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post #541 of 1602 Old 09-06-2009, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Richard Tywoniak View Post

vw300 laser/led - any time frames on that - never heard of it

Sorry Richard ... my mistake ... too much infos ... a lapsus by me ....

VW300 will be the first 4K prosumer machine ...
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post #542 of 1602 Old 09-06-2009, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Highlander_AVS View Post

Shure ..

I'll be able to see due my dealer is preparing 3 shootouts in Milan, Rome and Catania as soon as all the machines will be out (JVC, Sony, Planar, Vivitek H9080FD Led, Epson and Panasonic )

That will be VERY interesting. I await the results with 'bated breath!
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post #543 of 1602 Old 09-06-2009, 12:04 PM
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That would be one heck of a shoot out - even worth a trip to Italy to see that one. I probably could even convince my wife - being that it is Italy!

:-)
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post #544 of 1602 Old 09-06-2009, 12:15 PM
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Jason will you be able to compare the new sony vw-85 to the rs 35? This should be fun.
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post #545 of 1602 Old 09-06-2009, 12:47 PM
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Is AVS pricing available yet on the RS35?

Affable Nitwit
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post #546 of 1602 Old 09-06-2009, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Highlander_AVS View Post

...
As a Lucky man .. No need of hand picked components paying for them additional $2000 (990....)...

Someone on the AV Forums in the UK made a similar point, basically saying that the RS35 is essentially a hand picked RS25. I do not believe that would be the case and here is why...

As many here know and as Mark mentioned above there is great variability between these components from unit to unit - the lens and light engine, chips, polarizers, convergence and much more varies.

So in any given RS25 lets suppose you typically would have a mix - for example one unit may have really good convergence and optics, but mediocre chips - with the result being great convergence and sharpness but maybe the on/off and fade to black is not as great as in other RS25s - but its sharpness is better. Then you can have a different unit that is better in some things and worse in others, yielding its own advantages and disadvantages compared to other machines.

Then you may have some machines that are unlucky and generally have poorer components with results on the low end across the board compared to other machines, and the opposite with some lucky machines.

So if what I understand is correct, then with the RS35 they are using the best of ALL the components, essentially guaranteeing you a stellar machine. If you have a dealer that is able somehow to go through dozens and dozens of machines and hand pick the best, that may be similar to the RS35. Most of us do not have such an option. And perhaps with some rare exceptions (like I said earlier, trying dozens of machines) I would anticipate (expect) that the RS35 would outperform even hand picked RS20s.

I can see why this approach may upset some. As I mentioned earlier, for me I am happy to pay the premium and actually appreciate having the HD990 as an option. If the premium turns out to be worth it to me, I will go for it. If not I will either skip an upgrade this year, or go with another machine. But at least I have the option. Maybe I am biased because I have had troubles in the past with the initial units I've gotten and had to go through some hassles to get it straightened out, but nonetheless this option removes the biggest obstacle of upgrading for me - which is predictability.
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post #547 of 1602 Old 09-06-2009, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Lawguy View Post

Is AVS pricing available yet on the RS35?

Jason posted yesterday that pricing is now available and to email him, which I have. Not sure if anyone has heard back as it is a holiday weekend of course. I have my hunch on the pricing and I think as long as the RS20 holds it value ok on a resale the delta is going to be upgrade-worthy.
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post #548 of 1602 Old 09-06-2009, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by erkq View Post

BUY measuring equipment. The Eye1 is, what, $130? Good software (HCFR) is free. The time it takes is... fun! You get close enough to make a big difference.

Thanks, I will look into your suggestion! I thought it would be a lot more expensive than that.
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post #549 of 1602 Old 09-06-2009, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

..... I think as long as the RS20 holds it value ok on a resale the delta is going to be upgrade-worthy.


The delta I think will be another used RS20 ....
or PM me if I'm wrong ....
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post #550 of 1602 Old 09-06-2009, 02:23 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Highlander_AVS View Post


The delta I think will be another used RS20 ....
or PM me if I'm wrong ....

The better the price on the RS35, the less value that used RS20 will hold.

Take the current RS10 street, double it- that's ballpark what the RS35 will street. I don't see any reason pointing otherwise...
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post #551 of 1602 Old 09-06-2009, 02:25 PM
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I can see why this approach may upset some.

