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post #121 of 1602 Old 08-08-2009, 11:46 AM
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Hi Madshi,
I understand where you are coming from but aren't you basing quality on brightness by saying that?
What I was trying to understand is that based on the little I know filmmakers since the begining of the industry have worked to a standard based on the limitations of the projection devices available and have chosen lenses, lighting and film stock based on these limitations.
My point is wouldn't showing these movies now at a brightness that was not available before change the overall look of the films being projected?

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post #122 of 1602 Old 08-08-2009, 11:55 AM
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Ouch Chuck, I was tiptoeing around gently but you went straight for the b#!ls!
Hope you have a flame resistant suit on.
Good luck,
Martin.

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post #123 of 1602 Old 08-08-2009, 12:02 PM
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I am in the some would say, enviable position of outfitting my new home with av gear all over. So far I have put in a 50in g10 (master bdrm) 58b650 (fam room) 2 54in g10 ( in process for rec room yes i must watch morethan one football/basketball game at one time lol ) and since ill have plasmas everywhere I am leaning towards a projector for pre wired media room for general use mainly movies and bigger sporting events, either that or a 65in V10. Ive tried to research the projectors but most of the reviews are at least a year old. unless front projector tech does not progress as fast as most other av tech id think that info is outdated. "i dont need im a newbie handholding sympathy" lol but idont know a thing about front projectors. Ive never even considered it. but with a pre wired dedicated room and absolute lighting control overcoming two of the biggest hurdles usually involved, im now considering.

suggestions are more than welcome or just pointing me to a good source for recent reliable reviews and resources with info on the technology to help make an informed decision.

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post #124 of 1602 Old 08-08-2009, 12:05 PM
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My suggestion is to move brightness related discussion to a more appropriate thread because it's really very much OT here. Here's a beautiful thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=984992
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post #125 of 1602 Old 08-08-2009, 12:15 PM
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Sorry Madshi,
I was just asking a question based on something that was said in an earlier post. Although it does seem a little off that if someone questions something and you dont like it you want to show them the door, your not related to my bank manager are you? All I am saying is Won't most films look odd or just be hard to watch if the brightness is too high, I fully understand that now we have the technology to make films based on the new specs but then aren't we turning our back on over 100 years of filmaking? I love technology but only as a means to an end. The idea of technology calling the shots over the content to me is just wrong. I'm sure now we have digital projection in theatres that the new breed of filmaker will embrase it but would I rather see the new "McG" movie over a 50 year old Hitchcock classic, a David Lean epic or a Kubric masterpiece?, not bloody likely! OK here you go, 'New JVC Projector look's great doesn't it?' Panic over, we're back to the original topic.

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post #126 of 1602 Old 08-08-2009, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Anstey View Post

... If a projector went from several minutes of <1 FtL and then instantly to over 30+ FtL it would be truly blinding and annoying. Also the reverse would be an issue when going from daytime to a nighttime scene and no one can see any details for a few minutes as the eyes adjust. ....

Generally, agree with you, even if the right FL to gets is subjetive and depends to several ambient and configuration factors

This is the reason why with my RS20 and my configuration I stay with Low Lamp mode and -15 Iris with 400 hours lamp on my 120" 1:2 gain having 33 nits against the 50 nits with Low lamp/Iris =0, but white is too white and flashing kill my eyes .. I found 33 nits adeguate and perfect for my config.
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post #127 of 1602 Old 08-08-2009, 02:22 PM
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"The SMPTE recommendation was based upon a scientific study of a broad range of people."

I thought what they learned was that brighter than 16 ft-L w/film made flicker too noticeable.

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post #128 of 1602 Old 08-08-2009, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Anstey View Post

The SMPTE recommendation was based upon a scientific study of a broad range of people.

No, it was based on an equipment limitation that doesn't apply to digital machines.

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post #129 of 1602 Old 08-08-2009, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martinfarinha View Post

I do however have one small issue with what you are saying and that is regarding cinema equipment limitations, are you saying that every movie since the begining of cinema has been screened and viewed incorectly because the lamps were not bright enough?

I'm not saying any such thing, and to suggest I am is a gross misrepresentation of my post.

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post #130 of 1602 Old 08-08-2009, 04:08 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

"The SMPTE recommendation was based upon a scientific study of a broad range of people."

