Official epson 6500ub owners thread - Page 28 - AVS Forum
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post #811 of 4388 Old 01-17-2009, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnDW View Post

when I get into the aspect ration control submenu, I cant scroll through it - it stays on normal (it looks like the correct aspect for the Blu-ray i am playing) but I want to set to auto -any suggestions/thoughts ?

for those still on the fence-this is one bright balanced PJ - with brightness at higer level you can watch with room lights on OR even some daylight; at lower brightness (blb sparing) the iris and fan are very very quiet -other than my question above remote is fine and menus intuitive

As per the note on page 28 of the 6500UB Owner's Manual, the aspect ratio is "automaticly selected" for 720p, 1080i and 1080p inputs via HDMI and component video and the aspect ratio cannot be changed. This is not unusual for HDTVs where the aspect ratio can only be changed for standard definition signal inputs (i.e., 480i and 480p). The HDTV standards call for all HD formats to use a 1.78 aspect ratio.

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post #812 of 4388 Old 01-17-2009, 09:22 AM
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Since the discussion is on brightness now, I'm curious what people think "in the real world" about how the image looks with normal ambient light. In other words, if you turned on the lights at night, or had indirect sunlight in the room, how bright is it (on whatever mode looks "best" in that situation.. Dynamic, Brightest, etc)?

If you put an LCD/plasma/CRT next to it, how does it compare?
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post #813 of 4388 Old 01-17-2009, 09:29 AM
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The TV is going to win. Stray light is the enemy of a projector. It will still be plenty watchable with some ambient light, but you lose the pop that you get with the lights off because it doesn't take much to wash out the picture.

Dan
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post #814 of 4388 Old 01-17-2009, 09:50 AM
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That's what I would expect, Dan. From what people have been saying here, I was thinking it was either the holy grail or everyone being in bat caves.
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post #815 of 4388 Old 01-17-2009, 11:56 AM
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Hello I am currently looking for a projector to replace the Epson home10+ that we have at work. We watch alot of TV on the weekends and sometimes use the projector for up to 16 hours a day. Mind you that those days are usually on weekends and holidays only. The current Epson projector had started to get a green ting to the blacks and is almost non existant in bright pictures. Will this epson be a good projector or should we considder the pro model? also looking at the sony vm 60 I belive.
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post #816 of 4388 Old 01-17-2009, 12:03 PM
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About a year and a half ago I entered the world of projectors. I am 60 years old and this was quite a step for me but I studied and learned about home theater at places like here at AVS. I still was not too sure about all this but decided to try.

At that time, the Mits HD1000 DLP (720p) projector was getting rave reviews everywhere. I checked and double checked to make sure it would fit in my application and it did. I could have afforded a higher end projector but for a first step I felt this would give me at least an introduction. I studied screens and the light/projector relationship and settled on the 106" Carada BW (1.4 gain, or there about). I mounted on the ceiling, hooked everything up via HDMI from my Onkyo A/V receiver and my Dishtv 622, bought some nice custom made speakers from Jim Salk, Oppo DVD player, etc., etc. You get the picture. I turned everything on, did a few tweaks here and there and I was blown away! How could I have lived these many years with that dinky tv!!

Needless to say I am hooked. At my stage of life I have no intention of replacing lamps. When it goes it goes and I'll simply upgrade to the next level. That brings me here. The HD1000 has about 1200 hours on it and still looks terrific but the more I am reading about the 6500ub the more I feel this would be a significant step up. I can go two or three thousand bucks every couple years so this projector is at my price point.

My questions are first, what kind of difference do you think I'll see between the DLP Mits I have and the 6500 LCD? I know it is the age old question of two different technologies - one more film like, the other heavy with the "wow" factor. For those of you who came directly from DLP to the Epson, what were your thoughts both initially and over the course of ownership? Also, has anyone used the Carada BW screen with this projector? At night of course I can control total darkness, during the day there is no direct light but I would say 40% ambient light. I watch mostly movies and sports.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions or tips you may have in general for me. As I read this thread I know I am over my head, way over, with the technical aspects so I am really just looking for general impressions as a "next step" projector.

