correct for RGB panel alignment errors.

- The HW10 has just enough panel sharpness for my eye, without being prone to SDE as I see on some LCDs. Some projectors try to mask the pixel structure to reduce SDE, but at the cost of relative sharpness. The HW10 seems to strike a very nice balance. I assume the quality of the HW10 lens is both a benefit to the level of perceived clarity, as well as a hinderance to any additional clarity available from the SXRD panels. However, I think it's a good balance of extreme possibilities in performance and extra cost for a better lens.

- Chromatic Aberration on the HW10 is excellent. This is a testament to the quality of the lens and an extension of the sharpness/clarity observation mentioned above.

- Uniformity of focus across the screen is excellent. Again a benefit of a good lens, that even while the image is being sent thru the very edge of the lens, the edge to edge focus is still excellent.

- White Balance tracking from the factory, while not perfect was very good. I found the Custom 1, 2 & 3 color temps required very modest tweaks for very flat 9500/8000/6500K WB tracks. Some improvements could be made if the Image Director software was available for GAMMA tracking adjustments, and while I am sad more perfect tracking can't be achieved, the current capability is acceptable. However, Sony would show great wisdom if the provided a HW10 software/firmware update to enable use of the ID 3 software.

- Dynamic Iris and video processing is nearly transparent on the HW10. I would note I needed just a slight WB track adjustment when switching from Iris OFF (initially used for calibration) to any of the other Iris modes, but the adjustment was a click at the top and the bottom . Very impressive considering my experience with the HS51A and what it's DI/video processing did to the WB track from top to bottom. As I note below, dropping the contrast to <88> enabled a flat WB right up to 100%.

- Contrast/Brightness/Color/Hue are spot on out of the box for a 16-236 video luminance range. Dropping Contrast from the factory default <90> to <88> is required to help flatten WB at 100%, but otherwise Sony should get high marks for the factory calibration of the HW10. Many folks will not see a need for custom calibration.

- Color reproduction is excellent. While CMS calibration is hindered, the HW10 is very good right out of the box. The WIDE color mode was pretty evenly spaced outside a HD Rec709 triangle, so dialing back the master COLOR to reduce saturation works very well with WIDE color mode. The Normal color mode was not as accurate, but acceptable. A happy balance can be achieved using the limited 2D CMS capability of the RCP controls. I was able to get a good HD Rec709 CIE track for all but RED, with the HW10 in the WIDE color mode. I dialed in RCP settings for 6500k and 9500K.

The HW10 is an excellent projector, especially for the price. While there are things Sony could do better, such is the case with any projector. However, Sony has paid attention to the basics which affect the raw performance of the projector, especially performance out of the box. For those owners who are inclined to tinker, Sony should consider a software/firmware update to enable Image Director 3 software. RCP should be linked to the main (6) PICTURE banks and the limited 2D CMS controls should be upgraded to a true 3D calibration control.

I am glad I upgraded and look forward to many happy hours of HT viewing on the HW10.



Calibration Suggestions


Here are my calibrations as of 11/26/08: Get Gray SD-DVD via Panasonic 55K HDMI, CalMAN & i1 Pro for calibration.

Contrast 89
Brightness 50
Color 50
Hue 50
Sharpness 0
Gamma 3
Auto Iris 1 = Recommend
Black Level OFF
Lamp HIGH
NORMAL color mode

.......Custom 3.....Custom 2.....Custom1
........6500K..........8000K.........9500K...

RG......(1).............(0)..............(-2)
GG.....(-1)............(-4).............(-2)
BG.....( 5).............(5)..............(8)
RB......(1).............(-2)............(-2)
GB.....(5)..............(4)..............(3)
BB....(-11)...........(-11)............(8)



Calibration numbers for tweaking Custom 4 color temp:

contrast = 90
brightness = 50

RG 6
GG -8
BG 4
RB -8
GB -4
BB -18

Here are some pics of color gamut and white balance tracks for the adjustments above. Again, Get Gray 75% RGBCMY on a HD REC709 triangle.



.....