I thought what they learned was that brighter than 16 ft-L w/film made flicker too noticeable.

Yeah I think that's part of it, there is also just the economy of bulbs that bright, which are expensive, and also really bright bulbs require a LOT of cooling, cooling for the film, the lenses, etc etc. Making extremely bright large-screen displays was very difficult, and still is very difficult. That's why projecting something as large as IMAX is no small feat.

I think that brighter home displays are alright, and will be better supported by higher quality content like BD or better. DVD has a lot of artifacts and compression noise which can really be exaggerated and made more visible on very bright large-screen displays if you're sitting at a large viewing angle. I find myself less satisfied with bright screens with lower quality content (broadcast HD, DVD, etc), compared with a good BD.
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post #131 of 1602 Old 08-08-2009, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coldmachine View Post

No, it was based on an equipment limitation that doesn't apply to digital machines.

Fair enough but it still was based upon a broad base of people's sensitivity to that limitation because they could have just made the screens smaller to increase brightness. My point still stands that it should be done as a scientific study again using today's equipment and not just rely on the opinions of a few experts with aging eyes. At this point it would be based upon peoples' temperament for gray blacks (how black does black have to be?), peak brightness, and tolerance for rapid changes from overall dark scenes to overall bright scenes since we would no longer have the #1 issue that is flicker.
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post #132 of 1602 Old 08-08-2009, 04:43 PM
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Once the 950 comes out do you guys think the RS20 will drop in price? I have the RS2 right now but I would like to upgrade to the RS20.

My First Home Theater

300 Blu-Rays, 150 DVD's loaded in my Movie Server!

Thanks AVS for making me addicted to this hobby!
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post #133 of 1602 Old 08-08-2009, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrisx510 View Post

Once the 950 comes out do you guys think the RS20 will drop in price? I have the RS2 right now but I would like to upgrade to the RS20.

It might....all depends on stock/release time.
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post #134 of 1602 Old 08-08-2009, 06:34 PM
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I hope JVC screws up the FI on these new units and takes a few years to perfect. (as I just bought the RS10 5 months ago and do not want to be forced to upgrade so quickly )

Location: Beaverton, Oregon
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post #135 of 1602 Old 08-08-2009, 07:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCaboNow View Post

I hope JVC screws up the FI on these new units and takes a few years to perfect. (as I just bought the RS10 5 months ago and do not want to be forced to upgrade so quickly )

Singing in a pleasant tone " You are not alone........I am there with you......"

Haha, Im in the same boat.

Click the link to see pics of my home theater

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post #136 of 1602 Old 08-08-2009, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cine4Home View Post

...And afterall, just look at the inside-pictures we took of the HD350, this chassis is built like a tank. To be honest, we have seldom seen a better construction than the current JVC chassis and the actual prices are really fair for what you get. Hardly any other manufacturer matches that ratio of built quality / price. So, there is not much to improve with the current chassis.

Soon, we will offer a first coverage...

Regards,
Ekkehart

Agree. Although I would prefer a centered lens and connections on the back, I am overall happy with the casing and its the least thing I'd like to see changed. I have a feeling that the extra brightness, contrast and quiet operation has a lot to do with this design which also makes me happy to see them continue it.
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post #137 of 1602 Old 08-08-2009, 09:06 PM
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Sony has already shown that 450:1 or thereabouts ANSI contrast with LCOS is possible. It wouldn't surprise me if JVC is able to hit 500:1 or so if they decided to go after ANSI contrast in this go around.

The RS20 is already a killer machine for the price and if they bump the on/off and lumens up a bit and double the ANSI contrast, I think the results will be noticeable.

I agree with some of the other sentiments about FI. If the implementation is subtle, it could be a nice addition. But if they decide to go after the really fluid 60hz video soap opera look, I don't think that I'll like it, unless maybe to watch sports or something.
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post #138 of 1602 Old 08-08-2009, 10:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coldmachine View Post

I'm not saying any such thing, and to suggest I am is a gross misrepresentation of my post.

