Official JVC RS20 / HD750 Calibration and CMS thread (NEW FIRMWARE V1.1) - Page 52 - AVS Forum
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post #1531 of 1634 Old 02-01-2011, 03:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Glad you found Le Dahu's procedure useful. It was the only way for me to adjust gamma on my rs20.

The controls are much better on the newer models though.

If you are using high lamp and a different iris position, you may want to check your calibration though, because it is very likely that greyscale, gamma and even gamut are affected.

On the rs50, one or two notches on the iris (for example from -15 to -13) have a huge efffect on the greyscale.

I can't check on the rs20 as I don't have mine anymore, but I would double check if I were you.

Usuallly it is recommended to calibrate in the lamp mode and iris setting you plan to use...
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post #1532 of 1634 Old 02-01-2011, 04:11 AM
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Cheers Manni. Yes, I realise that high lamp mode etc can make a difference so my 750 is back in calibrated mode. Just wish there could be more lumens available in standard mode. I take it that you have rs50 now? Do you find the 2d performance much of an improvement over the 750? On paper it has those extra lumens and I've heard that is has better sharpness.
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post #1533 of 1634 Old 02-01-2011, 04:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canary_Jules View Post

Cheers Manni. Yes, I realise that high lamp mode etc can make a difference so my 750 is back in calibrated mode. Just wish there could be more lumens available in standard mode. I take it that you have rs50 now? Do you find the 2d performance much of an improvement over the 750? On paper it has those extra lumens and I've heard that is has better sharpness.

I personally wouldn't upgrade a 750/rs20 to an rs40/50 just for 2D. But if you're into 3D, an rs40 might give you more brightness. Not sure you'd get more brightness in 2D with an rs50. I didn't.

There seems to be quite a lot of unit to unit variations, so it's difficult to say for sure that you would get this or that.

The only thing you would get for sure is 3D, and it's pretty good on both models (in fact very good for a first gen product) if you can live with minimal ghosting depending on the titles.

I am very happy with my rs50 (in fact an X7), but I am a big fan of 3D, and in this regard the rs50 really delivers...
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post #1534 of 1634 Old 02-01-2011, 04:29 AM
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Thanks for the reflections. I'm not that into 3D I must confess. I've been pretty underwhelmed by what I've seen of it at the cinema - but then I'm underwhelmed by most of the 2D images I've seen at the cinema too So may be 3D looks better at home with active glasses. Will have to check that out. But no, for the moment I'm only interested in 2D. So thanks for making me feel happier staying with my 750 for the time being!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post

I personally wouldn't upgrade a 750/rs20 to an rs40/50 just for 2D. But if you're into 3D, an rs40 might give you more brightness. Not sure you'd get more brightness in 2D with an rs50. I didn't.

There seems to be quite a lot of unit to unit variations, so it's difficult to say for sure that you would get this or that.

The only thing you would get for sure is 3D, and it's pretty good on both models (in fact very good for a first gen product) if you can live with minimal ghosting depending on the titles.

I am very happy with my rs50 (in fact an X7), but I am a big fan of 3D, and in this regard the rs50 really delivers...

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post #1535 of 1634 Old 02-01-2011, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canary_Jules View Post
I suppose the only other alternative is to get a high power screen but that's hard to do without any free cash and I'm a bit wary of sparklies etc.
Or a hush-box? BTW, The HP doesn't have a "sparklie" issue. I've never heard of an actual owner complaining of this. I've heard very few stories about one or two sparklies on a screen, but it seems to be a complete non-issue. Order a sample!
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post #1536 of 1634 Old 02-01-2011, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erkq View Post
Or a hush-box? BTW, The HP doesn't have a "sparklie" issue. I've never heard of an actual owner complaining of this. I've heard very few stories about one or two sparklies on a screen, but it seems to be a complete non-issue. Order a sample!
Sounds good. Do you have a link for the screen?
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post #1537 of 1634 Old 02-01-2011, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canary_Jules View Post
Sounds good. Do you have a link for the screen?
I think people order samples directly from Da-Lite: http://www.da-lite.com/whos_who/
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post #1538 of 1634 Old 02-01-2011, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canary_Jules View Post
I wasn't really satisfied with my calibration yesterday so I had another go at calibrating this morning. I'm amazed. I did a complete calibration with fresh settings in an hour and the results are so much better than yesterday. I have a great greyscale with low DeltaE. The CMS calibrated great with low DeltaE. Most impressive of all is that, following leDahu's principles I managed to dial in a flat 2.22 gamma line in less than 15 minutes! I used my previous custom 2.22 gamma as a base and was perturbed to discover that what was just above 2.22 a couple of hundred hours ago had now sunk to about 2.0. Armed with the new technique it was pretty easy to sort it out this time though!

