Official JVC RS10 / HD350 Calibration thread - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 30 Old 01-28-2009, 05:59 PM - Thread Starter
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We have one for the RS20, i was hoping we could use this thread to discuss and post calibration settings for the RS10/HD350

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post #2 of 30 Old 01-28-2009, 07:07 PM
 
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Hey crump,

Don't I rember you from back in the NEC HT1000 days?
How do you like the RS10.
Hopefully people will start to post thier settings.

Scott
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post #3 of 30 Old 01-29-2009, 04:58 AM - Thread Starter
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yep, thats me, loved my HT1000, after that moved onto a Mitsibishi HC3100 DC3 720p (was a step up in res but not much else, still a decent upgrade, then HC6000, step up in res, step down in contrast and now finally happy with the my HD350.

only thing i hate is my room is too light coloured to reflections are killing my image, but i have plans to fix that soon

How bout you ?
what PJ do you have ?

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post #4 of 30 Old 01-29-2009, 06:32 AM
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I put the settings that Art used for the RS20 (cinema2) into custom 1. I have to spend some more time with them.
I assume there's no "CMS Settings" as there are with the RS20. Does anyone know how to get to greyscale adjustments?

http://www.projectorreviews.com/jvc/...alibration.php

Quote:


[note this is my extract/reformat from art's article]
Contrast = -4
Brightness = 2
Color Sat. = -5
Tint = -3
Color Temp = (see below)
Gamma = B

Quote:


Color Temp settings:

Gain:
Red: -2
Green: -8
Blue: -49

Offset:
Red: -3
Green: -2
Blue: 0

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post #5 of 30 Old 01-29-2009, 06:42 AM
 
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Alan,
I think you use the color temp settings.
Did you pug these in and if so how do they look.
I'll try to post my settings today, just need to go get them.

Kevin3000 has some that are real close to looking good, still a touch over saturated on mine but a good starting point.

Scott
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post #6 of 30 Old 01-29-2009, 08:40 AM
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It would be helpful to give your screen, room and throw specs when listing your settings. It would be nice to compare settings to environments and setups that might be similar to yours. batcave, 92", 120", high power, matte white, grey Yada Yada Yada...Oh yeah and throw in your image and content preferences - I like a bright pic, I am a black level junkie, mostly sports with some ambient light...

I will be able to post mine in 45 MORE DAYS.

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post #7 of 30 Old 01-30-2009, 06:15 AM
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As with all calibration threads, I just want to caution that each projector is different. Color temp settings especially...what is correct for one may not be for another. Just an FYI.
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post #8 of 30 Old 01-30-2009, 07:25 AM
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I decided to check the standard 6500k setting as i have used 278 lamp hours and too
my surprise Kung Fu Panda looks the same as my adjusted settings same as pics above.....
Will test other films to be sure...

Watched Dark Knight for 30mins and Discovery HD Austin Stevens Snake whatever and saw
no oversaturated colors or red/yellow faces as i did when new. how long this lamp sweet spot
will last before more tweaking????? May troll the HD1 threads for comparisons...
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post #9 of 30 Old 01-30-2009, 08:52 AM
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So far I have come across 3 RS10's/RS20's that have tested at the 6500k correctly...almost all have to be adjusted to make hit D65. Where they are out of the box varies a bunch.
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post #10 of 30 Old 02-07-2009, 02:31 AM
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Last week I calibrated the greyscale of my HD350 (90 lamp hours).
This resulted in the following custom color temperature settings:

Gain:
R -55
G -1
B 0

Offset:
R -1
G 0
B -2

The result looks very good so I am happy with that! Skin looks like skin again (before calibration skin tones were clearly too much red).

What worries me however is the fact that the Red gain setting had to be tuned back a lot while one would expect it should have been blue that needed reduction.

Can this be due to normal lamp variations?

At 0 lamp hours (6500 K setting, offsets all 0) colors looked fine, the reddish tint came after the lamp hours accumulated. So I don't think there is anything wrong with my projector.

What do you guys think?

