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post #1981 of 2424 Old 01-04-2012, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigheadwillie View Post

Hello everyone, and thanks in advance for any replies. I'm looking to buy my first projector, and i have a few questions. It will be used for pretty much equal amounts gaming/sports/movies. I will be going with a white 92 or 100inch 1.0 gain screen. The room will have some ambient light coming from a table lamp and track lighting in the back of the room, so im looking for something with a lot of lumens in a decent picture mode. The projectors that i have on my short list are the LG CF181d, Epson 8350, Epson 8700ub and Benq W6000.

My questions are

1)Has anyone measured the input lag of the w6000? I wanted to make sure it was pretty low for when i game. I know the Epson 8350 has been measured around 20ms...

2) How do the black levels compare on the W6000 to the Epson 8350 and LG CF181d.

1) I've done some more gaming since I've had the unit, but it's all been Skyrim, which isn't terribly dependent on reaction time. But gaming has still been great.

2) I haven't tried an 8350 but you will find there is a huge difference in light output. If you want ambient light, the W6000 will look great.. if you have a light controlled room, the W6000 is not necessary. Having said that. I have a pitch black light controlled room (dark wall color, velour screen wall and black ceiling) and I'm very happy with the W6000. For the numbers I wanted the 8350 was juuust on the low end for "Best Mode" light output. The W6000 should have suitable light output, in low lamp mode, the whole life of the bulb, and that was ultimately the reason I picked it up in the first place.

Anyhow I think an issue when talking about black levels is what is expected by the person processing the information. Art can say the W6000 has great black levels, but what does that mean to your eyes?

Fact is this thing puts out a lot of light (even in low lamp mode) and it means on your screen, black is not the absence of light. But the high contrast of the unit will make you perceive black in the picture data to be the absence of light. Whereas it's really a light grey (of course depending on your screen gain).

I'm curious to try out a Neutral density filter for $#!ts and giggles, but I haven't bothered yet. Not sure how I would hold it in place yet and I've got other issues I need to address (need new screen material to address the moire)
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post #1982 of 2424 Old 01-04-2012, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biomed_eng_2000 View Post

To W6000 users,
When I set my Iris to about 84 (the default max) using "DB Aperture Position Calibration" I get that diagonal line on the right (see picture)...do I have a bad iris? I have to set it a lot brighter (to about 60) to get rid of that line. Since I just got the projector, should I return it and get another one? Or all they all like this?


Yeah I came across this. As to whether it's normal, or what Position Calibration actually does and how it's supposed to work and how you're supposed to use it, I have no idea.
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post #1983 of 2424 Old 01-04-2012, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HuskerOmaha View Post

New Issue:

I thought it was my xbox360, but now it has happened while watching directv feed as well. Passing through a Onkyo NR1007.

After a few hours or more of use (total usage hours~250 on lamp and unit) my W6000 will fade to black or very dark grey. I can't see anything. This is while playing xbox. If I hit the xbox controller to go to the menu, it goes bright again, but then darkens.

Now it is doing it with cable.

Third time in past two weeks. Last two times I have shut it down for an hour and both times it has been fine for a week.

Thoughts? Is this the auto iris happening? I purchased this unit this past summer, still <1 year (still on warranty).

Mfg Date May 2011.

Sounds very similar to the problem I had with the first unit I've since returned. On scene changes it would just go black. But if the iris was turned off it was fine landing the finger squarely on the Iris.
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post #1984 of 2424 Old 01-04-2012, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigheadwillie View Post

Hello everyone, and thanks in advance for any replies. I'm looking to buy my first projector, and i have a few questions. It will be used for pretty much equal amounts gaming/sports/movies. I will be going with a white 92 or 100inch 1.0 gain screen. The room will have some ambient light coming from a table lamp and track lighting in the back of the room, so im looking for something with a lot of lumens in a decent picture mode. The projectors that i have on my short list are the LG CF181d, Epson 8350, Epson 8700ub and Benq W6000.

