Official JVC RS20 / HD750 Calibration and CMS thread (NEW FIRMWARE V1.1) - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 1634 Old 05-06-2009, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post

Did I miss LG's settings, or do you mean LDVD's?

Your right, Manni!
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post #452 of 1634 Old 05-06-2009, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WOLVERNOLE View Post

Hi Lawguy and Millerwill-
Not to tread on the wrong thread, but as it was mentioned that you are still both owners of the Hi-Power screen in combination w/ the RS-20, I thought that I might take the opportunity to ask both of you if you are still satisfied with this combination (or are you considering swapping ot to a different material of screen) having spent a fair amount of time with it by now.

Thanks for your comments !

Agree with thrang's comments above: the HP and RS20 are a marriage made in heaven**. The uberconstrast of the RS20, and punch of the HP, combine to bring out a remarkably striking pic.

I've done the grayscale (with my 'primitive' Eye1LT, HCFR, and 'dummies guide') and tried the various CMS settings reported here, with very nice results. However Jeff Meyer (UMR) will be coming on the 19th to do his thing, so I'm really looking forward to seeing how everything compares.

**PS provided your setup is optimum for the HP.
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post #453 of 1634 Old 05-06-2009, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post

Did I miss LG's settings, or do you mean LDVD's?

I PMd them to Millerwill. I didn't post them because I am skittish about them at the moment.

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post #454 of 1634 Old 05-06-2009, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

Agree with thrang's comments above: the HP and RS20 are a marriage made in heaven**. The uberconstrast of the RS20, and punch of the HP, combine to bring out a remarkably striking pic.

I've done the grayscale (with my 'primitive' Eye1LT, HCFR, and 'dummies guide') and tried the various CMS settings reported here, with very nice results. However Jeff Meyer (UMR) will be coming on the 19th to do his thing, so I'm really looking forward to seeing how everything compares.

**PS provided your setup is optimum for the HP.


+1. Love the HP in my setup.

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post #455 of 1634 Old 05-06-2009, 02:08 PM
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I've seen the RS20 on an HP screen and it is indeed an insane combination. (As people keep pointing out, so long as the HP suits your viewing set up).

Rich H


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post #456 of 1634 Old 05-06-2009, 03:15 PM
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Thank you Thrang, Millerwill and Lawguy for the input and encouragement. Good reminder Rich, and YES, the retroreflective (sp ?) screen is perfect for my room.
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post #457 of 1634 Old 05-06-2009, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

All three (yours, Manni's, and Jeff's) are close, so I need to be switching between them in 'real time' to give an accurate description; I'll do this tonight.

OK, I'm home now and can comment on the various CMS settings (with my grayscale) as they appear on my pj. It's easiest to note how they look for skin tones.

First, JeffY's settings give too red skin tones in my setup, so it got bumped from my 3 User settings. The 3 I have are Ldvd (User1), Lawguy (User2), Manni3 (User3). User3 gives the warmest skin tones, User2 the coolest, and User1 in between. I oscillate between preferring User1 and User2. But really, all 3 of these are very close to each other--and all better than THX, and all very, very nice.

As noted above, Jeff Meyer (UMR) will be at the house on the 19th, so I'm really looking forward to seeing how all this compares.
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post #458 of 1634 Old 05-06-2009, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill;16412648
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As noted above, Jeff Meyer (UMR) will be at the house on the 19th, so I'm really looking forward to seeing how all this compares.

Didn't I see that you had purchased some sort of decent calibration measuring device ??
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post #459 of 1634 Old 05-06-2009, 07:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawguy View Post

I PMd them to Millerwill. I didn't post them because I am skittish about them at the moment.

No problem, I just wanted to make sure I hadn't forgotten to link your settings in my recap.
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post #460 of 1634 Old 05-06-2009, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyR View Post

Didn't I see that you had purchased some sort of decent calibration measuring device ??

Yes, I do have the I1LT colorimeter, the most basic one that is supposed to be reasonable. So yes, it may redundant to have a professional calibration, but it's worth it to me to find out how much it matters.
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post #461 of 1634 Old 05-06-2009, 08:30 PM
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You are going to be very very surprised.

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post #462 of 1634 Old 05-06-2009, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

You are going to be very very surprised.

I hope so!
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post #463 of 1634 Old 05-07-2009, 04:40 AM
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I played with my i1Pro for about fifteen minutes.