Ronald.
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post #11 of 30 Old 02-08-2009, 12:09 PM
 
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Calibration after 90 hours?! lol i re-cal after about 900 hours xD

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post #12 of 30 Old 02-08-2009, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cya-nide View Post

Calibration after 90 hours?! lol i re-cal after about 900 hours xD


It's actually not a bad idea to (re-)calibrate after the lamp settles. This is somewhere around 100 or so hrs. However after that one should be good for several hundreds of hours.
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post #13 of 30 Old 02-09-2009, 12:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cya-nide View Post

Calibration after 90 hours?! lol i re-cal after about 900 hours xD


The thing is, it was not a re-cal, it was the first calibration. Initially I wanted to wait untill about 150 hours but I couldn't stand the reddish tint I had on skins. Will re-cal after 150 hours or so and then every 600 hours.
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post #14 of 30 Old 03-09-2009, 09:43 PM
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Just curious since I am about to purchase the RS10/hd350, can the projector be calibrated to provide a more accurate picture or is the rs10 a brighter hd100? Are there ways to adjust the picture or does that have to be done through a service menu or by a pro-calibrator?
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post #15 of 30 Old 03-18-2009, 03:18 PM
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Hey Guys,

I've gotten to calibrate several RS20 and Lumagen Radiance processor combos lately. However, a few days ago I got to do my first RS10 and Radaince combo and I have several more on the schedule over the next few weeks.

I plan to write up a white paper on the results, but suffice it to say that an RS10 with a Radiance processor looks almost identical to an RS20 with a Radiance processor... and that is fantastic. I will post back to this thread once I get the white paper written (could be a few weeks off), but for now if you want a teaser just read over what I already have on the RS20 and Radiance combo here link because like I say, the end results are remarkably similar.

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post #16 of 30 Old 03-18-2009, 03:54 PM
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That's very interesting Craig, I already read your RS20/Radience combo review when you first posted it. I bought a HD350 recently, but I'm waiting to get more hours on the lamp before I attempt a calibration, so I'm just running it with the basic contrast, brightness settings for now.

I've got a HDQ that I picked up secondhand, however I think that despite reading the entire HDQ/gamut thread, having tried to practice on my TV I don't think I can hope to acheive a result even close to the Radience. I had hoped to be able to tame the colours on my HD350 using the settings posted by Lawguy as a starting point (on top of a corrected D65 greyscale), but I can't seem to get anyware close using my TV 'test bed' following the same procedure as posted by LG.

I may have to wait until/if a Radience 'Lite' comes out as I can't really spare the cost of the Radience XD at the moment. Though if I can just reign in the worst of the colour extremes, maybe that will be enough for me as I don't actually find the HD350 too bad (shock horror ). I had my old AE3000 set up using a fairly accurate mode ('Colour 1') and I found I prefered another mode 'Cinema 1' even though I measured it as having much larger delta E results for rec709, so maybe I've become 'tuned' to this picture.....

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post #17 of 30 Old 03-18-2009, 04:06 PM
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Kelvin1965S

Wait until you have clocked up 200 hours you will be very happy no need for the extra expense. I have 482 hours on mine checkout the screenshots thread where i post alot and try to match what i am seeing on my screen no overblown reds or yellows and skin tones look right, clock them hours up........
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post #18 of 30 Old 03-18-2009, 04:48 PM
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Hi Kevin, I haven't actually tried to adjust my HD350 yet, I've only used my TV as a test bed for trying out the very limited colour 'mitigation' controls on the HDQ. As I've had such problems trying to get this to work ( my TV has a strong green push) then I wasn't feeling hopeful for when I try the HD350. I guess you are saying that with a few hours on the lamp, then the colours even out a bit?

To be perfectly honest, my initial viewing with the HD350 colour set to -10 has me quite happy anyway. I'm more bothered by poor black levels and brightness compression (when using an iris assisted PJ), then exact colour. I'm maybe getting too wrapped up in the technical details of trying to minimise delta E.

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post #19 of 30 Old 03-18-2009, 10:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1965S View Post


I may have to wait until/if a Radience 'Lite' comes out as I can't really spare the cost of the Radience XD at the moment.

I had the same plan and spoke with Jim Peterson at LUmagen to check out the possibilities. He said while they could do it they had no plans to do so. They will be producing a Radiance with a slightly lower price than the XD but it will not be anywhere near the $1000 I was hoping for for a CMS only box.
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post #20 of 30 Old 03-19-2009, 01:23 AM
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Thanks for the heads up Smyth22. I think I'll just be a heathen turn my colour down to -10 and enjoy. I'm obviously not that sensitive to off colours (either that or I've become so used to seeing them that I think they're normal ).

