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post #331 of 2424 Old 10-08-2009, 03:43 AM
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Would you rate Optoma HD82 better than W6000 in terms of picture quality?
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post #332 of 2424 Old 10-08-2009, 11:16 AM
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Having spent some more time with the projector, I am liking it more and more. I've got roughly 15 hours on the bulb now and I've tweaked the settings. I have had no issues with the iris although I don't know how to turn it off, unless it is solely governed by the dynamic black option which I prefer off as it appears to crush the blacks and compromise the shadow detail when it is on.

Regarding the black levels themselves, I am impressed with the intrascene black levels, a definitive improvement over the other pj's I've been using in my less than stellar viewing environment in terms of light control.

The only other issue that has cropped up for me is light leakage- I don't know how it impacts the actual image when I'm viewing something but there is clearly a bit of light leakage which Art referenced in his review. He was unbothered by it but I find it odd given that leakage seems to be non-existent among competitors.

One thing that is good for me- the vents are on the side of this projector so you can mount it close to a wall if you need to maximize throw.

Overall, it does what DLPs do in my opinion- offer a ton of pop, ansi contrast and deep, rich colors (which is not to say that other technologies fail in this regard). It also serves up some image noise which is becoming less noticeable to me on most material and I would have thought this was going to drive me nuts and become something I would obsess about. The one exception where it was bothersome was Battlestar Galactica which seemed particularly riddled with image noise, I have no idea as to why.

DLPs with their sharpness serve up a certain type of image that appears etched to a degree. When I first saw HD material on plasma it initially struck me that people appeared almost superimposed at times and while I've come to like this, detractors could decry that it appears unnatural. Lastly, the colors on the BenQ appear best to me when they look a bit cooler in terms of temperature than other technologies I've seen and used. Again, I happen to like it.

My whole experience with this reminds of an audiophile friend who is constantly tweaking his system and got fed up one day and put together a reference system for himself that he hoped would provide a sound worth setting and forgetting it. It was comprised of Audio Note gear if you're familiar, and this system played everything effortlessly. It was a smooth, warbling sound that created separation on the busiest of arrangements and no matter how much you cranked it, I never knew it was that loud until I tried to say something and couldn't hear my own words. It was impressive however, my buddy began to long for a pair of Paradigm Active 40s he had sold off. Maybe three months later, he bought a pair on audiogon and we gave them a listen. They were punchy as hell with a deep, tight bass and a world of energy and he started feeling a little disappointed by the Audio Note stuff.

I'm no audiophile and everything I say is purely my opinion but over time, it was clear that there were simply two personalities at play, both of which had merit. At the end of the day, the Audio Note clearly ruled the roost as it was simply better gear but it reminds of how I vacillate with my preference on images.

There are smoother images to be had for the same money, more "film like," if I'm using the term correctly and other refinements that may be preferable for many but this is not to say that this pj does not hold its own and then some with its existing feature set. It is a flavor and it's hard for me to pick one flavor and once I choose I am invariably going to miss the attributes of the others, even if I don't like the others as much as the one I picked. Regrettably perhaps, this will be the case for me until I can afford something so uncompromisingly good that I will have to find a new hobby. That's my dumb analogy du jour.

Dino
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post #333 of 2424 Old 10-08-2009, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

Well if we assume that's a 150" wide scope screen (and a lens is used ), you'd basically 1000 Lumens, so figure 1500 or so new ideally, assuming unity gain. That's well into "fun" (read quite possibly expensive) territory.

To me, that screams InFocus, like an IN83 or SP8602. Digital will disagree with me, but based on the reviews so far, I don't believe the W6000 can do that calibrated. Let me rephrase that, Digital will disagree with me on the necessity/desirability to calibrate to D65

No, actually I was talking about a 150" 16x9 screen (Elite Power Gain material spec'd at 1.8, but you know how numbers are).

I am currently using the InFocus 7210 and was waiting for the 8602 to show up... but the preliminary numbers from Art don't look to promising for it to be the "typical" InFocus light cannon. Unfortunately I only have about 20' maximum for throw distance which eliminates the IN83.

Still waiting to see what comes up with BenQ's W6k and its iris issue, the Epson 8500, and/or AE4k. It would appear from early information that the BenQ W6K would be the most promising on a big screen... if they WILL fix the iris issue. BenQ did come up with a firmware fix for the W5k, which gives me hope that they will follow through on the W6k also.

