Official epson 6500ub owners thread - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 4388 Old 01-02-2009, 01:16 PM
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Make sure the first thing you do is to check that the focus ring is not frozen. I can't believe the lack of QC at Epson ! For a 3k projector to be shipped with this sort of problem in unacceptable and unbelievable !!!
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post #362 of 4388 Old 01-02-2009, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neekos View Post

Make sure the first thing you do is to check that the focus ring is not frozen. I can't believe the lack of QC at Epson ! For a 3k projector to be shipped with this sort of problem in unacceptable and unbelievable !!!

Well it's certainly bitterly disappointing. Mine will arrive Monday. Is it possible that the packaging allows the lens to hit the side of the box in shipping?

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There's a reason they're called the fine arts--buy them on blu-ray.
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post #363 of 4388 Old 01-02-2009, 01:49 PM
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it's possible, but the lens does have the foam protection around it so I doubt it is caused by blunt force.
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post #364 of 4388 Old 01-02-2009, 02:18 PM
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i am about three days in with my 6500 ub so far it rocks,looks good on my 120,a light cannon but great blacks,i know its not the best out there,but in the price range, i think it is. joe
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post #365 of 4388 Old 01-02-2009, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neekos View Post

Just got the 6500 UB

It's going back. Got it with a frozen focus ring.

What day was it shipped to you? In an post earlier this week (HERE) it was indicated that AVS would check the focus ring on the the 2nd batch (received from Epson 12/30, I believed) before shipping out to customers.

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post #366 of 4388 Old 01-02-2009, 02:31 PM - Thread Starter
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It seems that a small number of projectors have the focus ring issue. That is the reason why Epson is having AVS check all the ones that they are shipping. This is one of the reasons for the delay. I don't know if it is a QC or shipping issue. I am sure it will be sorted out.
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post #367 of 4388 Old 01-02-2009, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post

What day was it shipped to you? In an post earlier this week (HERE) it was indicated that AVS would check the focus ring on the the 2nd batch (received from Epson 12/30, I believed) before shipping out to customers.

I didn't buy it from AVS. I bought it from PP.
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post #368 of 4388 Old 01-02-2009, 02:38 PM
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as long as the convergence is better than the last batch right ?
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post #369 of 4388 Old 01-02-2009, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by rmccormack View Post

as long as the convergence is better than the last batch right ?

Believe it or not, my convergence issue has improved a lot since when I first reported it being off. I believe it was Dave that said his did the same thing as well. Once I got a few hours on the bulb it improved tremendously. It is still off by a pixel, but it is a lot better then the first time I checked it.

I was hoping the projector would be bright enough over my 1080ub to where I didn't have to buy higher gain screen material but unfortunately it isn't. Now I am trying to decide if I want to be cheap and get the Elite Powergain material or go with Da-Lite and be broke
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post #370 of 4388 Old 01-02-2009, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwestley View Post

I am sure it will be sorted out.

Yes, I too have no doubt of that. But I held off for a long time on my purchase and did without video entertainment of any kind for several months because of Epson's QA reputation. Thus it remains a bitter disappointment that they would have a failure of QA of this magnitude.

blu-ray Operas: 6
blu-ray Ballets : 1
There's a reason they're called the fine arts--buy them on blu-ray.
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post #371 of 4388 Old 01-02-2009, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmalto View Post

Believe it or not, my convergence issue has improved a lot since when I first reported it being off. I believe it was Dave that said his did the same thing as well. Once I got a few hours on the bulb it improved tremendously. It is still off by a pixel, but it is a lot better then the first time I checked it.

I was hoping the projector would be bright enough over my 1080ub to where I didn't have to buy higher gain screen material but unfortunately it isn't. Now I am trying to decide if I want to be cheap and get the Elite Powergain material or go with Da-Lite and be broke