When I'd finished, as an after thought, I put my 750 into high lamp mode. I always run my lamp on standard and have my iris shut down to 5 now after 650 hours. Occasionally I'll open up the iris to see what it looks like but there isn't too much of a difference TBH. But blow me down! The vibrancy of the picture in high lamp mode, especially with the iris open, was fantastic! It reminded me of the vibrant picture I used to get from my Optoma HD80, which I loved. Damn, I wish the 750 had more lumens available! High lamp mode simply looked great although the fan noise was distracting (though no louder than my old HD80). I suppose the only other alternative is to get a high power screen but that's hard to do without any free cash and I'm a bit wary of sparklies etc.
Thanks for the report. Glad you had success with it. Regarding changing your lamp mode - just a heads up this typically changes the color temperature a few hundred degrees. You may not want to bother with it, but just wanted you to know.
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post #1539 of 1634 Old 02-01-2011, 09:59 AM
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Sorry I missed your post yesterday Jules. It sounds like you're sorted now anyway. I never used the table as by the time I was starting to calibrate properly I had my Lumagen HDQ and used that for gamma, then the VideoEQ Pro (and next the Lumagen Mini3D...does it ever stop? ).

Are you already using the iris fully open with your new calibration? I found with my HD350 that it takes abouot 4 steps on the iris (in the service menu for us lowly HD350 owners ) to gain the same brightness as changing to high lamp mode. I also found it was about the same 4 clicks to match brightness between 16:9 and zoomed 2.35:1 as well if that's of any interest. I'd recommend getting a Tecpel 531 light meter if only to satisfy yourself how bright you image currently is and to monitor how the lamp ages. I aim for 95-100 Lux at screen centre which with my screen equals about 12-13fL. I found I'd been viewing at 5-6fL when I first got the meter, so the iris got opened up lots and I'm already using high power due to flicker in normal mode.

One final thought: Have you tried cleaing your lamp/prism? It can make quite a difference on some projectors depending on hours run. However it may well effect the colour temp and require another calibration, especially if you then close the iris a bit as well.

Zooming: Been there, done that, bought the lens...
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post #1540 of 1634 Old 02-01-2011, 02:05 PM
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Thanks for the response LovingDVD.

Kelvin, interested to know what screen you are using. Mine is a DIY frame with 1.0 gain Harkness Hall Matt White material - 110" diag. Room is black and totally light controlled. Actually I tested a sample of Beamax 1.2 gain against it and my material appeared brighter. I checked the prism just before I recently sent the pj to JVC and it was clean as a whistle. Opening up the iris doesn't seem to make a big difference for me. Putting it into high power did, but then as LovingDVD says that impression of brightness may also have been the result of changing the colour temperature.
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post #1541 of 1634 Old 02-01-2011, 02:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canary_Jules View Post

Thanks for the reflections. I'm not that into 3D I must confess. I've been pretty underwhelmed by what I've seen of it at the cinema - but then I'm underwhelmed by most of the 2D images I've seen at the cinema too So may be 3D looks better at home with active glasses. Will have to check that out. But no, for the moment I'm only interested in 2D. So thanks for making me feel happier staying with my 750 for the time being!

You can't assess 3D from what you see in your local cinema. 3D in most cinemas is really bad. You have to go to the iMax to get a chance to see it done properly.

Size apart, the rs50 provides a better 3D experience than my local cinema, by far. More details, more brightness, better focus. Just like 2D, which is usually better than in most local cinemas.

What I hate in cinemas is these security lights which kill contrast. I went to see a movie today, and the blacks were grey.

The sound was much better, but the picture was only larger.

I'd say try to get a demo from a dealer who offers a good demo room before you rule 3D out. If you've only seen 3D in a local cinema or on a 60" screen TV, you're in for a surprise if you audition an rs50 in a good demo room.
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post #1542 of 1634 Old 02-01-2011, 03:27 PM
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Jules, my screen is the 1.5 gain version and it's 112" wide (2.35:1) which is the same width as a 128" diagonal 16:9. I believe this has been measured by some at nearer 1.3 so who knows what the 1.2 version really measures (maybe less than 1 judging by your comments?). Still surprised that opening the iris doesn't do it for you as 4 clicks should give you the same lumens gain, but high power will change the colour temp, which might slew the results subjectively.

