Official JVC RS20 / HD750 Calibration and CMS thread (NEW FIRMWARE V1.1) - Page 11 - AVS Forum
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post #301 of 1634 Old 05-02-2009, 05:15 PM
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Tomorrow I'll measure the THX mode with the Minolta CS-200, I'm curious.
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post #302 of 1634 Old 05-02-2009, 09:13 PM
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While there is now a pause on this RS20 new FW thread, let me ask a somewhat OT question about calibration. I could ask it in a calibration thread, but I think I trust the answers more from you guys!

Re grayscale calibration, the 'Dummies Guide' says to leave Green unchanged, and to vary Red and Blue to balance Gain (at 80% IRE) and Offset (a 30% IRE) for all three. Yet everywhere else I have read that Red is the color usually most deficient in lamps; so shouldn't one set Red as high as possible, and adjust the Gain and Offset of Green and Blue to balance all three at the high and low IRE values?

PS Have any of you guys tried Gamma A? It seems to be very simiar tp 2.2 or 2.3, except with a bump at very low IRE to give better detail in dark scenes. Looks pretty good to me.
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post #303 of 1634 Old 05-03-2009, 12:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

The thing is that THX uses the 6500K preset color temp, which cannot be adjusted. That's still the same. What is different is that the 6500K preset is now more accurate than before. When I did it in Jan. I got x0.317, y0.337. That is blue deficient, and a CIELAB dE of 4.3, which is slightly over SMPTE's error tolerance of 4.0. Last night I got x0.309, y0.324, which is somewhat excessively blue (the opposite of before), but more importantly it is a dE of only 2.7. You could use the service menu trick to get it even better, but it is hardly worth it. Also, that removes the whole advatange of a simple preset selection.

It is your finding then that the new Version of firmware has likely changed the the 6500K preset used with THX mode?

KT
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post #304 of 1634 Old 05-03-2009, 01:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

While there is now a pause on this RS20 new FW thread, let me ask a somewhat OT question about calibration. I could ask it in a calibration thread, but I think I trust the answers more from you guys!

Re grayscale calibration, the 'Dummies Guide' says to leave Green unchanged, and to vary Red and Blue to balance Gain (at 80% IRE) and Offset (a 30% IRE) for all three. Yet everywhere else I have read that Red is the color usually most deficient in lamps; so shouldn't one set Red as high as possible, and adjust the Gain and Offset of Green and Blue to balance all three at the high and low IRE values?

PS Have any of you guys tried Gamma A? It seems to be very simiar tp 2.2 or 2.3, except with a bump at very low IRE to give better detail in dark scenes. Looks pretty good to me.

Gamma A is almost exactly the same as Gamma 2.4 (i.e. about 2.3 from 30%-40% and up - see my comments above about the 1.8-2.6 gamma values) but then rolls off to nearly 2.1 at 5%. So it does indeed increase the brightness of the darkest details.

re: Grayscale adjustment. You always want to use the maximum green possible (i.e. that you can adjust to D65 at around 75% luma) because that will maximize your peak brightness and the contrast ratio. So set green at max and then adjust the red and blue to try to get D65 at 75%. [Edit: My memory was faulty - I've cal'd too many projectors. Actually the green gain will have to be set significantly below its max possible value on the RS20 to get D65 (because there are no internal sub-gain adjustments as there are on most other projectors), but the objective is still to maximize green as you adjust for D65.] I think you will find the RS20 grayscale is very flat from 75% to 100%, but I don't let 100% go above 2 dE (LUV) for any of my projector measurements. That is visually very good, and it ensures my contrast ratio and brightness measurements can be sensibly compared between projector reviews.

At the other end of the grayscale, don't try to get D65 at 30% or 20% if it causes the error to blow up at 10%. Try to keep the dE (LUV) deviation at 2 or less down to around 40% and only gradually creep up at 10%. I've seen people try to set 30% or 20% to D65 on some projectors, and let 10% jump to 10 dE or higher. You will get much better picture results if you keep 10% to 5 dE or less even if 20% or 30% rise to 2 or 3 dE. Of course, on the RS20 you can use the custom gamma function to achieve even better results. My RS20 was 5 dE at 10% and within 2 dE from 40%-100% right out of the box.

