Official epson 6500ub owners thread - Page 5 - AVS Forum
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post #121 of 4382 Old 12-26-2008, 03:17 PM
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Could a few people who are definitely seeing the issues Art has suggested with 4:4 enabled, or with FI in use on 24p signals please tell me exactly the time stamps of scenes on either Dark Knight or Casino Royale where it is so obvious? I just watched Dark Knight and IronMan this week and don't recall observing any "obvious" issues and I am pretty certain I was operating in 4:4 enabled and FI in grayed out "normal" (per Art's vernacular). I have gone back and watched a little bit of the very first 2 minutes of Dark Knight to see if I notice anything odd, and I can't say that I have yet. The only thing I think I did observe differently was some judder on the downtown skyline initial pan in scene of Dark Knight when I disabled both 4:4 and FI. This would be consistent with 3:2 judder on a 24p signal I believe. I am just trying to see if I can duplicate the observation of some others in my setup that includes a Panasonic BD-35K
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post #122 of 4382 Old 12-26-2008, 03:24 PM
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Here are some screenshots, the camera captured the pictures slightly brighter than what it actually is in the theater. This is a temporary set-up just to make sure the PJ worked and there wasn't any dead pixels. The screen is a big panel of styrofoam thats going to be used for a diffusor panel later. The image here is about 6-7ft wide, PS3 -> Onkyo 805 ->PJ

The screen really sucks and is temporary for testing, it is slanted backwards so it does affect shape of image.






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post #123 of 4382 Old 12-26-2008, 04:51 PM
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Hi all,

First I just want to say Happy Holidays to my fellow AVS members. I ordered an Epson 6500 ub from xxxxx last Monday and had it shipped next day air so it will be on time for our Christmas celebration. Unfortunately it was not delivered until Friday around 3:00pm. But the biggest disappointment to me was the packaging. The projector was just inside a 25x25x23 box. With very minimal or non existant packaging at all. I ordered a Panasonic ae3000 from them and it was double boxed and their was an official panasonic box with packing foam. This Epson was so unprofesionally packaged it looks like they just took a projector put a couple of cardboard buffers and shipped it. I am really so disappointed that I have not even turned on the projectors. Have any of the guys that received their Epson received their projectror packaged the same way? I'm just curious because I cannot believe Epson can't even package their product properly. http://www.flickr.com/photos/em1/313...n/photostream/
The white thing at the bottom is the projector. Another photo after I took the top carboards off. http://www.flickr.com/photos/em1/313...n/photostream/
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post #124 of 4382 Old 12-26-2008, 05:02 PM
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Thanks for the heads up Chris. Are you saying your projector came in the same way?
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post #125 of 4382 Old 12-26-2008, 07:10 PM
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I'm very interested in exactly what is happening with 4:4 pulldown on this projector, and why Art seems to think it is so "off". I'm really confused as to what the difference between "regular" frame insertion and "creative" frame insertion is. Is the former just frame copying? Wouldn't most projectors be doing that any way for 24 fps sources at a 2:2 pulldown?

It would be weird for Epson to not implement "4:4" as a straight orig frame plus 3 copies for 96 Hz refresh, vs "regular" 24fps support (which is what, 2:2?). But then Samsung implemented a frame interpolation scheme on the 71 series LCDTVs that was still engaged mildly even when switched "off". They fixed that in a firmware update, thankfully.

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post #126 of 4382 Old 12-26-2008, 10:35 PM
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Glad I found this site! Looks like some great info here.
I've had my 6500UB up for 3 days. Some room details:

18x25 Foot, dedicated theater, 9 ft. ceiling, soundproofed, 12 ft to first row, 19 to raised second, and 133in. Da-lite Silver HC screen. PS3 is primary DVD source. Dark walls, and ceiling. IE, pitch black if wanted in the middle of the day.

I replaced a Optima HD80 with the 6500UB. I thought the HD80 looked pretty darn good. That was until I installed the 6500UB. WOW! What a difference! It's everything others have mentioned here. "Pop" seems to be a great single word to describe the images. It is SO much more vivid than my previous PJ, with Black Scale, and contrast, that the HD80 never approached. And the depth is breathtaking. That said, as others have noted it certainly does not have the "film" look that I had gotten used too with my Optima. Granted, I haven't made a single adjustment to it yet, other than playing with various pre-programed modes.

I used the same mount as the Optima, and had it dialed in way faster due to the ability to adjust more than the Optima was capable of. And with much better range of adjustment to boot. I could never go back.