What size screen are you running, and how much brighter would you say the 6500 is over the 1080. From Arts review it looks to be a little improvement. I think it went from high 400s to high 500s in best mode and 1800 to almost 2200 in brightest mode
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post #372 of 4388 Old 01-02-2009, 04:25 PM
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Just got my 6500 in and YES it has a frozen focus ring and Epson says that they'd overnight me another unit IF they had one!! Now I'm getting the run around from the place that I bought it from too. He has units BUT doesn't want to ship me one and says that it's Epsons fault and they should stand behind it and not him. I'm getting nowhere here & getting more pissed off by the moment.
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post #373 of 4388 Old 01-02-2009, 05:41 PM - Thread Starter
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I still think that most of the units are ok. What I have learned over the years is that the people with the issues are the ones who post on this forum. An example of this is the drive failure on the Panasonic BD30 Blu-Ray units. A small number of drives including mine failed. Panasonic replaced the drive and that was the end of it. I am not saying that it is not a problem that any units fail. I do know that Epson will stand behind their product better than most other companies. I think that any dealer should also stand behind the product especially if they have units in stock. That is the reason why I have ordered mine from the AVS store and I am having it QC checked.
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post #374 of 4388 Old 01-02-2009, 05:49 PM
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I have a sony vpl-hs51 projector,,,4yrs old,,,,how much improvement will I see if i upgraded to this projector? Total light control...running dish HD and PS3
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post #375 of 4388 Old 01-02-2009, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwestley View Post

I still think that most of the units are ok. What I have learned over the years is that the people with the issues are the ones who post on this forum. An example of this is the drive failure on the Panasonic BD30 Blu-Ray units. A small number of drives including mine failed. Panasonic replaced the drive and that was the end of it. I am not saying that it is not a problem that any units fail. I do know that Epson will stand behind their product better than most other companies. I think that any dealer should also stand behind the product especially if they have units in stock. That is the reason why I have ordered mine from the AVS store and I am having it QC checked.

I don't doubt Epson would stand behind their product, THEY SHOULD. I don't know who was at fault or how they missed this QC piece, but something of this magnitutude is simply unacceptable.
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post #376 of 4388 Old 01-02-2009, 06:05 PM
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what differences do you see between this and your 1080ub,,,,,what are you planning to do with your 1080ub....selling it?
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post #377 of 4388 Old 01-02-2009, 06:08 PM
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that wasn't me, it was jmalto
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post #378 of 4388 Old 01-02-2009, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Ati. View Post

what differences do you see between this and your 1080ub,,,,,what are you planning to do with your 1080ub....selling it?

Out of the box the 6500UB looks better. I am having a harder time getting this one dialed in then my 1080UB but I haven't really had near the amount of time dedicated to playing with it (too many bowl games on)

Light output gain between the two is no where near what I thought it would be. My 1080UB always looked "dim" to me because of my throw distance so I was hoping upgrading to the 6500 would help with that problem but unfortunately it hasn't. I am looking at picking up some higher gain screen which will help solve that problem.

Black levels are DEFINITELY improved on the 6500 even not fully calibrated. The 1080 was no slouch to begin with, but the 6500 is better and a lot of pure black content you can barely tell the difference between the black bars & the movie content. I think the next models from Epson will be spot on if they can improve the technology.

There is very little to no visible lag present in gaming and I am a huge gamer. I also hooked my laptop up and the convergence issues I was having is not apparent which had me concerned when I originally got the unit. My 1080UB never fully "looked right" when I used the VGA port and it is definitely sharper on the 6500.

Overall the unit is quiet, does not run near as hot as my 1080UB did (I had to keep a fan on it) and while the FI and 4:4 settings are not perfect they are still fun for some material. Once I get the projector calibrated better and pick up a higher gain screen I think it will be a keeper unless someone comes out with a super projector in this price range

I sold my 1080UB on ebay already and for those trying to decide between the 6500 and the new Panasonic, while I have not seen my brother's setup my Dad came up this weekend and he commented the Epson looks much sharper and "cleaner" then my brother's. My other brother is coming over tomorrow and has seen my other brother's setup a lot so I will see what he thinks and post back. (Yes I know room setup, screen gain, throw distance, etc. all have to be taken into account.)
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post #379 of 4388 Old 01-02-2009, 07:05 PM
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This may be a dumb question... but does throw distance matter much if the resulting image size is the same?

It is a tough choice, so I decided "both"! My AE3000 just arrived today. I have a 6500UB on order, but it's actually a "pre-order" (from an e-tailer that shall remain nameless) so I'm not expecting it any time soon. Gotta admit I'm a little spooked by the frozen focus ring, funky FI implementation, and other potential QC issues reported in this thread... but of course the stellar contrast/black level and added brightness are still very appealing.