My questions are

1)Has anyone measured the input lag of the w6000? I wanted to make sure it was pretty low for when i game. I know the Epson 8350 has been measured around 20ms...

2) How do the black levels compare on the W6000 to the Epson 8350 and LG CF181d.

In the same boat as you as I need a "living room" projector. Any thoughts on the Panasonic PT-AR100U as well? That one seems to be quite bright.
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post #1985 of 2424 Old 01-04-2012, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Admiral Ackbar View Post

In the same boat as you as I need a "living room" projector. Any thoughts on the Panasonic PT-AR100U as well? That one seems to be quite bright.

Certainly worth considering, so long as you're OK with LCD (not me, alas).

A great pity it lacks the motorised lens shift, zoom and Lens Memory function of the older PT-AE4000.


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post #1986 of 2424 Old 01-04-2012, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taylor View Post

1).......Anyhow I think an issue when talking about black levels is what is expected by the person processing the information. Art can say the W6000 has great black levels, but what does that mean to your eyes?

Fact is this thing puts out a lot of light (even in low lamp mode) and it means on your screen, black is not the absence of light. But the high contrast of the unit will make you perceive black in the picture data to be the absence of light. Whereas it's really a light grey (of course depending on your screen gain).

I'm curious to try out a Neutral density filter for $#!ts and giggles, but I haven't bothered yet. Not sure how I would hold it in place yet and I've got other issues I need to address (need new screen material to address the moire)

I was curious too, but I'm now determined to nail down the best Iris / DB Aperture settings instead.

Have you tried this?


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post #1987 of 2424 Old 01-04-2012, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Electric_Haggis View Post

Certainly worth considering, so long as you're OK with LCD (not me, alas).

A great pity it lacks the motorised lens shift, zoom and Lens Memory function of the older PT-AE4000.

I have a Pioneer 5080 Plasma... have never had an LCD (other than a computer monitor). I guess I don't understand the real differences between and LCD and DLP projector (I understand the technology but not how it's actually going to "look" different).

Also, which of the two would give the best picture in the daytime in a room with quite a few windows?
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post #1988 of 2424 Old 01-05-2012, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taylor View Post

I'm curious to try out a Neutral density filter for $#!ts and giggles, but I haven't bothered yet. Not sure how I would hold it in place yet and I've got other issues I need to address (need new screen material to address the moire)

That would be a good idea. I don't know much about filters and looked online for a shop. There are different strengths, from what I saw there are ND 101/102/103 which reduce light by 1/2/3 f-stops (need to read about it as I don't know how it translates with projectors light output). Filter sizes are various also, found a 72mm. How do you attach those in front of the lens? I have to figure this also.
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post #1989 of 2424 Old 01-05-2012, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electric_Haggis View Post

I was curious too, but I'm now determined to nail down the best Iris / DB Aperture settings instead.

Have you tried this?

Nailing down the best settings or a filter? No on the filter. I'm just using.. I think, your settings. I must say the iris changes are fairly subtle this way. But the white crush annoys me more at this time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolme View Post

How do you attach those in front of the lens? I have to figure this also.

Exactly. How?

The projector puts out a lot of light leaving something as simple as tape off the list considering the odd lens ring on this unit.

But it will have to reside inside the ring for me as I have an A-Lens and it's already touching the ring. I'll actually have to pull my PJ back a half foot (I hope that's enough) to reduce the zoom so that I don't have some light hitting the corner of one of the lens elements. If when moving it back it leaves some space between the A-lens and the 6000's lens ring, I may be able to suspend the filter to the A-lens body using tape (at least to see how well it works).

Anyhow since picking up the 6000 I have a number of changes I need to make as it relates to mounting and the screen that are all a little more critical to me than greyish blacks.