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post #334 of 2424 Old 10-08-2009, 12:47 PM
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I'm the only one having problems with DVD picture quality on the BenQ w6000? The colors reminds me of a windows pc in 8/16 bit mode
HD material looks stunning, but DVD is a mess.

I'm using my PS3 as DVD player and i also tried with my Cambridge DVD player through HDMI with same results. Been messing around with settings in the PS3 menu like RGB to YcBCr and scaling on/off, nothing works.

I got a feeling its something to do with the colorwheel..
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post #335 of 2424 Old 10-08-2009, 12:48 PM
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Sort of like this picture, but not quite that bad.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Di...eb_palette.png
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post #336 of 2424 Old 10-08-2009, 12:50 PM
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diznip,
are you hearing the Iris?
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post #337 of 2424 Old 10-08-2009, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiHoStevo View Post

No, actually I was talking about a 150" 16x9 screen (Elite Power Gain material spec'd at 1.8, but you know how numbers are).

I was being lazy didn't feel like calculating....

So that's (If my math doesn't fail me) 130.75"x73.5" = 66.75 sqft. Oddly enough, that's almost exactly the same area as a 2.35:1 150" wide screen (66.5 sqft).

So anyway, unity gain would be about 1000-1100 Lumens for 16ftL. 1.8 gain would be about 600.

Quote:
I am currently using the InFocus 7210 and was waiting for the 8602 to show up... but the preliminary numbers from Art don't look to promising for it to be the "typical" InFocus light cannon. Unfortunately I only have about 20' maximum for throw distance which eliminates the IN83.

According to PJC it "only" needs 20'2" to throw a 150" image.

Yeah, it will be interesting to see, if he got some demo unit that had quite a few hours on it, ie if the brightness had dropped already, that 600-750 would be about perfect for you.

Quote:
Still waiting to see what comes up with BenQ's W6k and its iris issue, the Epson 8500, and/or AE4k. It would appear from early information that the BenQ W6K would be the most promising on a big screen... if they WILL fix the iris issue. BenQ did come up with a firmware fix for the W5k, which gives me hope that they will follow through on the W6k also.

FWIW, I don't see the W6000 being any brighter once calibrated. PJC got about 600-700 Lumens calibrated when they reviewed the W6000.

Quote:
Originally Posted by s0ad View Post

I'm the only one having problems with DVD picture quality on the BenQ w6000? The colors reminds me of a windows pc in 8/16 bit mode
HD material looks stunning, but DVD is a mess.

I'm using my PS3 as DVD player and i also tried with my Cambridge DVD player through HDMI with same results. Been messing around with settings in the PS3 menu like RGB to YcBCr and scaling on/off, nothing works.

I got a feeling its something to do with the colorwheel..

Is the output format different for DVD than Blu-ray/HD? Or are you using a different source?

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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post #338 of 2424 Old 10-08-2009, 02:10 PM
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I have an upgrade question/dilema:

I have been enjoying my Epson 6500 for about a year now, but need more brigthness and miss the sharpness and colors of DLP. I would like to know if upgrading to the BenQ 6000 will be a noticeable improvement on brightness, and also not a downgrade on contrast from my Epson. I will probably upgrade my screen as well from a 120" diag to 133" (if the placement distance works in my room configuration).

Any advice is very much appreciated
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post #339 of 2424 Old 10-08-2009, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post


According to PJC it "only" needs 20'2" to throw a 150" image.

I would need an absolute dimensions on the IN83 to be sure... but the 20' I have is pushing the projector all the way back as far as I can get it in the duct where it would be mounted... any farther and it will actually be "inside" the a/c duct (it's already inside the a/c chase). So those extra 2.5 inches are just not available... which would leave a little white border on the screen... not to mention I would be using absolutely the entire lens which will not provide the sharpest image. But I have been looking at it.

If InFocus dumps the IN83's as it did the 7210's I might just be tempted beyond my ability to resist. [sort of hurt my feelings when I saw the price of "my precious" take such a dump after a couple of years... but such is the way of electronics :-) ]

Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

Yeah, it will be interesting to see, if he got some demo unit that had quite a few hours on it, ie if the brightness had dropped already, that 600-750 would be about perfect for you.

FWIW, I don't see the W6000 being any brighter once calibrated. PJC got about 600-700 Lumens calibrated when they reviewed the W6000.

Didn't you find it strange that Art's numbers were so much higher... with only engineering samples available my guess would be that they both had the same unit??? Unless before they shipped it out to Art they popped in a new bulb....

