Official JVC RS10/HD350 Owners Thread! - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 2036 Old 01-05-2009, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post

Since this thread has slowed down a little I'm hoping Has anyone upgraded from a Sony projector such as the VW100 or VW60 to the RS10? Although I've already ordered my RS10 and expecting delivery by the weekend. I'm trying to set my expectations. Any feedback is appreciated.

Hi, I upgraded from a VW50 to a HD350 (white). The difference is quite big. The increase in sharpness is easy to notice. Blacks are ofcourse much better on the JVC. My VW50 had lost some of its edge contrast wise, even with a new lamp. The biggest difference is the enormous on-off contrast without dynamic iris that the HD350 has over the VW50. I am really happy with the upgrade.

Both my VW50 and my new HD350 were calibrated by cine4home. I run the HD350 in normal lamp mode, on iris 2 (middle setting) on a 1.2 gain 2.24meter wide screen (16x9 = 100 inch diagonal) with masking for 16x9, 2.35:1 and 1.85:1.

I got the HD350 21-12 and have around 75 hours now on the lamp.


screenshots :




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post #272 of 2036 Old 01-05-2009, 01:31 PM
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riwi,

Your post is very informative and thanks for your excellent shots.

DG
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post #273 of 2036 Old 01-05-2009, 01:38 PM
 
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riwi,
Any chance you'd share your settings for us to get started on tweaking our projector?

Scott
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post #274 of 2036 Old 01-05-2009, 01:51 PM
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I am not sure if posting my settings will help you. Color spectrum of a lamp will vary greatly and will also change with age of the lamp.

I am in user2 setting on color custom2, with custom gamma set to 2.2
R=0, G=-20, B=-67 (bias) and R=0 ,G=0, B=0 (gain)
contrast=0, brightness=0, color=-9

Also different settings are needed when running in high lamp mode.
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post #275 of 2036 Old 01-05-2009, 02:42 PM
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Riwi,

Any comments on the relative audible noise between the VW50 and the HD350? The specs look to be similar, but looking for real world comparison.
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post #276 of 2036 Old 01-05-2009, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbain View Post

Riwi,

Any comments on the relative audible noise between the VW50 and the HD350? The specs look to be similar, but looking for real world comparison.

The HD350 is more quiet. The vw50 was not loud by any standard, but produced a lower toned hum. I never found it irritating. My previous benq pe8700 was much louder and more irritating.
I can hardly hear the HD350 at all. I found the HD1 too loud (and too expensive) when I bought the vw50 20 months ago. I am sitting 1 meter away, directly underneath the HD350 (same spot as my vw50 was).
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post #277 of 2036 Old 01-05-2009, 06:45 PM
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OMG Riwi, that is a gorgeous projector. Can you tell me how you managed to snag a white casing HD350.

Great screen shots also. I think I am getting closer to pulling the trigger on the HD350. I can live without the 12 volt trigger at this point and time.
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post #278 of 2036 Old 01-05-2009, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alan278 View Post

I seem to be having vertical lens shift problem as well. Horizontal moves just fine, but no movement on vertical.
Just to confirm - this is a "typical" problem that requires a replacement, rather than a setting or lock-switch or something like that?
Thanks.

You will need to have it replaced. I had exactly the same issue. The lock out feature applies to both horizontal and vertical adjustments. You'll also see a prompt onscreen indicating the lens shift is locked if that option is enabled.

Not sure if you are in Canada, but the packaging I've seen on these units is extremely poor. Especially given the cost and positioning of the units as premium quality. JVC Canada does not double box them. Both my original and replacement arrived in a single box which leaves the lens completely exposed to the elements through the hand hold box cutouts. You can reach in and touch the lens cover without opening the box. Maybe that's a reason for the lens shift damage - certainly doesn't help.

Funny thing (not really) is that JVC has requested that I be sure to 'double box' the damaged unit before I return it. I've asked them to ship me an 'outer box' if they want me to do that. Ugh.

To end on a positive note, the replacement seems to be working ok so far. Hope your replacement works ok as well.
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post #279 of 2036 Old 01-05-2009, 07:26 PM
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Thanks bowlbyd for your suggestions.