Actually an annoying thing about this PJ is 1.85:1 material.. I haven't thought to look yet, but can I use an overscan setting to get this to "zoom" so the top and bottom meet my screen? My optoma HD70 didn't seen to do this.. not sure how/why yet as I always thought it should. Maybe if I put it in LetterBox mode I can just widen the picture out a touch with the alens? Sorry.. just something I remembered from watching The Host last night and I was too lazy to bother fiddling and just wanted to ENJOY the projector.
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post #1990 of 2424 Old 01-05-2012, 11:13 AM
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I asked in the W7000 thread about our problem since it's the same housing and they were talking about filters they were using. I'll post back if i know more.
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post #1991 of 2424 Old 01-05-2012, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taylor View Post

Nailing down the best settings or a filter? No on the filter. I'm just using.. I think, your settings. I must say the iris changes are fairly subtle this way. But the white crush annoys me more at this time.


That's what I meant (after all, you haven't used a filter yet).

Weird that you're getting white crushing / clipping with those settings. You shouldn't be getting any.

If so, you should be able to easily dial down your aperture settings until it's gone.


The prison scene on Chapter 2 of Batman Begins is the best test I've yet seen for this.
Pause on Christian Bale's closeup and watch the highlights...


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post #1992 of 2424 Old 01-06-2012, 05:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Electric_Haggis View Post

Weird that you're getting white crushing / clipping with those settings. You shouldn't be getting any.

I'm not getting crush with those settings. I was with the default where the iris was more noticeably working. I find the changes with your settings to be subtle to the point I'm not sure it's doing much, but no white crush, which is more important to me right now.

I could get the crush easily just by attempting to exit PS3 BD playback or the XBL login or Skyrim title screen on the 360. No problems there. I really should post those photos just so everyone else can see.
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post #1993 of 2424 Old 01-06-2012, 05:21 AM
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Just wondering....do you guys just plug your PJ into the wall? Or do you use a power conditioner or UPS? As most PJs are far away from your other components, are you guys using the powerbridge thing or similar?
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post #1994 of 2424 Old 01-06-2012, 05:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taylor View Post

I'm not getting crush with those settings. I was with the default where the iris was more noticeably working. I find the changes with your settings to be subtle to the point I'm not sure it's doing much, but no white crush, which is more important to me right now.

I could get the crush easily just by attempting to exit PS3 BD playback or the XBL login or Skyrim title screen on the 360. No problems there. I really should post those photos just so everyone else can see.

What I find interesting is that order matters in regards to getting white crush. I can see it in a movie as I'm watching, but jump back to that scene and it looks fine. It's only when the preceding scene(s) cause the iris to close down, then it doesn't quite open up enough to avoid crushing a bright area.

Reducing the iris action must avoid this situation. Although I seem to get it fairly seldom, so my person preference is to live with that in trade for considerably better black levels in dark scenes (I've always been particularly annoyed by very greyish dark scenes).
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post #1995 of 2424 Old 01-06-2012, 05:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hingis_fan View Post

Just wondering....do you guys just plug your PJ into the wall? Or do you use a power conditioner or UPS? As most PJs are far away from your other components, are you guys using the powerbridge thing or similar?

I run the power cord through in-wall electrical rated conduit through my ceiling and then out of the wall where my rack is, plugged into a UPS.

You could get a whole house conditioner and surge protector on the mains... around here they're about $500 plus installation. Something I should probably do at some point. But right now I just plug anything worth a couple hundred and more into a UPS on battery backup.

I think it's pretty critical your PJ powers off properly, so surge only, IMO, isn't enough.
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post #1996 of 2424 Old 01-06-2012, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by hingis_fan View Post

Just wondering....do you guys just plug your PJ into the wall? Or do you use a power conditioner or UPS? As most PJs are far away from your other components, are you guys using the powerbridge thing or similar?