VPL-HW10 2-1
Section 2
Electrical Adjustments

. Note that when the items (W/B, Device Adjust) that can
be adjusted in the Service mode are adjusted and stored
in memory, they are saved in NVM and the factory
default data will be lost.
Be sure to perform Save to memory after entering and
exiting the Gamma adjustment mode. If the values are
changed in the Gamma adjustment mode and you want
to reset to the original value, turn off the power of the
unit and turn it on again. The UF data does not change
even if the mode for Advanced Iris in Cinema Black Pro
in Picture Adjust is changed without performing Save
to memory. When Save to memory is performed at
that time, the UF data of each Iris mode will be overwritten
and lost.
2-1-3. Model Name Display (Shop
Demonstration) Mode Setting

1. If the menu is being displayed, press the [MENU]
button to close the menu.
2. Press the buttons within 5 seconds in the following
order:
Enter, Up, Down, Enter.
Even if the message Not applicable! is displayed,
ignore it. If the key operations failed, wait for at least 6
seconds since the last key is pressed, and perform the
key operations again.
3. Do you wish to display the model name? Yes No is
displayed.
4. Select Yes.
n
To exit the Model Name Display mode, perform step 2.
Do you wish to display the model name? Yes No is
displayed. Select No.
2-1. Preparations
2-1-1. Required Equipment

. Oscilloscope
Tektronix 2465 or equivalent
(bandwidth: 350 MHz or more)
. NTSC, PAL, SECAM component signal generator
Tektronix TG2000 +AVG1 (optional module) +AWVG1
(optional module) or equivalent
. VG (Programmable video signal generator)
VG849C or equivalent
. Digital voltmeter
Advantest TR6845 or equivalent
. Luminance meter
. Chrominance difference gauge
n
Perform the following adjustments at least 15 minutes after
turning on the power.
2-1-2. Service Mode Setting
1. Set the Status to On in the Setup MENU.
2. Close the menu by pressing Menu if its displayed.
3. Press the buttons in the following order in 5 seconds:
Enter, Enter, Left, Enter.
4. The message Do you wish to enter into the
SERVICE MODE? Yes No will be displayed.
5. Select Yes.
n
When leaving the SERVICE MODE, perform item 3.
Do you wish to return to the USER MODE? Yes No
will be displayed. Select Yes.

VPL-HW10 2-5
2-3. White Balance Adjustment on
Servicing
Preparation

Set Picture Mode to Cinema and make the following
settings.
Contrast: 90
Bright: 50
Color: 50
Hue: 50
Sharpness: 5
NR: OFF
MPEG NR: OFF
Black Level Adjust: OFF
Gamma Correction: Gamma 1
Advanced Iris: OFF
Lamp Control: High
Color space: Normal
Set each GAIN and each BIAS for RGB to 128.
Bring the ZOOM position of the lens to the center.
Adjustment
High

Set Color Temp to High.
Input 1080/60i 20 IRE flat field (RGB 3 color) into the
HDMI1 terminal and adjust BIAS of white balance for R
and B until the chromaticity (x20, y20) satisfies the
specification.
(x20, y20) = (0.284 }0.002, 0.298 }0.002)
Input 1080/60i 80 IRE flat field (RGB 3 color) into the
HDMI1 terminal and adjust GAIN of white balance for B
and G until the chromaticity (x80, y80) satisfies the
specification.
(x80, y80) = (0.284 }0.002, 0.298 }0.002)
Repeat the adjustments at 80 IRE and 20 IRE until the
specification is satisfied.
Save the adjusted values.
Middle
Set Color Temp to Middle.
Input 1080/60i 20 IRE flat field (RGB 3 color) into the
HDMI1 terminal and adjust BIAS of white balance for R
and B until the chromaticity (x20, y20) satisfies the
specification.
(x20, y20) = (0.294 }0.002, 0.314 }0.002)
Input 1080/60i 80 IRE flat field (RGB 3 color) into the
HDMI1 terminal and adjust GAIN of white balance for B
and G until the chromaticity (x80, y80) satisfies the
specification.
(x80, y80) = (0.294 }0.002, 0.314 }0.002)
Repeat the adjustments at 80 IRE and 20 IRE until the
specification is satisfied.
Save the adjusted values.
Low
Set Color Temp to Low.
Input 1080/60i 20 IRE flat field (RGB 3 color) into the
HDMI1 terminal and adjust BIAS of white balance for R
and B until the chromaticity (x20, y20) satisfies the
specification.
(x20, y20) = (0.313 }0.002, 0.329 }0.002)
Input 1080/60i 80 IRE flat field (RGB 3 color) into the
HDMI1 terminal and adjust GAIN of white balance for B
and G until the chromaticity (x80, y80) satisfies the
specification.
(x80, y80) = (0.313 }0.002, 0.329 }0.002)
Repeat the adjustments at 80 IRE and 20 IRE until the
specification is satisfied.
Save the adjusted values.

