Projector - HD1080P - 30' Throw - What are my Options - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 33 Old 05-19-2009, 02:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Screen size 150'' SMX Pro HD

My throw distance is about 30 feet and the options are killing me.

The room is a dedicated build in basement with ample light control.. Dark..

Can you suggest some picks under $6000 or review these

PT-AE3000U
Sony VPL-VW70
Jvc DLA-RS20
Optoma HD80LV
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post #2 of 33 Old 05-19-2009, 02:14 PM
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I don't know if any of those are going to have enough light for your screen. With 67 square feet of screen, you would need a projector with 800 lumens at the start to achieve 12ftl. If a typical bulb drops by 50%, you would need a projector that initially had 1600 lumens. Maybe a Sim2 Lumis or another 3 chip projector would get you there but they aren't anywhere near $6k.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence

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post #3 of 33 Old 05-20-2009, 08:05 AM - Thread Starter
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I am almost thinking of abandoing the Projector room concept due to throw issues and budget.

If I can bring the PJ in to the HT room say 20 Feet. Are my PJ choices still viable.. which one is suited the best for a big room with curved screen?

Please help me decide !!
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post #4 of 33 Old 05-20-2009, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pkoduru View Post

Screen size 150'' SMX Pro HD

Well lets start from the top, if that's 16x9 screen assume:
150" diag 16x9 screen is about 67 sqft.
SMX gain is 1.16x
Recommended brightness is 12-16ftL

That means:
12*67/1.16 ~= 700 Lumens
16*67/1.16 ~= 950 Lumens

Consider lamps dim considrably over life so aiming higher, you're looking for about a 1000 real, calibrated Lumen projector.

As for throw, that's a 131" wide screen, 30 ft = 2.74x That's pretty long
If you go 20ft = 1.83x, that's not too hard.

Quote:


Can you suggest some picks under $6000 or review these

PT-AE3000U
Sony VPL-VW70
Jvc DLA-RS20
Optoma HD80LV

The projector that immediately jumps out at me with those requirements is the InFocus IN83. It's very bright, 1000 Lumens shouldn't be much of a challenge for it, and it would have a throw of 20-24' for that sized screen.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do,
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post #5 of 33 Old 05-20-2009, 10:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrlittlejeans View Post

I don't know if any of those are going to have enough light for your screen. With 67 square feet of screen, you would need a projector with 800 lumens at the start to achieve 12ftl. If a typical bulb drops by 50%, you would need a projector that initially had 1600 lumens. Maybe a Sim2 Lumis or another 3 chip projector would get you there but they aren't anywhere near $6k.

1600 Lumens....How about the Infocus IN83??? You can find them for under 4 grand and I think if you add in a Vutec Silverstar instead of an SMX screen you would have enough overall lumens from 30ft away. I had an Infocus IN7200 from 22ft away on a 133" Silverstar and it was plenty bright..... way brighter than when I had the same set up shooting onto a 100" FireHawk.

Charles
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post #6 of 33 Old 05-21-2009, 08:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3050charles View Post

1600 Lumens....How about the Infocus IN83??? You can find them for under 4 grand and I think if you add in a Vutec Silverstar instead of an SMX screen you would have enough overall lumens from 30ft away. I had an Infocus IN7200 from 22ft away on a 133" Silverstar and it was plenty bright..... way brighter than when I had the same set up shooting onto a 100" FireHawk.


Boy Vutec will cost me a fortune.. Retail $25,000...
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post #7 of 33 Old 05-21-2009, 09:44 AM
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Do you need the AT screen? If not, get a highpower for under $1k and one of the projectors from your list above (except the Optoma) and be happy. If you need the AT screen, you will need a very bright projector or your picture will be very dim.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence

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post #8 of 33 Old 05-21-2009, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pkoduru View Post

Boy Vutec will cost me a fortune.. Retail $25,000...

