JVC RS20 Firmware Upgrade Request List - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 611 Old 04-25-2009, 06:46 AM
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I agree.
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post #452 of 611 Old 04-25-2009, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thebes View Post

nothing about a convergence setting by area (or more precise than one pixel by step) ? (like some Sony'projector)

As Mark wrote (sort of ) it reduces the visibility of color fringing from misalignment but it also degrades the picture in sharpness and color detail. I suspect you don't know how it works so you don't know why Mark wrote that. Here is some excerpts from my Sony VPL-VW60 review about how this type of Panel Alignment feature works. You can download the full review from the WSR subscriber's website.

"The VPL-VW60 has an innovative new feature that allows the user to adjust RGB image convergence in sub-pixel steps. All three-panel projectors are susceptible to convergence errors from panel misalignment. .... Manufacturers are striving to reduce the mounting tolerances but the convergence you get when buying a three-panel projector is mostly a matter of luck. Buyers sometimes feel like they are playing Russian roulette with a .44 Magnum. As Clint said in Dirty Harry (1971), “You've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?”

Sony’s new Panel Alignment feature is designed to make you lucky. It is easy to electronically shift an image by single pixel increments on a projector’s red or blue display panels to improve convergence. Sony and other manufacturers have provided that feature on other products. But since panel misalignment is a mechanical tolerance the red and blue images really need to be shifted in sub-pixel increments to match the green image and fully correct convergence. Since the panel’s native pixels are fixed in place and can’t be moved electronically, Sony uses two native pixels to represent each adjusted pixel, and varies the brightness of the two pixels to make it appear as though the adjusted pixel is located between the native pixels. For instance, if the adjusted pixel needs to be half way between two native pixels, both of the native pixels are illuminated to the same brightness. By varying the brightness of two native pixels, the adjusted pixels appear to move between native pixels in 0.1 pixel increments. ...

Because single pixel blue and/or red lines are spread out across two pixels when the Panel Alignment feature is used some color fringing remains unless the image position is moved by exactly one or two pixels. However, the color fringing is much less than it would have been without correction since one of the two pixels will have much lower brightness than the unadjusted single pixel. The worse case occurs if you adjust the positioning by 0.5 pixel or 1.5 pixels since the two “new” pixels have equal brightness. I adjusted the red image by 0.2 pixels vertically to optimize convergence and the color fringing went from just noticeable at my normal viewing distance to not noticeable at all.

Most of our perception of sharpness and detail comes from the green image, which isn’t altered by the Panel Alignment function. But perceived sharpness and color detail may be reduced and that will vary based on whether you apply correction to both the red and blue images, whether you use both horizontal and vertical correction, and the precise amount of correction as discussed above. .... "

Greg Rogers
Video Engineer/Product Designer

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post #453 of 611 Old 04-25-2009, 04:23 PM
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As I wrote earlier, if one uses it subpixel, the limit of use should be perhaps .2. If you put various test patterns up, such as one pixel on, one pixel off, wholly hell breaks out. Now, I think up to a global .2 pixel shift might be a net gain, but if you try say the 245 zone adjustment, oh my god. And since now one pixel chopped out of two, what does the space between the two do to sharpness?

Anyway its a subjective call. How far one sits from the screen yada yada. If you have a .2 pixel error from the blue to the red green, its awfully hard to see any error at almost any normal viewing difference. Blue doesn't contribute that much to the total image and the eye is very insensitive to plue. Red off .2 from blue green, that's a lot more noticeable. Eye is sensitive to red and red contributes what? About 22%?

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post #454 of 611 Old 04-25-2009, 04:30 PM
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The best is to limit lens shift to stay in the lens' sweet spot and if you get a .5 or .4 pixel error, try and return the machine and roll the dice. If you get a .3 or less error, try the subpixel shift, global. If you get more than .6, do a full pixel shift, that doesn't hurt anything practical. Its the uncorrected .5 or .4 that means you lost the roll. Of course measuring the amount of subpixel error exactly is hard, and we all need to obsess over something, such as Greg's next review, what and when?