Signature Challenged.
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post #380 of 4388 Old 01-02-2009, 08:19 PM
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Well, I can finally say I have lost my projector virginity this evening. I went ot UPS to pick up my 6500UB. The box was in great shape and packed very nicely. Going back on the guy that had his all loose...I would definitely say something is fishy there. Here is what I got:





The best part of the evening was when my wife saw and said OMG thats awesome. Now mind you I set this baby up on the kitchen counter and hung a white sheet from the cabinets. The picture was beautiful, however, I have an issue, and I am not able to pin it down. I read some posts saying it was because I was upscaling to 1080p but I dont know...

There is a line down the right side of the image, being fed from a S350 via HDMI set to 1080p
this is a SD DVD you can see the line faintly

I turn off the the dvd player and it is gone:

on the default splash screen it is not there either

Then I play the BD demo disc that came with my PS3 and BAM!


Now, I will note one thing. When I first start the demo disc and go to videos and play the first chapter, welcome to BD or explore BD, I dont recall the exact wording but it is the very first choice under the demo videos, the green line is not there. As soon as you go to chapter 2 the line shows up. I rule out the disc because it was there on my standard DVD too.

- I tried 2 different 6 foot HDMI cables and both HDMI inputs.
- I connected it via component at 1080 i and I did not see the line
- I found some things talking about this being because of upscaling, so I tried hard setting the player to 1080i as well as auto, but both times the green line is still there via HDMI.
- There was another suggestion I found that said to bring the image in 2 pixels or something like that, but that just doesnt sound right.

Has anyone else seen or heard of this with their 6500UB. I have a feeling it is not the projector though. I may try some normal HD content via Dish but that will require some configuring on the kitchen counter...

Any thoughts? Otherwise my initial projector experience is wonderful, now to only finish the theater.

Also, in testing a solution for this, is it bad to be turning the projector on and off to test various things, or should I wait for a few suggestions test those and then shut the projector down again for a little while? I have heard the on/off effect with a projector is much different than that of a normal TV.

Thanks Guys!
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post #381 of 4388 Old 01-02-2009, 09:29 PM
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Just had a few friends over to screen The Dark Knight on the new system and the consensus all around was "this is better than the movie theater... it looks more clear... and we can drink!"

I am blown away by this thing. It is my first front projector, so i do not have a lot to go off of, but it is amazing. even my wife is excited about it.

Video games, movies, sports, TV... everything looks/plays great. What is amazing to me is how a 100" picture can look better than the 50" LCD rear projection TV that i had before.

Very impressed and happy.
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post #382 of 4388 Old 01-02-2009, 10:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nysoundman View Post

Just had a few friends over to screen The Dark Knight on the new system and the consensus all around was "this is better than the movie theater... it looks more clear... and we can drink!"

I am blown away by this thing. It is my first front projector, so i do not have a lot to go off of, but it is amazing. even my wife is excited about it.

Video games, movies, sports, TV... everything looks/plays great. What is amazing to me is how a 100" picture can look better than the 50" LCD rear projection TV that i had before.

Very impressed and happy.

Yeah. Is this a great hobby or what? Ten years ago a reproduced image of this caliber was unimaginable for home systems (especially at this price). Wow.
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post #383 of 4388 Old 01-02-2009, 10:47 PM
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Got mine today. So far, no known issues or problems. I'm very pleased with this pj. Yes, the handshake can take a while, but that is minor for me. I used Art's adjustments for Theater Black 1, but my calibration disk is in the mail and I look forward to doing a proper calibration.

Quote:
Originally Posted by d james View Post

I guess this is why so many directors choose 24 frames, since it does give that not quite reality look comapred to 60 frames and especially 120 frames. I wonder though if it is just because we are so used to seeing 24 frames that 120 doesn't sit right with alot of people.

I think you may have hit the nail right on the head...

