Official epson 6500ub owners thread - Page 11 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #301 of 4390 Old 12-31-2008, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

Have you experimented with HD sports action, like football or hockey, regarding the 120hz FineFrame?

I am most definitely curious how hockey looks on this thing, for 80% of what I watch is Hockey and with Dish Center Ice lots of it is in HD. I cant wait to see a game on 110" compared to my current 50" plasma...
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post #302 of 4390 Old 12-31-2008, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by smakovits View Post

I am most definitely curious how hockey looks on this thing, for 80% of what I watch is Hockey and with Dish Center Ice lots of it is in HD. I cant wait to see a game on 110" compared to my current 50" plasma...

i can tell you that HD football looks great. The bowl games and NFL are amazing. i have not seen any other sports yet though... but i will!!!!!
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post #303 of 4390 Old 12-31-2008, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmalto View Post

Has anyone else used Art's settings for TheaterBlack 1? In one part he says to use Saturation of -3 and then in the RGB section he says to use -8. I am curious if the -8 was the final end result and -3 was the initial tweaking result?

Link to calibration settings: http://www.projectorreviews.com/epso...alibration.php

Based on my findings with the 1080UB, which looks to have very similar color management to the 6500UB, the -8 for color will give you more accurate colors than -3. They are very oversaturated out of the box with the Epsons. Tint also tends to be -5 to -10. I have also since found that S. Tone should be set to zero for the most accurate color decoding based on my measurements. Gamma 2.4 is the most accurate gamma preset unless you have the tools to accurately set the custom gamma.

The RGB just adjusts the greyscale, and not the color decoder. The color and tint control adjust the color decoder.

Dan
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post #304 of 4390 Old 12-31-2008, 08:27 AM
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Dan - I found similar results with the 1080UB but never questioned why that was the case. 2.4 gamma produces too dark of an image on my 1.1 gain screen even in high output mode. I dropped it down to 2.3 for an overall compromise and will try to tweak around it.

Wes - I actually did email Art and am waiting to hear back from him. I was just curious if anyone else noticed this that may of played with his settings.
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post #305 of 4390 Old 12-31-2008, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

Have you experimented with HD sports action, like football or hockey, regarding the 120hz FineFrame?

Yes, as you may have seen in that discourse, I experimented with football and basketball HD sports action and see no significant difference. It is all good and does not seem to benefit (to my eyes..). Some others have reported some marginal benefit. I don't see it, except on the ticker....which is so little (and of such low importance) that it is not worth the trade-off....
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post #306 of 4390 Old 12-31-2008, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by cbaseuser View Post


Maybe everything else about this projector is SO GOOD, that it's short comings in the 120hz tech. department is all that there is to complain about:

This is exactly the case. And, again, the reason why people are documenting (and I specfically) the observations are to get it known for the product managers and engineers to look at if they so desire. People are learning about the benefits and weaknesses of all this on this unit because it is a new feature .... nothing else.

I think the colors are great, but I have yet to check them with AVC HD 709 on primary and secondary checking....which I will when I get my replacement unit....as it is not worth my time to do the one I am going to actually return. THe colors are MUCH better than the way out of bounds RS-1 that gives neon yellow and green and too bright of red.....I would bet they end up being a tad over-saturated for the purist theater watcher once I dig into it....but they look damn good for sports this way...
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post #307 of 4390 Old 12-31-2008, 08:50 AM
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Enclosed are my calibration settings based on Greyscale adjustment using Color HCFR and an Eye-One Display LT. I have not done any primary or secondary color checkings. Note, absolutely no other modifications to color settings (like saturation, tint, skin tone, etc.,) have been made from when the projector arrived since my still evolving understanding is that the better way to adjust for a pj that has independent "offset" and "gain" adjustments for R, G, B, and also the ability to adjust primaries, is to do it in those menus, which I have recently purchased an Eye-One Display LT to do so... Measurements taken from the screen, a 1.16 gain SMX / Sheerweave 4500 Acoustic Transparent screen. I have just added my ColorHCFR output files. The filenames for these files match up with the excel listing of my adjustments. Basicly, I took before and after file saves from Color HCFR for Living Room, Natural, and TB1 in high lamp mode, and for TB1 in low lamp mode as well. In the future I might use Living Room in low lamp mode also and give that a whirl. Right now, I watch movies in TB1 low lamp or inceasingly, in TB High lamp. When I am just in and out of the room and watching sports or bcast tv I might run in Natural High. When I want to have some modest ambient light on for a party, or my adjacent LCD for a second ball game, I run in Living Room High. The irony is that when I am in Living Room high it is so darn bright in my confined room (tan floor and light tan cove ceiling...dark bronze side walls all the around) of 15' x 18' that I don't need ambient light :-) To see my room, look at the first two pics of this link http://www.seymourav.com/installsfixed.asp Room is completely light controlled (powered retractable skylight, etc.) and can be a bat cave, other than the lighter carpet color and higher cove ceiling color than what a bat cave purist would want. hence, i think at a certain level of brightness I start getting enough reflection from the PJ on the carpet and the upper cove ceiling that I have nearly reached my point of diminishing returns on contrast benefits...