For those of you who mentioned poor packaging, I can't say mine appeared to be anything to write home about, but you seem to show yours in a moving companies box. Mine came in a very nice Epson box, and was well sorted. I hadn't given it a second thought, other than it was mentioned here. I did note that the manual references some Color Mode options that are not on the projector. (HD, Silver Screen, ect.) Perhaps the price of being an early adoptor? Minor detail anyway.

The manual also says that X.V. Color gives the most "natural color reproduction when viewing movies through HDMI." I call BS. I think this mode looks like total crap. (Is that too honest for this site?) Seriously, the color is the WORST on this mode. I've tried it on a few Blueray's and it's the same. Big deal, the others look killer! Vivid is too much in my theater, but I would imagine excellent in a room with less lighting controls. So far I'm leaning toward natural, and Theater Dark 1. Once I've put a few more movies through it I will start making adjustments.

I am also very interested in all the NASA level geek speak I'm reading on this site about 4x4's and interwhatever. Since my Optima never had these options, and I'm a newbie to this stuff, It's going to be entertaining to sit back and learn from many of you. I had already messed around a bit with the 24fs on my PS3 to see if that brought a bit more "film" feel to the picture. I also have been beating my head a little trying to figure out how to turn off (and on) the inter, and 4by options mention here. For a simple person, it's not a simple as it should be. Still haven't figured that one out entirely. All that said, I keep getting engaged in the picture, and I end up sitting back and just watching rather than making many adjustments. I'm sure with a little tweeking, I will get a bit more "Film" and still have the depth, and image that is better than I could have imagined. (House of Flying Daggers on BluRay is not to be missed.)

Bottom Line, even if I had to watch it "Stock" this projector blows my HD80 out of the water. I can't wait to dial it in a bit more. Opps. I meant calibrate it.
Okay, enough of this off to watch another movie....

Cheers!
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post #127 of 4382 Old 12-26-2008, 10:43 PM
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I have been looking to see if I can detect the same behavior Art is sharing on FI and 4:4 and I have so far failed with my Panny BD-35K. I am using Dark Knight and some specific scenes Art mentioned whereby he observed the issues with his PS3. Here is my summary, but before you read, keep in mind that I have not spent as much time as Art on this issue, and I am not nearly as knowledgeable as he is overall in review...

First, playing Black Knight with 24p enabled on BD-35K, Info screen on PJ stated 1080p resolution and 29.97 Hz, found that the Pulldown defaulted to 4:4 “On” and FI grayed out in “normal” selection. The inference is, that unless you disable the automatic engagement of 4:4 for 1808p 24fps source material, FI is not engaged. If you disable the 4:4, then you will be able to enact any of the FI modes. Now, as to differences in performance between these (i.e. 4:4 conventional or the vaious FI modes) frankly, I see no issues and have not detected a big performance difference between any.....but I am sure it exists or can be found by those who study this closer than I.

Second, playing Black Knight with 24p disabled on BD-35K, Info screen on PJ stated 1080p resolution and 59.94 Hz, now the default was for the 4:4 Pulldown to be “Grayed out” in the “on” setting and FI active in the “normal” setting. Tried same scenes with FI in “normal” “off” “low” and “high” …no matter which of these selections, could never enable 4:4 since it was grayed out throughout all of these efforts. The inference is that there was no way to engage 4:4 at all for this movie when the 24p was "disabled in the player, thus forcing output at 60Hz. Notice, throughout I was unable to replicate the extreme jerkiness or a real pronounced change in video vs. film-like

Last, Dish Network NBA HDTV Bcast from VIP 622, receiver set to output 1080i. Info screen on PJ stated 1920x1080 resolution and 59.94 Hz, defaulted to 4:4 off and FI on "normal". For all FI selections it appeared to work fine at first glance with no terrible movement or artifacts. Now, however, is when I WAS able to replicate some of what Art noticed. That is, when I enabled 4:4 I immediately got a very herky jerky outcome that was basicly unwatchab.e (independent of the FI mode I was in as I tried it with all of those at one time or another)
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post #128 of 4382 Old 12-27-2008, 03:08 AM - Thread Starter
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eme1, was the projector in an Epson box? If not it seems that your source repackaged the projector. Your pictures did not show an Epson Box. The specifications for the shipping box from Epson are 23.7x18.1x11.3. Your box was much larger. I am wondering if you got an open box unit. I would contact the dealer from whom you bought it.
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post #129 of 4382 Old 12-27-2008, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwestley View Post

eme1, was the projector in an Epson box? If not it seems that your source repackaged the projector. Your pictures did not show an Epson Box. The specifications for the shipping box from Epson are 23.7x18.1x11.3. Your box was much larger. I am wondering if you got an open box unit. I would contact the dealer from whom you bought it.