This is why I like to use the Tecpel meter as even if I think the lamp might have dimmed, it's usually because it's just a dark film and when I check it I'm still at 95 Lux on a 100IRE test pattern.

Zooming: Been there, done that, bought the lens...
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post #1543 of 1634 Old 02-01-2011, 11:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1965S View Post

Jules, my screen is the 1.5 gain version and it's 112" wide (2.35:1) which is the same width as a 128" diagonal 16:9. I believe this has been measured by some at nearer 1.3 so who knows what the 1.2 version really measures (maybe less than 1 judging by your comments?). Still surprised that opening the iris doesn't do it for you as 4 clicks should give you the same lumens gain, but high power will change the colour temp, which might slew the results subjectively.

This is why I like to use the Tecpel meter as even if I think the lamp might have dimmed, it's usually because it's just a dark film and when I check it I'm still at 95 Lux on a 100IRE test pattern.

I guess the wow factor was because I opened the iris from -5 to 0 AND put it into high power. Then of course we take into account the raising of the colour temperature.
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post #1544 of 1634 Old 02-01-2011, 11:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post

You can't assess 3D from what you see in your local cinema. 3D in most cinemas is really bad. You have to go to the iMax to get a chance to see it done properly.

Size apart, the rs50 provides a better 3D experience than my local cinema, by far. More details, more brightness, better focus. Just like 2D, which is usually better than in most local cinemas.

What I hate in cinemas is these security lights which kill contrast. I went to see a movie today, and the blacks were grey.

The sound was much better, but the picture was only larger.

I'd say try to get a demo from a dealer who offers a good demo room before you rule 3D out. If you've only seen 3D in a local cinema or on a 60" screen TV, you're in for a surprise if you audition an rs50 in a good demo room.

Cheers, I'll reserve judgement until I can get a decent demo.
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post #1545 of 1634 Old 03-29-2011, 11:05 AM
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Please let me know if this forum has moved. I have a JVC 750, professionally calibrated, ceiling mount, 100 inch screen. 1200 hours on original bulb. The other night I noticed some red running down the left side of the screen, very light, but I noticed. When I ran the color test page on the projector, along with the red, I also saw some yellow bleeding into the white square top left of the test pattern. Adjusting the lens moved the red off the screen, still projected, but not longer seen on the screen. I cleaned the bulb and the prism (first time) and 97% of the yellow is gone. Please let me know if you have encountered this or have a solution. Thanks!
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post #1546 of 1634 Old 03-29-2011, 06:00 PM
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How did the air intake filter look? Any blockage?


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post #1547 of 1634 Old 03-30-2011, 06:34 AM
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It was a mess when I cleaned it. But there is still a hint of yellow bleeding into the white. The Red line down the left is now completely off screen, due to lens adjust, but still there. Do you think a better cleaning of the prism and bulb?
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post #1548 of 1634 Old 03-30-2011, 07:54 AM
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Yes, I think any possible cleaning is worth doing.

When my projector suffered fringing of a color band along one side, the end result was a replacement of the optical block by JVC under warranty.

One calibrator I spoke with suspected that these kinds of problems were heat related and he drilled into me a monthly cleaning on the air intake filter (whether it looked dirty or not) as a way to ensure good consistent cooling airflow.

Being frugal and knowing my warranty period would be over in a few months, I also upped my fan speed to "high altitude", figuring a little fan noise was preferable to the optical block going out a second time -- since the out of warranty repair price was such that it would likely be better to just replace the projector, if it happened again -- but I don't have that kind of budget.

I don't know that this is what's going on with yours, but I figure you posted here to get all the data and input and observations you could from owners of JVC projectors.

My hope is that a cleaning of what you have access to will help you.

However, if the unit is still under warranty, I would definitely send it to JVC.


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post #1549 of 1634 Old 03-30-2011, 08:07 AM
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I have to see if I am still under warranty...don't think so. Was hoping to avoid the JVC visit AND having to put out additional money...espcially a heavy cost. Out of curiosity, how long did they keep the projector for and how long did you own the projector before you got banding. Thank you.
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post #1550 of 1634 Old 03-30-2011, 08:11 AM
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Took about six weeks since these are now older units and they have to wait on the block to arrive from Japan. The unit was within six months of the end of warranty, to give you a sense of the age of the unit.