If its just the standard 59" by 138.5" 2.35 AR Silverstar, meaning no automated masking, it will cost you no more than 6K and that is only if you pay full retail. AV Science would give you a nice deal on the screen. The largest the screens go are 59" high, unless you buy one with a seam. For 16x9, the largest unseamed Silverstar is 59" by 105", 120.5" diagonal.
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post #9 of 33 Old 05-21-2009, 06:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hrd View Post

If its just the standard 59" by 138.5" 2.35 AR Silverstar, meaning no automated masking, it will cost you no more than 6K and that is only if you pay full retail. AV Science would give you a nice deal on the screen. The largest the screens go are 59" high, unless you buy one with a seam. For 16x9, the largest unseamed Silverstar is 59" by 105", 120.5" diagonal.

I found a demo Curved AT screen of SMX 150" at a reasonable price...

Now the challenge is with the projector to fill it.. SIMS is out of my reach..

Any options..if I can reduce my throw between 15-20 ft
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post #10 of 33 Old 05-21-2009, 06:22 PM
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You mean like these recommendations:

Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

Well lets start from the top, if that's 16x9 screen assume:
150" diag 16x9 screen is about 67 sqft.
SMX gain is 1.16x
Recommended brightness is 12-16ftL

That means:
12*67/1.16 ~= 700 Lumens
16*67/1.16 ~= 950 Lumens

Consider lamps dim considrably over life so aiming higher, you're looking for about a 1000 real, calibrated Lumen projector.

As for throw, that's a 131" wide screen, 30 ft = 2.74x That's pretty long
If you go 20ft = 1.83x, that's not too hard.



The projector that immediately jumps out at me with those requirements is the InFocus IN83. It's very bright, 1000 Lumens shouldn't be much of a challenge for it, and it would have a throw of 20-24' for that sized screen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3050charles View Post

1600 Lumens....How about the Infocus IN83??? You can find them for under 4 grand and I think if you add in a Vutec Silverstar instead of an SMX screen you would have enough overall lumens from 30ft away. I had an Infocus IN7200 from 22ft away on a 133" Silverstar and it was plenty bright..... way brighter than when I had the same set up shooting onto a 100" FireHawk.


See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do,
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post #11 of 33 Old 05-21-2009, 07:53 PM
 
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Why not use a nice rack to set the projector on in the middle of the room behind seating? I mean, you have to compromise somewhere, whether it's projector placement, price, or quality (contrast, likely, and color accuracy as well to squeeze the most brightness out of anything).

I have a similar situation with a new room, 25ft back wall and vaulted ceilings rules out ceiling mount, and back wall shelf mount. Compromising on the projector doesn't seem like the best option ... when the lights are out, there's only one thing you're looking at.

Coffee table maybe?

150" is hard enough to light up as close to the screen as possible; pushing it 30ft back is going to make things nigh impossible.
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post #12 of 33 Old 05-21-2009, 08:39 PM - Thread Starter
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.I can mount it in the middle of the room since my ceiling is flat.no issues ....

But based on the reviews, IN83 has no lens shift and which puts restrictions on where it can be mounted to fill any given screen size.

May be all I should try couple of 1000+ lumen projectors to see which one fills the screen THE BEST.

Panny AE3000 is one model I am curious to find how it fits...Any other LCD's you can think of?
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post #13 of 33 Old 05-21-2009, 09:05 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pkoduru View Post

.I can mount it in the middle of the room since my ceiling is flat.no issues ....

But based on the reviews, IN83 has no lens shift and which puts restrictions on where it can be mounted to fill any given screen size.

May be all I should try couple of 1000+ lumen projectors to see which one fills the screen THE BEST.

Panny AE3000 is one model I am curious to find how it fits...Any other LCD's you can think of?

Sorry, I was thinking you were fixed at 30ft throw for some reason. In this case, a throw of max zoom on any projector is definitely the way to go. Squeeze every last drop!

Epson 7500UB another option to compare with the AE3000U?

You may want to find out how you like LCoS vs LCD vs DLP first, just a thought.