My 2 cents on Frame Interpolation:

I watched the opening scene of The Shining on bluray. The camera pans across a lake and then over a forest, eventually zooming in on the car on the road. I was first of all impressed with the level of detail (water, forest) on the HD transfer for a movie this old and how good it looks on the Epson. With FI off, there was noticeable jerkyness in the motion (at least when sitting 9 feet from a 126" screen ). With it on, and with the PS3 set to output video as Art advised, the improvement was significant. What was really amazing, however, was watching the scene where Jack Nicholson goes for his job interview at the Overlook hotel. (I watched clips from several BD movies and this was the most pronounced) With FI on, there really was a "3D" aspect to the movie. My wife cares nothing about this stuff, but even she said "wow". However, as everyone else has noted, the FI creates a hyper realism that makes the movie look "shot on video". For example, in that scene where Nicholson is being interviewed, it reminded me of watching an interview on the Letterman show or something.

So, despite the advantages, we feel inclined to watch movies with the FI off. That seems to be the consensus here, although maybe we are selling ourselves short. I mean, techically, the quality of the presentation is increased when FI is on...at least in the sense that it is a closer approximation to reality. The problem is, we are completely used to watching movies with an artificially low frame rate that, in our minds, has come to represent "normal". I find it somewhat ironic that home theater enthusiasts often measure the quality of their setup by how close the projected image comes to approximating reality, but then when a new technology allows a huge leap towards reality, it is almost universally rejected. Obviously, the "director's intent" argument immediately presents itself, but just how valid is that point? Remember that 24fps became standard for cinematic presentations in the mid 1920's simply because that was the technology available. Now, close to a century later, we are still using that standard despite huge advances in technology that allow for a much more realistic and accurate reproduction of reality..simply because we are "used to it". Arguably, directors nowadays who have the budget are forced to use either shoot on film or shoot digitally and convert to "filmlike" 24fps simply because it is expected. Otherwise, they end up having their product look low budget or, at best, "experimental".

I have a lot of independent films, and the vast majority of them were shot on video due to budgetary constraints. I always wondered what it was that gave these films an "unprofessional" feel to them...and now I know! Unfortunately, I fear that part of my disdain for shot on video movies must come from their generally low budget nature. That is, movies that look "that way" are generally low budget, meaning they also are likely to have terrible acting and cheesy FX. Maybe if we simply watch enough quality movies with FI on, we will eventually overcome our largely artificial objections to the "shot on video" look, and maybe even come to prefer it for its increased realism and fluidity.
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post #384 of 4388 Old 01-02-2009, 11:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyniclaus View Post

Got mine today. So far, no known issues or problems. I'm very pleased with this pj. Yes, the handshake can take a while, but that is minor for me. I used Art's adjustments for Theater Black 1, but my calibration disk is in the mail and I look forward to doing a proper calibration.



I think you may have hit the nail right on the head...

My 2 cents on Frame Interpolation:

I watched the opening scene of The Shining on bluray. The camera pans across a lake and then over a forest, eventually zooming in on the car on the road. I was first of all impressed with the level of detail (water, forest) on the HD transfer for a movie this old and how good it looks on the Epson. With FI off, there was noticeable jerkyness in the motion (at least when sitting 9 feet from a 126" screen ). With it on, and with the PS3 set to output video as Art advised, the improvement was significant. What was really amazing, however, was watching the scene where Jack Nicholson goes for his job interview at the Overlook hotel. (I watched clips from several BD movies and this was the most pronounced) With FI on, there really was a "3D" aspect to the movie. My wife cares nothing about this stuff, but even she said "wow". However, as everyone else has noted, the FI creates a hyper realism that makes the movie look "shot on film". For example, in that scene where Nicholson is being interviewed, it reminded me of watching an interview on the Letterman show or something.

So, despite the advantages, we feel inclined to watch movies with the FI off. That seems to be the consensus here, although maybe we are selling ourselves short. I mean, techically, the quality of the presentation is increased when FI is on...at least in the sense that it is a closer approximation to reality. The problem is, we are completely used to watching movies with an artificially low frame rate that, in our minds, has come to represent "normal". I find it somewhat ironic that home theater enthusiasts often measure the quality of their setup by how close the projected image comes to approximating reality, but then when a new technology allows a huge leap towards reality, it is almost universally rejected. Obviously, the "director's intent" argument immediately presents itself, but just how valid is that point? Remember that 24fps became standard for cinematic presentations in the mid 1920's simply because that was the technology available. Now, close to a century later, we are still using that standard despite huge advances in technology that allow for a much more realistic and accurate reproduction of reality..simply because we are "used to it". Arguably, directors nowadays who have the budget are forced to use either shoot on film or shoot digitally and convert to "filmlike" 24fps simply because it is expected. Otherwise, they end up having their product look low budget or, at best, "experimental".