Greg Rogers
Video Engineer/Product Designer

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post #305 of 1634 Old 05-03-2009, 02:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregr View Post

Gamma A is almost exactly the same as Gamma 2.4 (i.e. about 2.3 from 30%-40% and up - see my comments above about the 1.8-2.6 gamma values) but then rolls off to nearly 2.1 at 5%. So it does indeed increase the brightness of the darkest details.

re: Grayscale adjustment. You always want to use the maximum green possible (i.e. that you can adjust to D65 at around 75% luma) because that will maximize your peak brightness and the contrast ratio. So set green at max and then adjust the red and blue to try to get D65 at 75%. You may have to reduce green by a notch or two else you may not have enough red or blue. I think you will find the RS20 grayscale is very flat from 75% to 100%, but I don't let 100% go above 2 dE (LUV) for any of my projector measurements. That is visually very good, and it ensures my contrast ratio and brightness measurements can be sensibly compared between projector reviews.

At the other end of the grayscale, don't try to get D65 at 30% or 20% if it causes the error to blow up at 10%. Try to keep the dE (LUV) deviation at 2 or less down to around 40% and only gradually creep up at 10%. I've seen people try to set 30% or 20% to D65 on some projectors, and let 10% jump to 10 dE or higher. You will get much better picture results if you keep 10% to 5 dE or less even if 20% or 30% rise to 2 or 3 dE. Of course, on the RS20 you can use the custom gamma function to achieve even better results. My RS20 was 5 dE at 10% and within 2 dE from 40%-100% right out of the box.

Thanks very much for this Greg, it's extremely useful. A few quick questions though: do you use gamma reference to compute dE for greyscale? In HCFR, my dE looks like 10 at 10IRE but if I check "use gamma reference to compute grescale dE" it goes down to less than two. I haven't really fine-tuned my greyscale, but we have established (led by Mark Petersen) that on the rs20, pushing some [edit: offsets] up has a detrimental effect on black levels. Even one notch up on red, for example. really affects black levels badly.
So when one ends up - after having done a quick adjustment of gains and offsets like I did for my 3rd attempt - with a greyscale that looks like the one attached, with a 10IRE which does probably have a 10 or more dE in order to get the rest of the greyscale flat, what do you do to lower this dE at 10IRE:
1) compromise black levels and use positive offsets to get a better dE at 10IRE
2) keep offsets as they are and use gamma controls to lower the dE at 10IRE.
3) do nothing to priviledge black levels and compromise color accuracy?

Which leads me to the obvious last question: if we use gamma controls to lower dE at lower IRE (5-20), therefore using positive [edit: adjustments] at some control points, does it have exactly the same detrimental effect as using positive offsets? I have checked the effect with the offsets with a luxmeter and it's there, but I haven't checked with the gamma adjustments.

Here were my color temp settings to get this greyscale:

Custom color temp (new lamp)
Gain R = -30
Gain G = 0
Gain B=-58
Offset R=0
Offset G=-4
Offset B=0

Green was low at the top end, so gains were quite straightforward, although I made the mistake of making sure I got d65 at 100IRE (old habit as there is no gamma control point at 100IRE) while I was calibrating at 75% stim for the first time, so I should have paid more attention to D65 at 75%. For offsets, this was as close as I could get by using negative values only. I was doing offsets at 30 IRE as it's the lowest reliable point for the i1pro and I decided not to use the trained d2 for this attempt as I was concentrating on gamut work.
LL
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post #306 of 1634 Old 05-03-2009, 06:47 AM
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I now have a an i1 Pro on order. I am hoping that this probe bears out my earlier findings which suggest that THX mode is near dead on accurate. I don't know if my unit is atypical in this respect but it seems like there is variation in this regard.

So, at least for me, I have not found that the firmware has made a dramatic picture quality difference because I am very close now to OOTB (with THX grayscale tweak) settings.