Can I expect to get anything other than 8 bit color from my cable box? I have not tried my ps3 yet (i share it with my son who has it tied up with games on his tv right now), but cable box (1080i), dvd (480), and vudu (1080p/24) are all giving me 8 bit color.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bowlbyd View Post


.....well by going through the PS3, the color space was 12bit instead of 8 and the PS3 upconverts content to 1080P/60 instead of 1080i and yes it makes a huge difference...so if any of you are using a regular DVD upconvert player with this thing...ditch it. Also, if you are using a blu ray player other than the PS3, see what colors you are getting across when your player upconverts, the PS3 will upconvert to 12bits while my regular DVD player came across as 8 bits and 1080i. The main reason I used my old DVD player was because it has IR that works nicely with my universal remote.

...

Please check your info button and make sure it is coming through the way you think it is, if it is coming through as a 1080i source, I found it doesn't handle the 3:2 pulldown that incredibly well and got better results setting my Dish receiver to 720P instead (removed the jaggies that would occur from time to time). Also, check how many colors are coming through, 12 bit is far superior in shadow detail and overall quality than 8 bit is.
...

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post #280 of 2036 Old 01-05-2009, 07:33 PM
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I noticed projector central has the image calculator posted for the RS10 finally so I ran quick figures for my mounting distance, screen size and screen gain. According to results, I'm at almost 25flps. I'm concerned this may be a too bright. Any thoughts on this? My RS10 will be mounted about 17.6ft from the screen, 100 inches diag, 1.3 gain screen.

Do I need to be concerned?
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post #281 of 2036 Old 01-05-2009, 10:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post

I noticed projector central has the image calculator posted for the RS10 finally so I ran quick figures for my mounting distance, screen size and screen gain. According to results, I'm at almost 25flps. I'm concerned this may be a too bright. Any thoughts on this? My RS10 will be mounted about 17.6ft from the screen, 100 inches diag, 1.3 gain screen.

Do I need to be concerned?

I don't think you need to be concerned.

The best part about the HD350/RS10 is it's flexibility. The HD350/RS10 has a three position manual iris, in it's first position it does around 16,000:1 on/off contrast with a little over 900 lumen's. If it's too bright for you, you can set the iris to the 2nd position which will increase on/off contrast to around 22,000:1 and cut the lumen's to around 500-600, the third position takes the JVC to around 33,000:1 contrast but only around 400 lumen's. Most users will probably enjoy the 2nd position setting the best, if you have a high gain screen like the Dalite hi-power position three with it's 33K:1 may be a practical option but most will probably find it too dim.
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post #282 of 2036 Old 01-05-2009, 11:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matts View Post

OMG Riwi, that is a gorgeous projector. Can you tell me how you managed to snag a white casing HD350.

Great screen shots also. I think I am getting closer to pulling the trigger on the HD350. I can live without the 12 volt trigger at this point and time.

White version of 350 is sold outside of US. I know it is available here in Japan for sure.

Click the link to see pics of my home theater

http://s450.photobucket.com/albums/q...oom/?start=all
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post #283 of 2036 Old 01-06-2009, 01:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matts View Post

OMG Riwi, that is a gorgeous projector. Can you tell me how you managed to snag a white casing HD350.

Thanks. The HD350 is available in black and white here in Europe. I bought mine in Germany because of the availability (I couldn't get one before christmas in Holland so I decided to shop across the border). The shop had several units both in black and white all calibrated by cine4home. I read there are also RS10 units here, but these are all black with the gold line accross it.
The remote is silver when you buy a white HD350.

I preferred a white one because I have the projector ceilingmounted in my livingroom, this way it is less noticable.
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post #284 of 2036 Old 01-06-2009, 02:25 AM
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looks verry nice Riwi!!!

I have to get one myself as well.
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post #285 of 2036 Old 01-06-2009, 10:01 AM
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Yes, 8 bit color would be normal for cable or Satellite. On your DVD player however, you should get a blue ray or use your PS3, even for standard DVD's. I found a pretty noticeable increase in quality when I ditched my Sony DVD player that output at 1080i, but only 8 bit color. IN the PS3, it up scales normal DVD's and outputs 1080P with 12 bit color and they look great.
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post #286 of 2036 Old 01-06-2009, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherardp View Post

White version of 350 is sold outside of US. I know it is available here in Japan for sure.