Maybe an RS10 and A-lens (should fit the $6K budget?), perm mask (velvet) the top and bottom of the screen and go CIH? Still gives you the nearly 11ft wide screen, and 142" diagonal (2.35). Leaves you 56" vertical behind the non-masked SMX portion (no need for AT masking). I don't know what $2-2.5K (after RS10 budget) gets you in A-lens land these days, but it would still make use of that SMX deal you found.
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post #14 of 33 Old 05-21-2009, 09:06 PM
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Look at Epson 6500, super bright, super cheap...compromise is unavoidable with your screen size/budget.
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post #15 of 33 Old 05-22-2009, 05:28 AM - Thread Starter
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RS10 is around $4k street price..adding a lens with it is still in my budget ( I was considering a Sony VPL-70 before)

If you own one, which lens do you recommend with RS10 or Epsons?

BTW, SMX is throwing free masking panels with my deal for AVS members
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post #16 of 33 Old 05-22-2009, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pkoduru View Post

But based on the reviews, IN83 has no lens shift and which puts restrictions on where it can be mounted to fill any given screen size.

How high's your ceiling? Don't throw it out just because it's not flexible. If your ceiling is about 73"*.36 = 26" above the screen top, the IN83 will work just fine for you. Even if it's not quite that high, you can still get great results with just a slight tilt of the screen.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do,
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post #17 of 33 Old 05-22-2009, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pkoduru View Post

RS10 is around $4k street price..adding a lens with it is still in my budget ( I was considering a Sony VPL-70 before)

If you own one, which lens do you recommend with RS10 or Epsons?

BTW, SMX is throwing free masking panels with my deal for AVS members

I had a rs10 and a panamorph uh480 and I also have a 150" wide smx. I have since replaced the rs10 with a sim2 c3x1080. At around 500 hrs I was becoming pretty unimpressed with the image (washed out). And my throw is only 17 feet. I can only imagine how dim it would be at 30'!

Can you do a shorter throw, and possibly a smaller screen?

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post #18 of 33 Old 05-22-2009, 09:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnwalters View Post

I had a rs10 and a panamorph uh480 and I also have a 150" wide smx. I have since replaced the rs10 with a sim2 c3x1080. At around 500 hrs I was becoming pretty unimpressed with the image (washed out). And my throw is only 17 feet. I can only imagine how dim it would be at 30'!

Can you do a shorter throw, and possibly a smaller screen?

Shawn,
How smaller?

BTW, I am in chicago area too..NW suburbs.. Can I take a peek at your awesome HT sometime and learn from your experiences. It would of great help.. I will send you a private message
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post #19 of 33 Old 05-22-2009, 09:11 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnwalters View Post

I had a rs10 and a panamorph uh480 and I also have a 150" wide smx. I have since replaced the rs10 with a sim2 c3x1080. At around 500 hrs I was becoming pretty unimpressed with the image (washed out). And my throw is only 17 feet. I can only imagine how dim it would be at 30'!

Can you do a shorter throw, and possibly a smaller screen?

131" wide 2.35 is only 75% the size screen your 150" wide is...

That's if we're assuming it's a 150" diagonal 16:9 pkoduru is talking about, is that right?

The RS10 at 131" wide with an A-lens should be good until a half-dim lamp, roughly 8-10ftL range @ 1000hrs, no? Of course needing a throw utilizing the wide end of the zoom to get that light output.
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post #20 of 33 Old 05-22-2009, 09:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LilGator View Post

131" wide 2.35 is only 75% the size screen your 150" wide is...

That's if we're assuming it's a 150" diagonal 16:9 pkoduru is talking about, is that right?

The RS10 at 131" wide with an A-lens should be good until a half-dim lamp, roughly 8-10ftL range @ 1000hrs, no? Of course needing a throw utilizing the wide end of the zoom to get that light output.

