Official epson 6500ub owners thread - Page 34 - AVS Forum
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post #991 of 4387 Old 01-23-2009, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d james View Post

If you make the screen real large, the bigger the better so the pixels are bigger, then adjust focus and bring up the menu on the pj and look at the words with your nose to the screen you should see all white words, but if its off a pixel or two, then you'll see red or green on the outside pixels that make up the words. On my last pj I could clearly see it off from 6 ft or less with my comcast menu bar up. With this pj I cannot, but can see them with the pj menu. If I zoom the pj down to around 70 inch screen, it is real hard to notice the color variation in the pixels. Like i say its not something to be worried about unless you see it in movies, and since I watch alot of black and whites, I can see the green tint.
I'm not sure if these are two seperate problems (color uniformity, and convergence) or if they are the same. All I know is the off pixels seem to correlate with the green tint. My double pixel off unit had more green tint than my now one green pixel off pj.


Thank you for the reply, good info.

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post #992 of 4387 Old 01-23-2009, 02:34 PM
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I like the "1" setting for contrast enhancement as well. Seems to add just a touch of depth to the darkest areas without sacrificing brightness
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post #993 of 4387 Old 01-23-2009, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenix96 View Post

Well, I've finally received my replacement 6500UB. The good news is that this one does not have a locked focus ring. Here are some of my notes after a little bit of use:
  • The packing was atrocious. The box these projectors come in is terrible to start with - virtually no padding at all. But my replacement projector was shipped in only its original box (not within a larger box with padding material). It's no wonder that these projectors have problems like poor convergence and locked focus rings. I've had $100 DVD players that were packed with more care.
    What's even worse is that it was not shipped with a signature requirement. That meant that I may have had a box with "EPSON POWERLITE HOME CINEMA" and a picture of a projector on it sitting on my porch for up ~7 hours that day for anyone to see!
  • This projector is noticeably brighter in all color modes than my 1080UB. This is probably mostly because the year-old 1080UB has about 2000 hours on it, however.
  • The contrast improvement (with iris off) is not particularly noticeable. I wouldn't say it's a big jump over the 1080UB.
  • The difference in "daylight" brightness is noticeable, however. Using it in the living room in the middle of the day today, I opened up all the shades to let as much light in as I could. With the projector on Dynamic, everything was still perfectly visible (although obviously with a big hit to black levels). It's better than the 1080UB ever was in that regard.
  • The fan on high brightness is slightly quieter than the 1080UB's.
  • Frame Interpolation seems to me to be a mostly-useless gimmick at this point. We watched parts of a 24p Blu-Ray, a SD-DVD TV show, and some video games (Halo 3) and the consensus was that it just doesn't look right (it "cheapens" the look). For gaming, it was an interesting effect, but completely inconsistent - it would be incredibly smooth for a few seconds and then become irritatingly choppy when the player began moving in a different direction.
    FI is going to be staying off for us. I can see how it might be desirable for sports, however.

I haven't used it enough to see if I have the drifting focus problem, and I need to inspect more closely for convergence or uniformity issues. It looks good right now, though!

Some more notes after a few hours of use:
  • This projector is bright. I've seen some people say it's not practical to stretch an image from it over more than ~110", but on my 126.2" screen in Theater Black 1 and with brightness control set to low, I can't imagine it being any brighter.
  • FI is useless. I don't see any problems with artifacting (other than the jitteriness in FPS games) but the effect it creates is just undesirable to myself and everyone else who has seen it here. It's not really a matter of it looking smoother and more realistic, either. With 24p movies, it creates a weird unnatural motion, almost as if the video has been sped-up.
  • The 6500UB's IR commands must be the same as the 1080UB's, because my existing Harmony remote setup worked right away. It didn't turn off the projector successfully, however. I replaced the 1080UB with the 6500UB in the Harmony configuration, and it now works fine.
  • Handshaking takes a lot longer than on the 1080UB... I haven't timed it, but it feels like maybe 3 times as long. Not important enough to be a major problem, but still an irritation.
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post #994 of 4387 Old 01-23-2009, 07:00 PM
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Evan posted an update today on the 6500UB and 6100 focus issue.

