Planar 8150 follow up impressions - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 773 Old 02-19-2009, 10:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey everyone. I had the chance to look at another 8150 today and I must say I was even more impressed this time around than when I did my review last year. Planar has addressed the issues with clipping and contrast has been improved. I currently have an RS2 in my room that is a cherry of a unit as most people who have seen know but the Planar barely gave up anything to it in overall contrast with mixed and dark material. I am going to play around with it for a few more days but so far I am really impressed with the tweaks.

Sharpness has also improved and the unit I had was more in line with what I've seen from the Marantz units though not quite that tack sharp, but an obvious improvement over my RS2, which is very sharp for a 3-chip design. I must say given this performance level and the way the market is right now for projectors anyone in the market would be remiss not to give this one a look!!

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post #2 of 773 Old 02-20-2009, 03:38 AM
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Have you seen a pd8130 by any chance?
And it really puzzles me how projectors like the pd8150 and optoma hd8200 get people reporting JVC-like blacks and on/off when the independant measurements are so lopsided in favor of jvc's.
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post #3 of 773 Old 02-20-2009, 04:09 AM
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I saw PD8150 and JVC RS20 : both have very good blacks. Probably JVC is better at that but we are talking of some millinits !
The On-off contrast is totally pro JVC since both Planar and Optoma are DI based and nativelly can only do about 2.000:1 On-Off while JVC easily reach 10.000:1.
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post #4 of 773 Old 02-20-2009, 04:40 AM
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Which one was more impressive to you, and for what reasons?
Here are cine4home.de measurements and comments on pd8150/8130 :
Quote:


Measurements Planar PD8150

Mode Lamp NativeCR DynamicCR Light output

D65 Eco 2700:1 10,000:1 480
D65bc Eco 3300:1 11700:1 650

Similarly good results of the PD8130, but it is the adaptive aperture not quite so effective, so that the dynamic contrast values lower.

Measurements Planar PD8130

Mode Lamp NativeCR DynamicCR Light output

D65 Eco 2600:1 6800:1 450
D65bc Eco 3200:1 7700:1 630


I wonder how close is pd8130 to pd8150 in contrast and overall..since I have a chance to get it under $5k but not the 8150
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post #5 of 773 Old 02-20-2009, 11:45 PM
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If those native contrast measurements are true, would that mean both projectors are most likely using dark chip 3?
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post #6 of 773 Old 02-21-2009, 07:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CADOBHuK View Post

And it really puzzles me how projectors like the pd8150 and optoma hd8200 get people reporting JVC-like blacks and on/off when the independant measurements are so lopsided in favor of jvc's.

I am puzzled by those who place so much emphasis on one specification like..... contrast. To be sure, contrast can be a deal breaker, but there are many other considerations like color, greyscale, light output, etc. which also play a role in the overall picture quality.

As far as I am concerned, if the contrast ratio (black level) is sufficiently low to produce a striking picture, I am satisfied. Color, greyscale and light output become more important to me if the projector can meet this acceptable black level. I don't like some of the cartoonish colors which some of these projectors produce due to the oversaturated color systems and poor calibration capabilities.

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post #7 of 773 Old 02-21-2009, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

Hey everyone. I had the chance to look at another 8150 today and I must say I was even more impressed this time around than when I did my review last year. Planar has addressed the issues with clipping and contrast has been improved. I currently have an RS2 in my room that is a cherry of a unit as most people who have seen know but the Planar barely gave up anything to it in overall contrast with mixed and dark material. I am going to play around with it for a few more days but so far I am really impressed with the tweaks.

Sharpness has also improved and the unit I had was more in line with what I've seen from the Marantz units though not quite that tack sharp, but an obvious improvement over my RS2, which is very sharp for a 3-chip design. I must say given this performance level and the way the market is right now for projectors anyone in the market would be remiss not to give this one a look!!

I saw the 8150 locally about 2 months ago...thought the 'calibrated' unit threw a very compelling image. I am amazed at the capabilities of these projectors, compared to those produced just 3-5 years ago at twice the cost!

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post #8 of 773 Old 02-21-2009, 10:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Doogie View Post

I saw the 8150 locally about 2 months ago...thought the 'calibrated' unit threw a very compelling image. I am amazed at the capabilities of these projectors, compared to those produced just 3-5 years ago at twice the cost!

