Epson Calibration Guide! (1080, 1080UB, 6100, 6500UB, 7500UB) - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 732 Old 06-17-2009, 02:11 PM
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Ok here are my settings for Dynamic mode on low lamp:
brightness -8
contrast 9
color saturation -4
tint -4
sharpness standard
color temp 6500k
skin tone 0
Iris off for calibration

RGB:
Offset R -19, G 0, B 0, Gain R 25, G 0, B -12

RGBCMY:
Hue R -1, G 64, B -4, C 3, M 35, Y -37
Saturation R 7, G 36, B -18, C 64, M 2, Y 5

Green and Cyan are maxed out for saturation. I couldn't get them to the proper percentages but they are close. I did get the hue perfect for all colors though and the rest of them all hit the percentages perfectly. Of course not having brightness control affects the Y value for each color. Some are close but not perfect.

Gamma: left to right not touching the first or the last
-7, -2, -6, -6, -8, -7, -13

Gamma doesn't seem to measure well below 30. If I set it to what the spread sheet calls for dark areas look cartoonish. Even at -2 it isn't quite perfect. I played around with it after calibrating and I think -5 looks the best. I am not sure why I have a problem with only the second to last gamma step. If I set it to what the spread sheet calls for then I would have it at +6! That is completely different than the rest of the steps.

I attached a copy of the HCFR file. I don't know how to run the color scale. It says to display "red primary" but I don't know what that means. I assume it means to display a 100% color brightness window but it could also mean to display a 100% saturation window. Which one is it?

 

june15dynamiclow.zip 4.4033203125k . file
Attached Files
File Type: zip june15dynamiclow.zip (4.4 KB, 8 views)
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post #272 of 732 Old 06-17-2009, 02:59 PM
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beekermartin,

My apologies I should have posted the instructions for color scale, etc. I will try to get it out before tomorrow. But you are are correct a 100% color brightness window, or a
100% saturation window, will do so long as it is a window and not fullscreen.

A 100 10% color window is easier than a saturation window as it allows you to go directly to the next color, skipping 0%, 25%, etc -Measure both primaries and secondaries, it will ask you to measure white do this as well. If you measure ALL saturations then you have to use all the saturation windows 0%, 25%, 50%, 75%, and 100%, white is not used during the saturation measurement.

Your HCFR and Excel files are not attached.

Regarding readings, how far are you positioning the meter from the screen in inches, is it at the same degree as the opposite angle from where the light falls from the projector (example >), did you make sure when placing the meter that you got the highest possible reading before starting?

If you have the above all done then it is the meter and you are most probably better off with what you have done, a visual setting for Gammas at 30 and below.

Hope this helps.
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post #273 of 732 Old 06-17-2009, 03:19 PM
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I position the sensor centered in the lower part of the windows that are displayed. I project a 100% white window and adjust the sensor until it gives the highest reading. It is @19 inches aways from the screen. I have tried moving the sensor closer and further away but it doesn't change the measurement much. I have a RP CRT below the screen. I stand the tripod on top of the RP CRT. That puts the sensor @ 19 inches away from the screen.

I also let the projector and sensor "warm up" for about a half hour before I start calibrating.

The file is now there. I don't know what happened.
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post #274 of 732 Old 06-17-2009, 04:43 PM
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beekermartin,

Looks good for a Dynamic (Dynamic will never be perfect), Gamma looks good, in Greyscale it seems (to me) you are running out of red - maybe lowering contrast might help, can you download the Excel file, in order to view saturations, etc? Your Dynamic and mine seem fairly similar except I did not work on the Gamma as I preferred Natural, so your Gamma is way better than mine.

I think you would get better recommendations from Bill Mitchell and stereomandan, as they are more experienced than I.

Does this look better than your natural?

Looking forward to your reply.
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post #275 of 732 Old 06-17-2009, 04:59 PM
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I am running out of red above 90. If I lower the contrast to the point I don't run out of red the ftl drops a lot. That offsets the point of using dynamic mode in the first place.