Would be fun for someone who has AVS do their calibration to share their results.

Notes:

delta E on Living Room prior to calibration ran 23 +/-1 from IRE 30-90. delta E on Living Room after calibration ran 1.8-2.5 from IRE 30-70 and 4.0 at 80.

delta E in TB1 Low Lamp prior to calibration ran 0.7 to 6.4 from IRE 20-100 (which is quite good and challenges the need to calibrate given the bulb will change in the first 60 hours). After calibration my settings yield 0.4 to 2.7 from IRE 30-80 and up to 4.8 if you add IRE 20 and 90, and 5.4 at IRE 100

delta E in TB1 High Lamp (now my favorite viewing mode for movies) prior to calibration ran 7.0-8.6 from IRE 30 - 100, and 11.3 at IRE 20. After calibration it was 0.9 - 2.4 from IRE 30-100 and 5.4 at IRE 20.

 

Epson 6500 UB Calibration Settings.zip 6.65625k . file

 

ColorHCFR Files.zip 28.6875k . file
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post #308 of 4390 Old 12-31-2008, 08:54 AM
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Dave - You may want to post your results in the calibration and tweaks thread if you haven't already. I plan on using the exact same combo you did to calibrate mine except I have a 1.1 gain screen.
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post #309 of 4390 Old 12-31-2008, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmalto View Post

Dan - I found similar results with the 1080UB but never questioned why that was the case. 2.4 gamma produces too dark of an image on my 1.1 gain screen even in high output mode. I dropped it down to 2.3 for an overall compromise and will try to tweak around it.

Wes - I actually did email Art and am waiting to hear back from him. I was just curious if anyone else noticed this that may of played with his settings.

My custom gamma is even higher gamma(darker shadows and mid tones) than the preset 2.4, but I need a completely darkened room to gain the benefit. Accoring to my HCFR software and my DisplayOne LT, the custom gamma was needed to accurately display a 2.22 display gamma. It looks excellent, but ANY stray light and it washes out the picture. My custom gamma settings were consitent across three different 1080UBs, using a PS3 as the blu-ray source.

My walls are a flat tan color, as is my carpet with a 106" Da-lite HCMW screen.

If I'm watching sports with a little ambient light, I might bump it up to the preset 2.2 gamma.

Dan
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post #310 of 4390 Old 12-31-2008, 09:55 AM
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Hi @ All,

I just received my TW5000 yesterday and have been having fun getting it installed. Only problem is, I'm not able to run Blu-ray through it at the moment, and keep getting a blue screen and a message that the signal is not supported.

I'm using a Yamaha Blu-ray player running through a Yamaha receiver (HD-DVD/BR port) using a very high quality HDMI cable (1.3b compatible). The receiver is then linked to the projector with a 10m HDMI cable (no name, about 3 years old).

Apart from this, I've been running a DVD player through another HDMI port on the receiver, with no problems. I also have a Wii hooked up via component. I have it plugged into the HD-DVD/BR component port.