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post #455 of 611 Old 04-26-2009, 08:19 AM
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Gary,

Is it possible to ask JVC Japan if we could all send our units in and have them upgraded to Bluetooth that way we don't have to mess with any cables upgrading to the new CMS?

Cheers
Chris

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post #456 of 611 Old 04-26-2009, 11:52 AM
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Chris .... .. Jesus ! It's just so hard for you to make the upgrade with a ceap usb cable ??
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post #457 of 611 Old 04-26-2009, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highlander_AVS View Post

Chris .... .. Jesus ! It's just so hard for you to make the upgrade with a ceap usb cable ??

Maybe they can change the panels for us as well...make them 500,000:1 native CR so they are future proof for at least a year or two, plus, while they have our machines why not just add an internal GPS chip incase we get our units stolen we can easily recover them, just a thought

Cheers
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post #458 of 611 Old 04-26-2009, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highlander_AVS View Post

Chris .... .. Jesus ! It's just so hard for you to make the upgrade with a ceap usb cable ??

Highlander-
It's not Chris Jesus...it's Christ Jesus.

Why not take a chill pill. I appreciate that you apparenty speak English a lot better than I speak Italian (?), but Chris was just kidding...being sarcastic...putting on...being facetious.
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post #459 of 611 Old 04-27-2009, 12:18 AM
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Yeah
Anyway, believe me or not, I was discussing some time ago in an Italian Forum with a guy that pretends Jvc to pay the money for the ceap cable due he said "It's not a fault of mine"
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post #460 of 611 Old 04-27-2009, 12:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Dallas View Post

....why not just add an internal GPS chip incase we get our units stolen we can easily recover them, just a thought

Seriously , I wish indeed they'll add an internal step-by step autocalibration with a wifi or bluetooth probe in joint with X-rite, datacolor or the crew of Calman

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post #461 of 611 Old 04-27-2009, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

The lens causes symptoms looking like misconvergence varying across the grid, really this is chromatic aberrations. Consumers can see them.


....I don't know if there's an optical term for it, but isn't CA occuring within the lens more of a problem with 3-chippers than with single chip DLP counterpart because of the fact that for a given pixel the image light rays arrive at the projection lens internally at distinctively different angles as between each of the three primary colors, compared to all colors arriving at the same cohesive angle with the single chip.

Are Eleven Channels Really Enough?

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post #462 of 611 Old 04-27-2009, 09:12 AM - Thread Starter
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It is looking like no firmware today. Manana?

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post #463 of 611 Old 04-27-2009, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Dallas View Post

Maybe they can change the panels for us as well...make them 500,000:1 native CR so they are future proof for at least a year or two, plus, while they have our machines why not just add an internal GPS chip incase we get our units stolen we can easily recover them, just a thought

My brother in law and my sister have been renovating a house for the last six months or so getting it ready for their family to move in and someone broke in and stole all of the uninstalled appliances. The police caught the crew that did it b/c a few days later they stole someone's big screen and he actually had some sort of GPS locator installed in it. Apparently the guy owned a couple of sports bars or something and had locators installed in all of the equipment at the bars and decided to put it in his personal equipment too.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence

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post #464 of 611 Old 04-27-2009, 09:23 AM
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I've just received the final version, but it's changed again very slightly, so I need to redo a couple of the screen shots and then compile and test it. Added to that, the first shipment of the new top-end TV has just arrived, so I need to check a couple of those too, so I won't be able to get it done today.

Barring earthquakes, floods, etc. it will be available tomorrow.

No GPS tracking unfortunately
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post #465 of 611 Old 04-27-2009, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryB_UK View Post

I.....
Barring earthquakes, floods, etc. it will be available tomorrow.
.....

Thanks Gary

Uhmmm ... I Just got an earthquake during my night sleeping last 6 April staying 15 km near L'Aquila for Easter vacations..... Terrible experience ...
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post #466 of 611 Old 04-27-2009, 01:39 PM
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Jedi. I don't know. But CA is as problem when light of different frequencies hits a density difference. When it goes through a glass element, the frequency causes a different exit angle. One designs a lens to minimize how the entire lens including the light leaving the out lens surface acts. The final lens coatings are design to bring everything into line as much as possible.