Easy Cowboy,
"Gross misrepresentation"?
I asked a question based on your quote of "the new de facto standard" of 20 to 30fl.
I also said that from what I have read movie theatres are supposed to calibrated to 16fl (with no film in the gate) according to SMPTE. You replied that people only quote that number because they have not looked deeply enough and that it's based on equipment limitations, right?
If you say that SMPTE only based the 16fl number on equipment limitations then how else is a person supposed to read your comments other than that everything pre-digital has been sub standard?
I'm sorry if you don't like your statement's being questioned but there is no need to become so defensive. I am just trying to understand the reasons for people all of a sudden wanting to create a new standard when most people never thought the old one was broke including as far as I know SMPTE (at least for "film" projection).
And before I and only I am accused of taking this thread off topic I would like to say that I believe my comment's are very much on topic as this thread is about a projector that cannot achieve 20 to 30 fl on a screen size that most people would want to pair this unit with.
I am just trying to undertand why a person would need (not want, that is a seperate issue) a brighter projector than the new JVC 950 or any other projector of similar specs for an average screen size.
Let's all play nice, it's a big enough sand box for everyone to play in!

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post #139 of 1602 Old 08-09-2009, 12:03 AM
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(Sorry, this post was based on a previous post by "coldmachine" where Mr Machine said that I was "Cretinous" that now seems to have been removed. FYI.)

"Cretinous?"
Wow, what a pretentious ass you are sir!
Try reading it all again Very Slowly, I don't believe anyone who can read or understand English would find anything I have said "Cretinous" or even unreasonable based on what you have said so far in this thread.
If I am wrong then please feel free to explain why you belive I am wrong or how I have misconstrued your comment's.
I don't take kindly to insults, especialy from a person who will not back up or even defend his comments in a reasonable or adult fashion (just dismiss a person with name calling).
I thought the idea of these forums was reasonable debate and the sharing of knowledge, not a forum for self appointed experts who "get out of their prams" if they dont like what someone else has to say or questions their self righteous authority on a given subject.
I do not feel there is any more to add to this matter and I am sure my question will be answered by a more reasonable member of this forum, not a person who over the years I have witnessed on this forum become engaged in many unpleasent debates with other members (and most times have his arse handed to him on a plate, but amazingly still come back for more) under the dillusion that he has to be right!
Have a pleasant day,
Martin.
P.S. I will happily delete or retract this post if Mr Machine would like to be more reasonable and enter into the spirit of debate as was intended by myself from the begining!

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post #140 of 1602 Old 08-09-2009, 12:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martinfarinha View Post

"Gross misrepresentation"?

coldmachine posts:
X > Y

martinfarinha claims that coldmachine stated:
Y = incorrect

To me that qualifies as a gross misrepresentation of coldmachines post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by martinfarinha View Post

And before I and only I am accused of taking this thread off topic I would like to say that I believe my comment's are very much on topic as this thread is about a projector that cannot achieve 20 to 30 fl on a screen size that most people would want to pair this unit with.

Thread topic: new JVC models HD950/550

Discussion about "Is the added brightness in the new JVC models useful?":
Borderline On-Topic

Fight over "What is the general screen brightness we aim for with any projector?":
Off-Topic, separate 18 pages long (!!) thread already exists
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post #141 of 1602 Old 08-09-2009, 12:37 AM
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Does anyone know if the 950 is THX certified like the 750/RS20?
I see it is now ISF certified but I was wondering if they had dropped one in favor of the other or if they are going all out in licence fee's on this model to prove their point that it can jump through any hoop you wish to throw at it?
Specs do look fantastic at this price point, it's a great time to be a movie/home theatre fan isnt it?

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post #142 of 1602 Old 08-09-2009, 01:00 AM
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Dear Madshi,
Give me a break, I'm done on that topic as stated. If I missrepresented anyone then prove it in a reasonable way. Until that time get off my case, who are you his lawyer? I'm trying to stay on topic. I asked a question based on something that was said by another poster on this thread.
I have nothing but respect for the people who take time to share their wealth of experience on here but sometimes it can begin to feel like a members only club when someone takes exception if they are asked a question they do not like. As I said in my previous post read it again slowly, I am not being malicious or trying to bait anyone at all in any way, shape or form.
I am a big fan of the new JVC projectors and would like to find out more and get other peoples input and views on this new model just like everyone else on here. obviously one of the main questions regarding any projector is 'is it up to the task'? If there is someone on here saying that in terms of brightness it will never achieve the new standard of light output then any reasonable person would ask the question 'what are you basing that on?', that is all I have done.

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post #143 of 1602 Old 08-09-2009, 01:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martinfarinha View Post

If there is someone on here saying that in terms of brightness it will never achieve the new standard of light output then any reasonable person would ask the question 'what are you basing that on?', that is all I have done.

