Jvc dla-hd990/950/550 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 1602 Old 08-05-2009, 01:52 PM - Thread Starter
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post #2 of 1602 Old 08-05-2009, 01:55 PM
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If they can improve ansi somewhat, improve motion handling, and deliver a working CMS from the start.....on top of the announced improved brightness black level......WOW!
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post #3 of 1602 Old 08-05-2009, 05:05 PM
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Here we go again! This should be very interesting to see what we here from JVC in the next coming months. I am already interested in what we wil here about at CEDIA.
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post #4 of 1602 Old 08-05-2009, 07:31 PM
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post #5 of 1602 Old 08-05-2009, 08:23 PM
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Jason @ AVS is supposed to get sample units in before CEDIA. Very interesting news indeed!
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post #6 of 1602 Old 08-05-2009, 09:07 PM
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Can't wait to hear more about these projectors..


Xb1032, Do you know when Jason will be getting them in?

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post #7 of 1602 Old 08-05-2009, 09:49 PM
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Nice. I was planning on getting a RS20 when come back to US. I know it's speculation at this point, but any thoughts on when it will be available?

 

 

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post #8 of 1602 Old 08-06-2009, 12:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabident View Post

Nice. I was planning on getting a RS20 when come back to US. I know it's speculation at this point, but any thoughts on when it will be available?


Hi,

in accordance with C4H news, september, not so far
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post #9 of 1602 Old 08-06-2009, 01:52 AM
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Hi,

everybody planning to buy or already owning an RS20/HD750 can relax. Apparently there won't be that much difference between an HD750 and HD950 besides the introduction of a frame interpolation mechanism (100Hz or the like).
If I am not wrong the lumens specs will be only slightly higher from now 900 lumen to 1000 lumen (meaning the serial variation will be better).

Same thing with the HD350/HD550 btw. The HD550 will have FI but still no CMS (according to my source).

HIH

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post #10 of 1602 Old 08-06-2009, 02:46 AM
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Hi,

and there is another point : the MSRP in euro are 1 000 euros more than the former :

- HD350/RS10 : 3 990
- HD 550/RS ??? : 4 999

- HD750/RS20 : 5 990
- HD950/RS??? : 6 999 .

I think it will be the same thing in USD.
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post #11 of 1602 Old 08-06-2009, 02:52 AM
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post #12 of 1602 Old 08-06-2009, 03:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thebes View Post

Hi,

and there is another point : the MSRP in euro are 1 000 euros more than the former

You are comparing street prices with MSRPs. There is only 500 Euro difference in MSRPs.

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post #13 of 1602 Old 08-06-2009, 03:25 AM
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So, without VAT, the MSRP difference would be about $850. A little brighter, a 60% increase in on\\off, frame interpolation or whatever, higher refresh. For this difference converted to street, who wouldn`t if possible trade their 20 in for the price difference? But these improvements really wouldn`t yield significant improvements in perceived PQ.

Now just think what an upscale model might add to this package. A better lens that is interchangeable meaning shorter zoom ranges and better processing for example. Even brighter.

BTW. I wonder how the on\\off increase was achieved? My guess is improvements in the polarizers.

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post #14 of 1602 Old 08-06-2009, 03:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clehner View Post

You are comparing street prices with MSRPs. There is only 500 Euro difference in MSRPs.


Hi,

in France, real street price are very lower than these amounts. Actually we could find (without negociation) these projectors at these prices :

http://www.elecson.com/hifi/index.ph...fb26b43adefccf

http://www.hifissimo.com/videoprojecteur.html

http://www.dynamichomecinema.fr/arti...385f8ae4986d32

http://www.audioprojection.com/audio...rojecteur.html
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post #15 of 1602 Old 08-06-2009, 03:40 AM
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4k/6k Euros was the old MSRP when HD350/750 were introduced. Later JVC raised MSRP to 4.5/6.5k Euros to account for the weak Yen. So the HD550/950 MSRP is 0.5k higher than the current HD350/750 MSRP.
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post #16 of 1602 Old 08-06-2009, 03:40 AM
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Thebes, you just confirmed what I said. In France they tend to list street prices rather than MSRPs for JVC. Some non authorized JVC dealers in Germany do the same.

P.S.: You can always negotiate (also about the extras, like calibration, extra quality control for 0 dead pixels etc.)