I agree. It really does get into the nitpicking far more than it used to. As I mentioned in my last projector round up most of the units are getting so good lately that it is pretty hard to pick a bad one.

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post #9 of 773 Old 02-21-2009, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CADOBHuK View Post

If those native contrast measurements are true, would that mean both projectors are most likely using dark chip 3?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the 8130 uses a a DC2+ chip - but the 8150 definitely uses a DC3.

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post #10 of 773 Old 02-21-2009, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

Hey everyone. I had the chance to look at another 8150 today and I must say I was even more impressed this time around than when I did my review last year. Planar has addressed the issues with clipping and contrast has been improved. I currently have an RS2 in my room that is a cherry of a unit as most people who have seen know but the Planar barely gave up anything to it in overall contrast with mixed and dark material. I am going to play around with it for a few more days but so far I am really impressed with the tweaks.

Sharpness has also improved and the unit I had was more in line with what I've seen from the Marantz units though not quite that tack sharp, but an obvious improvement over my RS2, which is very sharp for a 3-chip design. I must say given this performance level and the way the market is right now for projectors anyone in the market would be remiss not to give this one a look!!

I had a Planar 8150 demonstrated in my local store about 2 months ago together with the latest Da-Lite Joe Kane's Affinity 92" screen. Even under the Standard lamp mode ( as opposed to the Economy mode), the picture was unacceptably dim, and the intra-scene contrast was unimpressive. A Pioneer clone of the previous generation of JVC RS2 looked much brighter with better intra-scene contrast on the same screen running the same Blu-ray disc (Ice-Age). Pioneer may have done something special to the RS2 to make it excel in such an obvious way. Of course, that's just my own opinion.
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post #11 of 773 Old 02-21-2009, 11:38 AM
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It sounds like the Planar either had an old bulb or was just set up incorrectly - although I've never seen the 8150 in person, I've read nothing but glowing remarks regarding the projector's brightness.

I got my hands on one of the "cheap" FPJ1's to replace my RS1, but after seeing how great my PD7130 looks (I use it when I deploy to the Middle East) and the almost complete lack of rainbows (my only major complaint about DLP), I'm once again considering a Planar, W20000, or possibly Marantz if the FPJ1 doesn't wow me. There's just something about that DLP "pop" that's very appealing...

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post #12 of 773 Old 02-21-2009, 02:34 PM
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krellthiel
that's definetely an old lamp or a defective unit..pd8150 is supposed to lit up much bigger screens than 92", with ease
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post #13 of 773 Old 02-21-2009, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CADOBHuK View Post

krellthiel
that's definetely an old lamp or a defective unit..pd8150 is supposed to lit up much bigger screens than 92", with ease

That's always a possibility.
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post #14 of 773 Old 02-22-2009, 12:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HogPilot View Post

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the 8130 uses a a DC2+ chip - but the 8150 definitely uses a DC3.

Then how did cine4home.de measure almost identical native CR between them?
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post #15 of 773 Old 02-22-2009, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CADOBHuK View Post

Then how did cine4home.de measure almost identical native CR between them?

As I said, I could be wrong.

But as has been discussed elsewhere, there's a LOT of things - most notably the design and quality of the optical path - that contribute to a projector's native contrast aside from the contrast of the panels themselves.

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post #16 of 773 Old 02-23-2009, 09:14 AM
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Got together last night with a few guys and projectors. A new Planar 8150 (Kris's) and a couple RS20's and an RS1.

The new planar looked fabulous for a 1 chipper. The best 1 chipper I've seen to date. I think we measured 17,000:1 on/off and 700:1 ansi.
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post #17 of 773 Old 02-23-2009, 09:17 AM
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Wow, I'd expect a projector with those measurements (Planar) to look fantastic.

So...how'd it compare to the JVCs?
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post #18 of 773 Old 02-23-2009, 09:19 AM
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Obviously they are all fabulous projectors. And if DLP could get rid of rainbows permanently It would definitely be a difficult decision for me. Sometimes I like extra sharpness. Sometimes I like the easy feel of three chips.