rwestley...The projector was not in an Epson box. It was just in a big box and it was just lose inside the box. My luck has been really bad with projectors lately. Anyway I was just wondering if anyone else received theirs the same way. I know some people will say I am just being too picky, but I really feel insulted for receiving a product packaged this way when I paid full retail price from a highly respected vendor. I wish I can say the vendor's name because I am trying to warn people about this. I'm pretty sure AVS will not do this. I would have ordered from AVS, but they don't have any new unit until next year and I wanted one for Christmas.
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post #130 of 4382 Old 12-27-2008, 08:10 AM
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eme1 I would ck with your vendor, they may have a ledgit excuse why it was removed from its original package. Did everything else seam in new condition, projector rapping, batteries etc?
We double box all our projectors for extra protection but never remove product from the original sealed manufactures box. We start shipping Monday.
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post #131 of 4382 Old 12-27-2008, 08:15 AM
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I see allot of people with a PS3 does anyone use them for anything but playing blu-rays. How is the unit for gaming? Maybe you can get your kids to reply for you It would be nice to get some feedback about that as well.
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post #132 of 4382 Old 12-27-2008, 08:29 AM
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eme1, I'm just too picky for that nonsense...if I was you I'd very nicely demand a projector that is unopened and still in the original box all wrapped up nicely from the manufacturer.

Your situation would upset me and getting some "loose" projector not even in the original Epson box is simply unacceptable.

There is a chance that they took it out of the box to do a QC check but even then I would think that they would put it right back in the original packaging afterwards. They make styrofoam molds that hold it tight and perfect in the Epson box and there is no reason why they wouldn't continue using it.

Some people might be fine with it as long as it works ok...not me. For 3 grand I want a perfect PJ(ok almost perfect) in a perfect box from Epson.
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post #133 of 4382 Old 12-27-2008, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eme1 View Post

Thanks for the heads up Chris. Are you saying your projector came in the same way?

I got it from the same vendor but it showed up in an Epson box. I would say that the packaging was pretty wimpy for such a pricey item; thin folded cardboard. I expected those styrofoam sides like PS3's and 360's have in their boxes. Don't think its a huge issue but it takes one sloppy delivery handler to ruin a projector.
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post #134 of 4382 Old 12-27-2008, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by contractk View Post

I see allot of people with a PS3 does anyone use them for anything but playing blu-rays. How is the unit for gaming? Maybe you can get your kids to reply for you It would be nice to get some feedback about that as well.

This would be better asked in the Playstation Gaming Forum. I can say that I played Guitar Hero World Tour with 3 others last night and it was a blast. But video quality wasn't a factor for that, other than the size of the image.
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post #135 of 4382 Old 12-27-2008, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eme1 View Post

rwestley...The projector was not in an Epson box. It was just in a big box and it was just lose inside the box. My luck has been really bad with projectors lately. Anyway I was just wondering if anyone else received theirs the same way. I know some people will say I am just being too picky, but I really feel insulted for receiving a product packaged this way when I paid full retail price from a highly respected vendor. I wish I can say the vendor's name because I am trying to warn people about this. I'm pretty sure AVS will not do this. I would have ordered from AVS, but they don't have any new unit until next year and I wanted one for Christmas.

The 6100 ships with 2 large pieces of yellow foam around the lens (one inside, one outside). I assume the 6500 ships with this as well? Did yours even have this?
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post #136 of 4382 Old 12-27-2008, 12:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Eme1, Sorry you could not wait for the AVS power buy. I suggest that you check your your unit to see how many hours are on the bulb and to see if anything is missing from the box. I would also check for dead pixels and convergence. If things check out ok I would still call the dealer and ask why it was shipped that way. You will also need the UPC on the box and the serial number stickers for the rebates
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post #137 of 4382 Old 12-27-2008, 12:33 PM
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I've downloaded the AVS rebate from for the 6500. Where do we get the $200 Epson rebate form (web link or does it come packed with the projector)?

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post #138 of 4382 Old 12-27-2008, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post

I've downloaded the AVS rebate from for the 6500. Where do we get the $200 Epson rebate form (web link or does it come packed with the projector)?


http://www.epson.com/cmc_upload/pdf/...835-C27273.pdf
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post #139 of 4382 Old 12-27-2008, 01:55 PM
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Just to answer a few questions...1st thanks for the comments Alan, I will do just that on Monday. I find it really weird that they would ship a projector this way.

Snausy, I hear you this really bugs me.

rwestly, very good point about the UPC codes. I never really thought about that.