That is a shame that the white casing units are only sold outside of the U.S. It is a very nice touch by JVC.
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post #287 of 2036 Old 01-06-2009, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip3kx07 View Post

I don't think you need to be concerned.

The best part about the HD350/RS10 is it's flexibility. The HD350/RS10 has a three position manual iris, in it's first position it does around 16,000:1 on/off contrast with a little over 900 lumen's. If it's too bright for you, you can set the iris to the 2nd position which will increase on/off contrast to around 22,000:1 and cut the lumen's to around 500-600, the third position takes the JVC to around 33,000:1 contrast but only around 400 lumen's. Most users will probably enjoy the 2nd position setting the best, if you have a high gain screen like the Dalite hi-power position three with it's 33K:1 may be a practical option but most will probably find it too dim.

Where are coming up with these numbers? I checked CINE4Home measurements for HD350, and they are nowhere close to these (lower) both in lumens and CR.

http://cine4home.de/news/JVCHD750/HD...iew.htm#Update
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post #288 of 2036 Old 01-06-2009, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wohlstad View Post

Where are coming up with these numbers? I checked CINE4Home measurements for HD350, and they are nowhere close to these (lower) both in lumens and CR.

http://cine4home.de/news/JVCHD750/HD...iew.htm#Update

That's because cine4home's published numbers are from a pre production HD350.





"even at proper D65 settings I got about 968 lumens"

"But with the added light output I was able to acheive higher contrast as well (just over 16000:1)."

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1091538

"Good news. After more playing, with the iris engaged I got over 33000:1 contrast! Granted the light output dropped to just shy of 400 lumens, but still....quite impressive!"

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1092012
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post #289 of 2036 Old 01-07-2009, 03:53 AM
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riwi
Whoa those screens are awesome in terms of dynamics and blacks. Although they don't look that sharp but it could be the camera. Patiently waiting for more.
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post #290 of 2036 Old 01-07-2009, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip3kx07 View Post

That's because cine4home's published numbers are from a pre production HD350.





"even at proper D65 settings I got about 968 lumens"

"But with the added light output I was able to acheive higher contrast as well (just over 16000:1)."

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1091538

"Good news. After more playing, with the iris engaged I got over 33000:1 contrast! Granted the light output dropped to just shy of 400 lumens, but still....quite impressive!"

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1092012


Well, if these results can be independently confirmed, it will be impressive.
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post #291 of 2036 Old 01-07-2009, 01:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wohlstad View Post

Well, if these results can be independently confirmed, it will be impressive.

That was a quote from Jason at avscience. So I think its confirmed
Look at the stickys in the top of the >3k forum and read the "First look at rs10".
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post #292 of 2036 Old 01-07-2009, 02:12 PM
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Out of curiousity, I've been reading about a number of problems with the R20 in its forum, related to the lens shift/housing and wonder is any RS10 users are experiencing similar issues.
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post #293 of 2036 Old 01-07-2009, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W3bbY View Post

That was a quote from Jason at avscience. So I think its confirmed
Look at the stickys in the top of the >3k forum and read the "First look at rs10".

Well, I meant independent confirmation of Jason's results.
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post #294 of 2036 Old 01-07-2009, 05:31 PM
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I too wonder why no one else has gone on record as recording the on/off of the RS-10.

However, as JVC has been very accurate with there specs, it seems to me that we don't really have any reason to doubt them.

By the way, if the 33,000:1 on/off is correct, which it should be, and say on your screen peak white is 12ftl, then black level will be .00036. That's pretty close to black. I think many light meters only go down to .001.
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post #295 of 2036 Old 01-07-2009, 08:19 PM
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Whats the ANSI of rs10? Is this pj sharp or soft compared to DLP's and mitsubishi's ?
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post #296 of 2036 Old 01-07-2009, 10:16 PM
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When comparing the RS2 to the RS10, I cannot see any advantages of the RS2. On the contrary, it appears that the RS10 is the better projector. Am I missing something?
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post #297 of 2036 Old 01-08-2009, 09:37 AM
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First off, thanks to everyone on this site for all the great information! I'm a newbie when it comes to calibrating with anything other than the Video Essentials Basics disk. But with all the great info being shared on this site, I decided to purchase an Eye One LT color meter and give it a more serious effort.