This has been one of my pet peeves with JVC as a company (the other pet peeve is the lack of a color accurate preset on their low end machines). Why isn't the QC more consistent from machine to machine? DLPs do not seem to share this QC inconsistency, and even Sony SXRD machines don't have as many reports. I almost bought an RS-20 on this last round, but in the end I was too scared of getting a lemon again (my RS-1 was certainly subpar). Since I am one of those people who does not like to return a product unless it is outright defective, I just want to be confident that I have at least a greater than 50% chance of getting what I wanted, but JVC projectors seem to be a crapshoot at best. I returned my first JVC RS-1 because of low lumens and bad convergence...the second one was a bit better in those departments (though still not great), but had lower contrast and uniformity. I am not the type of person to keep sending units back, especially knowing that my "bad" unit will probably be sold to another customer, albeit at a lower price. The solution is to QC the parts before allowing them to go into a finished product and then overseeing the projector assembly process and insisting on better workmanship.

As far as the RS-35 is concerned, we are all just speculating here. My hopes are that there is something more than just "higher performance parts" that will make this machine special. Hopefully JVC will have this machine at CEDIA and we will at least have the opportunity to hear first hand reports as to how it compares to a "stock" RS-25.

And for the record, the difference between 50k CR and 70k CR, though it sounds impressive, will be almost impossible to differentiate by eye. The bigger issue here is the improvement in optics, uniformity, and convergence from a tighter spec'd unit. To be honest, I have no idea what the better wire grid polarizers will do for image quality.
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post #552 of 1602 Old 09-06-2009, 02:37 PM
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Or, to summarize, I would like to own an RS-35, but pay for an RS-25...
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post #553 of 1602 Old 09-06-2009, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Sorel View Post

This has been one of my pet peeves with JVC as a company (the other pet peeve is the lack of a color accurate preset on their low end machines). Why isn't the QC more consistent from machine to machine? DLPs do not seem to share this QC inconsistency, and even Sony SXRD machines don't have as many reports. I almost bought an RS-20 on this last round, but in the end I was too scared of getting a lemon again (my RS-1 was certainly subpar). Since I am one of those people who does not like to return a product unless it is outright defective, I just want to be confident that I have at least a greater than 50% chance of getting what I wanted, but JVC projectors seem to be a crapshoot at best. I returned my first JVC RS-1 because of low lumens and bad convergence...the second one was a bit better in those departments (though still not great), but had lower contrast and uniformity. I am not the type of person to keep sending units back, especially knowing that my "bad" unit will probably be sold to another customer, albeit at a lower price. The solution is to QC the parts before allowing them to go into a finished product and then overseeing the projector assembly process and insisting on better workmanship.

As far as the RS-35 is concerned, we are all just speculating here. My hopes are that there is something more than just "higher performance parts" that will make this machine special. Hopefully JVC will have this machine at CEDIA and we will at least have the opportunity to hear first hand reports as to how it compares to a "stock" RS-25.

And for the record, the difference between 50k CR and 70k CR, though it sounds impressive, will be almost impossible to differentiate by eye. The bigger issue here is the improvement in optics, uniformity, and convergence from a tighter spec'd unit. To be honest, I have no idea what the better wire grid polarizers will do for image quality.

+1

If the parts meet spec, they meet spec. If the hand picked parts are "better," the specs should indicate higher performance. Why there is such an acceptance of loose tolerances, if that's what we're talking about, is a bit odd. There are plenty of items we buy every day that are produced within very tight tolerances from unit to unit, with no need to create a special category of superiority to compensate for loose QC at the outset.

If the differences are related to different parts that are spec'd higher, that's legitimate. Otherwise, it feels a little like a ploy to try and pry an additional 2k from early adopters. If we don't buy it, maybe they'll get the message!

Perhaps too we need to see what JVC is stating as to the variances we should expect (ie, convergence, brightness, sharpness, etc., in a 950/25 vs a 990/35. How is the $2k quantified objectively? Perhaps that will come out at CEDIA...
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post #554 of 1602 Old 09-06-2009, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Sorel View Post

This has been one of my pet peeves with JVC as a company (the other pet peeve is the lack of a color accurate preset on their low end machines). Why isn't the QC more consistent from machine to machine? DLPs do not seem to share this QC inconsistency, ....