You definitely want to have your projector plugged into a UPS battery backup. That way you can shut down the PJ in the event of a power outage and have time for it's fan to properly cool down the bulb. A few power failures without the fan cooling the bulb can dramatically reduce the life of the bulb.
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post #1997 of 2424 Old 01-06-2012, 11:20 PM
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Quick question about keystone. I was at +3 on the keystone (the one on the left....vertical?) to get a square image. Running test patterns produced alot of moire (distortion), so I switched the keystone to 0, and the moire went away.

The picture is about an 1/4" in at the top sides (like a trapazoid) with no keystone. I can probably live with that, however, is there any way to reduce this? I tried angling the PJ up and using lens shift, but it didn't change enough to make a difference.

Regarding lens shift, mine (the lever) only seems to move in the lower 1/3rd of the large slot where the lever is. In other words, I'm wondering if I'm getting the full range of lens shift. Do you need to turn the lever to give it more range? At about 15' shooting on a 120" screen, lens shift moves the image up or down maybe 10" or so. Does that sound right?

The lens of the PJ is mounted about level with or a few inches higher than the screen, which I figured would be right in the zone. Hmmm.

Any tips would be great, and pics are in the build thread, but if there is something someone wants to see, let me know and I'll get it. Thanks for the help.


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post #1998 of 2424 Old 01-07-2012, 03:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legierk View Post

Quick question about keystone. I was at +3 on the keystone (the one on the left....vertical?) to get a square image. Running test patterns produced alot of moire (distortion), so I switched the keystone to 0, and the moire went away.

The picture is about an 1/4" in at the top sides (like a trapazoid) with no keystone. I can probably live with that, however, is there any way to reduce this? I tried angling the PJ up and using lens shift, but it didn't change enough to make a difference.

Regarding lens shift, mine (the lever) only seems to move in the lower 1/3rd of the large slot where the lever is. In other words, I'm wondering if I'm getting the full range of lens shift. Do you need to turn the lever to give it more range? At about 15' shooting on a 120" screen, lens shift moves the image up or down maybe 10" or so. Does that sound right?

The lens of the PJ is mounted about level with or a few inches higher than the screen, which I figured would be right in the zone. Hmmm.

Any tips would be great, and pics are in the build thread, but if there is something someone wants to see, let me know and I'll get it. Thanks for the help.

If you look at page 14 of the online manual, the last column shows how far the top of the screen can be below the centerline of the lens. It's only a few inches. OTOH, it should go very far the other way (so that the image is well above your screen). If it doesn't, then there might be a problem.

Nevertheless, it won't go more than about 7.5" below the centerline of the lens according to the manual for a 120" 16x9 screen. It sounds like your projector is a little too high and you are angling the projector downward to hit the screen (causing the need for keystone). You probably need to add an extension to your mount (or move the screen up).
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post #1999 of 2424 Old 01-07-2012, 07:20 AM
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Thanks for that. You know, I thought the PJ HAD to be above the screen. I even built a recess in my 8' ceiling to mount the PJ thinking that if didn't the PJ would be too low. Yeah, and I HATED geometry in school.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by legierk View Post

Thanks for that. You know, I thought the PJ HAD to be above the screen. I even built a recess in my 8' ceiling to mount the PJ thinking that if didn't the PJ would be too low. Yeah, and I HATED geometry in school.

A lot of DLP's have a fixed offset which do require the projector be above the screen. Not so with the W6000.
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post #2001 of 2424 Old 01-07-2012, 11:50 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by talon95 View Post

A lot of DLP's have a fixed offset which do require the projector be above the screen. Not so with the W6000.