I'm having some issues with getting the gamma settings correct on the projector and wondering if anyone has suggestions.
I used the very informative document written by Kal (Greyscale & Colour Calibration for Dummies) to walk through the process. Really a great document for a beginner to get oriented. As I expected though, a little bit of knowledge can be dangerous

I used the HCFR software, Kal's document, and the Eye One LT meter.
-RS10 set to "Custom 2" setting as a starting point
-Gamma set to 2.4 (based on recommendations I've seen on this site)
-Lamp in Normal' mode
-Lens set at 3 (most light output)
-Elite R100WH1 screen CineWhite material with 1.1 gain
-Ceiling mounted projector (12 feet from the screen to lens)
-Fully light controlled room (no ambient light / walls painted dark matte colour)

I ran through the process several times as outlined in the document.
I was able to get my "delta E" to less than 5 for the 20% grey pattern and less than 2 for 30% through to 100% grey test patterns. From reading the document, this would seem to be excellent results. My delta E for the 10% was 12.2 - not great but not too bad either.

Light output measured at 16.174 ftL using the 100% pattern (I'm disappointed by this - was expecting a lot more than this when using the fully open aperture position). I believe this translates to approx 436 lumens and was really expecting closer to 850 or so with the lens wide open
RGB levels seem to track very close to the reference line so it seemed like I was on the right track.

However, looking at the other graphs in HCFR, the luminance starts to differ significantly above the reference curve starting from the 30% grey test point and increasing substantially up to 100% (i.e. increasing slope above the reference curve). The gamma graph starts at about 2.25 for the 10% pattern and drops off the chart by the time it hits the 90% pattern - i.e. it tracks in a steep downward sloping curve instead of a reasonably straight line.
It seems that getting the grey scale to (x=0.313, y=0.329) for each reference point does not mean your gamma setting stays correct. Actually looks like I've really messed up the gamma at the same time I've got a very accurate grey scale

Any suggestions on how I can get both the grey scale and gamma correct at the same time?

What would be the reason for me getting so much lower light output than referenced in the reviews (maybe the Eye One is not the appropriate device for determining light output)?

My calibrated' settings are:
Contrast= 9
Brightness= 0
Color= -3
Gamma= 2.4
Tint= -3
Gain Red= 0
Gain Green= -22
Gain Blue= -73
Offset Red= 0
Offset Green= 1
Offset Blue=2
Gamma= 2.4
Lens Aperture= 3
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post #298 of 2036 Old 01-08-2009, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riwi View Post

I am not sure if posting my settings will help you. Color spectrum of a lamp will vary greatly and will also change with age of the lamp.

I am in user2 setting on color custom2, with custom gamma set to 2.2
R=0, G=-20, B=-67 (bias) and R=0 ,G=0, B=0 (gain)
contrast=0, brightness=0, color=-9

Also different settings are needed when running in high lamp mode.

Mine is also isf calibrated and just to show that the differences are too much between units to just copy the numbers here are mine:

gamma = normal (ie ok ootb)
contrast = 0, brightness= 0, color=2
(gain) r= 0, g = -16, b = -71
(ofset) r= -3, g= -1, b = -2


peter
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post #299 of 2036 Old 01-08-2009, 04:41 PM
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"When comparing the RS2 to the RS10, I cannot see any advantages of the RS2. On the contrary, it appears that the RS10 is the better projector."

Are you comparing spec's or the pj's images?

Noah
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post #300 of 2036 Old 01-08-2009, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

"When comparing the RS2 to the RS10, I cannot see any advantages of the RS2. On the contrary, it appears that the RS10 is the better projector."

Are you comparing spec's or the pj's images?

Just specs. Still waiting for someone who has seen both side by side.
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