I only had time to measure my calibrated settings. There is definitely a big difference between my i1Pro and my i1LT. A green that looks spot on when measured with my i1LT is very undersaturated with my i1Pro. The other colors are much closer but still a bit undersaturated. My preliminary conclusion is that the green sensors in my i1Lt are shot and the red and blue are not much better.

My i1LT is over a year old. I suspect that it has not aged well. If this is true, I can't see how buying one of these is a good investment, even though it is initally one of the cheapest reliable solutions, because it may only be good for a short period of time. The Pro at least can be recertified.

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post #464 of 1634 Old 05-07-2009, 04:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawguy View Post

I played with my i1Pro for about fifteen minutes.

I only had time to measure my calibrated settings. There is definitely a big difference between my i1Pro and my i1LT. A green that looks spot on when measured with my i1LT is very undersaturated with my i1Pro. The other colors are much closer but still a bit undersaturated. My preliminary conclusion is that the green sensors in my i1Lt are shot and the red and blue are not much better.

My i1LT is over a year old. I suspect that it has not aged well. If this is true, I can't see how buying one of these is a good investment, even though it is initally one of the cheapest reliable solutions, because it may only be good for a short period of time. The Pro at least can be recertified.

Sounds like we all share the same experience with the i1pro!

My D2 was only a few months old, and has always measured the same (if I take the THX preset as a reference), so I think it's more imprecision from the start than gradual decay in my case.

Can't wait to see your adjusted settings!
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post #465 of 1634 Old 05-07-2009, 04:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post

My D2 was only a few months old, and has always measured the same . . .



Yes but how long was it sitting around in a warehouse or on some retailer's shelf before it made it to you?

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post #466 of 1634 Old 05-07-2009, 04:49 AM - Thread Starter
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[quote=Lawguy;16414935]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post

My D2 was only a few months old . . . QUOTE]

Yes but how long was it sitting around in a warehouse or on some retailer's shelf before it made it to you?

It was brand new, from the factory, with an initial calibration date from the month I bought it (like my i1pro which was sent directly by x-rite, by UPS). I bought both from the same specialised internet shop and they have a very fast turnover.
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post #467 of 1634 Old 05-07-2009, 04:54 AM
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Just for the record, here is Manni's d2 calibration measured with his i1Pro.

This is pretty much what I saw except it looks to me (from memory) that my LT setting were slightly more undersaturated.

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post #468 of 1634 Old 05-07-2009, 04:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawguy View Post

Just for the record, here is Manni's d2 calibration measured with his i1Pro.

This is pretty much what I saw except it looks to me (from memory) that my LT setting were slightly more undersaturated.

Welcome to the club then
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post #469 of 1634 Old 05-07-2009, 04:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post

It was brand new, from the factory, with an initial calibration date form the month I bought it (like my i1pro which was sent directly by x-rite, by UPS). I bought both from the same specialised internet shop and they have a very fast turnover.

I have just had a troubling thought. Perhaps both are accurate one of these probes has some trouble measuring D-ILA. What if it is the i1Pro?

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post #470 of 1634 Old 05-07-2009, 05:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawguy View Post

I have just had a troubling thought. Perhaps both are accurate one of these probes has some trouble measuring D-ILA. What if it is the i1Pro?

Do what I did (after going through the same angst) and trust your eyes. When I do a greyscale with the d2 and then one with the i1pro (or the d2 trained to the i1pro), the latter is clearly more "right" than the former. Use the internal test patterns (the greyscale ramps) or the AVS disc, and you'll see which one is right. My d2 greyscale was very slightly warm, my i1pro greyscale is spot on.
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post #471 of 1634 Old 05-07-2009, 10:07 AM
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Hi, Guys

Well, I did the firmware update last night and hooked up the new i1pro with Calman (Enthusiast) software and signal generator (DPG-1000). I have never used equipment or software like this before. It is a little overwhelming. I just have to find the proper starting point. I messed with gray scale settings but nothing really worked out. I can see the leaning curve will be a long one. When I get more familiar with this stuff I will post some of the settings.

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post #472 of 1634 Old 05-07-2009, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickS View Post

Hi, Guys

Well, I did the firmware update last night and hooked up the new i1pro with Calman (Enthusiast) software and signal generator (DPG-1000). I have never used equipment or software like this before. It is a little overwhelming. I just have to find the proper starting point. I messed with gray scale settings but nothing really worked out. I can see the leaning curve will be a long one. When I get more familiar with this stuff I will post some of the settings.

Curious how this goes for you - I was about to pull the trigger on a Calman/i1Pro combo yesterday, but held off for a similar concern that it was more of a learning curve than I have time for. I downloaded the trial, but wasn't convinced I would know what to adjust based on the readings for the secondaries (Hue, Saturation, Brightness for RGBCMY)...Does it guide you as to the proper sequence of these adjustments?