2-6 VPL-HW10
Custom
Set Gain and Bias for CUSTOM 1 to 4 to the following
values.
CUSTOM 1: Copy the Gain and Bias values for High.
CUSTOM 2: Copy the Gain and Bias values for Middle.
CUSTOM 3: Copy the Gain and Bias values for Low.
CUSTOM 4: Set the Gain and Bias values for R/G/B to
128.
Save the set values.
Iris: Auto1/Manual Adjustment
Switch the Iris mode to Auto1. Manual. Copy all of the
white balance adjustment values (High, Middle, Low, and
all of the Gain Bias values of CUSTOM1 through CUSTOM4)
at Iris OFF, to the corresponding Iris mode values
respectively.
Save the set value.
2-4. IRIS Adjustment
(1) Bring the ZOOM position of the lens to the center.
(2) Input the XGA 60Hz all white 100IRE signal in
INPUT-A.
(3) Set Other: 01 Iris/Adj of Device Menu to 1.
(4) Set the value of Other: 02 Iris/Open Reg to 1023,
and check the value of Other: 04 Iris/Open Hall.
(5) While decreasing the value of Other: 02 Iris/Open
Reg, check the value of Other: 04 Iris/Open Hall.
(6) When the value of Other: 04 Iris/Open Hall reaches
the value of [step (4) value _25], check the value of
Other: 02 Iris/Open Reg.
(7) Save the value of Other: 02 Iris/Open Reg of step (6)
in a memory.
(8) Measure the luminance level at this time. [OFF
Luminance]
(9) Set the value of Other: 03 Iris/Close Regequal to
that of Other: 02 Iris/Open Reg of step (6).
(10)While decreasing the value of Other: 03 Iris/Close
Reg, check the luminance level. Check the value of
Other: 03 Iris/Close Reg when the luminance level
reaches 32% of [OFF Luminance].
(11)Save the values of Other: 03 Iris/Close Reg of step
(10) in a memory.
(12)Return the value of Other: 01 Iris/Adj to 0, and
perform Save to Memory.
2-5. Panel Driver Gain B Adjustment
(1) Input the XGA 60Hz Blue Only 100 IRE signal in the
INPUT-A terminal.
(2) Set the Panel Driver: 03 P. Drv/Gain B value to 85.
(3) While measuring luminance at the center of the screen,
decrease the 03 P. Drv/Gain B value. Take note of the
03 P. Drv/Gain B value when luminance reaches
maximum.
(4) Save the 03 P. Drv/Gain B value of step (3) in a
memory.
(5) Perform Save to Memory.

XBL GT:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
 

PSN ID: Bytehoven

Battle Log:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
 

Bytehoven is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 780 Old 10-22-2008, 09:41 AM
Member
 
leo9000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 23
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks for setting up the new thread. I'm curious what other new HW10 owners have done to tweak their projectors. I think it looks pretty good right out of the box. I've been watching everything in Cinema mode. I haven't changed any of the settings yet.
leo9000 is offline  
post #3 of 780 Old 10-22-2008, 09:57 AM
Member
 
arobot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Chicago
Posts: 148
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I'm curious-

For anyone who has seen both, how does the picture quality of the HW10 compare with the VW60? Does the HW10 in any way improve upon the VW60 in terms of brightness, contrast, sharpness?

Thanks
arobot is offline  
post #4 of 780 Old 10-22-2008, 11:36 AM
Member
 
Mr.Pyro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 16
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Seems to be Friday when my HW10 should finally get to me, but it's gonna be 65K calibrated by the retailer so I should have rather precise settings to post
EDIT: Sadly i have no one close by, so the retailer will calibrate on a 1.x screen, as i will also use a 1.0 Gain screen. I wish i would be able to include my viewing environment...
Mr.Pyro is offline  
post #5 of 780 Old 10-22-2008, 11:39 AM
Member
 
RichKirby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: South Georgia
Posts: 30
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Pyro View Post

Seems to be Friday when my HW10 should finally get to me, but it's gonna be 65K calibrated by the retailer so I should have rather precise settings to post

Hmmm. Mine should be here about the same date and also calibrated by the retailer. I wonder where you ordered yours from....
RichKirby is offline  
post #6 of 780 Old 10-22-2008, 11:58 AM
Member
 
Mr.Pyro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 16
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I live in Germany so something is telling me not from the same retailer
Mr.Pyro is offline  
post #7 of 780 Old 10-22-2008, 01:54 PM
Member
 
timpan74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Sweden
Posts: 66
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Pyro View Post

Seems to be Friday when my HW10 should finally get to me, but it's gonna be 65K calibrated by the retailer so I should have rather precise settings to post

Hi,

I need to ask you what you mean with "65K calibrated by the retailer".
In your enviroment or in his? With the same source or your actual source?
With your screen material, screen size etc.