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post #340 of 2424 Old 10-08-2009, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QuantumCosmos View Post

I have an upgrade question/dilema:

I have been enjoying my Epson 6500 for about a year now, but need more brigthness and miss the sharpness and colors of DLP. I would like to know if upgrading to the BenQ 6000 will be a noticeable improvement on brightness, and also not a downgrade on contrast from my Epson. I will probably upgrade my screen as well from a 120" diag to 133" (if the placement distance works in my room configuration).

Any advice is very much appreciated

Cosmos......

I have to believe that the W6k would/will be a step down in contrast. Now whether you can actually visually detect the difference... probably depends on how much of a videophile you are... and what your HT is like. Unless you have a bat-cave with black velvet everywhere (including the ceiling and floors) the reflected light you are getting from your environment is all ready hammering your contrast ratio. (I remember Darin was even dressing in black velvet while taking his contrast readings... )

I have in the past been in the DLP camp due to "my perception" of the pop/wow difference of the DLP image vis a vie the LCD images. But I have not spent any time with the LCD products since the inorganic panels came out which has made a very large difference... I just personally have not seen what that difference is.

"In the Past" I have always felt that the DLP looked more like looking through a window at a scene, where LCD was always a bit flat and dull on the better LCD models (I think some people call this Film Like) and other LCD truly looked like you were peering through a screen door.

Now to be fair I have to state that thankfully I am not subject to RBE which I know can destroy the experience for some people... it did give one of my son-in-laws horrible headaches, but then I did not really consider that a negative .

Well after all this rambling... I have not really answered your question have I... I fear you will have to see the new DLP's with your own eyes to really make a viable determination.

There was one poster on the 6500 forum that used to have my DLP (InFocus 7210 older fairly high quality 720p dlp) and he felt the 6500 was a big step up from his dlp. So in the end it is only your eyes that matter. Which of course makes it tough because the vast majority of us never have a chance to see them all in person so we must rely on regular folks here at AVS and reviewers like Jason, Art, and several of the really knowledgeable folks here at AVS.

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post #341 of 2424 Old 10-08-2009, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

I was being lazy didn't feel like calculating....

So that's (If my math doesn't fail me) 130.75"x73.5" = 66.75 sqft. Oddly enough, that's almost exactly the same area as a 2.35:1 150" wide screen (66.5 sqft).

So anyway, unity gain would be about 1000-1100 Lumens for 16ftL. 1.8 gain would be about 600.



According to PJC it "only" needs 20'2" to throw a 150" image.

Yeah, it will be interesting to see, if he got some demo unit that had quite a few hours on it, ie if the brightness had dropped already, that 600-750 would be about perfect for you.



FWIW, I don't see the W6000 being any brighter once calibrated. PJC got about 600-700 Lumens calibrated when they reviewed the W6000.



Is the output format different for DVD than Blu-ray/HD? Or are you using a different source?

I put it on automatic in the ps3 menu. DVD and Blueray are running through HDMI on my PS3.
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post #342 of 2424 Old 10-08-2009, 04:13 PM
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Now to be fair I have to state that thankfully I am not subject to RBE which I know can destroy the experience for some people... it did give one of my son-in-laws horrible headaches, but then I did not really consider that a negative .

Ouch!
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post #343 of 2424 Old 10-08-2009, 05:32 PM
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FYI,
According to Art's latest W6000 "First Look" comments there is no answer regarding the IRIS but they did confirm that 24P is upconverted to 48P
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post #344 of 2424 Old 10-08-2009, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiHoStevo View Post

Cosmos......

I have to believe that the W6k would/will be a step down in contrast. Now whether you can actually visually detect the difference... probably depends on how much of a videophile you are... and what your HT is like. Unless you have a bat-cave with black velvet everywhere (including the ceiling and floors) the reflected light you are getting from your environment is all ready hammering your contrast ratio. (I remember Darin was even dressing in black velvet while taking his contrast readings... )

FWIW, it harms simultaneous CR but moreso at high APLs than low ones. That means that you don't need a bat cave to take advantage of or see the difference between On/Off CR.

Quote:
Originally Posted by s0ad View Post

I put it on automatic in the ps3 menu. DVD and Blueray are running through HDMI on my PS3.

Does that mean it switches to 480i for DVDs? Can you change it to upconvert and see if it works better?

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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post #345 of 2424 Old 10-08-2009, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

FWIW, it harms simultaneous CR but moreso at high APLs than low ones. That means that you don't need a bat cave to take advantage of or see the difference between On/Off CR.



Does that mean it switches to 480i for DVDs? Can you change it to upconvert and see if it works better?