Overall I still liked my RS1 best Even though it was the least sharp...I just can live with the wonderful colors
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post #19 of 773 Old 02-23-2009, 09:33 AM
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These are impressive numbers! Is there a new breed of 8150´s? Seems the on/off on this one is almost twice as high as has been reported previously (if I recall correctly...).
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post #20 of 773 Old 02-23-2009, 01:11 PM
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Here's a couple of 8130 screenshots I found on an italian forum :

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post #21 of 773 Old 02-23-2009, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tryg View Post

Got together last night with a few guys and projectors. A new Planar 8150 (Kris's) and a couple RS20's and an RS1.

The new planar looked fabulous for a 1 chipper. The best 1 chipper I've seen to date. I think we measured 17,000:1 on/off and 700:1 ansi.

I wonder how that was obtained compared to the original 8150. Just a firmware revision?
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post #22 of 773 Old 02-23-2009, 01:58 PM
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some modifications to the light path
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post #23 of 773 Old 02-23-2009, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tryg View Post

some modifications to the light path

So the 8150's rolling off the assembly line right now are different than the original production 8150's? Or was the unit you saw specially modified to increase the contrast?

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post #24 of 773 Old 02-23-2009, 04:14 PM - Thread Starter
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I've heard that Planar has done some tweaks to the light path compared to the original unit I reviewed last year. I think the fixed iris in the lens is also slightly tighter, but I am not positive on that.

Compared to the unit I reviewed last year the new unit I have on hand has double the contrast, higher ANSI, and is considerably sharper (Marantz territory). A must see for those in the market for a DLP or anyone considering a projector in this price range.

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post #25 of 773 Old 02-23-2009, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tryg View Post

Got together last night with a few guys and projectors. A new Planar 8150 (Kris's) and a couple RS20's and an RS1.

The new planar looked fabulous for a 1 chipper. The best 1 chipper I've seen to date. I think we measured 17,000:1 on/off and 700:1 ansi.

How much is native contrast? I tested the Epson 7500UB. I measured 4700:1 native and 27000:1 with the Iris engage. But without the cinema filter you can get as much as 60000:1 in contrast. I didn't feel it gave much more. So my thinking is that Iris contrast does help but the impact is limited. It can be good on paper but not obvious on the screen. I would prefer the Planar to have 5000:1 native and 10000:1 onff over 2000:1 native and 20000:1 onff.

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post #26 of 773 Old 02-23-2009, 07:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Well considering we were comparing it directly to the RS-20, which has over 20,000:1 native contrast, the impact was just as good on the screen as it was on paper. Black levels were outstanding for a single chip and intrascene contrast was actually better than the JVC with most of the clips. Add that to an obvious increase in MTF and detail and the Planar stood up considerably well and outperformed the JVC in many ways.

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post #27 of 773 Old 02-23-2009, 07:19 PM
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Ever since I was amazed by the Sharp Z20000 single chip projector I've wished I could put up with rainbows. Sigh. At least JVC is offering a lot of consolation to us rainbow sensitive viewers.
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post #28 of 773 Old 02-23-2009, 07:21 PM
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I lived with one of the original 8150s for a while. I liked it alote.
It had better blacks then my 11S2 and I liked the colors. It was softer then my S2 but I thought it looked more film like. I kept the 11S2 because the throw was to short for my needs on the 8150. I wish they offered a long throw.
Sounds like like they have made some improvements. Id be curious if several 8150s would now measure consistent with the new numbers or if this was a hand picked unit. Very nice numbers though indeed.





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post #29 of 773 Old 02-23-2009, 08:05 PM
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If I bought a pd8130 from a retailer now, would it be the updated version, or is there a possibility they still have the original ones in stock?
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post #30 of 773 Old 02-23-2009, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

Well considering we were comparing it directly to the RS-20, which has over 20,000:1 native contrast, the impact was just as good on the screen as it was on paper. Black levels were outstanding for a single chip and intrascene contrast was actually better than the JVC with most of the clips. Add that to an obvious increase in MTF and detail and the Planar stood up considerably well and outperformed the JVC in many ways.


Kris:

Specifically, how would a customer know if they were getting a 8150 with the new modifications?
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