Or do you mean the reseller is getting to your place and make a professional calibration?

//Tim
timpan74 is offline  
post #8 of 780 Old 10-22-2008, 03:24 PM
Member
 
RichKirby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: South Georgia
Posts: 30
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Pyro View Post

I live in Germany so something is telling me not from the same retailer

Ah. Very well then, carry on. Enjoy.
RichKirby is offline  
post #9 of 780 Old 10-22-2008, 03:43 PM
Member
 
PierreP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Posts: 76
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
At the request of Bytehoven here is an updated version of my calibration posts:

Updated readings with Auto Iris set to OFF

I fired it up at work to see how the calibration looks and at the LOW temperature setting; it is pretty close to 6500K. It was at about 6500K for the whites and 7000K for 20% grey on my unit.

I tried to calibrate it using custom 1 and it was very difficult to get it to 6500K, when I finally realize that Custom 1 and 4 have the High color temp as a starting point, Custom 2 starts from Medium and Custom 3 starts from LOW.

So in order to calibrate it to 6500K easily, you have use Custom 3.

Since all projector might not be exactly the same, you have to take this with a grain of salt, but here are my settings for a Mustang screen:

____Gain____Bias
R___-9_____ 6
G___-7_____-7
B___ 0_____ -4 (increasing the blue Gain had no effect !)

For a Carada screen:

____Gain____Bias
R___-7_____ 12 (increasing the Bias requires to lower the Gain to track 6500)
G___ 3_____-3
B___ 0_____ -4

As this must vary depending on your setup and projector using the default LOW color temperature is not bad

As far as the light output is concerned, in my setup from a distance of 12 feet on a 106 diag screen, I am getting those results with the Auto Iris set to OFF in 6500K calibrated Cinema mode:

On a Carada of 1.0 gain in high lamp mode : 558 lumens (16.7 F.L.), Low lamp : 381 lumens (11.4F.L.).

On a Carada of 1.4 gain in high lamp mode : 638 lumens (19.1 F.L.), Low lamp : 438 lumens (13.1 F.L.).


As you can see, the Carada BW is giving an increase of 15% over the regular white (and not 40% as the specification is suggesting)

Last week-end I installed my projector home and since I do not yet own a screen, I had to project on a light sand colored wall, but nevertheless here are my impressions:

The picture is very sharp, but I needed to adjust the panel alignment to get the best results, on a moiré pattern, it was just a mess until I adjusted the panels. You have to be careful with this adjustment because it is the first thing I did when I turned on the projector and when I checked the moiré pattern about an hour later, it needed to be adjusted again. I guess a brand new projector might need to settle in and be warm before the adjustment is done.

There were lots of shadow details (the palm roof of the Casino at night in the last James Bond) and all of the tuxedos in Casino Royale looked great.

As far as calibration goes, I think that the default settings of the cinema mode is quite good, I would not recommend anybody to fool around with them unless you have access to a professional calibration probe, maybe a cheap probe is O.K. to get you in the ballpark if you are far, but from the readings that I got with a Minolta probe, the preset of the Cinema mode is really good.

The setting of 90 for the contrast is perfect when playing back a Blu-ray, but if you increase it over 90, then it starts to clip, at 97 I was clipped by about 5% on a test pattern, so be careful with this adjustment!

My recommendation for this projector would be to: adjust zoom, focus and panel alignment, then select Cinema mode and you are all set!

Pierre
PierreP is offline  
post #10 of 780 Old 10-22-2008, 04:08 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Jason Turk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Rochester, NY USA
Posts: 12,452
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Note. EVERY projector is different. I have done no less than 15 HW10's so far, and not 1 is the same in regards to grayscale and colors. So what works for one may not for another.
Jason Turk is offline  
post #11 of 780 Old 10-22-2008, 04:57 PM
Member
 
gbickle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 194
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 20
One thing it might be good to mention is when connecting the HW-10 to a Computer that outputs at 0-255 levels (A Standalone player will output at 16-235.. and this is what the projectors contrast and brightness is set for from factory)

So if you connect to an HTPC the brightness will probably need to be over 60 and the contrast below 80 in order get good greyscale.

Some people will have their htpc outputting at 16-235.. but the majority will have 0-255 (This also means that you wont see above white or below black in a test pattern as the htpc outputs black at 0 and white at 255)

I see one of the links at the top of this thread is a .xls file and it looks like they calibrated the hw10 at 75 for contrast and 68 for brightness (0-255 levels)

It also seems they got a slightly higher contrast ratio with the HW10 than with the VW60 (both native and iris enabled), which confirms my view as i think the HW10 has a slightly better and sharper picture.

