Planar 8150 follow up impressions - Page 16 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #451 of 773 Old 07-15-2009, 10:11 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Kris Deering's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Pacific Northwet
Posts: 7,108
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 219 Post(s)
Liked: 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

The problem is the Lumagen is reading 4 4 4 from the fios box si i don`t think I have an input choice. actually I think 4 2 2 out of the Lumagen looks a little better into the Planar than 4 4 4 but its close.

The Lumagen uses the Gennum video processing chip, which does all of its processing in 4:2:2. So in your case I don't really think it matters what you output simply because the Planar handles both just fine.

Senior Video Editor
Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Kris Deering is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #452 of 773 Old 07-15-2009, 11:02 AM
AVS Special Member
 
madshi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5,471
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 61 Post(s)
Liked: 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

The Lumagen uses the Gennum video processing chip, which does all of its processing in 4:2:2. So in your case I don't really think it matters what you output simply because the Planar handles both just fine.

The Gennum chip is only used for some parts of the processing chain (noise reduction, deinterlacing, detail enhancement). Scaling is done by Lumagen's own FPGA, as is gamut correction. Gamut correction can (AFAIK) not be properly done on 4:2:2 data, so the Radiance has to convert to 4:4:4 internally. Which means that if you ask the Radiance to output 4:2:2, it has to dumb its internal data bitdepth down. Outputting RGB or YCbCr 4:4:4 should be better, if the display is able to keep 4:4:4 throughout its own processing chain.
madshi is offline  
post #453 of 773 Old 07-15-2009, 11:36 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Kris Deering's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Pacific Northwet
Posts: 7,108
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 219 Post(s)
Liked: 357
Interesting, sounds like depending on how you have the Lumagen configured, you may be doing several color space conversions.

In this case, the Planar can do a straight 4:4:4 pass thru with the only conversion being done at the panel drivers.

Senior Video Editor
Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Kris Deering is online now  
post #454 of 773 Old 07-15-2009, 11:39 AM
Member
 
Oggythemoggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Somewhere that may contain nuts
Posts: 78
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haroon Malik View Post

Are you using the standard lens that comes with the Planar or the optional short throw lens which has to be bought separately AFAIK?

Standard Lens.

Oggy

This message has been formatted to fit your primitive screen
Oggythemoggy is offline  
post #455 of 773 Old 07-15-2009, 03:38 PM
AVS Special Member
 
sspears's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Sammamish, WA, USA
Posts: 5,246
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 53
Quote:


Gamut correction can (AFAIK) not be properly done on 4:2:2 data

I would assume they would perform gamut adjustment in RGB.

Stacey Spears
Co-Creator,
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

sspears is offline  
post #456 of 773 Old 07-16-2009, 12:42 AM
AVS Special Member
 
madshi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5,471
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 61 Post(s)
Liked: 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by sspears View Post

I would assume they would perform gamut adjustment in RGB.

The gamut adjustment is performed by using a 3D lookup table. All the math (hopefully including a temporary conversion to linear light RGB) is done offline when filling the lookup table. In the real time processing chain RGB doesn't have to be involved. The lookup table could be calculated to do YCbCr 4:4:4 -> YCbCr 4:4:4. And if the lookup table is filled by using 64bit floating point math, the internal color space conversions needed for gamut adjustment should be lossless. That all depends on how Lumagen decided to implement this. I don't know the details of their implementation.
madshi is offline  
post #457 of 773 Old 07-17-2009, 08:31 AM
Super Moderator
 
Bob Sorel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 8,463
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 66 Post(s)
Liked: 116
One more thing, Kris (or anyone else using the Oppo/8150 combo), are you having any issues using 1080p/24? If I set both the Oppo and the 8150 to "auto" for 24 hz and 48 hz respectively, everything is displayed in 1080p/60. If I force the Oppo to use 24hz by using the "on" position, then the 8150 properly locks on to the 24hz signal and displays it at 48hz. My assumption is that by using the "auto" position on both units, both of them are waiting for the other to make a commitment as to what frame rate to use, and as such revert to 60 hz. I'm just wondering if I am right or not.