He has been putting the units through a series of power up and down cycles and has put some hours on the projectors, but quote: "So far we are not seeing any significant mitigation of the problem."

He also retested the BenQ W20000, Panny AE3000, Sanyo Z3000 and the Mits HC6500 to see if they remained in focus. The BenQ, the Panny and the Mits remained in perfect focus, while the Sanyo shifted just a hair from perfect. Quote: " So the bottom line is that none of these projectors have any tendency to defocus in the manner we are seeing on the Epson models. "

He's asking for input from owners of these projectors, either good or bad. Well worth your time, IMO.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/proj...news071808.htm
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post #995 of 4387 Old 01-23-2009, 07:36 PM
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What happens if you just focus it after the warm up period instead of right after it gets turned on?

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post #996 of 4387 Old 01-23-2009, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d james View Post

For those interested in epsons brightness and can't see it in person before buying, I've taken a few screenshots of the 6500ub on 135 inch 1.0 gain screen, in its brightest modes (living room, dynamic) next to my 40 inch LCD playing the same scene. both were shooting SD broadcast, so it doesn't show its sharpness, more of a light comparison because on dynamic mode the pj was just slightly brighter than the tv, with its backlight up all the way. I have some pics with all the lights on and also with a 75 watt lamp in front to demonstrate how it can handle the light, even though this is not something someone would do when watching tv. I have a couple showing my old hd70 and how poorly it looked (brightness) to tv.
http://s179.photobucket.com/albums/w...pson%206500ub/ At first I took pictures with pj on default setting, then adjusted them to look the same as tv, so thats why some of the colors are different from some pics

When I get a chance I wil take some daytime photos as well, with the light shining through

Wow. These are really impressive pictures that demonstrate how awesome the 200W super bulb of the epson can light up a big screen. Can you watch your big screen in Theater Black 1 that bright for several movies without your eyes getting tired? that's a lot of light coming off your screen, have you measured the ft.lamberts?
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post #997 of 4387 Old 01-24-2009, 01:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by godawg View Post

I did get it to finally accept the 1920x1080 resolution from the xbox but when I go into the 6500 information screen the projector is displaying a lower resolution as Phoenix96 stated.

thats really strange cause on mine it says 1920 x 1080 on both the xbox and under info screen under resolution. I haven't checked the manual, but it looks like it does support the higher resolution, unless its because there are different firmwares?
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post #998 of 4387 Old 01-24-2009, 01:46 AM
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With all my units I was playing with the 1080 24p setting. On all my units it was unplayable with the FI and without FI with regular SD dvds and esepecially HD dvds. Matter of fact SD dvds had a strange glitch where every second or so the frame would stutter causing the whole picture to jump around with or without FI. When I would put it on 60i it was fine.

The framerate on the info screen said 23.97 hz. I just tryed it with my newer replacement unit on 24p with HD dvds and to my surprise they played just fine, as though it was set to 60i, the glitches were gone, so I really took notice to this. I tryed SD movies and its the same thing, it works just as 60i has worked. I still do see a slight halo on moving objects but 24p works fine with FI on. I looked at the info setting for refresh rate and it says 24.01 with this unit instead of the 23.97. Would this cause it to play correctly? Why were the other units different? i tryed many dvds and HD DVDs and they all stayed at 24.01. I wonder if this is a different firmware unit? What are you guys finding with your units?
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post #999 of 4387 Old 01-24-2009, 02:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomcreek View Post

Wow. These are really impressive pictures that demonstrate how awesome the 200W super bulb of the epson can light up a big screen. Can you watch your big screen in Theater Black 1 that bright for several movies without your eyes getting tired? that's a lot of light coming off your screen, have you measured the ft.lamberts?