I think it looks good overall. Natural looks, well more natural but it is much dimmer.

I watched The Express on BR. Some shots looked incredible and it is an excellent movie. I tried to watch Twilight on BR last night. That movie has a very strange color palette and the movie was absolutely terrible. I think I watched about a half hour before I ejected it and returned it to netflix.

Overall I am happy with the calibrated dynamic mode and low lamp. I think I can live with it until I find a good deal on a 1080ub or 6500ub.
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post #276 of 732 Old 06-17-2009, 08:27 PM
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beekermartin,

Running out of red at 90, I am led to understand, is not a great problem as movies stay at 90 for less than 10% and often less than 5% of the time, with the exception of cartoons. At least that was the way it was explained to me. Stereomandan, care to comment?

I am glad that it looks good, after all this calibrating you have done it most probably looks better than over 90% of the PJs that are operating out there, including those that cost much more but are not calibrated, including my poorly calibrated "Dynamic". Now that you did yours I will have to go back and redo my "Dynamic".

From what I have seen from other HCFR files, and because like me you like high ftLs, I think you might be happier with the 6500UB versus the 1080UB. The numbers oft quoted for the 1080UB versus the 6500UB are not the same. Some sites have changed their measuring system, and while they look the same they are probably not the same. Something you might want to think about, although the 1080UB, from all accounts, is an excellent projector. You may be able find either one in a government auction considering the unfortunate plight of many homeowners.

If you get the 6500UB I will be very jealous.

Good luck and thank you for the reply.
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post #277 of 732 Old 06-18-2009, 04:04 AM
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thanx to beer and all his efforts going to try these settiongs. as small said it will look better than most units out there and ofcourse from the factory defualts...

do u have the natural seetings you did i project on a smaller screen and wanted to see how it is.... also

thanx beer

would a spyder colorimeter also be good.. as i might be able to get a good deal on it...
thanx
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post #278 of 732 Old 06-18-2009, 05:52 AM
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hi tried your settings... loooks godd needed to drop the reg gain as there was too much for me otherwise great looking picture its like 3D

would like to see natrual mode if you hav ethe settings

great work Beer

Jealous yes i was looking at the tw3000 here i think thats the 6500ub not sure... here it was 1 thousand plus more... for the same money i could get the tw2000 as it is a better unit as i have been told..... but a thousand dollars more wasnt worth it not just yet but i as beer will be keeping an i out for the tw2000/1080ub if i get a good deal on it...

thnax again beer
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post #279 of 732 Old 06-18-2009, 03:20 PM
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d4g,

I think, from reading online reviews, the tw3000 is the Epson 6100 in the US, and the tw2000 is the Epson 6500UB, but I could be wrong. From what I have read Spyders are not that good and are somewhat slower at reading and that would be a real pain. They also, if I am not mistaken from what I have read, have issues with plasma screens. So if you have a plasma TV you might not be able to calibrate it.

Can anyone clarify for sure.
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post #280 of 732 Old 06-18-2009, 03:29 PM
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knd,

Both low lamp natural and high lamp natural calibrations look great, you must have spent some considerable time getting them so precise. Personally I prefer the high "Y" (ftL) in high lamp. Living room, as Borat would say, well that "maybe not". You obviously have this calibration stuff "nailed".

That is my two cents.
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post #281 of 732 Old 06-18-2009, 04:36 PM
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beekermartin,

Here it is.

Colors:

If you want to run just the primaries go to "Measures" "Primary colors" on HCFR. On the AVS HD 709 Disk Version 1.3 go to "Color HCFR Window" "100% Color".

Do the following as the final run to complete your report.

To run both primaries and secondaries go "Measures" "Primary and Secondary colors" on HCFR. On the AVS HD 709 Disk Version 1.3 go to "Color HCFR Window" "100% Color". Because it also requires you to measure white you will get a "Contrast" reading on the first page of the report where the number measurements are, it will be next to and right of the Gamma reading one-quarter of the way down on the page.