I watched some TV recordings via my HDQ last night, with the limited correction for my TV (all of the primaries and secondaries were about 20-25 delta E according to HFCR). While technically it doesn't measure very close, it still looked fine to me. I'll have a try with the HD350 after I do the greyscale, etc, but I won't waste too much time, if my results (and more importantly my impressions) are likely to be similar.

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post #21 of 30 Old 03-19-2009, 06:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1965S View Post

That's very interesting Craig, I already read your RS20/Radience combo review when you first posted it. I bought a HD350 recently, but I'm waiting to get more hours on the lamp before I attempt a calibration, so I'm just running it with the basic contrast, brightness settings for now.

I've got a HDQ that I picked up secondhand, however I think that despite reading the entire HDQ/gamut thread, having tried to practice on my TV I don't think I can hope to acheive a result even close to the Radience. I had hoped to be able to tame the colours on my HD350 using the settings posted by Lawguy as a starting point (on top of a corrected D65 greyscale), but I can't seem to get anyware close using my TV 'test bed' following the same procedure as posted by LG.

I may have to wait until/if a Radience 'Lite' comes out as I can't really spare the cost of the Radience XD at the moment. Though if I can just reign in the worst of the colour extremes, maybe that will be enough for me as I don't actually find the HD350 too bad (shock horror ). I had my old AE3000 set up using a fairly accurate mode ('Colour 1') and I found I prefered another mode 'Cinema 1' even though I measured it as having much larger delta E results for rec709, so maybe I've become 'tuned' to this picture.....

The very worst part of the RS10 color gamut is the green. Here is a chart of the native RS10 response at 75% stimulus to give you an idea of what you are dealing with.

RS10 Natural 75%


While the HDQ won't make your gamut perfect, it can be used to improve green dramatically. Everything on the RS10 has a green cast to it. You might not find it offensive out of box, but once you see how nice the RS10 looks without the green cast you won't ever want to see the RS10 again with the excessive green.

Just be careful with the HDQ not to overdo it. If you use too much correction on the HDQ it will really throw off the secondary colors

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post #22 of 30 Old 03-19-2009, 06:52 AM
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And here is a teaser.... RS10 at 75% stimulus with Radiance XD installed and calibrated.

RS10 Natural + RadianceXD 75%


HUGE improvement

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post #23 of 30 Old 03-19-2009, 07:24 AM
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No martians appearing on my machine have you checked them colour charts at 250 lamp hours??
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post #24 of 30 Old 03-19-2009, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CIR-Engineering View Post

The very worst part of the RS10 color gamut is the green. Here is a chart of the native RS10 response at 75% stimulus to give you an idea of what you are dealing with.

Thats even stronger than my TV's gamut, which I've using to practice on, see the attached before and after (as in after I gave up ). Needless to say your 'after' gamut looks spot on.....It must be so nice just being able to dial in the corrections for each primary and secondary and then you're done. I bet you have these setups done in half an hour.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CIR-Engineering View Post

While the HDQ won't make your gamut perfect, it can be used to improve green dramatically. Everything on the RS10 has a green cast to it. You might not find it offensive out of box, but once you see how nice the RS10 looks without the green cast you won't ever want to see the RS10 again with the excessive green.

Just be careful with the HDQ not to overdo it. If you use too much correction on the HDQ it will really throw off the secondary colors

craigr

I'm wondering if it might be better just to use the colour controls on the HDQ's input side and just apply some green offset instead. Given my failure with the actual 'gamut' control....BTW, the only way I didn't effect the secondaries to some degree was by not moving the green, which kind of defeats the object. I know it's not meant as a full CMS, but it should be able to correct the green push a bit.
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post #25 of 30 Old 03-20-2009, 06:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1965S View Post

Thats even stronger than my TV's gamut, which I've using to practice on, see the attached before and after (as in after I gave up ). Needless to say your 'after' gamut looks spot on.....It must be so nice just being able to dial in the corrections for each primary and secondary and then you're done. I bet you have these setups done in half an hour.