I have a lot of independent films, and the vast majority of them were shot on video due to budgetary constraints. I always wondered what it was that gave these films an "unprofessional" feel to them...and now I know! Unfortunately, I fear that part of my disdain for shot on video movies must come from their generally low budget nature. That is, movies that look "that way" are generally low budget, meaning they also are likely to have terrible acting and cheesy FX. Maybe if we simply watch enough quality movies with FI on, we will eventually overcome our largely artificial objections to the "shot on film" look, and maybe even come to prefer it for its increased realism and fluidity.

Cyniclaus. Very interesting. FI is prompting a lot of videophiles to re-examine the "whole process". For me, it's quite simple. I like film to transport me to a different "place". Sometimes, I need to go to "a galaxy far, far, away". Film at 24fps can do that. The ultra real look of HD video makes it harder to suspend belief, and go with whatever time or place the director wants the audience transported to ( even in some instances if it's "present day"). I think a lot of the home theater enthusiasts want Blu-Ray to reproduce the film exactly the way the director intended ( this sometimes means grain, soft focus, and intended warts), which is the director's intended "reality", but not our visual razor sharp day to day "reality".
Concerning the subject of "judder" elimination, one of the intended characteristics of FI, most of the really good directors have cinema photographers who understand the limitations of 24fps, and shoot the panning scenes with this in mind (sometimes resorting to placing the camera on rails to laterally record panning movement, or being careful to focus on the wideshot or close-up angle in a way that reduces visible background motion judder). With a good projector and Blu-Ray player sending out an unaltered 24fps source, nowadays judder should not be bothersome. For the most part.

But just having video projection equipment that allows us to critique film in this fashion, and gives us these options, is really cool, and a movie buffs dream come true.
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post #385 of 4388 Old 01-03-2009, 12:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmalto View Post

Light output gain between the two is no where near what I thought it would be. My 1080UB always looked "dim" to me because of my throw distance so I was hoping upgrading to the 6500 would help with that problem but unfortunately it hasn't. I am looking at picking up some higher gain screen which will help solve that problem.

jmalto, what is the size of your screen and what is the throw distance? Also are you using the low or high lamp mode on the 6500UB?
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post #386 of 4388 Old 01-03-2009, 01:46 AM
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Just spent last 5 hours on the newly received 6500UB. Very sharp and dark compared to my old Sony HS10 unit. No issue with PS3 game play at all. A bit of jerkyness when playing movies especially in paning left and right.
Questions: Which commecially mounting kit is good for ceiling mount ?
Any DIY solutions ?
Thanks.
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post #387 of 4388 Old 01-03-2009, 05:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwestley View Post

I still think that most of the units are ok. ...

Sorry if I was unclear. I meant the word "magnitude" in its qualitative sense not quantitative. The problem seems to imply that the units were assembled, packed and shipped without ever being tested to see if they could project an image. Perhaps it betrays my age but I expect better than that for something that lists for essentially $3000.00

blu-ray Operas: 6
blu-ray Ballets : 1
There's a reason they're called the fine arts--buy them on blu-ray.
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post #388 of 4388 Old 01-03-2009, 06:21 AM
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Just a couple comments on the last two nights of viewing. So far those that have seen the 6500 have been extremely impressed with the image. Last night one of my guests walked up to the screen after the movie and stuck his hand in front of the screen just to see the shadow. His joked that the picture looked so much like a large screen plasma TV that he wanted to make sure. Everyone comments on how bright, sharp, and clear the image appears.

Everyone is also "Wowed" by the FI, yet no one likes it. I switched to FIOS after the movie ended to show off some of the HD channels 1080i60 FI at low. Watching "Bones" , the comments were that it looked 3-D but also very "disturbing". When I switched over to football, the crowd insisted that I hold the next Super Bowl party. It was the best picture any of them had ever seen or even imagined was possible in a home theater.

While no one has complained about the fan noise, I personally do not like the shutter noise in either high or normal mode. The 'hard drive like' sound drives me nuts, so I leave it off. The good news is that the image is perfectly acceptable without it.

