Official JVC RS10/HD350 Owners Thread! - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 2040 Old 02-26-2009, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssak View Post

Thanks Jason ...

Three more questions !!!


1) Is 1.3 gain enouph even for a 120" ?


2)I am anxious about "waves". Is really tab tensioning the only way to avoid waves or there are fabrics who stay flat even without tab-tesnioning systems?

2) Since Steward is too expensive right now for me, I have started to look for something cheaper.
Dalite Cosmopolitan Electron is an option. I was between Da-mat and Matt-white version (both 1.0 gain , I don't know where is the difference between them) but after Jason answer, Cinema Vision is an option too, with its 1.3 gain ...

Any comments or advise....

1. Most likely it is still enough...but it depends on how you plan to set it up. At max output, you would get about 31 footlamberts (fresh lamp, high lamp mode, etc...). That being said, since that is plenty, as you take into consideration other settings, lamp dimming, etc... you should still be aokay.

2. DaMat is an unsupported fabric (requires tensioning)...matte white is a supported fabric (doesn't require tensioning). If you plan for a TENSIONED Cosmo, you have to get DaMat. If you plan for a NONTENSIONED Cosmo, then the Matte White is the one you would get (no choice there). But, both of those are 1.0 (unity gain). You would want the CinemaVision (1.3) which is only available with the tensioned model.

Hope that helps.
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post #632 of 2040 Old 02-26-2009, 09:32 AM
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Thanks again Jason for your quick responce...

There is also the Video Spectra option with 1.5 gain (supported)..

Since it doesn't need tensioning and its gain is higher from Cinema Vision, can we say that it is a clever and more economical choice or the higher gain introduce other problems ?
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post #633 of 2040 Old 02-26-2009, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssak View Post

Thanks again Jason for your quick responce...

There is also the Video Spectra option with 1.5 gain (supported)..

Since it doesn't need tensioning and its gain is higher from Cinema Vision, can we say that it is a clever and more economical choice or the higher gain introduce other problems ?

Yes it is a 1.5 gain, and doesn't require tensioning. BUT, it is not as transparent a fabric. In other words, there tends to be more texture that is visible. You might want to get some samples if possible.
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post #634 of 2040 Old 02-26-2009, 09:49 AM
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Wonder what happened to greg R's RS10 review? (He's had the projector for over two months now.)
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post #635 of 2040 Old 02-26-2009, 09:54 AM
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Not sure...but he does tend to run a couple fews months from the time he gets it to when it is released. Hopefully soon.
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post #636 of 2040 Old 02-26-2009, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by No Fun
At the present time I have a 120" Draper Hi Def grey with a gain of .8 and I do not think that this will work with the RS10. In that case, what screen gain do your recommend?

Quote Jason's
Well it will certainly work, but probably not an ideal choice if you were planning on buying from scratch. I would first suggest getting the projector and using it with your current screen to get a feel for what needs changing (if anything...personal preference).


Thanks Jason. That was my plan, but I wanted your suggestion of gain, to give me that "pop" image, for my application. I know that its "(if anything...personal preference).",and that will be my final decision, but a starting point would be appreciated for a higher gain "white screen".
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post #637 of 2040 Old 02-27-2009, 07:46 AM
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No problem. You do have the advantage of already having that screen, so you get to play and figure out where you want/need help in a newer screen. Many don't get that luxury and have to virtually guess at it.
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post #638 of 2040 Old 02-27-2009, 10:21 AM
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Jason, you are correct, well put.

I just got my samples from Draper, the M1300 and the M2500. Even with the M1300, with its 1.0 gain, was much brighter than my .8 gain HI Def Grey. The M2500 was much brighter, but seemed to have a sheen, even with my IF7200 projector with 900hrs on it. The M2500 looks like it will hotspot.These samples will give me some ideas, of what the different screen gains will look like, even with my present projector.

I am still waiting for the Da-lite screen samples.
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post #639 of 2040 Old 02-27-2009, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by No Fun View Post

Jason, you are correct, well put.