Yeah I am very impressed with the light output and its obviously hard to understand without seeing pictures of it or in person. I took a couple of pictures with it on theater black 1 and its not as bright of course since these were of the higher setting. It is still plenty bright and my eyes don't tire on that setting. I've been playing with the brightness control and I like it around -5 to -10 depending on the brightness of the movie, and its still bright enough with great dark blacks. However I tryed watching it on living room for a while with movies and tv, and it definitly was hurtung my eyes, I had to turn it down to theater. I can only watch those real bright modes for a little while, unless its in the daytime.
As you can see from the pics, the color is still pretty good for such a bright mode. With my HD70 the colors would become very faded almost all white with lights on or daytime. I had no idea what I was missing, its a very big difference between the two pjs. I don't have any way to test the ft lamberts, I wish I did. I threw my da lite HP sample up there to see in comparison how the extra gain would look since my pj is mounted eye level, and the text on the menu can just about burn your eyes out they glow so bright. I wish I had one of those screens so I could freak people out and tell them its a giant LCD tv
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post #1000 of 4387 Old 01-24-2009, 03:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elkhunter View Post

Evan posted an update today on the 6500UB and 6100 focus issue.

He has been putting the units through a series of power up and down cycles and has put some hours on the projectors, but quote: "So far we are not seeing any significant mitigation of the problem."

He also retested the BenQ W20000, Panny AE3000, Sanyo Z3000 and the Mits HC6500 to see if they remained in focus. The BenQ, the Panny and the Mits remained in perfect focus, while the Sanyo shifted just a hair from perfect. Quote: " So the bottom line is that none of these projectors have any tendency to defocus in the manner we are seeing on the Epson models. "

He's asking for input from owners of these projectors, either good or bad. Well worth your time, IMO.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/proj...news071808.htm

According to UPS tracking information, I should receive my 6500 from AVS on Monday. I had Jason do the Quality Check thing so I hope he looked at my unit's focus but I'm not sure if the in focus/out focus is part of the check. Anyway, from what Evan says, this particular problem seems to be on a unit by unit basis. That tells me Epson put things together using their technological knowledge but haphazardly as far as the actual manufacturing process is concerned. To top it all off, there appears to be no quality review or even quality standards applied to the product. Boy, now I'm having doubts about this purchase as the issues keep multiplying. For those lucky enough to have a perfect unit I'm sure the picture is great and with no problems but the chances of getting such a unit seem slight.

What concerns me is that Epson is taking the position that a "break-in" of the projector will solve the problem. What is their basis for that? Do they really know then what the cause is? If so, why was it not caught before issue. Surely they had beta testing. Evan's testing has shown that with a number of hours on his units the out of focus issue remains. What does Epson know they are not telling us? If they believe the problem will be resolved by waiting, how long then is this "break-in" period suppose to last.

There is no way I will tolerate a projector getting out of focus. Even if I did not mind, I would need to pull out a ladder each time I wanted to adjust it and I won't do that. Once I turn it on if it does not stay in focus until the time I shut it off, it is going back.

shortspark
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post #1001 of 4387 Old 01-24-2009, 04:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d james View Post

thats really strange cause on mine it says 1920 x 1080 on both the xbox and under info screen under resolution. I haven't checked the manual, but it looks like it does support the higher resolution, unless its because there are different firmwares?

My bad. I had accidentally selected whatever the resolution is on the xbox just before the 1920x1080. Once I selected the correct resolution on the xbox the projector info screen did say 1920x1080. One thing I found was that I had the xbox going through a vga switch so I could also use my computer. I had to take the switch out of the equation to get the projector to accept the 1920x 1080 resolution.
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post #1002 of 4387 Old 01-24-2009, 05:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emptychair View Post

What happens if you just focus it after the warm up period instead of right after it gets turned on?

That approach works just fine with my 6500UB. I focused the projector after it was fully warmed up (30+ minutes after turn-on) then later checked it as it came up from a cold start. I checked the focus after about 5 minutes and there was a very slight defocus as compared to the fully warmed up focus. Individual square pixels can still be seen up close to the screen at the 5 minute mark, but you can tell their edges are not quite as well defined as they appear after 30 minutes or more. Bottom line is its not a real issue on my 6500UB. My projector is ceiling mounted, using high lamp mode and my zoom setting is toward the wider angle side of the zoom range (i.e., toward the shorter throw end of the available range). Any of these 3 factors/settings may have (or not have) an impact on the amount of thermal related defocusing the 6500UB is producing.