_______________________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Bob Sorel is offline  
post #458 of 773 Old 07-17-2009, 02:36 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Anthony A.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Canada EH?
Posts: 2,539
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
with all this talk on scalers, has anyone done a comparison using the pj as the scaler being fet 480i or 1080p60, etc. and then compared it to using the an external scaler or the new oppo 83 bd player? im trying to decide if i should invest in a scaler or if the pj's gennum will be the same.

Dedicated Theater Construction Thread

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Home Automation Construction Thread

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Anthony A. is offline  
post #459 of 773 Old 07-21-2009, 10:04 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
stanger89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Marion, IA
Posts: 17,426
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 134 Post(s)
Liked: 148
And I've been meaning to ask, what happens if the DLP refresh is set to auto and you feed it 1080i60 that's telecined 24fps film, will it reconstruct the 24p and switch to 48Hz? What about 480i sources (DVD)?

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do,
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
stanger89 is online now  
post #460 of 773 Old 07-24-2009, 03:30 AM
Senior Member
 
tausifs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: West Midlands, UK.
Posts: 370
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

And I've been meaning to ask, what happens if the DLP refresh is set to auto and you feed it 1080i60 that's telecined 24fps film, will it reconstruct the 24p and switch to 48Hz? What about 480i sources (DVD)?

the mp18 fw was meant to correct an issue with this very feature (among other things), so yes, it should work, and I would have thought it would work if fed 480i too, if your player can output it. I can't remember precisely, however but I think you would have to set the DLP refresh to 48Hz to acheive this, not auto.
tausifs is offline  
post #461 of 773 Old 07-24-2009, 10:18 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
stanger89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Marion, IA
Posts: 17,426
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 134 Post(s)
Liked: 148
Thanks tausifs, the way I read that, it will properly IVTC film content, but it won't automatically switch to 48Hz, you'd have to do that manually?

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do,
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
stanger89 is online now  
post #462 of 773 Old 07-24-2009, 01:51 PM
Senior Member
 
tausifs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: West Midlands, UK.
Posts: 370
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

Thanks tausifs, the way I read that, it will properly IVTC film content, but it won't automatically switch to 48Hz, you'd have to do that manually?

Yes I think that is it. If fed 1080i60 or 480i60, left on auto, I believe it would display at 60Hz (fps)- manual says it frame locks to the main source if the vertical refresh rate is between 48 and 62 Hz. But if the DLP refresh rate is 48Hz, it will force an inverse telecine to 48fps- manual says use this setting to eliminate 2:3 pull down judder.
tausifs is offline  
post #463 of 773 Old 07-24-2009, 02:49 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
stanger89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Marion, IA
Posts: 17,426
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 134 Post(s)
Liked: 148
Thanks again, would be cool if it were auto I think Anthem's Gennum implementation is But they don't have the horizontal squeeze modes yet

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do,
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
stanger89 is online now  
post #464 of 773 Old 07-24-2009, 03:06 PM
Super Moderator
 
Bob Sorel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 8,463
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 66 Post(s)
Liked: 116
Quote:


with all this talk on scalers, has anyone done a comparison using the pj as the scaler being fet 480i or 1080p60, etc. and then compared it to using the an external scaler or the new oppo 83 bd player? im trying to decide if i should invest in a scaler or if the pj's gennum will be the same.

I have not done any extensive testing or anything, but I'll just leave you with this little story. In my "old" setup I used to output 1080i to my Crystalio 2 VP (1080i from my PS3 for Blu-ray and 1080i upconverted from my Oppo DVD player), allowing the Crystalio 2 to do the 1080i to 1080p deinterlacing. Everything looked GREAT! Now, in my new setup, I run my Oppo BDP-83 Blu-ray player DIRECTLY to the Planar, bypassing the Crystalio 2 completely. If I set the Oppo to output 1080p to the Planar, Blu-ray discs looks GREAT, just like they did with my old PS-3 feeding the C2 and then to the projector.