I've had a quick skim through the menu options for the projector and the receiver but haven't had any luck so far. Any tips on what I'm doing wrong here?

Thanks a lot for your help - it's greatly appreciated!

almoganga
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post #311 of 4390 Old 12-31-2008, 10:01 AM
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In regards to 120hz, when playing video games, I always thought that 60 frames per second was as smooth as I could wish for. When playing a first person shooter in 60 frames per second, there was no choppiness or motion blur (on a crt). I'm not really sure 120hz is necessary in itself to have an image look smooth. I personally thing 60hz is fine.

Of course movies are a whole different story because of 24fps, so some sort of pull down is always necessary to display it properly.
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post #312 of 4390 Old 12-31-2008, 10:02 AM
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I assume when you mean amp you are talking a receiver? If so you would want to hook an HDMI cable into one of the HDMI inputs on the projector and the other end going into the receiver HDMI out. You want to run another HDMI cable from your Blu-ray player directly into an HDMI input on the receiver.

If you have it this way try changing the resolution on the Blu-Ray player to 720p on another TV then try the projector again and bump it up to 1080p once it is hooked back into the projector. You may want to bypass the amp all together and go directly into the projector for testing purposes.
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post #313 of 4390 Old 12-31-2008, 10:04 AM
 
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Just got off the phone with AVS. I was told my unit would ship yesterday, it did not. Seems Epson has pulled the plug on shipping because of Focus Ring problems. AVS has a batch they got in. AVS is going to inspect each units focus ring. The ones with no problems that pass will ship overnight for no extra charge. In fact Epson is paying the difference in shipping of the over night price so AVS does not have to absorb it.
If I am lucky I may see my unit this Friday? If not I guess we wait for the next batch that passes quality control from Epson..
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post #314 of 4390 Old 12-31-2008, 10:08 AM
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Good, I hope they inspect for convergence and anything else that could be wrong as well. I'm glad they care about QC.
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post #315 of 4390 Old 12-31-2008, 10:10 AM
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Hi jmalto,

Thanks for the reply - and yes, I did mean receiver, sorry!

I have the player hooked up via HDMI and tried it out with my old HD ready projector, picture was fine. It's only with the Epson that I'm having a problem. I expect it's something really simple that I'm just missing...

almoganga
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post #316 of 4390 Old 12-31-2008, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by almoganga View Post

Hi jmalto,

Thanks for the reply - and yes, I did mean receiver, sorry!

I have the player hooked up via HDMI and tried it out with my old HD ready projector, picture was fine. It's only with the Epson that I'm having a problem. I expect it's something really simple that I'm just missing...

almoganga

I have some handshaking issues from my Onkyo 805 if the projector is not on first, then the receiver, and then the player itself. I am sure this varies by equipment, but try that order.
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post #317 of 4390 Old 12-31-2008, 10:20 AM
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That's good of Epson to step up. Would be better if the problem never made it to production units, but that's life, I can't hold it against Epson too much! Kudos to them for doing the right thing and compensating AVS for the trouble. I wonder if this is related to shipping conditions, or if it might be a manufacturing issue...

I've heard of focus ring issues in this thread, can anyone elaborate on what they've experienced?

P.S. Just ordered my 6500 from Jason yesterday, hooray! Maybe I'll have it by the end of Jan...
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post #318 of 4390 Old 12-31-2008, 10:46 AM
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Hi again, All,

I tried jmalto's suggestions for getting a picture from Blu-ray - and no luck. Any other suggestions as to what I might be doing wrong here?

Thanks, jmalto, for all your help!

Have a great New Year,

almoganga
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post #319 of 4390 Old 12-31-2008, 10:46 AM
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Mine already shipped Monday, what should I look for when it arrives? what is the focus ring issue that seems to be holding things up?
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post #320 of 4390 Old 12-31-2008, 10:54 AM
 
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Focus ring issue is very easy to diagnose. The ring is frozen will not turn or adjust. No movement zoom and focus impossible. it is glued together or one solid piece. Unit can not be focused.