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post #817 of 4388 Old 01-17-2009, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miltimj View Post

Since the discussion is on brightness now, I'm curious what people think "in the real world" about how the image looks with normal ambient light. In other words, if you turned on the lights at night, or had indirect sunlight in the room, how bright is it (on whatever mode looks "best" in that situation.. Dynamic, Brightest, etc)?

If you put an LCD/plasma/CRT next to it, how does it compare?

I have been very very impressed with the light output off this unit. Somewhere in the past pages I commented that I was unable to open up the shades on my 8ft window with old pj, but with this unit, there is not problem. It does take a hit, but for sports watching, no problem at all. I threw in cronicles of riddick at 130 pm and it was watchable, more washed out looking then a bright movie, but very impressive with the shades open and sun shinning in.

At night I can turn on every light in the room 7 total and it doesn't hit it as bad as I thought it would, much better than the sun.

With the pj on dynamic it was brighter than my 40 inch backlite Sony bravia tv. I have the backlight on 6 of 10. I had both stations playing at once. It wasn't much brighter, but on a 1.0 gain 135 screen, what can you expect. WIth lights the colors don't get that washed out. On my old unit the colors faded the instant any light was turned on. My pj is uncalibrated so it is brighter than calibrated.

I will take some pictures when I get the chance.
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post #818 of 4388 Old 01-17-2009, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milacqua View Post

About a year and a half ago I entered the world of projectors. I am 60 years old and this was quite a step for me but I studied and learned about home theater at places like here at AVS. I still was not too sure about all this but decided to try.

At that time, the Mits HD1000 DLP (720p) projector was getting rave reviews everywhere. I checked and double checked to make sure it would fit in my application and it did. I could have afforded a higher end projector but for a first step I felt this would give me at least an introduction. I studied screens and the light/projector relationship and settled on the 106" Carada BW (1.4 gain, or there about). I mounted on the ceiling, hooked everything up via HDMI from my Onkyo A/V receiver and my Dishtv 622, bought some nice custom made speakers from Jim Salk, Oppo DVD player, etc., etc. You get the picture. I turned everything on, did a few tweaks here and there and I was blown away! How could I have lived these many years with that dinky tv!!

Needless to say I am hooked. At my stage of life I have no intention of replacing lamps. When it goes it goes and I'll simply upgrade to the next level. That brings me here. The HD1000 has about 1200 hours on it and still looks terrific but the more I am reading about the 6500ub the more I feel this would be a significant step up. I can go two or three thousand bucks every couple years so this projector is at my price point.

My questions are first, what kind of difference do you think I'll see between the DLP Mits I have and the 6500 LCD? I know it is the age old question of two different technologies - one more film like, the other heavy with the "wow" factor. For those of you who came directly from DLP to the Epson, what were your thoughts both initially and over the course of ownership? Also, has anyone used the Carada BW screen with this projector? At night of course I can control total darkness, during the day there is no direct light but I would say 40% ambient light. I watch mostly movies and sports.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions or tips you may have in general for me. As I read this thread I know I am over my head, way over, with the technical aspects so I am really just looking for general impressions as a "next step" projector.

I'm coming from the hd70 DLP and its a nice step up in color and brightness. I've been watching all my old movies again, and everything is better, the colors are more accurate and vibrant. I especially love the FI, but most don't. With my HD DVD movies I've noticed small details that I never noticed with the other pj such as cloths texture and poping colors. Without the FI I feel there is starting to become diminished returns on upgrading. The picture is better, no doubt about that, but is it worth spending another 3 or so grand? I'm not so sure, I guess it depends on your funds. IF you mainly watch sd movies, then the upgrade is a little better, but maybe not worth it. IF you watch blu ray movies all the time, it would be worth it in my opinion. Maybe you can find a store that has it on demo so you can see for yourself.
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post #819 of 4388 Old 01-17-2009, 12:47 PM
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For those of you who watch SD movies, try setting your dvd player to 480p instead of 1080p. I have been watching movies with 1080p and decided to see how the reon would really upscale the picture without the dvd player interfering, so I st it to 480p and turned on all the epson noise reductions, and to my surprise a huge difference in quality. I kept switching my A30 back and fourth watching the same scenes between the two resolutions and it was very clear the reon did a much better job than the anchor bay in the dvd player. If i turned off the noise reductions then they both looked on par with each other which makes sense, since the reon I believe only controls these aspects and the other processor does the scalling. However it does it, it looks much much better.