Saturations:

On the HCFR program go to "Measures" "Saturations" and either "Primary colors" or for the final report or testing "All Colors". On the AVS HD 709 Disk Version 1.3 go to "Color HCFR Window" "Saturations".

Transfer readings to the excel spreadsheet to make the fine ajustments using "stereomandan"'s 75% method.

When actually calibrating to "stereomandan"'s 75% method put up the 75% "Saturation" window of the color you are adjusting, not the 0%, 25%, 50%, or 100% window, adjust you x,y, and Ys there (Hue, Saturation and Luminance).

Note Well:

Always wait 6 to 10 seconds for the signal to quieten down before taking the reading.

Note on Samsung Players:

On some Samsung players like mine the BD-P2550, with the latest firmware installed, you have to turn off the 24 FPS pulldown to get past the menus on the AVS HD 709 Blu-Ray Disk Version 1.3, and maybe other versions, or all you will see is fuzzy lines. The Samsung BD-UP5000 is able to play both Blu-ray and HD disks, if you cannot get the Blu-ray AVS HD 709 Version 1.3 to play use the HD version.

_________________________________________

Hope this helps and if not clear enough let me know and I will re-write it, as I plan on adding it to the checklist. Please let me know either way.
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post #282 of 732 Old 06-18-2009, 05:14 PM
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I think the problem I'm having is that I'm using the HD DVD version of AVS HD 709. I have a Samsung BD-UP5000. The BR version of AVS HD 709 doesn't work on it. Luckily the HD DVD version does. The HD DVD menu is different than the BR version.

My options for color are 75%, 100% and there is a seperate saturation option on the bottom. When I go into saturation it displays a color window at 0%, 25%, 50%, 75%, and 100%. I used the 75% saturation window like this guide says to calibrate. I will take a picture of the menu and post when I have a chance.

Anyway, I assume I should use the 100% color window when measuring right?
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post #283 of 732 Old 06-18-2009, 05:45 PM
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beekermartin,

Good point, my Samsung BD-P2550 (Blu-ray only, no HD) also has a problem if I leave the the 24fps pull-down on, I have to turn it off to view anything after the menus. I should have noted that. If your Samsung BD-UP5000 has this 2:2/2:1 24 fps pulldown option turn it off and the AVS HD 709 Blu-ray disk Version 1.3 should work fine.

However as your player handles both Blu-ray and HD it should be fine BUT if you play mostly Blu-ray disks the color coding might be different. Calibrating using a HD disk but using the 709 specs may give you odd results. I am not sure about this but you might want to post this question on the HCFR forum and let us all know what the answer is.

It might mean that you have to do two calibrations one for HD and the other for Blu-ray, but as stated I am not sure if this assumption is correct.

Later addition:

It seems HD and Blu-ray both use 709 so I think this is a non-issue, but you might want to check. Also you might, if you can get the Blu-ray disk to run (possibly borrowing a player from a friend - preferably a Samsung BD player), check to see if they give you the same results when you run the measures. That I think would resolve the question as to whether or not you need two different calibrations.

Use the 100% window for color.

Yes in Saturations when calibrating for the 75% method, by which I mean measuring and actually adjusting the x, y, and Y(s) use the 75% window in "Saturation", not the 0%, 25%, 50%, or 100% saturation window.

Your proof reading comments are very helpfull and thought provoking, thank you. I adjusted the previous post to reflect your comments, what do you think, is it clearer?

Hope this helps.
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post #284 of 732 Old 06-19-2009, 04:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smallpooldad View Post

knd,

Both low lamp natural and high lamp natural calibrations look great, you must have spent some considerable time getting them so precise. Personally I prefer the high "Y" (ftL) in high lamp. Living room, as Borat would say, well that "maybe not". You obviously have this calibration stuff "nailed".