Gee, I sound dumb....

Good luck...


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post #473 of 1634 Old 05-07-2009, 12:45 PM
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Its daunting but the Calman folks are very helpful. It does take time to get everything working though and practicing with a virtual probe. It depends on you. One can get a quality calibrator for say something like $400. Me I have Calman pro and many probes but I use others. I just don't have the time to learn it like it should be learned and to use and calibrate correct;y. With these probes there will be ERRORS.


there is nothing special about the JVcs that would present special problems to any meter not presented by some other projector. LG, in reality, neither of your cheap meters is correct though one is probably much closer.

Trust a pair of beady, shifty eyes?

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post #474 of 1634 Old 05-07-2009, 01:22 PM
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thrang,
The nice thing about the setup is it is fairly automated because all the readings you do are brought up automatically from the signal generator. No searching for patterns. It is just a matter of getting a grasp on things.

Mark,

I agree with you!! I did have Micheal Chen(TLV) calibrate my display and have enjoyed it for 700 hrs. I just thought I'd give it a shot on my own. I do have Micheal scheduled to come back at the end of the month to fix what ever I mess up.

Rick
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post #475 of 1634 Old 05-07-2009, 01:43 PM
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Hi to all!
I discover only now this thread . But I've got already a question 4 you.

Yesterday I've installed the new firmware on my RS20.
The upgrade goes fine and the check reports 1.1

So I've started a new calibration using my i1pro:

1) I've got a perfect D65 using the RGB controls;
2) I've got a perfect gamma 2.2 using the gamma controls;
3) At this point I've measured the value Y of a red@100%. I find out that it was a little bit lower related to the reference (I know that the red luminance is a portion of the Y of my white@100IRE). So I've put the main-color-control-slider @ -2. After that the Y of the red@100% was on the reference.
4) At this point I've started with the CMS: I've put HCFR in continuous reading and I've located the primary and secondary colors over the reference of the CIE chart using the saturation and hue controls of the CMS.
5) At this point I've started a complete misuration of the primary and secondary color using the routine of HCFR. The position of all colors was OK but not the related Y.
6) It was time to use the luminance controls of the CMS. Done.
7) After this I repeat the color misuration with HCFR and now ALL was FINE!
8) At this point I repeat the misuration now using patterns @75% and now some problems goes on.

The green now is over-satured and all the Y values are far away from reference!!!
The same problem of the old firmware!!

I hope that my operating procedure was wrong.
Can you tell me where?

Thank you all and ... so sorry 4 my english.
Acta.
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post #476 of 1634 Old 05-07-2009, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Actarusfleed View Post

Hi to all!
I discover only now this thread . But I've got already a question 4 you.

Yesterday I've installed the new firmware on my RS20.
The upgrade goes fine and the check reports 1.1

So I've started a new calibration using my i1pro:

1) I've got a perfect D65 using the RGB controls;
2) I've got a perfect gamma 2.2 using the gamma controls;
3) At this point I've measured the value Y of a red@100%. I find out that it was a little bit lower related to the reference (I know that the red luminance is a portion of the Y of my white@100IRE). So I've put the main-color-control-slider @ -2. After that the Y of the red@100% was on the reference.
4) At this point I've started with the CMS: I've put HCFR in continuous reading and I've located the primary and secondary colors over the reference of the CIE chart using the saturation and hue controls of the CMS.
5) At this point I've started a complete misuration of the primary and secondary color using the routine of HCFR. The position of all colors was OK but not the related Y.
6) It was time to use the luminance controls of the CMS. Done.
7) After this I repeat the color misuration with HCFR and now ALL was FINE!
8) At this point I repeat the misuration now using patterns @75% and now some problems goes on.

The green now is over-satured and all the Y values are far away from reference!!!
The same problem of the old firmware!!

I hope that my operating procedure was wrong.
Can you tell me where?

Thank you all and ... so sorry 4 my english.
Acta.

There is still some interaction with the CMS controls, particularly with the Saturation and Brightness controls. Therefore, there is a little back and forth that you will have to do to get things right. I would do one color at a time and make sure that x, y and Y are where they should be before you stop.

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post #477 of 1634 Old 05-07-2009, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Actarusfleed View Post

Hi to all!
I discover only now this thread . But I've got already a question 4 you.