I will give an update on Monday after I speak with the vendor.
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post #140 of 4382 Old 12-27-2008, 02:15 PM - Thread Starter
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eme1, I was just thinking that the original package might have been damaged in shipping and the contents were put into a big box by the shipper. You might be able to tell by the label on the box.
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post #141 of 4382 Old 12-27-2008, 05:55 PM
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Quote:

Thanks for the link. I hadn't been able to find it via the Epson web site.

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post #142 of 4382 Old 12-27-2008, 07:26 PM
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After reading Art's latest blog, he's now suggesting that it is POSSIBLE that the jerkyness and problems with interpolation have to do with the PS3.

http://www.projectorreviews.com/blog...interpolation/

Can we get some people testing their units out with BD players other than the PS3 please? It would be REALLY nice if this problem with stuttering and artifacts while using IP or 4:4 in 24fps playback were a PS3 problem and not a PJ problem.

I have a PS3 but I can always buy a Panny or whatever...
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post #143 of 4382 Old 12-27-2008, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwestley View Post

eme1, I was just thinking that the original package might have been damaged in shipping and the contents were put into a big box by the shipper. You might be able to tell by the label on the box.

Even if this was the case, that would mean a pretty big impact on the package and with electronics I would be just as unhappy in this scenario. I would be thinking my PJ took a huge hit in shipping, not cool!

For me 3,000 dollars is a lot of moolah. I want to be happy for that kind of cash.
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post #144 of 4382 Old 12-28-2008, 01:06 AM
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My 6500UB came in a Epson 6500UB box it had been opened and re-sealed somewhere along the line, which is interesting because it was drop shipped from epson to me directly. I received the box which was re-sealed. When I opened it everything inside looked as if it had never been unwraped or touched before. Unfortunately when I hooked it up I tried to set it up but the focus ring was locked up. I could not turn the focus ring at all. No focus = no happiness = Back in the box she went and is already on her way back to Epson for a replacement.

Nick
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post #145 of 4382 Old 12-28-2008, 01:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snausy View Post

Can we get some people testing their units out with BD players other than the PS3 please? It would be REALLY nice if this problem with stuttering and artifacts while using IP or 4:4 in 24fps playback were a PS3 problem and not a PJ problem.

It's a problem with the PJ -- or the firmware, to be more precise. TW5000 (i.e. 7500UB) with FI enabled glitches the same way when fed by either PS3 or a Sony 550.

Please, feel free to call me by my first name, Petri.
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post #146 of 4382 Old 12-28-2008, 03:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Could someone test the FI with a Blu-Ray player other than a Sony. A Panasonic BD35 or BD55 would be great because of the reviews they have gotten. I am wondering if it has to do with the way the player is outputting 24FPS.
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post #147 of 4382 Old 12-28-2008, 03:36 AM
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PS3 and Sony 550 are two very different beasts; produced by different departments, one a hardware, the other a software solution. Just the fact that both have "Sony" written on the box does not mean both would somehow output faulty 24p which Epson's FI gets offended by.

Please, feel free to call me by my first name, Petri.
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post #148 of 4382 Old 12-28-2008, 04:24 AM
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Very well, just to ease doubts... I hooked my Panny BD55 up to the Epson and ran Sahara credit sequence with FI Normal enabled. The result: same nasty glitches.

Please, feel free to call me by my first name, Petri.
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post #149 of 4382 Old 12-28-2008, 06:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pteittinen View Post

Very well, just to ease doubts... I hooked my Panny BD55 up to the Epson and ran Sahara credit sequence with FI Normal enabled. The result: same nasty glitches.

Can you tell me if there are any exact locations on Casino Royale will you see this as well. Maybe its credit sequence?

I could not see what Art was talking about on my BD35 and 6500 UB in Dark Knight.....but, on Casino Royale last night I was playing a little bit with the scene where Bond is walking into the first card match....along the green landscaped outdoors and into the building down the hallway where he passes the lady in red......these two cuts have a lot of foreground and background motion.. here, I definitely noticed different picture behavior with 4:4 on, or FI on, etc. But, have not determined if there is anything "wrong" yet or if the behavior is as expected with FI on. I am going to look more at this today.

But, it would be helpful if there as a specific point that others are detecting "jerkiness". A credit sequence would be a very obvious and extended area to see it. So, if anyone sees it in a specific location in Casino Royale (or the credit sequence there) please report that.
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post #150 of 4382 Old 12-28-2008, 06:18 AM
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how bout when they are playing cards at the table and the camera pans around everyone at the table. I heard this scene brings out the worst from FI glitches.
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