When i press the info button on the remote for my projector it says 1080/50p thats when the upscaler is set to normal, on off it says 576/50p and with/out upscaling it still looks the same.
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post #346 of 2424 Old 10-08-2009, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

FWIW, it harms simultaneous CR but moreso at high APLs than low ones. That means that you don't need a bat cave to take advantage of or see the difference between On/Off CR.



Does that mean it switches to 480i for DVDs? Can you change it to upconvert and see if it works better?

Sorry for double post.
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post #347 of 2424 Old 10-08-2009, 08:25 PM
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The W6000 that I had wouldn't fill my 159" 16:9 screen with a measured (with a tape) throw of 204 3/8" (17' 3/8").

The maximum 16:9 image size with this throw measured 149 13/16" (149.8").
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post #348 of 2424 Old 10-08-2009, 08:32 PM
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Problem solved.

I just turned the lamp from economic to normal, that fixed the problem
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post #349 of 2424 Old 10-09-2009, 08:08 AM
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http://www.hifi4all.dk/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=62448

This illustrates the problem i'm having while watching dvds. Its called Clay Face and can be solved, i just need to change the CW delay although i cant find the CW delay in the ISF servicemenu :/
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post #350 of 2424 Old 10-09-2009, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elkhunter View Post

The W6000 that I had wouldn't fill my 159" 16:9 screen with a measured (with a tape) throw of 204 3/8" (17' 3/8").

The maximum 16:9 image size with this throw measured 149 13/16" (149.8").

So if you could please ~ How far back would the projector need to be (Minimum) to fill a 159" screen?

I ask because your numbers seem "real world" and differf from the numbers provided by the "Online" calculator.

Thanks in advance.
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post #351 of 2424 Old 10-09-2009, 04:20 PM
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I wanna try the calibration setting from projecterreviews.com, but i have absolutely no idea where i can change the RGB settings at the end.

It looks like

Gain

R = 48
G = 50
B = 49

Offset

R = 48
G = 50
B = 49

Been in the service menu and i found something that looks the same, but different values like:

Gain

R = + 512 etc.

Cant believe i have to change it all the way from 512 to 48 and so on..

Where can i change the things listed above, and how should i understand the settings compared with the gain/offset in whitebalance and Colortemp.

Im a newbie, so would be nice if anyone could help me out.

The link i’m referring to.

http://www.projectorreviews.com/benq....php#colortemp

Maybe i shouldnt mess around with the servicemenu or wont it be necessary?


Thanks in advance
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post #352 of 2424 Old 10-10-2009, 02:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s0ad View Post

Maybe i shouldnt mess around with the servicemenu or wont it be necessary?

You basically answered to your own question. Stick with the user menu gain/bias adjustments. User manuel is your friend and helps you to find where those adjustments are. I would help you more detailed if there was W6000's user manual online somewhere but I could not find it. But if the menu system in the W6000 is anything like in my W5000 you can do this like this: Select color temp to user 1, 2 or 3 and then you find below that selection menu item saying something like "color temp fine tuning" and there it is. It should not be very hard to find considering you have already entered to ISF and service menu which are more advanced then user menu.
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post #353 of 2424 Old 10-12-2009, 10:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Lebowski View Post

...if there was W6000's user manual online somewhere but I could not find it.

There's no downloadable manual on Benq's global part of their site, but you can find a manual on Benq's European part of their site (yes, there's an English one among those strange languages).
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post #354 of 2424 Old 10-17-2009, 09:57 AM
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Thought I'd try to breathe a little life back into this thread- I've got around 30 hours on the machine now and it seems to be hitting its stride.

I put in Art's recommended calibration tips and the image noise has ceased to be of any note for me- I've definitely not gotten used to it rather it appears less and less. I'm not sure why- maybe I've picked the right material or perhaps the projector is settling. This notion of settling may sound nuts but I'll be damn if I've ever owned a piece of gear that didn't have some break-in period before it performed as expected. A German mathematician friend has a strange theory on why this is so- likening a/v gear to an organism thrown into new environs...anyway.

I'm surprised there aren't more owners of this machine given what it does so well. The calibrated brightness is effortless and it has that DLP pop and razor sharpness. Excellent image depth and having most recently come from lcd, the ansi contrast improvement and color saturation are appreciably better.

I was wondering if the new panny would pretty much kill everything 3k and under but the best modes brightness are something I couldn't live with and given my place is a dust magnet, it would still be major concern.