I did not have high expectations that there would be much of an improvement (because I had measured THX previously) but I am very gald that we all now have the flexibility that we wanted.

Affable Nitwit
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post #307 of 1634 Old 05-03-2009, 07:44 AM
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Let me start by saying thank you JVC for this firmware upgrade !!!

After spending all night tonight calibrating my RS20 all I can say is the picture is absolutely gorgeous.

I wish I would have seen Gregr's post about maximizing green gain before starting grayscale as I did not know about that. I will recalibrate grayscale doing that today and see what the difference in light output and contrast will be.

I used 75% patterns to calibrate.

Here is what I have so far:

I am getting 12 ftl. at my 108" firehawk screen using aperature setting of -9.

I have a "bat cave" theater so this is plenty bright.

I am using custom 1 for color temp and gamma settings.

I am using gamma correction value of 2.4

CMS settings:

Hue Sat Brightness
Red -3 -22 6
yellow 2 -48 39
green -19 -45 35
cyan 1 -52 44
blue 11 -25 10
magenta -5 -29 14

Color temp settings:

gain red = 0
gain green= -34
gain blue= -84
offset red= -2
offset green= -2
offset blue= 0

Here are my results in the attachments. Please let me know if I am on the right track and if there are any changes I should make.

Now I need to get some sleep.
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post #308 of 1634 Old 05-03-2009, 08:05 AM
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I just read this entire thread and it looks like JVC has really come through with the CMS fix! Now I am really wondering whether I should change my order to an RS-20 or stick with the PD8150...

Every time I read posts from many of the experienced calibration people I find what they say to be confusing, so I just go away with no new knowledge, but reading posts from Greg Rogers and Tom Huffman I always learn something and their explanations make perfect sense. You guys just have much better communication skills, or at least for me. Many thanks for the hard work that you share with us and and an even bigger thanks for your easy to understand explanations.
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post #309 of 1634 Old 05-03-2009, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post

but we have established (led by Mark Petersen) that on the rs20, pushing some gains up has a detrimental effect on black levels. Even one notch up on red, for example. really affects black levels badly.

Manni,

I'm confused by what you are saying here. Did you mean to say "offsets" instead of gains ? I thought only the offsets were not supposed to be set above zero due to affecting black levels ?
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post #310 of 1634 Old 05-03-2009, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregr View Post

re: Grayscale adjustment. You always want to use the maximum green possible (i.e. that you can adjust to D65 at around 75% luma) because that will maximize your peak brightness and the contrast ratio. So set green at max and then adjust the red and blue to try to get D65 at 75%. [Edit: My memory was faulty - I've cal'd too many projectors. Actually the green gain will have to be set significantly below its max possible value on the RS20 to get D65 (because there are no internal sub-gain adjustments as there are on most other projectors), but the objective is still to maximize green as you adjust for D65.] I think you will find the RS20 grayscale is very flat from 75% to 100%, but I don't let 100% go above 2 dE (LUV) for any of my projector measurements. That is visually very good, and it ensures my contrast ratio and brightness measurements can be sensibly compared between projector reviews.

At the other end of the grayscale, don't try to get D65 at 30% or 20% if it causes the error to blow up at 10%. Try to keep the dE (LUV) deviation at 2 or less down to around 40% and only gradually creep up at 10%. I've seen people try to set 30% or 20% to D65 on some projectors, and let 10% jump to 10 dE or higher. You will get much better picture results if you keep 10% to 5 dE or less even if 20% or 30% rise to 2 or 3 dE. Of course, on the RS20 you can use the custom gamma function to achieve even better results. My RS20 was 5 dE at 10% and within 2 dE from 40%-100% right out of the box.


Greg,

I thought I read in the original RS20 calibration thread, that we were to keep red gain at maximum (0) and not go below this in red gain ? Has this changed due to the CMS being fixed now with the upgrade ?
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post #311 of 1634 Old 05-03-2009, 09:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nelson4u View Post

Manni,

I'm confused by what you are saying here. Did you mean to say "offsets" instead of gains ? I thought only the offsets were not supposed to be set above zero due to affecting black levels ?