The other night I put in a Blu-ray disc and within 30 seconds was wondering why it looked so bad...I could see minor "jaggies" that I never see with with Blu-ray. I started looking for the problem and noticed that I had the Oppo set to output 1080i instead of 1080p, thus leaving the deinterlacing to the Planar - not good at all in my opinion. I know that this is not a very valid experiment, and that I only tested a single source (Blu-ray 1080i output), but just that short experience was enough to convince me that my Crystalio 2 will not be going anywhere in the near future. 1080i to 1080p conversion in the C2 is far superior to the same conversion done in the Planar.

_______________________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Bob Sorel is offline  
post #465 of 773 Old 07-24-2009, 03:46 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
mark haflich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: brookeville, maryland, usa
Posts: 19,940
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 444 Post(s)
Liked: 489
1080 ito1080p conversion in the Planar is done by the Gennum chip. Obvious differences between video 1080i and film 1080i also. I feed eveything 1080p from my Lumagen which also uses the Gennum chip for deinterlacing but not for scaling. 1080p 24 pass through except converted to 48 by the Lumagen, Planar set to auto.

Mark Haflich

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

call me at: 240 876 2536
mark haflich is online now  
post #466 of 773 Old 07-24-2009, 04:42 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Anthony A.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Canada EH?
Posts: 2,539
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
so for bluray and sd dvd, if i output 1080p from the oppo 83 directly into the pj i should be fine. if i use the sat box, should i output 480i or 1080i into the pj? this is of course, if i don't opt for a scaler.

Dedicated Theater Construction Thread

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Home Automation Construction Thread

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Anthony A. is offline  
post #467 of 773 Old 07-24-2009, 04:49 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
mark haflich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: brookeville, maryland, usa
Posts: 19,940
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 444 Post(s)
Liked: 489
Feed it whatever the native is being received by the sat box. The Gennum chip is better than the chip in the sat box, that`s for sure. If you are getting high def 720p and 1080i for the various high def channels, feed it the native 720p or 1080i. For low def native 480i, feed it that.

Mark Haflich

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

call me at: 240 876 2536
mark haflich is online now  
post #468 of 773 Old 07-24-2009, 06:30 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
Alan Gouger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: Florida
Posts: 18,726
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Brian Carskadon is no longer with Planar. Brian best of luck with what ever you are doing. Your contribution here was appreciated.
Alan Gouger is offline  
post #469 of 773 Old 07-24-2009, 06:35 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
mark haflich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: brookeville, maryland, usa
Posts: 19,940
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 444 Post(s)
Liked: 489
Ditto.

Mark Haflich

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

call me at: 240 876 2536
mark haflich is online now  
post #470 of 773 Old 07-24-2009, 08:10 PM
Advanced Member
 
AudioBear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Champaign, IL
Posts: 777
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Brian is really a good guy. I hope he does well wherever he has gone.

AudioBear
AudioBear is offline  
post #471 of 773 Old 07-24-2009, 08:16 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Anthony A.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Canada EH?
Posts: 2,539
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
not to make this another comparison thread, but how does the 8150 compare to the sim2 ht-380? i realize the sim2 is more expensive, but in terms of sharpness, contrast and brightness, are they equal?

Dedicated Theater Construction Thread

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Home Automation Construction Thread

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Anthony A. is offline  
post #472 of 773 Old 07-25-2009, 05:58 AM
Super Moderator
 
Bob Sorel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 8,463
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 66 Post(s)
Liked: 116
Quote:


not to make this another comparison thread, but how does the 8150 compare to the sim2 ht-380? i realize the sim2 is more expensive, but in terms of sharpness, contrast and brightness, are they equal?

Please read my mini review in the Planar owners' thread (wherever it may be). I had owned the HT-380 for about a year before buying the 8150, and I had the Sharp XV-Z20k for a while before that. The short story - the Planar is a significant improvement over either.

Oh yeah, and another big thanks to Brian for all of his help and consideration. He will surely be missed as a Planar rep, but I hope to see him here again in whatever new position he now holds.