Using other peoples settings can vary a lot though, as Jason says each unit has different greyscale and colours from factory, and then there is the source equipment, screen type, placement, and room to take into consideration. This will be a fun thread though :=)
gbickle is offline  
post #12 of 780 Old 10-22-2008, 08:46 PM
Senior Member
 
wohlstad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: MD
Posts: 321
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Turk View Post

Note. EVERY projector is different. I have done no less than 15 HW10's so far, and not 1 is the same in regards to grayscale and colors. So what works for one may not for another.

Jason,

What's the lowest lumens you have seen from HW10 to date?

I am interested in this PJ, but several people are reporting in the low 400s as compared to the expected 600s.

Thks
wohlstad is offline  
post #13 of 780 Old 10-22-2008, 08:52 PM
Member
 
gbickle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 194
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by wohlstad View Post

Jason,

What's the lowest lumens you have seen from HW10 to date?

I am interested in this PJ, but several people are reporting in the low 400s as compared to the expected 600s.

Thks

I got the impression that 400 lumens is in low lamp mode, and it gets 600 with high lamp mode.
gbickle is offline  
post #14 of 780 Old 10-23-2008, 06:50 AM
Member
 
b1pkkf26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 38
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hi Folks

I just setup my projector last night (first time setting one up) I have a problem and not sure if its my projector or something I messed up.

The pic does not come out right, left side is higher then the right so I have a slop of about 3 inchs :-(

I tried adjusting the setting but still no go, anyone have idea why? and solutions.

Many Thanks.
b1pkkf26 is offline  
post #15 of 780 Old 10-23-2008, 07:58 AM
AVS Special Member
 
pottscb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,294
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Liked: 37
I'm not familiar with this particular CNET reviewer but I think its apparent that he didn't have the Sony projector in front of him when he did the "review," he states:

"As Sony's SXRD technology is LCD based you can expect that the DarkChip will exhibit inkier blacks in comparison and also lack the "screendoor" effect that typically affects LCD technologies"

I hate it when people comment on new technology and use outdated assumptions, I'm no Sony fanboy but in my opinion nothing could be further from the truth.
pottscb is offline  
post #16 of 780 Old 10-23-2008, 08:52 AM
Senior Member
 
wohlstad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: MD
Posts: 321
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by gbickle View Post

I got the impression that 400 lumens is in low lamp mode, and it gets 600 with high lamp mode.

No, the low 400s obtained in Hi mode (see posts above), thus the concern
wohlstad is offline  
post #17 of 780 Old 10-23-2008, 11:06 AM
Member
 
kjcincy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 18
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by b1pkkf26 View Post

Hi Folks

I just setup my projector last night (first time setting one up) I have a problem and not sure if its my projector or something I messed up.

The pic does not come out right, left side is higher then the right so I have a slop of about 3 inchs :-(

I tried adjusting the setting but still no go, anyone have idea why? and solutions.

Many Thanks.

The projector, the floor, the object the projector is placed on, the screen, etc. may not be parallel with one another. Have you tried adjusting the left or right foot at the bottom of the projector to straighten out the picture? See the bottom of page 25 in the operating manual - "To adjust the tilt of the installation surface".
kjcincy is offline  
post #18 of 780 Old 10-23-2008, 11:36 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Bytehoven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 4,855
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by wohlstad View Post

No, the low 400s obtained in Hi mode (see posts above), thus the concern

Specs I have seen say 400/economy mode and 620/hi mode, both at D65.

VW60 was 430/640 respectively.
VW40 was 390/590
VW200 was ?/630


Check out this excel file for the stats and some comparisons to other projectors.

http://www.homecinema-fr.com/Colorim...rojecteurs.xls

If the HW10 proves to be nearly twice as bright as my HS51A in both economy and HIGH modes, that seems like good enough illumination for good screen sizes, unless there will be lots of ambient light.

XBL GT:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
 

PSN ID: Bytehoven

Battle Log:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
 

Bytehoven is offline  
post #19 of 780 Old 10-23-2008, 11:42 AM
Member
 
b1pkkf26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 38
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
thanks for the input, my projector is ceiling mount, I tried tiling it to the other side but same thing. The pic just comes out one side shorter then the other. Any one else have a idea. Will a isf calibration fix this problem?