Yes, I meant offsets of course in relation to black level, I'll edit the post, thanks.

Re the red defficiency of the RS-20, it doesn't seem to be true anymore, at least no on my PJ. Green was defficient, which made it straightforward to adjust gains.

Look at your greyscale before adjustment. You should have one color which is mostly deficient over the whole greyscale. If red is deficient, lower other colors. If it's green (which I experienced), leave mostly green as it is and adjust the others colors.
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post #312 of 1634 Old 05-03-2009, 09:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawguy View Post

I now have a an i1 Pro on order. I am hoping that this probe bears out my earlier findings which suggest that THX mode is near dead on accurate. I don't know if my unit is atypical in this respect but it seems like there is variation in this regard.

So, at least for me, I have not found that the firmware has made a dramatic picture quality difference because I am very close now to OOTB (with THX grayscale tweak) settings.


I did not have high expectations that there would be much of an improvement (because I had measured THX previously) but I am very gald that we all now have the flexibility that we wanted.

I expect your THX to measure accurately with the i1pro, as it would be consistent with my settings being oversaturated for you, especially on green. It's very unlikely that the THX preset is adjusted at the factory for each PJ individually. It's a "one size for all" approach. Obviously my PJ is green deficient, which is why the THX preset always felt undersaturated to me (or 008). It looks like you and others have experienced more balanced units, which explains why you (or Tom) were happy with THX, and why myself and quite a few others found it lacking pop, hence gaining a reputation for oversaturation freaks. Let us know when you get the i1pro... As far as I'm concerned, now that I can have my PJ at rec709, I'm very happy with a standard gamut and do not crave any oversaturated gamut. Although I'm open to LDVD converting me again...
What's quite funny is that my d2 overreads green in exactly the (inverse) same proportion, so it always read THX as measuring perfect.
At least that's the way I'm trying to make sense of the whole thing...
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post #313 of 1634 Old 05-03-2009, 09:49 AM
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Re variations in color deficiences. What would cause the sets to be different in the max they can put out with respect to green? The colors come from the color wheel lit by a lamp. The color wheels are all the same, are they not? So would any intrinsic deficiency with respect to a color be caused by lamp variations? Assuming the majority have a max level higher with respect to green and you are deficient wouldn`t that be an indication of a deficient bulb easily fixable by a new bulb?

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post #314 of 1634 Old 05-03-2009, 09:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Re variations in color deficiences. What would cause the sets to be different in the max they can put out with respect to green? The colors come from the color wheel lit by a lamp. The color wheels are all the same, are they not? So would any intrinsic deficiency with respect to a color be caused by lamp variations? Assuming the majority have a max level higher with respect to green and you are deficient wouldn`t that be an indication of a deficient bulb easily fixable by a new bulb?

I thought a color deficiency was relative to the output of the other colors. Is there an absolute level? Also I didn't think there was a color wheel in the JVC as it's LCOS?

My bulb IS new, but I have other issues with it as it may be defective and am awaiting an answer from JVC.

The green deficiency is not bulb dependant, my old bulb gave exactly the same readings re THX gamut.

In my experience there is very little variation on the gamut as the lamp ages or is replaced, much more on the greyscale.
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post #315 of 1634 Old 05-03-2009, 10:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Sorel View Post

reading posts from Greg Rogers and Tom Huffman I always learn something and their explanations make perfect sense. You guys just have much better communication skills, or at least for me. Many thanks for the hard work that you share with us and and an even bigger thanks for your easy to understand explanations.

+1

I just wished I was like you experienced enough to be able to take the knowledge and resist the urge to ask more questions.

I am simply curious, but I am aware that I can come across as being either greedy or stupid. While in fact I'm both...
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post #316 of 1634 Old 05-03-2009, 11:10 AM
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I have an RS20 with about 175 hours that was calibrated by Jason at AVS and I was wondering if I should upgrade the firmware and have the unit recalibrated.