I just got my samples from Draper, the M1300 and the M2500. Even with the M1300, with its 1.0 gain, was much brighter than my .8 gain HI Def Grey. The M2500 was much brighter, but seemed to have a sheen, even with my IF7200 projector with 900hrs on it. The M2500 looks like it will hotspot.These samples will give me some ideas, of what the different screen gains will look like, even with my present projector.

I am still waiting for the Da-lite screen samples.

The M2500 works great with a long throw setup. You may get some hot spotting with a short throw setup. Sheen does exist on axis but off axis it goes away. It is minor and really doesn't bother me. I needed the extra gain. If you can get away with good brightness and 900 hours on a bulb using the M1300 then that is the one you should get.
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post #640 of 2040 Old 02-27-2009, 11:39 AM
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His IF 7200 with 900 hours on the bulb is "probably" putting out more lumens than the RS10 does with a brand new bulb...

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post #641 of 2040 Old 02-27-2009, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by No Fun View Post

Jason, you are correct, well put.

I just got my samples from Draper, the M1300 and the M2500. Even with the M1300, with its 1.0 gain, was much brighter than my .8 gain HI Def Grey. The M2500 was much brighter, but seemed to have a sheen, even with my IF7200 projector with 900hrs on it. The M2500 looks like it will hotspot.These samples will give me some ideas, of what the different screen gains will look like, even with my present projector.

I am still waiting for the Da-lite screen samples.

I'd be weary of the M2500...it has some known issues with QC, as well as yes there is a bad sheen to it.
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post #642 of 2040 Old 02-27-2009, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiHoStevo View Post

His IF 7200 with 900 hours on the bulb is "probably" putting out more lumens than the RS10 does with a brand new bulb...

I would have to disagree with this. I have tested many RS10's and average max output is 920ish lumens. The Infoucs SP7200 was about 1200 with a new lamp, but at 900 hours probably would be about 1/2. Of course this all depends on how each is setup.
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post #643 of 2040 Old 02-27-2009, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Turk View Post

I would have to disagree with this. I have tested many RS10's and average max output is 920ish lumens. The Infoucs SP7200 was about 1200 with a new lamp, but at 900 hours probably would be about 1/2. Of course this all depends on how each is setup.

That is pretty impressive output... I was expecting more around the high 600's or low 700's.

Those 920ish lumens were "after" calibration?

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post #644 of 2040 Old 02-27-2009, 01:17 PM
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HD-350 (RS10) after 400 lamp hours in normal lamp mode iris 3 Graywolf 2 120" 1.8gain screen...
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post #645 of 2040 Old 02-27-2009, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiHoStevo View Post

That is pretty impressive output... I was expecting more around the high 600's or low 700's.

Those 920ish lumens were "after" calibration?

Indeed...I always rate calibrated to D65 (as an aside, JVC and Infocus are amongst a VERY small breed of manufacturers that their published ratings are taken at D65).

Again, though, depends on the setup. If you close down the iris for instance, it drops to around 400 or a tad less (course then you have super high contrast so there are always pros and cons).
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post #646 of 2040 Old 02-27-2009, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Turk View Post

Indeed...I always rate calibrated to D65 (as an aside, JVC and Infocus are amongst a VERY small breed of manufacturers that their published ratings are taken at D65).

Again, though, depends on the setup. If you close down the iris for instance, it drops to around 400 or a tad less (course then you have super high contrast so there are always pros and cons).

Thanks Jason I appreciate that info....... I knew IF reported their lumens that way, but I was unaware that JVC did also.... very refreshing!

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post #647 of 2040 Old 02-27-2009, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronomy View Post

The M2500 works great with a long throw setup. You may get some hot spotting with a short throw setup. Sheen does exist on axis but off axis it goes away. It is minor and really doesn't bother me. I needed the extra gain. If you can get away with good brightness and 900 hours on a bulb using the M1300 then that is the one you should get.

Thanks Ronomy:

Between the two, I think the M1300 would be the best bet, as I intend to have a short throw setup. Have to see how well some of the Da-lite screen samples look like.


[Quote=Jason;I would have to disagree with this. I have tested many RS10's and average max output is 920ish lumens. The Infoucs SP7200 was about 1200 with a new lamp, but at 900 hours probably would be about 1/2. Of course this all depends on how each is setup.