That is my two cents.

Thanks Smallpooldad,
Without the help of the folks on this forum and especially you and Dan, I would never have gotten to this point. The picture out of this projector is truly amazing to me and the calibration guide and checklist made this possible.

It's funny how human nature is, in that when I first read this guide (and reread several times), I got very focused on the adjustments to get the 75% color saturation points adjusted, but lost sight of gamma and other aspects of calibrating. Through trial and error and guidance from you guys it started to come together.

Thanks again. This weekend I'm going to help a coworker set up their new 6500 (bought on my recommendation, although they did come and watch a movie, so they got to see it first hand). I'm intending to do a quick calibration even thought the bulb is brand new.
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post #285 of 732 Old 06-19-2009, 12:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knd View Post

Thanks Smallpooldad,
Without the help of the folks on this forum and especially you and Dan, I would never have gotten to this point. The picture out of this projector is truly amazing to me and the calibration guide and checklist made this possible.

It's funny how human nature is, in that when I first read this guide (and reread several times), I got very focused on the adjustments to get the 75% color saturation points adjusted, but lost sight of gamma and other aspects of calibrating. Through trial and error and guidance from you guys it started to come together.

Thanks again. This weekend I'm going to help a coworker set up their new 6500 (bought on my recommendation, although they did come and watch a movie, so they got to see it first hand). I'm intending to do a quick calibration even thought the bulb is brand new.

Yep, looked at your files and like smallpooldad mentions, you nailed it. Glad to hear that you are enjoying the picture. It really is amazing how far technology has come in the last few years, for such a reasonable cost.

Dan
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post #286 of 732 Old 06-19-2009, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stereomandan View Post

Yep, looked at your files and like smallpooldad mentions, you nailed it. Glad to hear that you are enjoying the picture. It really is amazing how far technology has come in the last few years, for such a reasonable cost.

Dan

Thanks Dan,
We're just thrilled with the projector in general and especially with the picture quality. I spent sometime reading the RS20 calibration thread today, and saw that you were participating over there. After reading through much of the discussion, I have an even greater appreciation for you developing this approach and guide. I didn't realize what I had when I purchased this projector, but am very please with the ability to have a CMS that can be fully (hope I'm not overstating this) calibrated. Thanks again.
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post #287 of 732 Old 06-19-2009, 04:19 PM
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Knd,

You make a very good point, while Dan's 75% method is the most important part of the calibration process to achieve a really good looking and beautifully calibrated picture it is important to get everything else right first, such as Gamma and Grayscale, otherwise it becomes that much harder to get the 75% method properly calibrated.

I was going to say balance but getting the individual components right is not a balance but more to do with laying the proper foundation just as in construction, the right soil, the correct sized foundation, etc. Any one of these components not done correctly, and in their proper order, will upset the overall integrity of the building, so it seems to be with calibration.

I will stress this point when I re-write the check list method. Your feedback and beekermartin's will help many others I hope.

And thank you for your kind comments.
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post #288 of 732 Old 06-19-2009, 05:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Agreed. Properly calibrated greyscale and gamma alone provide a BIG improvement. The CMS then adds other portion of the improvement. Both are critical. It is important to have gamma, and to a lesser extent greyscale, calibrated before you calibrate to 75% saturation points because a gamma other then 2.22 will cause the 75% color locations to be a little different.

Proper gamma really creates a lot of POP to the picture, and these Epsons are too low in gamma; much less than 2.22 out of the box.

Dan
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post #289 of 732 Old 06-19-2009, 06:27 PM
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beekermartin, knd, and stereomandan,

Just updated check list to reflect your recent comments and insights.

Thank you and have a good weekend.
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post #290 of 732 Old 06-21-2009, 06:09 AM
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Smallpooldad, Dan,
The link in Dan's guide takes you to Post #505 of the Tweaks Thread. This checklist was last updated 04-07.