Thanks again!
b1pkkf26 is offline  
post #20 of 780 Old 10-23-2008, 11:47 AM
Advanced Member
 
lcubed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: metro dc
Posts: 943
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
make sure the projector is 1) level and
2) lense face is parallel to the screen.

this all assumes that digital keystoning is turned off.

once that's done, adjust vertical and horizontal offset
using the knobs on the projector.
lcubed is offline  
post #21 of 780 Old 10-23-2008, 01:11 PM
Senior Member
 
wohlstad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: MD
Posts: 321
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bytehoven View Post

Specs I have seen say 400/economy mode and 620/hi mode, both at D65.

VW60 was 430/640 respectively.
VW40 was 390/590
VW200 was ?/630


Check out this excel file for the stats and some comparisons to other projectors.

http://www.homecinema-fr.com/Colorim...rojecteurs.xls

If the HW10 proves to be nearly twice as bright as my HS51A in both economy and HIGH modes, that seems like good enough illumination for good screen sizes, unless there will be lots of ambient light.

Well, there are manufacturer's specs , there are reviewer's units, and then there is real world.
wohlstad is offline  
post #22 of 780 Old 10-23-2008, 04:09 PM
AVS Special Member
 
HoustonHoyaFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 3,964
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by wohlstad View Post

No, the low 400s obtained in Hi mode (see posts above), thus the concern

Where exactly are those posts?
HoustonHoyaFan is offline  
post #23 of 780 Old 10-25-2008, 09:54 PM
Advanced Member
 
lcubed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: metro dc
Posts: 943
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
my hw10 arrived yesterday morning from jason, but i didn't catch up to
it til 1:30 am this morning. decided to open the box and just kept going.

since the hw10 was bought as a replacement for my very old 10ht, it was
a real simple install. the 10ht has a lense offset from centre, but otherwise
all the mounting hardware is exactly the same. it was a matter of loosing 6
thumb bolts on the chief mount in order to drop the projector
from the ceiling. then removing the 3 metric screws between
the rpa020 adapter and the old 10ht. reversing the process and hanging the
hw10 completed the whole process in under 10 minutes.

should be a piece of cake to replace a bulb if the chief mount is used.

the vertical and horizontal lense offset knobs are a great feature.

once i figured out that the left side of the screen was tall due to the lense
not being square and parallel to the screen, it was a quick nudge to rotate
the projector to the proper direction. a quick check w/ a digital level
showed the projector less than 1 degree from level both fore-aft and athwartships.

fired up the projector and flipped the image, then went into the menu to put
the pattern up. unlike my old 10ht, the pattern goes to all the edges of the
image area. a couple of tweaks to the vertical and horizontal lense shift knobs
and the picture was perfectly set within my 92" 16:9 screen w/ no overscan.

tested it briefly (til 2:15 am) using a FIOS 1080i dvr over the component input.
picture was significantly brighter than my 10ht (which was running a fairly new bulb),
but surprisingly, there's a significant amount of light spill all around the edges.

(there's no significant light spill from my old 10ht)

got up this morning and played w/ it for a half hour.
this time i hooked up the hd-dvd player via 25 ft monoprice hdmi cable.
it was a temporary setup since i hadn't fished this cable through
the walls yet and wanted to make sure it was working properly.

ran it to hdmi1 (both hdmi-1 and hdmi-2 were tweaked to D65 prior to shipping).
tested both serenity, space cowboys, and scooby do.

the hw10 definitely beats my old 10ht for sharpness and contrast. and for scooby do
definitely looked three dimensional w/ eye popping color.

got back tonight and fished the hdmi cable thru the walls and ceiling.

watched bits and pieces of several movies and documentaries including planet earth,
discovery atlas australia, van helsing, etc. being able to have no overscan is a great
feature (since the 10ht overscanned pretty much everything. my dvd player was
set to underscan in order to preserve the intended image). van helsing, in particular,
was a huge improvement since the 10ht didn't really have enough contrast
to show much black detail.

the images have much more detail and overall better picture quality. looks to be quite
feasible to move my seating forward from its current position of 1.5X screen width.

definitely an easy and worthwhile upgrade from the older, lesser sony projectors.
very nearly a direct drop-in replacement (and w/ the easy to use vertical and
horizontal offset controls), so much more tolerant of placement errors.

this projector is much quieter than the 10ht in cinema black mode. even w/ the
projector less than two feet from my head, can't hear it during quiet passages.

the only con is the light spill which falls outside my screen. (i'm running a 92"
firehawk on an older style fixed narrow bezel frame and the light spill is very
visible on the white wall on which the screen is mounted)

looks like my only other task is to update the harmony
so that the correct inputs are associated w/ the correct activities.
(and contemplate a bigger screen)
lcubed is offline  
post #24 of 780 Old 10-26-2008, 10:44 AM
AVS Special Member
 
nilsp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Oslo, Norway
Posts: 1,225
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
You slept? Thanks for the review and congrats!