The lumens have dropped some, so I have increased the contrast level about 10 levels and its seems to be quite bright and as sharp as when new. I have found that Blu-ray Disc's help in this a lot, as compared to my regular DVD's.

Thanks for the good news Jason ,that the RS10 will be even brighter, so it just might work for my Hi Def Grey Screen.
I just finished watching The Fifth Element Blu-ray with the IF7200 and the picture was really excellent. This makes me think that my existing screen may work.
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post #648 of 2040 Old 02-27-2009, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiHoStevo View Post

Thanks Jason I appreciate that info....... I knew IF reported their lumens that way, but I was unaware that JVC did also.... very refreshing!

No worries. It is becoming more common (Planar does it as well, as does Sim2, Marantz, etc...). Hopefully we'll get to a standard of rating so it is easier to compare.
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post #649 of 2040 Old 02-27-2009, 01:59 PM
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The lumens have dropped some, so I have increased the contrast level about 10 levels and its seems to be quite bright and as sharp as when new. I have found that Blu-ray Disc's help in this a lot, as compared to my regular DVD's..

Be a bit careful. The contrast (and brightness) settings are designed to setup to a known level (using a test pattern). If you go too high (above this level) you will cause clipping of the whites, which can adversely affect the image.
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post #650 of 2040 Old 02-27-2009, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Turk View Post

Be a bit careful. The contrast (and brightness) settings are designed to setup to a known level (using a test pattern). If you go too high (above this level) you will cause clipping of the whites, which can adversely affect the image.

I found this out as I was increasing the settings, plus as you go higher, I would lose some detail in white to light scenes.
I forgot to mention that I have been running the projector in low power mode, so the bulb may not have deterioated that much. Anyway I am due for an upgrade to the RS10.
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post #651 of 2040 Old 02-27-2009, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Turk View Post

I'd be weary of the M2500...it has some known issues with QC, as well as yes there is a bad sheen to it.

I actually thought the Dalite High power has more sheen than an M2500 (new formula). I have a rather large sample of it and on top of my M2500 it sheens more. Jason Draper changed the formula of the coating a few years ago. It's not the same screen. Old screen yielded 2.1 gain and the new one is about 1.7 gain. Track marks are no more...at least not on mine and I had two other M2500 screens in the past. They had a lot more gain then the new formula. I happen to need the gain on my 120 inch because of my 23 foot throw with my RS1. New bulb I get about 432 lumens, low lamp and with the 1.7 gain I get a little over 17ft-L on my screen. With a neutral gain screen i would only have a little over 10ft-L with a new bulb. The M2500 makes my setup work and it works very well. I probably wouldn't use it with a short throw setup just because angular reflective screens can hot spot when projecting a short throw. I don't have any hot spot with my setup.
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post #652 of 2040 Old 02-28-2009, 05:28 PM
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Had a home demo of the HD350 and HD750 today compared to my AE3000. Long story short; my AE3000 is sold and I'm ordering a HD350 as soon as the shop reopens. The HD750 was slightly better (my room isn't a 'batcave', but competely dark and plenty of velvet/black cloth to soak up room reflections), but not £2k+ better IMHO. The main difference wasn't so much the black level, but the brighter whites in dark scenes (end credits being the most vivid example, but many other actual film scenes showed this effect up in a good light). I also thought both the HD350 and HD750 had a certain '3D' effect on the image depth, that was slightly lacking when we rewatched the same scenes on the AE3000.

I have just bought a used Lumagen HDQ and expect to be able to wring a little more out of the HD350 with this (and to help with some CIH issues due to the loss of my AE3000 lens memory). Looking forward to watching some films on the HD350 and tweaking it to D65 (or close as my Eye-one will allow ).

I may have to stop coming on the forums else I'll just continue to upgrade continuously.........

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post #653 of 2040 Old 02-28-2009, 08:29 PM
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Thanks for the comparison of the two

Quote:
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I may have to stop coming on the forums else I'll just continue to upgrade continuously.........