I'm wondering if it might be better just to use the colour controls on the HDQ's input side and just apply some green offset instead. Given my failure with the actual 'gamut' control....BTW, the only way I didn't effect the secondaries to some degree was by not moving the green, which kind of defeats the object. I know it's not meant as a full CMS, but it should be able to correct the green push a bit.

I think your green primary is most likely not as bad looking because of the meter you used to measure it. What meter are you using for this calibration effort? I am using a PhotoReasearch PR-650 that is known to be accurate...

Even with a Radiance it is not simply a matter of just dialing in the gamut. I actually spent over nine hours on that calibration. There is a mater of avoiding nonlinearity that can easily become apparent when you do CMS processing before the signal hits the projector.

When I get the white paper written I will detail what I did. I will say that I got the RS10 and Radiance combo to perform very linearly over a range of stimulus levels. I wasn't like I just did 75% and left

... and then there is the matter of grayscale, scaling, and optimization of input sources...

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post #26 of 30 Old 03-20-2009, 09:22 AM
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Hi Craig, I was being a little tongue in cheek when I said you'd have these done in half an hour. I'm using an I1 probe, with HFCR which I'm sure you would probably laugh at, but it is supposed to be the better of it's type for the price. I use a different kind of calibration equipment in my day job and I know how expensive decent kit is, so I just have to manage with what I've got....I'd still hope it is better than just my eyes.

Thing is, I don't know if it's placibo effect, but once I'd done a greyscale calibration with the I1 my TV's picture did seem better, as did my previous AE3000. I have a feeling that I may just end up paying for a proffesional calibration for the HDQ/HD350 at some point (maybe once I've got to 150 hours or so, the point at which I'm usually thinking about changing my PJ ).

The measurements I posted above were not for my HD350 BTW, they were my Sony TV which I've been pratising on with my HDQ, until I get some more hours on the HD350, so that might explain why the green isn't so bad as a HD350.

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post #27 of 30 Old 10-27-2009, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CIR-Engineering View Post

When I get the white paper written I will detail what I did.

Any news on that?

Thanks!
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post #28 of 30 Old 10-27-2009, 03:56 PM
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I thought "Oh what's this new thread?" and then noticed I'd posted on it three times before. I guess that's old age for you.

Seeing as Madshi has bumped it back up to the top I may as well post my recent (230 hours in) recalibration results. I got really cynical about my I1-LT, but this time took much more care over the preparation: I warmed it up for a couple of hours (as in I left it plugged into my laptop taking readings of the ambient light in the room). The PJ was on for a couple of hours first and I recalibrated the sensor to black before each run. The results were at least much more repeatable than in the past. I just hope the I1 is at least more accurate than my eyes, so I've improved things a bit.

I'm still regularly amazed at the PQ of my HD350 (although I will admit to trying to do a quick swop for an end of lne HD750 recently ). I took my Son to the local Showcase today and was reminded how much better the picture I get at home is in terms of black level and sharpness. This is probably more a comment on the lack of care taken by the projectionist, but I'm just speaking as I saw.

I use a Lumagen HDQ for colour mitigation, though to be fair I started with Lawguy's HD1 settings and worked a bit from there (not too far away from them). I've used the 11 point greyscale adjustment on the HDQ but only above 30 IRE as I don't believe my results are very accurate below that IRE.

FWIW my HD350 settings are pretty much at default, apart (from memory and notice the first paragraph in this post ) from main contrast down to -14 to balance the 100 IRE reading.

My RGB settings are:
Gain: Red 0, Green -29, Blue -65
Offset: Red 0, Green -4, Blue 0

None of these readings will be much use to anyone to input in their HD350/RS10 (especially as there are some adjustments made in my HDQ to balance HD and SD inputs). I include them purely for technical interest.
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post #29 of 30 Old 10-27-2009, 04:00 PM
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Out of curiosity, are the RGB gain values in the service menu unique to each projector (e.g. calibrated in the factory), or are they same on every HD350 (e.g. -65 on blue for 6500).
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post #30 of 30 Old 10-27-2009, 04:04 PM
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I don't know what mine was at because I've adjusted it before and didn't note what it was. My first greyscale run when it was newer was very high in green set to 6500 IIRC.

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