Also I've been watching HD combos comparing how they look to each other. First watching the sd side for 20-30 minutes, then watching it again with the hd side, and its a huge difference when the FI is engaged. Its like watching a completely different movie. Without FI it is still a nice upgrade, but at times I was saying to myself, yeah its better, but not alot, with FI hands down no comparison, the HD is superior. For someone like me who loves hd movies the upgrade is clear, but for my parents, they didn't see the hd movies as being that big of a step, I had to really point out the differences on some movies. Now with the FI, they are both blown away, and see how the sd looks like garbage, so maybe FI will win over people and ease the switch to blu ray.

After watching a few days now with FI on, it seems more natural looking, and not as soap operaish. There are still times where it still seems like it, but they are not as noticable as before, so I guess I've gotten used to the look.
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post #820 of 4388 Old 01-17-2009, 01:15 PM
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We've had our 6500 for a week now and I'm really impressed on how it performs with the lights on. It's way better than I expected based on what everyone was posting on here. I was getting the impression that you had to be in the bat cave or your cellar with a totally darkened room to fully appreciate it but we've been sitting there in the morning with light coming in from outside and from the kitchen behind us and the lights on in the living room reading the morning paper and watching the news or sportscenter and trust me it looks great!! I'm using the living room setting with everything set to 0 and it looks great. It does fantastic at night with the lights off and using theater black 1. I'm very impressed with it in comparison to our 60" Sony LCD RPHDTV. It has better blacks and far lass motion blur and screen dooring than our 4 year old Sony did. We have a Toshiba HD-A30 HD dvd player & Panasonic BD35 Blu Ray player & both look much better on the 106" screen than they did on our 60" LCD. Sports are just fantastic when viewed at 106" too!
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post #821 of 4388 Old 01-17-2009, 02:49 PM
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Thanks for responding guys. Yes, I do have a Blu-Ray player, the Panny 35 and I love it even though I am watching on the Mits HD1000 which is 720p. I'm glad to hear the Epson is even greater with F1. But I have a question. What exactly is F1?

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post #822 of 4388 Old 01-17-2009, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milacqua View Post

Thanks for responding guys. Yes, I do have a Blu-Ray player, the Panny 35 and I love it even though I am watching on the Mits HD1000 which is 720p. I'm glad to hear the Epson is even greater with F1. But I have a question. What exactly is F1?

F1 i the help key, but FI is frame interpolation. We can sense anywhere from 80 to 100 Hz or slightly higher for high contrast images. This is called our temporal resolution, as in our perceptual acuity of time. Since video is only 30 frames per second or 30 Hz, FI generates intermediary interpolated frames between each actual frame to increase the temporal resolution to 120 Hz which should make the video appear more real to us, although I have not seen it yet. It may not be desirable for some people because low frame rates can make video seem surreal, as 24p is still highly desirable. FI should make video appear much more fluid which would be great for a lot of things, especially animated movies or games. What would be really amazing is if 60 fps became a universal standard for recording and playback.
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post #823 of 4388 Old 01-17-2009, 04:23 PM
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Hello All
My system is Yamaha RX-V3900 , PS3, Dish VIP721, 110 (5X8 WilsonArt Designer White DIY) screen, Blue Jeans HDMI cables.