I'm with you! As soon as my theater is done I have to stop coming here, I'll end up broke

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Thanks for the comparison of the two



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It's actually harder than you think. I'm hooked.

It really is. With no Pioneer Kuro plasmas coming this year I'm being sucked into the FP world and will hopfully be there by the end of the month. In the past after I've had a new TV for several months I ended up not visiting AVS as much but I end up coming back later only to hear about the next new thing. This hobby is an addiction!
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post #656 of 2040 Old 03-01-2009, 02:02 AM
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"The main difference wasn't so much the black level, but the brighter whites in dark scenes"

Which one had the brighter whites? The 350 is supposed to be brighter.

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post #657 of 2040 Old 03-01-2009, 03:06 AM
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May be the iris was clamped down in order to match the blacks of 750
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post #658 of 2040 Old 03-01-2009, 03:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

"The main difference wasn't so much the black level, but the brighter whites in dark scenes"

Which one had the brighter whites? The 350 is supposed to be brighter.

TBH, I couldn't really say that the HD350 was particularly brighter, but bear in mind I got the dealer to set the HD350 iris to position 2 and the the HD750 to position 6, so they were pretty close (didn't check with my meter though). In either case there is enough 'spare' brightness to allow for the bulb dimming (both had less than 40 hours on them IIRC). My screen is a 112" wide 2.35:1 tab tensioned Beamax with a gain of 1.5. It is equivelent to zooming out on a 128" diagonal 16:9. I'm lucky in that the PJ sits over 2 metres behind and even in high lamp mode, the fan could barely be heard from my seat with the amp muted. We had my AE3000 on the whole time too, so it was actually two fans together, so maybe my hearing isn't what it could be.

I did a more in depth 'review' over on the UK forum that I'm also a member of; I don't think I'm allow to link to it, but it should be easy enough to find for those interested enough.

I really like the lack of brightness compression with either of the JVCs: There was a scene in 'Forbidden Kingdom' where they where in a dark forest, with a camp fire in the background. When we went back to viewing it on my AE3000 the blacks of the forest still looked deep (though not as deep as either JVC), but the camp fire looked like it was just a glowing ember. Equally, dark scenes with a window in the background showed the same effect with the bright outside sunshine showing through.

In parallel to this I've been getting to grips with my Lumagen HDQ, so that will be able to help fine tune the HD350 where it's own controls can't help. I didn't actually fine the colours of the HD350 too bad and we looked at the HD750 with various CMS settings (gleened from this forum's HD750/RS20 calibration thread) and I found I prefered the 'recJVC' which on the oversaturated side anyway, maybe why I found the HD350 acceptable? I can reduce red or green push with the HDQ, so I'll see what I manage with the HD350.

I plan to edit the three iris positions in the service menu to give me the same brightness in 2.35:1 zoom mode and 16:9 then keep the third setting for extra brightness on rare occasions when viewing with ambient light.

I'm hoping my dealer can get me one for next weekend as it looks like my AE3000 will be going to it's new home later this week.

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post #659 of 2040 Old 03-01-2009, 10:53 AM
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Well I've been enjoying the RS10 now temporarily installed on a make-shift stand projecting against the wall and as my first projector, I'm pretty much blown-away.

Due to the vaulted ceilings in my room, I have to mount this projector on a wall. Can anyone recommend a wall mount solution? I don't want to use a shelf due to earthquake concerns.

Also, the way I need to route the HDMI cable, I'll need a length of around 50 feet or so. Will I have problems running HDMI at such a distance?

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post #660 of 2040 Old 03-01-2009, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KRB View Post

Well I've been enjoying the RS10 now temporarily installed on a make-shift stand projecting against the wall and as my first projector, I'm pretty much blown-away.

Due to the vaulted ceilings in my room, I have to mount this projector on a wall. Can anyone recommend a wall mount solution? I don't want to use a shelf due to earthquake concerns.

Chief makes several mounting solutions for vaulted ceilings..

This ceiling plate from Chief might makes sense if you still want to mount on your ceiling.



http://www.chiefmfg.com/productdetai...ccessoryID=226

If not, they also make several wall mount solutions or you can just make a shelf.

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