_______________________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Bob Sorel is offline  
post #473 of 773 Old 07-25-2009, 07:01 AM
 
quantumstate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,694
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Has anyone messed with the remote? I tried every universal TV code in my Dish remote, and none would power on/off the 8150. Planar sent me a PCF file to load into the World's Most Expensive remotes, but I can't help wonder whether a learning remote could pick up the codes.
quantumstate is offline  
post #474 of 773 Old 07-25-2009, 07:33 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Robert Whitehead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: West Hartford, CT; USA 06107
Posts: 3,316
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Universal Remotes learn all the Planar commands.
Robert Whitehead is offline  
post #475 of 773 Old 07-27-2009, 07:22 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Anthony A.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Canada EH?
Posts: 2,539
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
since im a noob to the pj world. i keep trying to jusdge which projector will be enough light for my 126" 1.16 gain at screen setup. the planar website states that the 8150 has 1000 max lumens calibrated to d65, yet most here who have measured this all state theirs is between 550-600 in high lamp mode. why is it that this number is significantly lower? also, is it fair to say that the actual light output of any pj will usually be half of what the specs say when calibrated to d65? (ie. infocus in83 pj is rated at 1400 lumens = 700 real life). if that is the case, i still don't see how the reviews state that the planar is brighter than the in83 and yet is has supposedly less lumens. if anyone could explain this to me, that would be great. thanks.

Dedicated Theater Construction Thread

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Home Automation Construction Thread

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Anthony A. is offline  
post #476 of 773 Old 07-27-2009, 11:23 PM
Advanced Member
 
Drexler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Posts: 935
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Ignore the specs, they can't be compared. You have to go after measured values from enthusiasts or reviewers. Art at projectorreviews has a lot of measurements.

IN83 is at about 1000 lumens calibrated at D65 with a new bulb.
Drexler is offline  
post #477 of 773 Old 07-28-2009, 01:46 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
stanger89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Marion, IA
Posts: 17,426
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 134 Post(s)
Liked: 148
As noted, you have to be very careful interpreting brightness specs. Some MFGs, Planar, InFocus, JVC quite their numbers "calibrated", meaning with the projector set in a configuration like we here would actually use (many others spec brightness in HT-unusable modes so calibrated brightness is sometimes near an order of magnitude less). But even then, they're optimistic, they're in high lamp mode, fresh lamp, any manual iris all the way open, etc.

Reality you should expect a bit less to start with, and then knock it down more for low lamp mode (maybe 30%) and then drop it more to account for lamp aging.

Hopefully, with a little shipping luck, I'll be able to report back how an 8150 works on a 110" wide 2.4:1 SMX screen by the weekend.

Woohoo!

Anyone know if the wired IR input will work with the wired IR blaster output from a URC MX-350 base station?

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do,
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
stanger89 is online now  
post #478 of 773 Old 07-28-2009, 04:19 PM
Senior Member
 
tausifs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: West Midlands, UK.
Posts: 370
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I have chosen express shipping, and I will be more than a little put out if I don't have my 8150 by the weekend either

I had a 8130 on home demo some weeks back and was completely sold on it. However, I was told I wouldn't be allowed to mount a Planar on the ceiling by the wife, which kind of killed the whole idea for me... until a few days ago when I asked how about I just use it on a table top
tausifs is offline  
post #479 of 773 Old 07-28-2009, 08:47 PM
AVS Special Member
 
smithfarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Palm Beach, Fl
Posts: 2,246
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

Hopefully, with a little shipping luck, I'll be able to report back how an 8150 works on a 110" wide 2.4:1 SMX screen by the weekend.

Woohoo!

Congrats!

Is it Alan's demo unit? I almost jumped on that a week ago but after some deliberation decided to wait until after Cedia. I hope you find it meets your expectations and look forward to reading your impressions.
smithfarmer is offline  
post #480 of 773 Old 07-29-2009, 02:46 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
mark haflich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: brookeville, maryland, usa
Posts: 19,940
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 444 Post(s)
Liked: 489
Like any lens shift projector where the image is centered in the lens when the projector is mounted at screen center, the unit will give optimized optical performance table mounted assuming table mount will place the lens closer to screen center than ceiling mount.

Mark Haflich

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

call me at: 240 876 2536
mark haflich is online now  
Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off