If so, is there anyone in the Bay Area that knows how to do it properly? I am not very familiar with the CMS nor have the proper tools to do the job.

Lastly, does the new firmware greatly improve the image?

Thanks,

Rich
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post #317 of 1634 Old 05-03-2009, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rich wu View Post

I have an RS20 with about 175 hours that was calibrated by Jason at AVS and I was wondering if I should upgrade the firmware and have the unit recalibrated.

If so, is there anyone in the Bay Area that knows how to do it properly? I am not very familiar with the CMS nor have the proper tools to do the job.

Lastly, does the new firmware greatly improve the image?

Thanks,

Rich

A prior post (you might need to search) suggested not upgrading to 1.1 if you have already had a calibration and to just upgrade before your next calibration/new bulb, etc.

Feel free to correct me...

Mike
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post #318 of 1634 Old 05-03-2009, 11:40 AM
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Greg,

When looking at a gamma graph (the graph that should show straight horizontal line along the reference line if correct) it is clear that gamma is indeed higher at the lower %s, like you found. How important is it for me to flatten these out?

For instance it is possible to use the "white" adjustment within the custom gamma curve to raise/lower the overall brightness at a given % in order to try and flatten this line.

However I have to wonder whether this is worth it. I spend 6+ hours messing with this last night trying to get it flat. It is very tricky because a change to white at 5% impacts its RGB, then you fix that and it has an impact on 10%, then you fix that and find that 5% is off again and around in circles. Typically you can work at say 30% and above without the white adjustment affecting surrounding % level of brightness or rgb, but its nearly darn impossible. I can get the dE <3 from 5-100 but trying to do that while also keeping the gamma graph flat - this is where it is extremely challenging. What is the impact of not flatting out the gamma line and is it worth it??

Thanks!
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post #319 of 1634 Old 05-03-2009, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nelson4u View Post

Let me start by saying thank you JVC for this firmware upgrade !!!

After spending all night tonight calibrating my RS20 all I can say is the picture is absolutely gorgeous.

I wish I would have seen Gregr's post about maximizing green gain before starting grayscale as I did not know about that. I will recalibrate grayscale doing that today and see what the difference in light output and contrast will be.

Make sure to go back and see his edited comment about maximizing gains.

Dan
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post #320 of 1634 Old 05-03-2009, 11:44 AM
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These are my numbers, please note that because I only have the DVE DVD for now I had to measure cyan, yellow and magenta at 75% of luminance (not saturation). So my luminance values good be a little off, since I didn't know exactly how to measure the expected light output at 75 %. For THX there could be an error because of this on the x, y values.

All measured with a Minolta CS-200 and only 35 hours of lamp time.

R: x=0.6446 y=0.3304 L=2.82
G: x=0.2962 y=0.6030 L=9.76
B: x=0.1445 y=0.0616 L=1.05
C: x=0.2158 y=0.3285 L=6.12 (75%)
Y: x=0.4140 y=0.5150 L=6.74 (75%)
M: x=0.3081 y=0.1494 L=2.00 (75%)
W: x=0.2995 y=0.3178 L=13.27

This looks very close to Rec. 709. The biggest error is on cyan and also on blue, this is probably because I have a new lamp and I didn't apply yet a custom color temperature setting (see below) to the THX mode. Will this improve the THX color gammut to get closer to Rec.709?
It looks on my PJ that THX is a litter oversaturated, I thought I've read other things in the past?

In "User 1" I made myself a custom color temperature setting, see the settings and measurements below. I did only adjust the gains for now, I find it spooky to adjust the offsets :-).

Gain red = 0
Gain green = -8
Gain blue = -80
Offset red = 0
Offset green = 0
Offset blue = 0

White 20 %: x=0.3185 y=0.3315 L=0.36
White 40 %: x=0.3157 y=0.3352 L=1.76
White 60 %: x=0.3130 y=0.3326 L=4.34
White 80 %: x=0.3122 y=0.3303 L=7.94
White 100 %: x=0.3117 y=0.3294 L=12.78

I'm not a specialist, but this is a good color temperature tracking through the grayscale?