Bob, I'm really not sure this rant is on the mark. I've read many posts about people having to return Sony's, and even stories about how many times the highly regarded SIM2 dlp's had to be turned (and we won't even bring up Optoma, etc.) One hears about JVC--and I'm certainly not defending them as spotless--because so many have sold. My guess is they are among the better ones in this regard.
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post #555 of 1602 Old 09-06-2009, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

Bob, I'm really not sure this rant is on the mark. I've read many posts about people having to return Sony's, and even stories about how many times the highly regarded SIM2 dlp's had to be turned (and we won't even bring up Optoma, etc.) One hears about JVC--and I'm certainly not defending them as spotless--because so many have sold. My guess is they are among the better ones in this regard.

not to mention BenQ, and the bad track record of Optoma in addition. That's just DLP. LCD is just as bad if not worse.
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post #556 of 1602 Old 09-06-2009, 03:57 PM
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I don't understand why anyone would purchase a HD950 over the HD990, due to the $2K MSRP price difference.

IMO, you shouldn't be spending $8K on a projector if you can't afford the extra $2K for a handpicked HD990, especially in this economy.

Just my opinion.

PS
I'll call AVS (for the first time) on Tuesday, to see if I can get a special deal on a HD990 as a club member.

Hopefully, it will be a true upgrade from my current projector......a Panny 200.
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post #557 of 1602 Old 09-06-2009, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Elkhunter View Post

I don't understand why anyone would purchase a HD950 over the HD990, due to the $2K MSRP price difference.

IMO, you shouldn't be spending $8K on a projector if you can't afford the extra $2K for a handpicked HD990, especially in this economy.

Just my opinion.

PS
I'll call AVS (for the first time) on Tuesday, to see if I can get a special deal on a HD990 as a club member.

Hopefully, it will be a true upgrade from my current projector......a Panny 200.

Besides their earnings, most rich people are rich because they don't have a cavalier attitude toward overspending even $50, much less $2,000, if there isn't a real value. If there is, no problem.
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post #558 of 1602 Old 09-06-2009, 04:03 PM
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OFF Topic question here:
Is the Xenon lamp (in the Sony VW200) that much better than UHP lamps? I read that it gives a much higher and consistent red color (red spectrum is where UHP lamps fail to deliver adequately).
And if true, why doesn't JVC use Xenon lamps in their top of the line pj?

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post #559 of 1602 Old 09-06-2009, 04:08 PM
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Bob, I'm really not sure this rant is on the mark. I've read many posts about people having to return Sony's, and even stories about how many times the highly regarded SIM2 dlp's had to be turned (and we won't even bring up Optoma, etc.) One hears about JVC--and I'm certainly not defending them as spotless--because so many have sold. My guess is they are among the better ones in this regard.

I am talking about units that pass QC and and are shipped out as "meeting spec", not units that are outright defective. But maybe you are right, it might just be due to the vast number of units sold.

I would never even consider buying a unit from BenQ or Optoma because they just have too many bad units right out of the box - not even on my radar screen of "quality projectors I would consider buying". Are there lots of problems with Sony PJs that are returned for not meeting spec but otherwise considered sellable? As for Sim2, my unit was perfect, and I have only heard of a couple of people with bad units, though it might seem like more because we hear the same stories repeated. Planar doesn't seem to have a problem, nor does Marantz, InFocus (as far as I know), and Sharp.

I would just like to be able to buy a JVC projector without the nagging feeling of keeping my fingers crossed and carrying a rabbit's foot when I make the purchase. It seems like the RS-35 would be the right choice for me, if only it were priced like the RS-25.

Sorry about the rant. I know this is the wrong place to say anything negative about JVC.
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post #560 of 1602 Old 09-06-2009, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Sorel View Post

Or, to summarize, I would like to own an RS-35, but pay for an RS-25...

You are brutally honest. From your mouth to the projector god's ears.
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post #561 of 1602 Old 09-06-2009, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeinoonm View Post

OFF Topic question here:
Is the Xenon lamp (in the Sony VW200) that much better than UHP lamps? I read that it gives a much higher and consistent red color (red spectrum is where UHP lamps fail to deliver adequately).
And if true, why doesn't JVC use Xenon lamps in their top of the line pj?

I had a Sony Ruby years ago with the Xenon lamp. I frequently see questions like yours or see comments about a Xenon lamp being better because it provides richer colors.