Projector just arrived the other day as I opted for Jason to perform the Lite QC service. (I would rather wait for a good unit than deal with Epson right now) My projector is perfect no bad pixels and all the test patterns and colors charts on the DVE HD Basics Blu-ray are almost perfect out of the box. I sit 3 feet directly below the projector and can barely hear the fan and do not hear the iris.

This is my first projector so I decided to go with the DIY screen and order screen samples to find the best fit for me. I also wanted to future proof my setup (ie upgrading). So no laughing, I Hillbilly'ed an adjustable ceiling mounting setup using Unistrut material and sliding nuts so I have a 36 inch fwd and sideways adjustment range. I did this so I have no lens shift right or left on this or future projectors. I went with the Chief RPA-U Mount and sloped ceiling flange CMA395. First of all the ceiling flange is built like a tank it must weigh 10 lbs and could hold a car. The projector mount is very sturdy and will pick up 4 of the 5 projector mounting holes. Lots of adjustment features with the ability to remove the projector with 4 thumb nuts. It all seems like major overkill as the mounting bolts are 4mm that go into the projector!

With no zoom the projector fills the 110 screen at exactly 11ft from front of lens to screen.

Here are a few pictures of my Redneck setup per request via PM.









From the pictures you will see that this is mounted in my living room with 5 big windows and the far side open to the dining room with skylights. Can you say AMBIENT LIGHT. I have light blocking shades on the 5 windows which does turn the room dark but the light bleed over from the dining room does not make it a bat cave. After about six hours of viewing in all configurations shades open day and night time and lights on and off I can report the following. Night time shades open or closed the picture just blows you away on Blu-ray. Daytime shades closed but light bleed over from dining room picture is still extremely good. Daytime shades half way open Very watchable in Normal mode or the high setting. Daytime shades all open and lights on you can still see the picture and it is watchable for sports and news but after I have seen what the projector can do I close the blinds and it is WOW.

Call me crazy but I bought this projector as a direct replacement for my TV. I will be using the projector 2 to 6 hours per day and am glad the lamp is rated for 4000 hours as I could be one of the first users to burn one up.

My receiver has the Anchor Bay progressive reprocessing chip like the Edge I believe so it does clean up my Dish picture some. Dish TV is very watchable on the 110 screen for me but some may find it a little screen doorish. This should go away when I upgrade to the new Dish HD VIP922 which should be released in a couple of months. Regular DVD viewing is good to very good, and of course Blu-ray is unreal.

I played 1 hour with my PS3 and Baja Edge of Control and found no delay problems at all. The picture was perfect and I will never be able to play on a TV again as it feels like you really are there.

FI was interesting and found it ok on the Cars Blu-ray but everything else I did not like. I really do not understand all the uproar on this item as the projector does not even need this feature from what I have seen. Think of it as a movie trailer of what is to come in the future ; ).

So here is my 2 cents take it for what it is, your average 6 years of college with only a 2 year degree Redneck Trailer Trash user! Yes I do have three Camaros two 68 and one 69 and my trusty Bull Mastiff guard dog KUJO.

Lastly thanks to Peter in Japan for the first reviews and Rwestley for this thread and the calibration thread and bachusTheOld for some humor from time to time.

Time for me and Daisy to watch some more Videoooooo's after I get my prying bar. (Simpsons ref Lol)
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post #824 of 4388 Old 01-17-2009, 04:37 PM
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i was thinking about a 133'' screen what gain should it be, my walls are pretty dark and it is completely light controlled, also it will be as close as possible to the screen, thanks.
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post #825 of 4388 Old 01-17-2009, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by battle7 View Post

i was thinking about a 133'' screen what gain should it be, my walls are pretty dark and it is completely light controlled, also it will be as close as possible to the screen, thanks.

If you are really concerned about an image with proper colors and good gray scale then a calibrated 6500UB in its best cinema mode will give you about 600 lumens out with a new bulb. In order to use a 133" screen it better be high gain with something approaching a gain of 2. I'm using a 120" 1.4 gain screen and I wouldn't want to go any larger than that unless I had a higher gain screen (I have a fully light controlled room with a black ceiling and dark walls). Of course the 6500UB does have several brighter modes, but you give up color accuracy and gray scale tracking in order to get those additional lumens out of the projector (some people may find that acceptable, especially for non-critical viewing, eg. sports).