Do you know if the "middle setting" vertically is biased in the up or down direction? Is it setup to bias a ceiling setup at all as far as lens shift goes? I'm assuming the lens is right in the middle of the image when lens shift is centered but I thought I would ask. Thanks
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post #2002 of 2424 Old 01-07-2012, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Jimbo85281 View Post

Do you know if the "middle setting" vertically is biased in the up or down direction? Is it setup to bias a ceiling setup at all as far as lens shift goes? I'm assuming the lens is right in the middle of the image when lens shift is centered but I thought I would ask. Thanks

Yes (centered), page 16 of the manual.
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post #2003 of 2424 Old 01-08-2012, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjyap View Post

I had done extensive comparison on iris and gamma modification relation based on few movie. I found out that when the iris shutdown to the minimum, you will notice white crush. I fine-tune the iris max position and to minimize the white crush, the settings of max position should be 67. I hope BENQ will address this issue as the iris shutdown, the gamma curve need to be tweak to avoid white crush. Iris at position 67 is not as dark as 75 so now I'm thinking off a different mod. As W6000 is very bright on the top end, I'm thinking to increase my current iris position from +35 to +15 which give around 21ftL on my 114" BW screen. Then I'll mod a fix iris in front of the lamp module to reduce the light output to around 16ftL. This will cut the black level without the white crush issue.


Rjyap, just wondering how you went with this?



Having taken the DI as low as it can go, I'm very keen to sacrifice a little brightness for deeper black level, and am considering either ND filter (which one?) or the Iris mod mentioned here.

Does anyone have any thoughts or recommendations?

Thanks very much in advance....


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post #2004 of 2424 Old 01-08-2012, 04:59 PM
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Question about the ISF mode.

I see the option greyed out in the menu and I have the code, but I a, not sure when or where to enter it.

Can anyone explain it to me to pm where to enter the code?

Thanks,

Mike

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PSN: BigMikeRich
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post #2005 of 2424 Old 01-09-2012, 08:03 PM
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To Mike,
I think you may have to be in a User mode to enter ISF. Not sure though.

In my world, I've determined that, yes, I need to lower the PJ to correct the keystone issues....living with a 1/4" offset on each side for the time being. (On a 120" screen, its really hardly noticable).

In other news, is there a way to reset the PJ to the factory defaults? I mean EVERY setting. Thx.
Keith


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post #2006 of 2424 Old 01-10-2012, 02:15 PM
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Anyone?

(See two posts back)


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post #2007 of 2424 Old 01-11-2012, 02:56 AM
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I'm thinking about the ND filter as well and will ask Mark in the W7000 thread as he has done it and knows which one to use and how to attach it to the projector.
The other mod involves an oval aluminum foil painted in black. I can't really imagine how to make it work. Do you have to open the projector?
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post #2008 of 2424 Old 01-11-2012, 04:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolme View Post

I'm thinking about the ND filter as well and will ask Mark in the W7000 thread as he has done it and knows which one to use and how to attach it to the projector.

That'd be great. Please do!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolme View Post

The other mod involves an oval aluminum foil painted in black. I can't really imagine how to make it work. Do you have to open the projector?

Sounds like it... Anyone?



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post #2009 of 2424 Old 01-11-2012, 05:22 PM
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I've been looking everywhere online for some input lag numbers for the w6000 with no luck. Does anyone know what the lag is, or could someone with the projector possibly run the test? Thanks
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post #2010 of 2424 Old 01-12-2012, 04:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electric_Haggis View Post

Rjyap, just wondering how you went with this?



Having taken the DI as low as it can go, I'm very keen to sacrifice a little brightness for deeper black level, and am considering either ND filter (which one?) or the Iris mod mentioned here.

Does anyone have any thoughts or recommendations?

Thanks very much in advance....

I had done the iris mod on the lamp module which cut the max light output to around 12ft/L and black looks acceptable to me. I want to try ND filter but most of the common ND2 filter cut half of the light. I'm looking for ND filter that cut the light around 25% but ND 1.5 filter is very expensive.

The iris mod is quite simple. Just get a aluminium foil and paint with matte black BBQ paint which is heat resistant. Then cut an oval shape and put it in front of the lamp module. A better mod that suppose to increase CR is to put the iris between the DLP chip and the lens but that would required opening up the projector.
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