Yesterday I've installed the new firmware on my RS20.
The upgrade goes fine and the check reports 1.1

So I've started a new calibration using my i1pro:

1) I've got a perfect D65 using the RGB controls;
2) I've got a perfect gamma 2.2 using the gamma controls;
3) At this point I've measured the value Y of a red@100%. I find out that it was a little bit lower related to the reference (I know that the red luminance is a portion of the Y of my white@100IRE). So I've put the main-color-control-slider @ -2. After that the Y of the red@100% was on the reference.
4) At this point I've started with the CMS: I've put HCFR in continuous reading and I've located the primary and secondary colors over the reference of the CIE chart using the saturation and hue controls of the CMS.
5) At this point I've started a complete misuration of the primary and secondary color using the routine of HCFR. The position of all colors was OK but not the related Y.
6) It was time to use the luminance controls of the CMS. Done.
7) After this I repeat the color misuration with HCFR and now ALL was FINE!
8) At this point I repeat the misuration now using patterns @75% and now some problems goes on.

The green now is over-satured and all the Y values are far away from reference!!!
The same problem of the old firmware!!

I hope that my operating procedure was wrong.
Can you tell me where?

Thank you all and ... so sorry 4 my english.
Acta.

Try leaving the main colour control set to 0. Then use the CMS to achieve correct Y for all colours including Red at 75%. That should work for you.
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post #478 of 1634 Old 05-07-2009, 03:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Actarusfleed View Post

Hi to all!
I discover only now this thread . But I've got already a question 4 you.

Yesterday I've installed the new firmware on my RS20.
The upgrade goes fine and the check reports 1.1

So I've started a new calibration using my i1pro:

1) I've got a perfect D65 using the RGB controls;
2) I've got a perfect gamma 2.2 using the gamma controls;
3) At this point I've measured the value Y of a red@100%. I find out that it was a little bit lower related to the reference (I know that the red luminance is a portion of the Y of my white@100IRE). So I've put the main-color-control-slider @ -2. After that the Y of the red@100% was on the reference.
4) At this point I've started with the CMS: I've put HCFR in continuous reading and I've located the primary and secondary colors over the reference of the CIE chart using the saturation and hue controls of the CMS.
5) At this point I've started a complete misuration of the primary and secondary color using the routine of HCFR. The position of all colors was OK but not the related Y.
6) It was time to use the luminance controls of the CMS. Done.
7) After this I repeat the color misuration with HCFR and now ALL was FINE!
8) At this point I repeat the misuration now using patterns @75% and now some problems goes on.

The green now is over-satured and all the Y values are far away from reference!!!
The same problem of the old firmware!!

I hope that my operating procedure was wrong.
Can you tell me where?

Thank you all and ... so sorry 4 my english.
Acta.

Also double check brightness on Green. It happened to me on my first attempt, and was due to a brightness value for green that was too high by mistake. This cause a slight lack of linearity for green. When I put it back to the right value, the linearity was good again.
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post #479 of 1634 Old 05-07-2009, 06:06 PM
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I also have a High Power DA-LITE screen and it's 150.5" width or aprox 165" Diagonal, it is also a cinemascope 2.35:1 and I would never go back to anything else. I've tried my older RS1 with multiple screens & nothing came close to this High Power fwiw.

Manni's setting work wonders with the new CMS, LovingDVD's are not as good with this combo.

Cheers
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post #480 of 1634 Old 05-08-2009, 01:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Dallas View Post

I also have a High Power DA-LITE screen and it's 150.5" width or aprox 165" Diagonal, it is also a cinemascope 2.35:1 and I would never go back to anything else. I've tried my older RS1 with multiple screens & nothing came close to this High Power fwiw.

Manni's setting work wonders with the new CMS, LovingDVD's are not as good with this combo.

Thanks for the kind words Chris, but I think it's probably more related to pure luck re unit to unit variation (both PJ and meters) than anything else, or they would work better for LG and Millerwill (and others HP owners) too, which I don't think is the case. LDVD has managed to get his settings where I'd like mine to be from an accuracy point of view. They don't work as well as mine on my own PJ either, but I'm sure they look absolutely amazing on his.

It will be interesting to get your feedback when I have adjusted my settings (hopefully this week-end) to my new screen material which has a slightly lower gain (1.2 vs 1.4). Maybe the new settings will be worse for you, despite the fact that they will, hopefully, be closer to rec709 in my setup (at least as seen by my lowly, cheap, unfit to the task, unpredictable and pathetic i1pro, which should really be called i1pro-in-your-dreams, or rather i1pro-has-been-but-isn't-anymore).
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Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

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