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post #826 of 4388 Old 01-17-2009, 06:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by battle7 View Post

i was thinking about a 133'' screen what gain should it be, my walls are pretty dark and it is completely light controlled, also it will be as close as possible to the screen, thanks.

I've got a 1.16 gain 126" 16:9 SeymourAV screen. I currently use it with a 1080UB on Theater Black 1 with Brightness Control set to Low, in a room with white walls and ceiling. With this setup, the brightness is more than adequate.
I'll be upgrading to a 6500UB (if Epson can ever supply me with one that isn't defective), but not out of any necessity.
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post #827 of 4388 Old 01-17-2009, 07:10 PM
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http://www.google.com/translate?u=ht...&hl=fr&ie=UTF8

Just a note for you guys. I have the 1080UB, and have done extensive calibration of it and have found that Natural mode has the most accurate colors, hands down. I also notice that in the big demonstraion of the 7500UB (link above), that Natural mode was used as well. Even in the product manual it states that natural mode is for the most accurate colors, and they are correct. I was trying over and over again to get a good calibration in one of the Theater modes (which correlate to your Cinema, HD, and silver screen modes), but blue and red had issues. Not so with Natural, and I tried all the color modes.

A lot of reviewers don't have 40+ hours to spend calibrating the projectors for their reviews, so they go with modes that seem to be the right choice, either by other reviews or word of mouth from sources like forums...

My suggestion is to start with Natural mode and work from there.

Dan
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post #828 of 4388 Old 01-18-2009, 04:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avmjt View Post

F1 i the help key, but FI is frame interpolation. We can sense anywhere from 80 to 100 Hz or slightly higher for high contrast images. This is called our temporal resolution, as in our perceptual acuity of time. Since video is only 30 frames per second or 30 Hz, FI generates intermediary interpolated frames between each actual frame to increase the temporal resolution to 120 Hz which should make the video appear more real to us, although I have not seen it yet. It may not be desirable for some people because low frame rates can make video seem surreal, as 24p is still highly desirable. FI should make video appear much more fluid which would be great for a lot of things, especially animated movies or games. What would be really amazing is if 60 fps became a universal standard for recording and playback.

I see, it is FI not F1. Thanks for the explanation of what this is. I've been reviewing some sites recently where they test projectors and one reviewer said Epson has issues with frame interpolation (at least I think that is what he was talking about). In fact, one review I read said the reviewer sat down with Epson officials and techs at the recent CES show and the agreed there were problems. I don't understand this, beyond what you have explained, but I think the reviewer said don't even fool with this factor. I'm also not sure I can picture the "fluid" reference. Does this mean without FI, the movie might look "jerky"?

shortspark
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post #829 of 4388 Old 01-18-2009, 05:27 AM
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Quote:


I'm also not sure I can picture the "fluid" reference. Does this mean without FI, the movie might look "jerky"?

The movie will look like a movie, more like what you would see in the theater. The frame interpolation provides an interesting effect, almost like looking through a window, not watching a movie. The next time you go to a store that sells LCD TVs, take a look at a movie playing on one of the higher-end models with 120Hz capability.

If you don't want to use frame interpolation, you should be able to use this projector just fine while watching 24fps material; just turn off FI and 4:4 pulldown. The problem is that a lot of people like the effect of frame interpolation and would like to be able to use it with this projector.
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post #830 of 4388 Old 01-18-2009, 06:20 AM
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I have a question about the use of the dynamic iris in general. I have been doing a lot of calibrating lately with the Eye-One LT and HCFR and been doing a lot of reading. A lot of people on here are talking about the noise of the dynamic iris. From what I have read and been told, when the dynamic iris is on, it ruins your greyscale and gamma (check out my thread here and scroll towards the bottom: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1105325). So why are so many people using it?
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post #831 of 4388 Old 01-18-2009, 08:39 AM
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I'm thinking of ordering the 6500 and want to do it through one of our sponsors. I've been to a couple websites listed above at the top of the forum page but when I try AVS store and click on Epson in their projector products, it takes me to the Epson website. I don't know which sponsor I'll order from but how does one even begin to place an order from the AVS store?