You might want to redirect the link to the lastest checklist, or put the latest in Post #505.

Just a suggestion.
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post #291 of 732 Old 06-21-2009, 08:49 AM
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Knd, your calibration looks fabulous. Would it be possible to post your calibration settings for the living room mode. Thanks in advance!
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post #292 of 732 Old 06-21-2009, 09:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knd View Post

Smallpooldad, Dan,
The link in Dan's guide takes you to Post #505 of the Tweaks Thread. This checklist was last updated 04-07.

You might want to redirect the link to the lastest checklist, or put the latest in Post #505.

Just a suggestion.

Good observation.
Could you post the correct link to your checklist smallpooldad, or Knd? I'll update my guide, and make sure I'm linking to the correct checklist.

Dan
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post #293 of 732 Old 06-21-2009, 04:03 PM
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Dan,

Here is the link for less experienced users:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post16193384

And here is link for persons with a little more experience:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...3#post16383123

Thank you knd.
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post #294 of 732 Old 06-22-2009, 05:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsntn99 View Post

Knd, your calibration looks fabulous. Would it be possible to post your calibration settings for the living room mode. Thanks in advance!

This is low lamp.

Carada BW 118" Throw distance 14.5 feet HDMI EXPANDED
Brightness -12
Contrast 10
Color Sat 0
Tint -7
Temp 6500
Skin 0
Gamma Custom 0 -4 -8 -14 -15 -14 -16 -27 0
RGB
Offset
R -29
G 4
B 0
Gain
R -3
G 3
B -17
HUE SAT BR
R 2 -23 64
G 59 50 -20
B 29 -43 25
C 2 57 -34
M 40 -4 30
Y 5 1 37
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post #295 of 732 Old 06-22-2009, 05:40 AM
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has anyone got the natural settings / living room setting for the 1080 not th ub

thanx
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post #296 of 732 Old 06-22-2009, 07:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knd View Post

This is low lamp.

Carada BW 118" Throw distance 14.5 feet HDMI EXPANDED
Brightness -12
Contrast 10
Color Sat 0
Tint -7
Temp 6500
Skin 0
Gamma Custom 0 -4 -8 -14 -15 -14 -16 -27 0
RGB
Offset
R -29
G 4
B 0
Gain
R -3
G 3
B -17
HUE SAT BR
R 2 -23 64
G 59 50 -20
B 29 -43 25
C 2 57 -34
M 40 -4 30
Y 5 1 37

Many thanks! I wonder if anyone has tried a CC30M or similar filter on this mode to rein in the green. This would appear to be what the lightpower edition has. I will be giving this a try a bit later on.
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post #297 of 732 Old 06-27-2009, 07:09 AM
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what would be the best guide to use for the 1080 not the ub same as beer as i do not have the brightness controls....

thanx
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post #298 of 732 Old 06-27-2009, 08:21 AM
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also could i get the settings for the ps3 and the 1080....

say rgb full super white on 24fps... for ps3

then epson hdmi enhanced, super white on....

is this ok or do u have another way...

i did it the way above and when i use the 709 disc avc disc and use the basic settings where i adjust the brightness i cant see the brs at all when i turn super white off on the epson i can see the bars.....

help is greatly appreciated......

thanx
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post #299 of 732 Old 06-27-2009, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d4g View Post

also could i get the settings for the ps3 and the 1080....

say rgb full super white on 24fps... for ps3

then epson hdmi enhanced, super white on....

is this ok or do u have another way...

i did it the way above and when i use the 709 disc avc disc and use the basic settings where i adjust the brightness i cant see the brs at all when i turn super white off on the epson i can see the bars.....

help is greatly appreciated......

thanx

I can't help you with the PS3 settings but I can with the Epson. Set HDMI to expanded and superwhite off.
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post #300 of 732 Old 06-28-2009, 05:21 AM
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I moved this to the owner's thread. Realized after posting that this had nothing to do with the Calibration Guide.
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Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

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