Just to be clear.. I was thinking of a 2:35:1 155" diagonal screen (150 Wide / 68 height) appx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pkoduru View Post

Just to be clear.. I was thinking of a 2:35:1 155" diagonal screen (150 Wide / 68 height) appx

Gotcha, Shawn's setup shows that it would probably rule out most 1000 lumen rated projectors like the RS10 then... looks like DLP (IN83) or LCD (Panny or Epson) are your options unless you masked the screen size down of course.
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post #22 of 33 Old 05-22-2009, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pkoduru View Post

Just to be clear.. I was thinking of a 2:35:1 155" diagonal screen (150 Wide / 68 height) appx

So how high is your ceiling?

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do,
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post #23 of 33 Old 05-22-2009, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LilGator View Post

Gotcha, Shawn's setup shows that it would probably rule out most 1000 lumen rated projectors like the RS10 then... looks like DLP (IN83) or LCD (Panny or Epson) are your options unless you masked the screen size down of course.

Both the Panny and the Epson are dimmer than the RS10 when calibrated to D75, no?

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence

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post #24 of 33 Old 05-22-2009, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pkoduru View Post

Just to be clear.. I was thinking of a 2:35:1 155" diagonal screen (150 Wide / 68 height) appx

Your dimensions don't match up. For a 2.35:1 screen, 68" height should mean 173.67" diagonal, not 155" diagonal. Try the calculator below:

http://www.siscreens.com/calc/calc.php?series_code=RF
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post #25 of 33 Old 05-22-2009, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LilGator View Post

Gotcha, Shawn's setup shows that it would probably rule out most 1000 lumen rated projectors like the RS10 then... looks like DLP (IN83) or LCD (Panny or Epson) are your options unless you masked the screen size down of course.

My recommendation is to get an RS20 and either mask down the screen or replace the screen with a Da-Lite High Power screen.
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post #26 of 33 Old 05-22-2009, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hrd View Post

My recommendation is to get an RS20 and either mask down the screen or replace the screen with a Da-Lite High Power screen.

+1. I've come to the conclusion that, while AT is nice, the brightness and punch isn't there until you step up to 3 chip DLP. The IN83 could do it for brightness, but I would want a lot better on/off contrast ratio than the IN83 offers. I'm using an RS20 on a 54" X 128" woven screen very similar to the SMX screen and am going to go back to a highpower, even though it means making some compromise in the audio department.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrlittlejeans View Post

Both the Panny and the Epson are dimmer than the RS10 when calibrated to D75, no?

Yeah you're right, I was assuming he wouldn't be using a "very" calibrated mode to get the crucial more-than-1000 lumens. Since the RS10 can't do more than 1000 calibrated or not, his only option are projectors capable of more lumens, calibrated or not. Not being most likely.

The Epson can crank out nearly 1700 lumens in "Living Room" mode (slightly more accurate than dynamic maybe?), but it looks like the Panny can't do over 1000 no matter what mode, like the RS10.

So I guess the Epson and IN-83 are the only options left, albeit compromises, for that screen size and budget. (Optoma HD81-LV maybe, depending on street?)

If image quality is most important, the screen size needs to come down, or the screen material needs to change, or both.

Or the budget needs a "little" boost.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hrd View Post

My recommendation is to get an RS20 and either mask down the screen or replace the screen with a Da-Lite High Power screen.

Good recommendation too. Assuming a masked down SMX screen, would an RS20 or an RS10 + A-lens (CIH) be a better option? Would he get away with a larger screen size (less of the 150" wide masked) with the RS10 + A-lens?
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post #28 of 33 Old 05-22-2009, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pkoduru View Post

Shawn,
How smaller?

BTW, I am in chicago area too..NW suburbs.. Can I take a peek at your awesome HT sometime and learn from your experiences. It would of great help.. I will send you a private message

Sure, you're welcome to come over

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post #29 of 33 Old 05-22-2009, 07:41 PM
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The rs10 is about 600 lumens I believe at D65. I've seen several builds with 130" wide scope screens getting great results from the JVC's. If I had to guess, that's probably the max they can handle before start looking washed out.

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post #30 of 33 Old 05-26-2009, 10:37 AM - Thread Starter
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I was able to take some picture of my basement to give it a perspective..

Here is what I was originally thinking (specs)

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