Assuming one is interested in calibrating to HD standards, as in Rec 709, then it doesn't make a difference. As long as the projector can be calibrated to Rec 709 and puts out a flicker free stable image the colors are going to look identical whether its Xenon or UHP etc.
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post #562 of 1602 Old 09-06-2009, 05:00 PM
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thrang:

Rich people will purchase a Lumis, not a JVC. They wouldn't be caught dead with a JVC in their HT; not even an HD990.

They hangout over in the Ultra Hi-End HT Gear ($20,000+) forum.

Those of us here, in this forum, are middle-class people. If I was rich, I'd be over in the Lumis thread.
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post #563 of 1602 Old 09-06-2009, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elkhunter View Post

thrang:

Rich people will purchase a Lumis, not a JVC. They wouldn't be caught dead with a JVC in their HT; not even an HD990.

They hangout over in the Ultra Hi-End HT Gear ($20,000+) forum.

Those of us here, in this forum, are middle-class people. If I was rich, I'd be over in the Lumis thread.

We're talking serious relativity here. $8K for a projector is formidible by measure of 98% of our fellow citizens. We are blessed...to be middle class.
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post #564 of 1602 Old 09-06-2009, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

I had a Sony Ruby years ago with the Xenon lamp. I frequently see questions like yours or see comments about a Xenon lamp being better because it provides richer colors.

Assuming one is interested in calibrating to HD standards, as in Rec 709, then it doesn't make a difference. As long as the projector can be calibrated to Rec 709 and puts out a flicker free stable image the colors are going to look identical whether its Xenon or UHP etc.

I tend to agree with you, if the Xenon lamp was really better, JVC or other manufacturers would have used it. The only caveat is: UHP lamps tend to be short on red spectrum sometimes, even after Rec 709 calibration. This is especially true when the lamp starts to dim. Now i am no expert, but i have "heard" that being said by several forum members. What do you think?

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post #565 of 1602 Old 09-06-2009, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by zeinoonm View Post

I tend to agree with you, if the Xenon lamp was really better, JVC or other manufacturers would have used it. The only caveat is: UHP lamps tend to be short on red spectrum sometimes, even after Rec 709 calibration. This is especially true when the lamp starts to dim. Now i am no expert, but i have "heard" that being said by several forum members. What do you think?

I heard the xenon lamps are very expensive to replace.
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post #566 of 1602 Old 09-06-2009, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeinoonm View Post

I tend to agree with you, if the Xenon lamp was really better, JVC or other manufacturers would have used it. The only caveat is: UHP lamps tend to be short on red spectrum sometimes, even after Rec 709 calibration. This is especially true when the lamp starts to dim. Now i am no expert, but i have "heard" that being said by several forum members. What do you think?

This is a good point. IF a Xenon lamp could maintain brightness and or a D65 calibration longer, then that would be an advantage. However I often see folks posting about how the colors are "richer" or "fuller" because of the Xenon lamp. That's actually impossible if the projector is calibrated to D65, in which case all shades of color are going to look practically identical to another D65 calibrated projector...
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post #567 of 1602 Old 09-06-2009, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elkhunter View Post

thrang:

Rich people will purchase a Lumis, not a JVC. They wouldn't be caught dead with a JVC in their HT; not even an HD990.

They hangout over in the Ultra Hi-End HT Gear ($20,000+) forum.

Those of us here, in this forum, are middle-class people. If I was rich, I'd be over in the Lumis thread.

That's a broad generalization. What is your definition of rich? There's a forum member who owns a 750K Enzo (among many other to die for cars), and is a big fan of JVC projectors.
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post #568 of 1602 Old 09-06-2009, 05:52 PM
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That's a broad generalization. What is your definition of rich? There's a forum member who owns a 750K Enzo (among many other to die for cars), and is a big fan of JVC projectors.

All enzo's are 1 M now.
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post #569 of 1602 Old 09-06-2009, 06:04 PM
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That's a broad generalization. What is your definition of rich? There's a forum member who owns a 750K Enzo (among many other to die for cars), and is a big fan of JVC projectors.

thats because he spent all his money on the enzo

Dustin
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post #570 of 1602 Old 09-06-2009, 06:14 PM
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thats because he spent all his money on the enzo

Not hardly. This guy has another Ferrari which is a brand new one. Punch up Chris Dallas and look at his car pics. He is also a very nice gentleman.
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