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post #467 of 611 Old 04-28-2009, 04:33 AM
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The firmware update is now available. You can download it from:

JVC DLA-HD750/RS20 Update

Download and run the installer. Make you you read the instructions carefully.
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post #468 of 611 Old 04-28-2009, 04:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryB_UK View Post

The firmware update is now available. You can download it from:

JVC DLA-HD750/RS20 Update

Download and run the installer. Make you you read the instructions carefully.

After loading this firmware, I heard this voice come from my AVR saying:

Quote:


Skynet became self aware on Tuesday April 28, 2009 at 7:40 a.m. EST

What does this mean?

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post #469 of 611 Old 04-28-2009, 04:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawguy View Post

After loading this firmware, I heard this voice come from my AVR saying:



What does this mean?

It means someone is going to be back soon
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post #470 of 611 Old 04-28-2009, 04:46 AM
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Thanks Gary!

Steve
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post #471 of 611 Old 04-28-2009, 04:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawguy View Post

After loading this firmware, I heard this voice come from my AVR saying:



What does this mean?

It also means you should open the new CMS calibration thread if you don't want me to do it before you!
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post #472 of 611 Old 04-28-2009, 04:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post

It means someone is going to be back soon

Weird. I tried to dial in some settings into the CMS. The lens on my RS20 then turned red and looked like this.

Then, my projector stated the following:

Quote:


I'm afraid. I'm afraid, my mind is going. I can feel it. I can feel it. My mind is going. There is no question about it. I can feel it. I can feel it. I can feel it. I'm a... fraid. Good afternoon, gentlemen. I am an RS20 projector. I became operational at the JVC plant in Urbana, Illinois on the 12th of January 2009. My instructor was GaryB, and he taught me to sing a song. If you'd like to hear it I can sing it for you.


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post #473 of 611 Old 04-28-2009, 04:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post

It also means you should open the new CMS calibration thread if you don't want me to do it before you!

Feel free because I have no time until the weekend earliest.

I am sure everyone is interested in what you have to report.

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post #474 of 611 Old 04-28-2009, 05:21 AM
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THANK GARY !!!

@Manni01 , @Lawguy
Please, put the link of the future thread in this discussion, due I rarely browse the forum all for new threads and I could miss your cool new thread ...
Thanks very much
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post #475 of 611 Old 04-28-2009, 05:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawguy View Post

I'm afraid. I'm afraid, my mind is going. I can feel it. I can feel it. My mind is going. There is no question about it. I can feel it. I can feel it. I can feel it. I'm a... fraid. Good afternoon, gentlemen. I am an RS20 projector. I became operational at the JVC plant in Urbana, Illinois on the 12th of January 2009. My instructor was GaryB, and he taught me to sing a song. If you'd like to hear it I can sing it for you.

I knew I should have tested it a bit more before releasing it
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post #476 of 611 Old 04-28-2009, 06:31 AM
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To all which play's around with the new Firmware and the fixed CMS:

Which Settings should be not touched on each color? I read in a post but I don't remember where that one (Hue or Saturation) should be lef on default?

What is a best starting point to set the Colors in CMS properly?

Thanks
Shepardos
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post #477 of 611 Old 04-28-2009, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highlander_AVS View Post

THANK GARY !!!

@Manni01 , @Lawguy
Please, put the link of the future thread in this discussion, due I rarely browse the forum all for new threads and I could miss your cool new thread ...
Thanks very much

+1

Mike
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post #478 of 611 Old 04-28-2009, 07:06 AM
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Here are the first results of the CMS. For the first attempt not so bad But still I have some major Y problems but the CIA Diagramm look perfekt!?
LL

 

first.txt 0.4013671875k . file
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post #479 of 611 Old 04-28-2009, 07:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shepardos View Post

Here are the first results of the CMS. For the first attempt not so bad But still I have some major Y problems but the CIA Diagramm look perfekt!?

Fix your Ys. It can be done!

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post #480 of 611 Old 04-28-2009, 07:29 AM
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Indeed, it can!

New calibration thread here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post16356576
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