In "User 1" I now further finetuned the CMS to get a very close match to Rec. 709. These are the settings.

Hue Sat Brightness
Red 6 -29 8
Yellow 1 -48 35
Green -24 -46 33
Cyan 8 -56 43
Blue 18 -24 8
Magenta -10 -32 15

That is a big correction in hue on the green.

Now I will have a look to a movie! I will also chech again the contouring problems I've seen in the movie "Hard Candy"...

Ignace.
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post #321 of 1634 Old 05-03-2009, 11:48 AM
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By the way, does somebody know if the offset and gain adjustments for the color temperature are "analog" controls. Do they kinf of control the reference voltages to the DAC's of the LCOS? In other words, do these settings only affect the contrast and not the number of available bits to the LCOS?

Thanks,
Ignace.
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post #322 of 1634 Old 05-03-2009, 12:43 PM
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Mike,

Thanks for the info. I found the post. I'll just enjoy the RS20 for a few more hundred hours then upgrade the firmware and change the bulb.

Rich
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post #323 of 1634 Old 05-03-2009, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nelson4u View Post

I wish I would have seen Gregr's post about maximizing green gain before starting grayscale as I did not know about that. I will recalibrate grayscale doing that today and see what the difference in light output and contrast will be.

Color temp settings:

gain red = 0
gain green= -34
gain blue= -84

Your values look reasonable considering every projector will be different and will change over time. If you have already maximized the red gain setting (which I believe will be typical on this projector) and achieved D65, then you won't be able to increase green any more. My comments above were written late at night while I was doing something else and weren't too clear (see the edit I added in the remarks). The point I was trying to make was maximize the green gain as much as possible while still achieving D65 with a 75% luma signal.

Greg Rogers
Video Engineer/Product Designer

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post #324 of 1634 Old 05-03-2009, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nelson4u View Post

Greg,

I thought I read in the original RS20 calibration thread, that we were to keep red gain at maximum (0) and not go below this in red gain ? Has this changed due to the CMS being fixed now with the upgrade ?

Contrary to Bob's kind words above, I sort of messed up my earlier comment. (I'll blame it on trying to do two things at once at 2 am in the morning.) I was simply trying to say that you should set the green gain as high as possible while still achieving D65 with about 75% luma signals. The result on this projector will be that the red gain will typically be at 0 (it could be -1 or -2 to get the best D65 match). I was trying to prevent the situation where someone came up with a setting like Rg = -20, Gg = -50, Bg = -80 (none of the gain settings near maximum), in which case it could produce D65, but at Contrast = 0 the brightness of the projector would be low and the contrast ratio would be low. Sorry for the confusion. I'll try to do better and live up to Bob's expectations in the future.

Greg Rogers
Video Engineer/Product Designer

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post #325 of 1634 Old 05-03-2009, 02:18 PM
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Several folks have been PMing me to ask for my latest settings and measurements with the new firmware. I'd like to spend more time with the calibration to assess things fully but preliminarily I'm posting these results for your review.

I calibrated the CMS using 75% patterns. This took only about 35 minutes (as opposed to 80+ hours with the original firmware ). Unfortunately prior to this I spent 6 hours working on the grayscale and was zonked by the time I got to the CMS so I didn't really get to tinker as much as I'd like with the CMS just yet. Then again, from the preliminary results it looks like 35 minutes is all I needed.

I was very pleased with the results. I have attached some screens for you to review showing the measurements at 75% and 100%. Forest green and grass never looked so good!

Here are the CMS settings for Rec 709.

Color Hue Sat Brightness
R 2 -24 10
Y 3 -44 34
G -10 -42 32
C -2 -48 38
B 0 -25 9
M 2 -31 16

I must say that with these settings it REALLY now looks like "looking out a window" especially nature scenes. In fact it looks so natural and "real" that I may actually stick with Rec 709 instead of using things a bit more souped up.