I think it would be very obvious to see if you have the problem or not immediately!
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post #321 of 4390 Old 12-31-2008, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smakovits View Post

Mine already shipped Monday, what should I look for when it arrives? what is the focus ring issue that seems to be holding things up?

Mine too....it will be here friday. Wow, this is nerve racking!!!!!!
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post #322 of 4390 Old 12-31-2008, 11:04 AM - Thread Starter
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It seems that the problem has only been reported in few units. Epson wants to avoid having to send you another unit. That is the reason why they are checking for problems.
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post #323 of 4390 Old 12-31-2008, 11:28 AM
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Most here don't seem to care about FI, but I do! I haven't heard of any FI problems with the Panny 3000; however, it seems mostly unusable with the Epson. I'm going to wait and see if there's a fix soon, and if not, I'll purchase the Panny. I find it rather frustrating that Sanyo and Panasonic can at least do a descent job with FI and Epson has apparently completely missed the boat.
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post #324 of 4390 Old 12-31-2008, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laredo View Post

Focus ring issue is very easy to diagnose. The ring is frozen will not turn or adjust. No movement zoom and focus impossible. it is glued together or one solid piece. Unit can not be focused.

I think it would be very obvious to see if you have the problem or not immediately!


Thanks for the heads up. I think mine was among the first shipped, so I'm not sure if AVS had a chance to inspect.

I will definitely check it out before I ceiling mount the sucker!
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post #325 of 4390 Old 12-31-2008, 12:14 PM
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My 6500 arrived from AVS this morning at 10 am. I just finished the first round of testing. The 6500 is ceiling mounted at the minimum throw distance for a 106" Da-Lite HCCV 16:9 screen. Here are my observations so far.

Out of the box, fan noise was very loud. I was extremely disappointed. Then I noticed it was in Dynamic mode with High Brightness. As soon as I moved to Theater Black 1 and low brightness, it purred like a kitten. It is so quiet, that now I can hear my BD-35 Blu-ray player that I did not notice with my old projector. My basement is exteremly quiet, so the smallest noise can be heard. I can hear the projector during quiet segments of viewing, but it is acceptable. It is a much different frequency than my old projector.

Picture is stunning compared to my old AE-700, but I knew it would be. There are no convergence issues in the center of the screen, but off 1 pixel on red at both sides of the screen. This may be because I am at the minimum throw distance. I used the fine cross hatch test patterns on my DVDO Edge to test. No stuck or dead pixels. Zoom and focus knobs work smoothly so far, but I only used them once. Offset knobs also seem to work without issue.

HDMI handshaking is longer with more screen flashes than with my old projector. The video chain : Source -->DVDO Edge --> Onkyo 805 --> 6500. Some of the handshaking may be due to the fact that I have the Edge set to 1:1 mapping, so it may need more time to change from one output format to the next. It takes a long while to synch, but everything is fine after that. It will not be an issue with blu-ray or HD DVD discs, but it is annoying for FIOS TV. I need to try some other settings to see if this improves.

FI is interesting, as it my first experience with it. It is terrible for 1080p24, but seems to work halfway decent with 1080i60 on low. The first time I turned it on it was "WOW" what just happened. It is hard to describe the "look" of the picture. I would say it has more "depth?" and the smoothness is like a video camera or something. I still haven't found a good way to describe it. I tried it on my HD DVD version of "Planet Earth" 1080i60 low setting, and it actually looked pretty good. I tried it on the BD version of "Kill Bill 1" 1080p24 and it jerked all over the place. I tried it on FIOS HD channels 1080i60 low setting and it looked ok. Cartoon channels looked good even on medium. High setting didn't work for anything. Sports looked very good on low. The image takes on a pseudo 3-D look. I doubt I will use the FI except perhaps on animated stuff or perhaps sports.

The 4:4 setting on 1080p24 worked as expected. I did not see any jerkiness, when watching "Dark Knight". The strange thing is that the image is so crisp compared to my old projector that I notice why many have complained about the transfer. I see a lot of video noise in parts of this transfer that I did not see before. I do not think it is the projector, because the noise is not there in other BD discs like "Kill Bill". I did have the noise reduction set to 0 (the default is 1). I saw many specks of dirt in the transfer that I never saw before. This projector definitely shows any flaws in the source.