NilsP

Life is better in HD.
nilsp is offline  
post #25 of 780 Old 10-26-2008, 02:54 PM
Advanced Member
 
lcubed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: metro dc
Posts: 943
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
just a tip if you're using a harmony remote to control the vpl-hw10.

after playing w/ a couple of options, i finally settled on lying to the
harmony and telling it the hw10 was really a vw100.

this gives access to the discrete inputs of component, hdmi and dvi (
as well as InputA, S-Video and Video).

dvi maps to hdmi-2 and InputA maps to VGA.

the default harmony hw10 setup doesn't have quite the
right codes for the discrete inputs.
lcubed is offline  
post #26 of 780 Old 10-26-2008, 08:36 PM
Member
 
lorenmc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 56
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by lcubed View Post

then went into the menu to put the pattern up.

I just received my HW10 too but I'm still waiting for my screen before I set it up. Would you mind clarifying what the "pattern" is that you refer to? Is there a special pattern the projector outputs to assist in the setup?

__
lorenmc is offline  
post #27 of 780 Old 10-27-2008, 03:55 AM
Advanced Member
 
lcubed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: metro dc
Posts: 943
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by lorenmc View Post

I just received my HW10 too but I'm still waiting for my screen before I set it up. Would you mind clarifying what the "pattern" is that you refer to? Is there a special pattern the projector outputs to assist in the setup?

__

i don't have the manual handy and i'm not by the projector,
but from memory

in the menu, under the tools (looks like a wrench)
select panel, then panel adjust

this should bring up a white cross hatch pattern
the panel adjust lets you bring the registration of the three panels in alignment. just hit 'menu' to exit without adjusting.

if it's already in good alignment, you can use the cross hatch pattern
for focus and to align the image to your screen.

since the pattern goes away after a few seconds, i trained someone
else to put the pattern back up while i was fiddling w/ the projector
focus and orientation.
lcubed is offline  
post #28 of 780 Old 10-27-2008, 10:00 AM
Member
 
interfx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 86
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I received mine last Friday.

This is my first HD projector, and was amazed how simple it was to install on my existing Chief mount. I also went to the panel align setup menu, and mine was very, very close right out of the box. Was simple to adjust, and the H/V controls ont he outside ofthe projector made it veyr easy for gross adjustments, and used the menu options for fine adjustment. I haven't purchased my screen yet -and was actually surpirsed how well it looked on a std. painted wall.

BTW - Matt at AVS really took care of my order, and after a few hicups got it to me on Friday. (I was surprised by their pricing)
interfx is offline  
post #29 of 780 Old 10-27-2008, 05:32 PM
Member
 
pepsi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: CA
Posts: 29
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 11
For those of you that have a calibrated unit, what Gamma setting are you using?
pepsi is offline  
post #30 of 780 Old 10-28-2008, 07:42 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Bytehoven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 4,855
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Initial report on my HW10 viewing tonight.

- My Screens: My HT front area is all black with medium dark taupe for sides walls and ceiling, almost a bat cave. I have a pulldown Da-Lite HP 92" 16x9 diagonal. Behind the pull down screen, I have a slightly smaller ultra white painted screen. I tend to use the HP for personal viewing and the painted wall screen when I have a full house, because illumination is better at extreme angles with the painted wall. There is a very slight color shift between the two, but I usually calibrate for the HP.

Some comparisons to my Sony HS51A 720p projector: Right off the bat I noticed a couple of things.

- Resolution of HW10 1080p is awesome. I view the 51A on the 92" 16x9 screen from about 12', and screen door is visible starting at around 11'. The HW10 pixel structure is not visible until within 6', leaving me alot of room to start moving my seat closer during private viewing. I might also note I was checking out a RS1 and 1080UB at a local theater shop today. The appearance of screen door was just a little more pronounced on the Espon, and the pixel structure was hard to make out on the RS1. I thought the RS1 looked like it might employee a little pixel hiding trickery and tended to make for a slightly soft image compared to the 1080UB. The HW10 pixel structure seems a happy balance.