Dino
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post #355 of 2424 Old 10-17-2009, 10:47 AM
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could you post some screen shots of sd material and bluray? im looking into this pj as an option in comparison to a planar 8150 which, should not be a fair comparison since the planar is double the price, but nonetheless im really interested in sharpness... which is my absolute top priority in a pj. thanks.

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post #356 of 2424 Old 10-17-2009, 07:29 PM
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Yes, I want to get this model too but there are 2 things that really make me hesitated.

1) 2x or 4x speed colorwheel : I had a Mit. HC3100 now n I had no problem with RBE with 5x speed but definitely yes at 4x speed. I had a chance to watch the W6000 in person n I did see quite a few rainbow when the shop was playing back 'The Dark Knight'.

2) I know 2 previous owners of W5000 n both told me that their unit had quite a bit of QC problem n some of them are still not fixed yet as of today. Just wonder if all the basic problem are solved or not on the W6000 since it is just a clone of the W5000.

Man see things as they were n say why. I dream of things that never were, n say why not ....... A Perfect PROJECTOR
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post #357 of 2424 Old 10-17-2009, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dizwip View Post

Thought I'd try to breathe a little life back into this thread- I've got around 30 hours on the machine now and it seems to be hitting its stride.

I put in Art's recommended calibration tips and the image noise has ceased to be of any note for me- I've definitely not gotten used to it rather it appears less and less. I'm not sure why- maybe I've picked the right material or perhaps the projector is settling. This notion of settling may sound nuts but I'll be damn if I've ever owned a piece of gear that didn't have some break-in period before it performed as expected. A German mathematician friend has a strange theory on why this is so- likening a/v gear to an organism thrown into new environs...anyway.

I'm surprised there aren't more owners of this machine given what it does so well. The calibrated brightness is effortless and it has that DLP pop and razor sharpness. Excellent image depth and having most recently come from lcd, the ansi contrast improvement and color saturation are appreciably better.

I was wondering if the new panny would pretty much kill everything 3k and under but the best modes brightness are something I couldn't live with and given my place is a dust magnet, it would still be major concern.

Dino

You bring up valid points. I also wonder why there is not an increasing owner count on this thread. It is a very new unit. That may a partial answer.

However, one has to wonder what the impact of the history of the PE-7700 has for AVS members.

As an owner of the 7700 in use since December '05 I am a typical long term owner. The 3 year warranty was fully employed. At first to deal with what can honestly be declared the: "Lamp Disaster". Since then fan failures x2. The last time with one day left in warranty.

I will attest to wonderful warranty service by BenQ over the life of my PE-7700 unit. And it is still looking pretty good at 133" as I type with no problems since January '09. But a send out 4 times in 3 years, perhaps a bit excessive.

The W5000 did not seem to gain traction. Based on lens throw?

Now the W6000. Looks like a contender. Then Panasonic comes out with the AE4000, may have changed the game.

Joe
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post #358 of 2424 Old 10-18-2009, 03:49 AM
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I'd like to see a comparison among the AE4000, the Epson 8500UB and the BenQ. I need lots of lumens because I have ambient light in the livingroom.

I can never quite figure out the lumen comparisons. Who's spec is accurate, and how the reviewers test for best and brightest mode? Of the 3, which will give me the brightest picture projected on a white wall at a 144" diagonal with the PJ about 18 feet from the screen?

Also, I find that these 2000 hour bulbs no longer satisfy me (I have a 2nd PJ the Mits 5500 that has a 5000 hour eco mode) and want a PJ with a 4000 hour bulb life at least. Among the three which do you think falls closest to my ideal of bright picture and longer lasting bulb?

Right now my main PJ is the Optoma HD806 (2000 lumens) and it works fairly well. The picture is not ideal, even at night, but it does give me reasonable daytime viewing with the curtains open.

Thanks, look forward to some posts addressing these points.
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post #359 of 2424 Old 10-25-2009, 10:20 AM
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Who's selling this PJ other than ProjectorPeople? Any rebate, like an extended warranty or cash?

I'd really like to get this unit, so I'll be selling my light cannon Optoma 806. Anyone interested?
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post #360 of 2424 Old 10-29-2009, 08:58 PM
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I was comparing the benq to the epson 8500 over at Art's site.

3 pictures I pulled from both Art's reviews really seemed to favor the benq in sharpness, shadow detail, and ansi contrast (pop?).
(1) text on computer screen in movie (space cowboys?)
(2) joker in dark knight
(3) waterfall in indiana jones

Anyone else impressed by the benq after viewing those pics vs the epson?
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