If you have that option (service under warranty), I 1000% recommend you do that. If not, then if I were you I'd do whatever cleaning I can, and see if that helps.


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post #1551 of 1634 Old 03-30-2011, 08:17 AM
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Really good advice. Will check the warranty...which I think is 2 years.

Thank you.

I wonder, has the rest of the forum members upgraded to different projectors?
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post #1552 of 1634 Old 03-30-2011, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by decny View Post

I wonder, has the rest of the forum members upgraded to different projectors?

Not this one. Happy as a clam, except the greens are getting a little out of hand. I'm just too lazy to calibrate it. I'd rather watch.
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post #1553 of 1634 Old 04-15-2011, 02:01 PM
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Update: Still under warranty. Sent back to JVC for repair. Turns out that it is the Optical Block. Currently waiting for parts to arrive. Thank you for the advice and feedback.
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post #1554 of 1634 Old 04-15-2011, 07:06 PM
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Glad to hear it's getting worked out. That's a good solution.


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post #1555 of 1634 Old 04-29-2011, 08:14 AM
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Hi all - quick question. If I was to get my RS20 calibrated and then change the bulb would the projector need to be calibrated again? The bulb currently has 500 hours and is sytarting to look a little on the dim side.
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post #1556 of 1634 Old 04-29-2011, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warbie View Post

Hi all - quick question. If I was to get my RS20 calibrated and then change the bulb would the projector need to be calibrated again? The bulb currently has 500 hours and is sytarting to look a little on the dim side.

Yes. A new bulb will have different brightness and color characteristics than a bulb with some hours. So periodic tweaking of the CMS is recommended.

-Alex-
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post #1557 of 1634 Old 04-29-2011, 04:34 PM
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Thanks for the quick reply, bairda.

Another question - as bulbs vary, does that mean the preset thx mode varies in accuracy from machine to machine? Or are they calibrated for each unit? I'm trying to work out whether it's worth calibrating now, or buying a new bulb, waiting for a few hundred hours, and then getting it done. If a calibrated machine that then gets a new bulb is better with its calibrated settings than with the preset thx mode i'll give it a shot now as I think this bulb has a few hundred hours left in it, otherwise i'll probably wait.
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post #1558 of 1634 Old 04-29-2011, 05:44 PM
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Via their certification of a particular product, THX claims they certify that all units will meet a certain closeness to the standard when in THX mode. Manufacturers do not individually calibrate the THX mode.

So THX mode is usually the most accurate default mode available, but several factors including bulb variations when new, or changes over time when aging, and different screen types, wall or ceiling color in the room, etc, can all be a factor, too.

I get a professional calibration after 100-150 hours on each new bulb, and then an annual check up during the life of the bulb.


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post #1559 of 1634 Old 05-08-2011, 05:55 AM
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I have some specific questions about the settings of my HDI Dune Smart B1 (lastest firmware) network player. For your information: I m running my Dune with a JVC RS20 projector.

Video settings:

1. Video Mode:
what do I have to choose here? Do I have to choose Auto or the highest my display can? (so in my case, jvc RS20 this would be 1080p60).

2. Aspect Ratio:
Auto or 16:9?

Framerate:
Auto or 24/50/60?

HDMI Color Depth:

Auto, 8,10 or 12?

HDMI CEC:
Disable or Enable?

Force DVI Output:
Yes or No?

Output Colorspace:
Auto, BT.609, BT.709, RGB-Full or RGB-Limited?

Default Decoder Colorspace:

Auto, BT.601 or BT.709?


Audio Settings:


Dynamic Range Control:
Off, Medium, High or Auto?

Volume Control:

Off, Best Quality or Allow Overload?


General Settings:


Fast Disc Access:
Disable or Enable?

Fast SMB Access:
Disable or Enable?

Blu-Ray Playback Improvements:
Disable or Enable?

Blu-Ray Bitstream Improvements:
Disable or Enable?

I know it s will be some work but is it possible that for the ones that know exactly what all settings DO that you guys give a further explanation of the specific settings I ask about?

Thanks for all help and input!

Greetings.
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post #1560 of 1634 Old 05-08-2011, 08:40 AM
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I believe this post would be more appropriate in the digital video area for Dune HD. The folks that use the Dune's would be able to elaborate on these settings.

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