If you have any questions please let me know and of course comments are always welcome.
LL
LL
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post #326 of 1634 Old 05-03-2009, 02:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

Several folks have been PMing me to ask for my latest settings and measurements with the new firmware. I'd like to spend more time with the calibration to assess things fully but preliminarily I'm posting these results for your review.

I calibrated the CMS using 75% patterns. This took only about 35 minutes (as opposed to 80+ hours with the original firmware ). Unfortunately prior to this I spent 6 hours working on the grayscale and was zonked by the time I got to the CMS so I didn't really get to tinker as much as I'd like with the CMS just yet. Then again, from the preliminary results it looks like 35 minutes is all I needed.

I was very pleased with the results. I have attached some screens for you to review showing the measurements at 75% and 100%. Forest green and grass never looked so good!

Here are the CMS settings for Rec 709.

Color Hue Sat Brightness
R 2 -24 10
Y 3 -44 34
G -10 -42 32
C -2 -48 38
B 0 -25 9
M 2 -31 16

I must say that with these settings it REALLY now looks like "looking out a window" especially nature scenes. In fact it looks so natural and "real" that I may actually stick with Rec 709 instead of using things a bit more souped up.

If you have any questions please let me know and of course comments are always welcome.

These look great Ric, I expect these finetuned settings to look much better than mine given the truly excellent dEs you got both at 75% and 100%.

You managed to get blue extremely close with no use of hue control and only saturation/brightness. I tried that way on my PJ but couldn't get there so I did almost the opposite, which is counter-intuitive and I'm sure has adverse effects on PQ, as reported by JeffY and others. I'll try again when I do a proper session. I have the new screen material now, just waiting to hear about my lamp to set aside the time.

I'm away at the moment but I can't wait to be able to try these.
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post #327 of 1634 Old 05-03-2009, 04:37 PM
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Manni. You are right. I was up until 4AM but not tinkering, watching through a DVR all the sports I missed live yesterday. Of course no color wheel. I mixed up projectors forgetting that of course the JVC is a three chipper. But it still leaves the question. Why the variation from the other machines with the same prism and light sources?

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post #328 of 1634 Old 05-03-2009, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post


....I was very pleased with the results. I have attached some screens for you to review showing the measurements at 75% and 100%. Forest green and grass never looked so good!

Here are the CMS settings for Rec 709.

Color Hue Sat Brightness
R 2 -24 10
Y 3 -44 34
G -10 -42 32
C -2 -48 38
B 0 -25 9
M 2 -31 16

I must say that with these settings it REALLY now looks like "looking out a window" especially nature scenes. In fact it looks so natural and "real" that I may actually stick with Rec 709 instead of using things a bit more souped up.

If you have any questions please let me know and of course comments are always welcome.

Great settings. I tried these on my projector which resulted in a better "fit" than anything so far. The difference for me is in more natural reds, skin color - and blues closer to THX.

However, I am still having some difficulty with obtaining natural looking flesh tones from all the CMS setting including THX. Skin looks typically darker than I expect even with gamma set at Natural. Too high a Gamma is the only thing I can think of that would give skin a tendency toward a "Tanned "skin look. Any ideas?

KT
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post #329 of 1634 Old 05-04-2009, 03:55 AM
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Can someone please explain the procedures and patterns to use to measure contrast ratio on the RS20 using ColorHCFR ? I can not find test patterns Ansi 1 and Ansi2 that ColorHCFR program asks you to use. I am using the AVSHD 709 test patterns.
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post #330 of 1634 Old 05-04-2009, 06:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Sorel View Post

I just read this entire thread and it looks like JVC has really come through with the CMS fix! Now I am really wondering whether I should change my order to an RS-20 or stick with the PD8150...

Every time I read posts from many of the experienced calibration people I find what they say to be confusing, so I just go away with no new knowledge, but reading posts from Greg Rogers and Tom Huffman I always learn something and their explanations make perfect sense. You guys just have much better communication skills, or at least for me. Many thanks for the hard work that you share with us and and an even bigger thanks for your easy to understand explanations.

My guess is that you'll be happier with the PD8150, Bob.

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