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post #1003 of 4387 Old 01-24-2009, 07:46 AM
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Does Epson pay for shipping bothways for service replacements while their projectors are under warranty? I want to pull the trigger on the Epson, but I don't want to rack up huge shipping bills trying to get a good unit.
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post #1004 of 4387 Old 01-24-2009, 07:51 AM
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Sounds like focusing after the warm up period is the simple way around this...

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post #1005 of 4387 Old 01-24-2009, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emptychair View Post

Sounds like focusing after the warm up period is the simple way around this...

I'm not an owner, but from what I've read, the warm up period is about 20 to 30 minutes. Not many folks want to fire up their projector and then walk away for 20 min while it sorts itself out. 5 min might be tolerable, but 20 min (or more) is not.

And since other projectors don't have this issue, it is IMHO something that can be avoided in the design, and hence should be correctable in production now.

AFAIK,

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post #1006 of 4387 Old 01-24-2009, 09:52 AM
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Good point, epsecially if it does take 20-30min to get into focus.

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post #1007 of 4387 Old 01-24-2009, 10:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Check out the 6500-7500 Calibration thread. It has been reported that there are new firmwares available for both units. To find out what firmware you have do the following:
"To check your firmware version, while the projector is on, HOLD the menu button for at LEAST 10 second, release, and then within four seconds, press (sequentially) ESC - ESC - RIGHT ARROW - LEFT ARROW. This is trickier than it sounds, and sometimes take me several attempts to get the service menu to come up. Toward the bottom will be a long number beginning with P - the last three digits indicate your firmware."
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post #1008 of 4387 Old 01-24-2009, 11:17 AM
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Hi all,

For regular DVDs I'm feeding the PJ via an HTPC. It's currently outputting 1080p 60 Hz.

And the picture looks like crap (filled with all sorts of artifacts).

In the signal menu I am able to control FI (on, off, etc) but 4:4 is grayed out and is listed as 'on'. As we've figured out 4:4 is for 1080p24 from blu-ray, but for some reason it looks like it's being forced on for my regular DVDs

Any ideas on how I can turn 4:4 off???

Thanks!
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post #1009 of 4387 Old 01-24-2009, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwestley View Post

Check out the 6500-7500 Calibration thread. It has been reported that there are new firmwares available for both units. To find out what firmware you have do the following:
"To check your firmware version, while the projector is on, HOLD the menu button for at LEAST 10 second, release, and then within four seconds, press (sequentially) ESC - ESC - RIGHT ARROW - LEFT ARROW. This is trickier than it sounds, and sometimes take me several attempts to get the service menu to come up. Toward the bottom will be a long number beginning with P - the last three digits indicate your firmware."

Thanks rwestly, thats good to know.
I wonder how firmware will be updated....shipped back to Epson?
Just means more of a chance for projector to be thrown around in transit.
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post #1010 of 4387 Old 01-24-2009, 12:05 PM - Thread Starter
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According to the post in the calibration thread the firmware will be available through authorized dealers and service centers. I doubt if they will let individuals do the update themselves. Could some post their firmware version and what else is in the service menu.
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post #1011 of 4387 Old 01-24-2009, 12:11 PM
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Can someone tell me how long the power cord is for the 6500?

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post #1012 of 4387 Old 01-24-2009, 12:15 PM
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This is my first projector and I'd like to do a ceiling mount. How hard is this to do yourself? I'm a little scared to put up a 3k projector on a mount that I did myself. how expensive is it for a pro to come and put the mount up? How hard is it to find someone who can do the work?
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post #1013 of 4387 Old 01-24-2009, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superfish View Post

This is my first projector and I'd like to do a ceiling mount. How hard is this to do yourself? I'm a little scared to put up a 3k projector on a mount that I did myself. how expensive is it for a pro to come and put the mount up? How hard is it to find someone who can do the work?