No one is saying that at all. There is no standard of light output. That's very a very different thing to on screen brightness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by martinfarinha View Post

As I said in my previous post read it again slowly, I am not being malicious or trying to bait anyone at all in any way, shape or form.

If that were the case, why post the following

Quote:
Originally Posted by martinfarinha View Post

Ouch Chuck, I was tiptoeing around gently but you went straight for the b#!ls!

The quote above illustrates that you were not simply seeking information or clarification. Its also clear that neither of you really understand what was being said,

I think its time you moved on and let the thread get back on topic.

Open another thread for any OT questions you may have.

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post #144 of 1602 Old 08-09-2009, 02:01 AM
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Give it up, You know you were out of line. That's why you deleted the post calling me "cretinous".
My response to chucks post only shows that I was trying to get an answer by being polite and not just stating that I thought you were outright wrong.
(I am not saying there was anything wrong with Chucks post, the gentleman is just more outspoken than I am!)
Please do not try to be condescending to me again as I am nobody's fool and will not tollerate being spoken down to by someone as socialy inadequate and rude as yourself.
If I continue to be maligned I will keep defending myself which I feel would not be fair to the thread or the original poster.
Grow up!
Actually before this goes any further would an impartial moderator please read through the last coulple of pages and see if they think I have said anything wrong, false or unwarrented!
Thank You.

Martin Farinha
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post #145 of 1602 Old 08-09-2009, 02:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martinfarinha View Post

Does anyone know if the 950 is THX certified like the 750/RS20?
I see it is now ISF certified but I was wondering if they had dropped one in favor of the other or if they are going all out in licence fee's on this model to prove their point that it can jump through any hoop you wish to throw at it?
Specs do look fantastic at this price point, it's a great time to be a movie/home theatre fan isnt it?


Hi,

in accordance with Cinemotion information, the 950 is THX certified too. You're right about the ISF Certification, it seems too me it's new (compare to the 750), but I don't know what is it exactly : "Night and Day" mode or a "hide" setting for professionnal ?
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post #146 of 1602 Old 08-09-2009, 02:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martinfarinha View Post

Give it up, You know you were out of line. That's why you deleted the post calling me "cretinous".

I was not out of line at any point. I simply provided you with an answer, which you subsequently, and continually, distorted in such a cretinous manner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by martinfarinha View Post

Please do not try to be condescending to me again as I am nobody's fool

If you perceive condescension when none is present, or intended, it would seem that you are actually everyone's fool. Remember, it was you who asked for clarification and chose to grossly misrepresent it when it was given.

As was said earlier, its time for you to move on, get back on topic, or start another thread.

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post #147 of 1602 Old 08-09-2009, 02:57 AM
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Thanks Thebes,
It does seem that JVC are on a mission to show what can be achieved at a reasonably low price point. This can only be good for the consumer as it will keep the other manufacturers on their toe's. Makes a change for the consumer to make out like bandit's. To think just a few years ago the price you would have to pay to achieve the quality being offered now at a fraction of the price is just staggering.

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post #148 of 1602 Old 08-09-2009, 03:17 AM
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Coldmachine,
You obviously have trouble understanding and using the English language, I asked for a moderator to look at it and decide if I have been at all out of line.
You however decide to respond with yet another condescending post containing more insults.
And as for telling me to move on, Maybe you should move on as all you seem to do is troll around looking for products that you feel are inferior and then lecture people as to why they are inferior.
Crawl back in your hole little boy, you are just making yourself look an even bigger bully!
If you had not noticed I am trying to ask questions related to the thread and be a part this topic as I am genuinely interested in this projector, are you?
Or are you just here to pontificate as usual?

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post #149 of 1602 Old 08-09-2009, 03:37 AM
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Excuse me? Where did I show any negativity towards JVC's product?
You Sir are being ridiculous!, I'm sure this is just your tactic to bait a person into becoming very offensive and having them thrown off of the forum.
You are just a forum bully, plain and simple.

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post #150 of 1602 Old 08-09-2009, 03:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martinfarinha View Post

Excuse me? Where did I show any negativity towards JVC's product?

You didn't, I confused you with someone else in this thread. I withdraw that statement, and apologize for making it, it was a genuine mistake.

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