I stopped viewing and shut the projector down for the evening. Parties to go to, but tomorrow will be a full day of more enjoyment.

I did notice that the remote is not very responsive at times. I am not sure what the cause of this may be. When entering the Menu, sometimes I have the push the arrow buttons several times to move through the menu options. Then the cursor will jump several items in a row. It is quite annoying especially when trying to make changes and selections. I am not sure if I have a bad remote, or something else is making it sluggish. I have tried aiming in front, behind, underneath, doesn't seem to make a difference. It will enter the Menu quickly, but then be very slow to respond once in. I also noticed the same sluggishness when trying to move between picture modes. Anyone else notice this?
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post #326 of 4390 Old 12-31-2008, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bakpakva View Post


FI is interesting, as it my first experience with it. It is terrible for 1080p24, but seems to work halfway decent with 1080i60 on low. The first time I turned it on it was "WOW" what just happened. It is hard to describe the "look" of the picture. I would say it has more "depth?" and the smoothness is like a video camera or something. I still haven't found a good way to describe it. I tried it on my HD DVD version of "Planet Earth" 1080i60 low setting, and it actually looked pretty good. I tried it on the BD version of "Kill Bill 1" 1080p24 and it jerked all over the place. I tried it on FIOS HD channels 1080i60 low setting and it looked ok. Cartoon channels looked good even on medium. High setting didn't work for anything. Sports looked very good on low. The image takes on a pseudo 3-D look. I doubt I will use the FI except perhaps on animated stuff or perhaps sports.


I had my buddy over last night and was showing off my new setup. When i turned the FI on he described it by saying "it makes it look like a soft core porn.. but really clear!" That about describes it.
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post #327 of 4390 Old 12-31-2008, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bakpakva View Post

HDMI handshaking is longer with more screen flashes than with my old projector.

Same exact experience....don't waste time blaming any source or connection path devices...I have the same experience with any source connected to my marantz SR8001 via HDMI 1.2
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post #328 of 4390 Old 12-31-2008, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nysoundman View Post

I had my buddy over last night and was showing off my new setup. When i turned the FI on he described it by saying "it makes it look like a soft core porn.. but really clear!" That about describes it.

Even if they fixed the jerkiness and tearing in the high mode, I doubt I would use it. It just looks very 'odd'. Not that it is bad, just doesn't look like a movie anymore. It seems fine for TV programs, and I am sure my neighbors are going to be blown away by the "pop and wow". When I tried it for "Kill Bill" 1080p60 low it was like it was captured by a HD Camera. It no longer looked like a film based presentation.

Maybe I just needed more time to get used to it, but I doubt it. I think I will stick to 1080p24 4:4 pulldown. It still looks like film, but it has a sharper look to it.
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post #329 of 4390 Old 12-31-2008, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davedelite View Post

Same exact experience....don't waste time blaming any source or connection path devices...I have the same experience with any source connected to my marantz SR8001 via HDMI 1.2

same here! it takes upwards of 10-12 seconds sometimes when switching sources. Kind of a pain but it sure looks good when it pops up.
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post #330 of 4390 Old 12-31-2008, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bakpakva View Post

Even if they fixed the jerkiness and tearing in the high mode, I doubt I would use it. It just looks very 'odd'. Not that it is bad, just doesn't look like a movie anymore. It seems fine for TV programs, and I am sure my neighbors are going to be blown away by the "pop and wow". When I tried it for "Kill Bill" 1080p60 low it was like it was captured by a HD Camera. It no longer looked like a film based presentation.

Maybe I just needed more time to get used to it, but I doubt it. I think I will stick to 1080p24 4:4 pulldown. It still looks like film, but it has a sharper look to it.

i agree that it looks 'cool' but not right. I tried it on Sleeping Beauty and it made it look almost 3D but it didnt look like a movie anymore. I dont see myself using it very often except for maybe sports. I will say... it is amazing what it does to the picture.
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