Not hard at all, as long as you find the stud
As far as having a "pro" come to your house and install the projector; I know someone had it done for $600. And that was just mounting the mount and projector, no wiring, no cables.
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post #1014 of 4387 Old 01-24-2009, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwestley View Post

According to the post in the calibration thread the firmware will be available through authorized dealers and service centers. I doubt if they will let individuals do the update themselves. Could some post their firmware version and what else is in the service menu.

Thanks for the info, I will check it out. If you saw my previous post, I suspect that there are different firmwares as my previous pjs had 23.97 refresh rate, wher the new one has 24.01and seems to work fine with 1080 24p, whereas the other number didn't.
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post #1015 of 4387 Old 01-24-2009, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d james View Post

For those interested in epsons brightness and can't see it in person before buying, I've taken a few screenshots of the 6500ub on 135 inch 1.0 gain screen, in its brightest modes (living room, dynamic) next to my 40 inch LCD playing the same scene. both were shooting SD broadcast, so it doesn't show its sharpness, more of a light comparison because on dynamic mode the pj was just slightly brighter than the tv, with its backlight up all the way. I have some pics with all the lights on and also with a 75 watt lamp in front to demonstrate how it can handle the light, even though this is not something someone would do when watching tv. I have a couple showing my old hd70 and how poorly it looked (brightness) to tv.
http://s179.photobucket.com/albums/w...pson%206500ub/ At first I took pictures with pj on default setting, then adjusted them to look the same as tv, so thats why some of the colors are different from some pics

Did you use manual settings on your camera when taking these shots, to ensure there's nothing auto-adjusting exposure, etc?
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post #1016 of 4387 Old 01-24-2009, 02:07 PM
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Hi Everyone!

Well I took the plunge and purchased the Epson 6500UB!!! It arrives on Monday! It is replacing my SP7210....anxious to see how this baby performs! I'll keep my fingers crossed that there are no problems!

Regards,

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post #1017 of 4387 Old 01-24-2009, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miltimj View Post

Did you use manual settings on your camera when taking these shots, to ensure there's nothing auto-adjusting exposure, etc?

My camera was set to manual, but its a video camera so I can't adjust to much, its either adjustable aperture or shutter. I tryed both and didn't seem to get to much variation. Any suggestions on what settings would be best to compare, I'm no expert on which settings are best? There is a trick to locking both adjustments at once, but I didn't do it with these pics because I wasn't sure which two values would've been best.
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post #1018 of 4387 Old 01-24-2009, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkuster View Post

Hi all,

For regular DVDs I'm feeding the PJ via an HTPC. It's currently outputting 1080p 60 Hz.

And the picture looks like crap (filled with all sorts of artifacts).

In the signal menu I am able to control FI (on, off, etc) but 4:4 is grayed out and is listed as 'on'. As we've figured out 4:4 is for 1080p24 from blu-ray, but for some reason it looks like it's being forced on for my regular DVDs

Any ideas on how I can turn 4:4 off???

Thanks!

Not sure if this will help, but on my HD DVD A30 I had to turn off FI then go into menu on dvd player and set the output to 480p then play a dvd which shows the 4:4 ungreyed and FI engaged, then turned FI off and 4:4 off and then went back and reset to 1080 output which showed 4:4 off for both dvd and HD dvds. I had to do it a couple of times with one unit I had in order for it to work, but it seems like the only way to turn i off on my player is setting the output down to 480p, I don't know why, but you can see if that does the trick.
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post #1019 of 4387 Old 01-24-2009, 02:20 PM
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Can someone tell me how long the power cord is for the 6500?

I had to keep one end pluged in while I held it out streched, so it might be an inch longer, but I recorded 106 inches, which I think was 8' 10 inches. Much longer than I thought it would be.
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post #1020 of 4387 Old 01-24-2009, 02:30 PM
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I had to keep one end pluged in while I held it out streched, so it might be an inch longer, but I recorded 106 inches, which I think was 8' 10 inches. Much longer than I thought it would be.

Thanks. That will work out perfect!

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