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post #832 of 4388 Old 01-18-2009, 08:54 AM
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Call them on the phone. Jason will take your order in person. Contact number at top of site. Service is excellent!
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post #833 of 4388 Old 01-18-2009, 08:56 AM
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Go to the AVS store and call Jason at the number listed under contacts. That's what I did to get my 6500ub. Whoops, beat me to it.
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post #834 of 4388 Old 01-18-2009, 09:06 AM
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Thanks guys, I'll give Jason a call tomorrow. Someone earlier in this thread said AVS does a "quality" check of the projector. Does anyone know what that means? I'd like to know before I call him so he'll think I know what in the devil I'm talking about.

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post #835 of 4388 Old 01-18-2009, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnDW View Post

when I get into the aspect ration control submenu, I cant scroll through it - it stays on normal (it looks like the correct aspect for the Blu-ray i am playing) but I want to set to auto -any suggestions/thoughts ?

If your intention is to zoom the picture so as to reduce or eliminate the black bars on a 2.35:1 aspect movie when using a 16:9 screen, you would have to use an external video processor - such as the DVDO Edge. And this behavior is not unique to the 6500UB, as none of the current 1080 projectors I am familiar with will zoom a high def signal.
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post #836 of 4388 Old 01-18-2009, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Dibenzylacetone View Post

If your intention is to zoom the picture so as to reduce or eliminate the black bars on a 2.35:1 aspect movie when using a 16:9 screen, you would have to use an external video processor - such as the DVDO Edge. And this behavior is not unique to the 6500UB, as none of the current 1080 projectors I am familiar with will zoom a high def signal.

Correct. I have a Mits HD1000 720 DLP (soon to upgrade to the Epson 6500) and it does the same thing. If you use HDMI, the zoom type features are disabled.

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post #837 of 4388 Old 01-18-2009, 10:25 AM
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Projectorcentral seems to be having all kinds of problems with getting its Epson 6500 review finished. It is on its second unit and if I can read between the lines it seems they had a major issue with the first unit which has carried over to the second unit, which isn't related to FI.
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post #838 of 4388 Old 01-18-2009, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Inconceivable! View Post

Hello All
My system is Yamaha RX-V3900 , PS3, Dish VIP721, 110 (5X8 WilsonArt Designer White DIY) screen, Blue Jeans HDMI cables.

How do you like the Designer White/6500 combo? I'm thinking of getting a sheet, and painting Black Widow on the back for a reversible screen.

Rob
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post #839 of 4388 Old 01-18-2009, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by relder View Post

How do you like the Designer White/6500 combo? I'm thinking of getting a sheet, and painting Black Widow on the back for a reversible screen.

Rob

I am on day three of using my projector and the picture is incredible. My intent was to use the WilsonArt as a baseline and then order screen samples ,as I have a huge ambient light problem!

I think I may not even bother with any other screens for now as the picture is great even with ambient light.

I have already had to clean the screen because of my darn cat and his dirty paws. I used windex and it cleaned up quickly. Another reason to stay cheap and damage proof. I wanted a pull down screen so it could be hid but I have some ideas on how to install curtains so it is not an eye sore when not in use.

I am not sure how you would make this reversable as it needs some backing and is awkward to move due to size. I will ponder this as it would be fun to have a picture on one side and screen on the other. Hmmmm Glue to 5 X 8 sheet of Lexan say 3/16 thick and make alum tracks to slide the screen into from the side, could almost be a one person job. You may be on to something here........ Post a result if you make it work.
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post #840 of 4388 Old 01-18-2009, 02:41 PM
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another DW screen owner here at 115". Love it paired with the 6500.
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