I also have figured out my remote responsiveness issue. There seems to be two parts to it. First, the projector is ceiling mounted just a few feet in front of me and I think this gives a difficult angle for the IR sensor. If I move to a different seat location, the remote is much more responsive. Secondly, it appears that when moving to the sub menus there is some time delay needed when moving down the list of options. It seems I can move through 2-3 very quickly, then I need to give it a second before another down or up command. I am used to it now, so it is not a problem as I won't be moving through the menus that often once everything is stored in the memory locations.
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post #389 of 4388 Old 01-03-2009, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by cyniclaus View Post

Got mine today. So far, no known issues or problems. I'm very pleased with this pj. Yes, the handshake can take a while, but that is minor for me. I used Art's adjustments for Theater Black 1, but my calibration disk is in the mail and I look forward to doing a proper calibration.



I think you may have hit the nail right on the head...

My 2 cents on Frame Interpolation:

I watched the opening scene of The Shining on bluray. The camera pans across a lake and then over a forest, eventually zooming in on the car on the road. I was first of all impressed with the level of detail (water, forest) on the HD transfer for a movie this old and how good it looks on the Epson. With FI off, there was noticeable jerkyness in the motion (at least when sitting 9 feet from a 126" screen ). With it on, and with the PS3 set to output video as Art advised, the improvement was significant. What was really amazing, however, was watching the scene where Jack Nicholson goes for his job interview at the Overlook hotel. (I watched clips from several BD movies and this was the most pronounced) With FI on, there really was a "3D" aspect to the movie. My wife cares nothing about this stuff, but even she said "wow". However, as everyone else has noted, the FI creates a hyper realism that makes the movie look "shot on film". For example, in that scene where Nicholson is being interviewed, it reminded me of watching an interview on the Letterman show or something.

So, despite the advantages, we feel inclined to watch movies with the FI off. That seems to be the consensus here, although maybe we are selling ourselves short. I mean, techically, the quality of the presentation is increased when FI is on...at least in the sense that it is a closer approximation to reality. The problem is, we are completely used to watching movies with an artificially low frame rate that, in our minds, has come to represent "normal". I find it somewhat ironic that home theater enthusiasts often measure the quality of their setup by how close the projected image comes to approximating reality, but then when a new technology allows a huge leap towards reality, it is almost universally rejected. Obviously, the "director's intent" argument immediately presents itself, but just how valid is that point? Remember that 24fps became standard for cinematic presentations in the mid 1920's simply because that was the technology available. Now, close to a century later, we are still using that standard despite huge advances in technology that allow for a much more realistic and accurate reproduction of reality..simply because we are "used to it". Arguably, directors nowadays who have the budget are forced to use either shoot on film or shoot digitally and convert to "filmlike" 24fps simply because it is expected. Otherwise, they end up having their product look low budget or, at best, "experimental".

I have a lot of independent films, and the vast majority of them were shot on video due to budgetary constraints. I always wondered what it was that gave these films an "unprofessional" feel to them...and now I know! Unfortunately, I fear that part of my disdain for shot on video movies must come from their generally low budget nature. That is, movies that look "that way" are generally low budget, meaning they also are likely to have terrible acting and cheesy FX. Maybe if we simply watch enough quality movies with FI on, we will eventually overcome our largely artificial objections to the "shot on film" look, and maybe even come to prefer it for its increased realism and fluidity.

This is one of the most thoughtful posts I have read concerning FI. A previous poster has also commented that he "forced" himself to watch with FI on for a week or so and now prefers it. Personally, having seen several 3D movies at the IMAX I suspect the crowd here is going to hate it when 3D comes to home theatre, even though it'll be what the director intended. It looks to be much more of a gimmick than FI, from what I've seen. HT will be changing dramatically over the next five years or so and I think it'll be interesting to hear the various reactions to those changes from the "film" buffs.
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post #390 of 4388 Old 01-03-2009, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by cyniclaus View Post

However, as everyone else has noted, the FI creates a hyper realism that makes the movie look "shot on film". (...) Maybe if we simply watch enough quality movies with FI on, we will eventually overcome our largely artificial objections to the "shot on film" look, and maybe even come to prefer it for its increased realism and fluidity.

Surely you're confusing terms here. With FI on, the film looks like it's shot on video, not on film. It's the non-FI 24p playback that looks like it's "shot on film".

Please, feel free to call me by my first name, Petri.
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