- Contrast: The HW10 is obviously darker in dark scenes and brighter in bright scenes than my HS51A. The HW10 is way darker when the iris is dialed closed in manual mode from (50) to (0). This suggests some tweaking of the service menu AUTO Iris controls might expand performance during dark scenes. The controls are there under the OTHER menu of the service menu. In addition, the HW10 intra-scene ANSI contrast is better than the HS51A, and the AE3000 is likely to be even better. IMHO, this the remaining area SXRD could use some improvement, and the reason I thought I should check out the AE3000 and maybe even the RS10. Could I live with the HW10 contrast performance? Absolutely. Especially if some AUTO IRIS tweaks might further darken up the low APL scenes. I should check out those OPEN/CLOSE REG & OPEN/CLOSE HALL controls right now.

- Grayscale/White Balance out of the box: While I have not taken any measurements yet, but to my eye the grayscale tracking of the SD-DVD AVIA Pro 5 IRE cross horizontal step pattern was excellent for all the color temps and IRIS settings. Quite a dramatic improvement from my pretty well calibrated HS51A, especially when the HS51A is in AUTO IRIS mode. I think I could leave the HW10 factory grayscale settings "as is". Also, I saw no evidence of video processing induced white balance errors with the HW10 under AUTO IRIS. WHEW! Some of the early IronMan cave scenes are a good test for such white balance errors. Sin City is another good test.

- Grayscale/Gamma Shading Uniformity: I put up the HW10 service menu GAMMA screens and all but the brightest (11) looked perfectly balanced to my eye. The brightest (11) screen had a very, very slight shift to blue on the right 1/3 of the screen while the left 2/3s of the screen were balanced. But again it was very slight and something you might not even notice unless you were looking for it, which I was. . I could live with it, but I thought it worth mentioning.

4) Gamma: Like the RS1 I saw today, the HW10 needs just a little custom GAMMA work to maintain best black levels without suppressing shadow detail. I have yet to extensively play with GAMMA. However, the HW10 PICTURE/GAMMA controls might be my 1st area of complaint. I'm not keen on the way Sony arranged the controls for GAMMA 1, 2, 3 & OFF as well as how gamma is adjusted by each step. I like it better when the GAMMA increases in steps from the OFF position. The GAMMA settings are not logical as they seem to be 1=(+1) 2=(+2) 3=(-1) OFF=(0). The way the control settings progress, you don't get to see the gradual application of gamma curve changes. Me no likey. 3, OFF, 1 & 2 would have been a better set up.

- Motion Blur Testing for 24p/60p: I was testing 1080p24 & 1080p60 tonight on the HW10 using the IronMan scene where the camera pulls back from the Stark's cliff house. It's the scene soon after the reporter/sleep over wakes up. In this case, 1080p60 was smoothest and cleanest. The 1080p24 showed just a bit of vertical judder on horizontal lines as the camera pulled back. I need a better test sample to really figure it out 24p for the HW10, 55k and DVDO Edge. Please recommend a good sample for testing motion blur.

- Screen Positioning Controls: This is an area where I don't know what Sony was thinking. I use a high shelf for placing the projector in an up right orientation. Unfortunately, the HW10 screen movement range is compromised when the projector is right side up and high on a shelf. While there was room to raise/lower the screen, room to move the screen side to side was compromised. The projector is designed to be inverted to get full range of the positioning controls. I ended up needing to skew the projector direction to properly adjust for side to side screen position. A fix would be to rig a way to mount the HW10 inverted on my rear shelf area. I might note my HS51A does not have this problem, but it also doesn't a big chunk of glass hanging on the front.

- Sound: The HW10 in high lamp mode is quieter than the HS51A in low lamp mode. Thank you Sony!

- Bright Corners: As Jason has said, if you look for them, you can barely see them, so not a problem.

- Is there a Sub-Service /Service Menu? I say this because it seemed like there were some things missing from the service menu controls. For instance when you look into the service menu W/B color temp settings for HIGH/MEDIUM/LOW, they all read 128 across the board for RGB bias/gain. Hello? While I expected the USER color temp controls to all read (0), the service menu color temp controls usually have a range a values reflecting the differences in color temp. Is this the same for other Sony SXRD projectors?

- Side Mount Connections: I share Stainless-Steels's sentiments in that I'd rather have the connection in the rear. It's workable, and I'm sure many other folks like the side mount connections.

- Hmmm, what else...I guess that's it for now. I'm gonna go watch Troy on BG. I'll post anything else that jumps out at me, and I will follow up on how the AE3000 compares late next week.

Feel free to ask me for things to check out on the HW10.

Cheers

RJ

XBL GT:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
 

PSN ID: Bytehoven

Battle Log:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
 

Bytehoven is offline  
Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

Tags
Sony Vplhw10 3 Lcd Home Theater Projector

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off