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post #17 of 1602 Old 08-06-2009, 03:43 AM
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The 950 does sound like a substantial upgrade over the 750 to me. I don't even own the 750 but if I did I'd certainly be tempted to upgrade. Seems that they have addressed the major complaints with the 750. Like you've said before Mark it will be interesting to see how they step it up even farther with whatever the top model # is going to be. Sounds like 100K plus contrast ratio could be likely.
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post #18 of 1602 Old 08-06-2009, 03:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clehner View Post

[...]
P.S.: You can always negotiate!



yes, I know (and I know the "real" street price for an HD 750) but at this moment I don't want replace my HD1 and it's not the HD 950's data sheet which could be changed my idea. Maybe a demonstration, but it seems too me the differences are not so important compare to the former projector.
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post #19 of 1602 Old 08-06-2009, 03:52 AM
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Something tells me the higher end new model might not have a higher on\\off CR. I think there is a JVC market for higher ANSI lumens. Say 1300 to 1600. Bigger bulb yada. That would mean actually lower on\\off CR than the 950.

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post #20 of 1602 Old 08-06-2009, 03:57 AM
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I suppose that's certainly possible. At least with the JVC's you can expect to get close to their advertised lumens when calibrated. I can't imagine anyone needing more then 1000-1200 lumens. I only say that because it seems like the target demographic that buys the JVC's usually have a dedicated room for them. In that environment that kind of light output should be able to satisfy a healthy majority. Unless someone is trying to go for some extreme screen size.
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post #21 of 1602 Old 08-06-2009, 04:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gamelover360 View Post

If they can improve ansi somewhat, improve motion handling, and deliver a working CMS from the start.....on top of the announced improved brightness black level......WOW!

I may have to try one.

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post #22 of 1602 Old 08-06-2009, 04:10 AM
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I may have to try one.

But Joe they are coming out with new Sonys too. Are you sure you're not going to want to try that one instead?
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post #23 of 1602 Old 08-06-2009, 04:17 AM
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Frame Interpolation excites me not one bit but I am glad that it is being added so that people can stop complaining about the so-called motion handling issues. Now they will just complain about how FI stinks. Has anyone actually spent any time watching movies on a display with FI? I am not suggesting that JVC could not tinker with their panel refresh scheme to improve motion handling somewhat, but I am suggesting that what we see now with the RS series is not a flaw but a deliberate design decision.

More interesting is the 80k:1 CR, which if JVC's reliable past track record is predictive, will be a real measurment at usuable lumens. If the 950 is a little brighter, the 80k:1 CR implies that black level will in reality be just a little bit better as compared to an RS20 at 50k:1. Lumens and CR are not areas that I feel need improving when watching my RS20. At least not the kind of improvement that the 950 offers (I am looking for infinite CR!). I suspect that those things that really could use some improvement will be very difficult to achieve given the nature of D-ILA. Judging from the information that has been revealed to date, these models don't address any of these issues.

I don't know. I am little less excited about these units but am very interested in what the higher end model might bring to the table.

Affable Nitwit
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post #24 of 1602 Old 08-06-2009, 04:57 AM
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I may have to try one.

Looking forward to your review
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post #25 of 1602 Old 08-06-2009, 06:35 AM
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Looking forward to your review

What, no review yet! This thread is already a day old.

I'll stick with my RS20 for a while no matter what, but always interesting to see the next generation features.

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post #26 of 1602 Old 08-06-2009, 07:07 AM
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My prediction is that lamp based PJ's are near the end of their lifecycle. In 5 years there will be LED based machines that are giving the same performance as a $30 000 lamp based PJ of today.....but with a longer lifespan and no dimming or bulb replacement! Oh, and probably cost around $5 000.

Having said that, I feel that lamp based PJ's are going to be ahead of LED PJ's when it comes to performance/cost considerations for a few years. LED's are still going to take a couple years to work out the kinks and get more from the LED lightsource (better software, etc.).

I am looking for a Pj for my new HT at the end of this year, so it seems like a great time to be getting a lamp based Pj that you plan to keep for about 5 years. That is my plan.

As exciting and enticing as JVC's new top line model, I will still find it hard to drop $10 000 + on a lamp based PJ, when I feel that the new JVC 950 or the new $8 000 Sony PJ (VW90) will fit the bill nicely.

Maybe even the Panny 4000!


Exciting times to be a shopper.
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post #27 of 1602 Old 08-06-2009, 08:21 AM
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Frame Interpolation excites me not one bit but I am glad that it is being added so that people can stop complaining about the so-called motion handling issues. Now they will just complain about how FI stinks. Has anyone actually spent any time watching movies on a display with FI? I am not suggesting that JVC could not tinker with their panel refresh scheme to improve motion handling somewhat, but I am suggesting that what we see now with the RS series is not a flaw but a deliberate design decision...

Agreed. I don't know a lot about FI and the like, but from everything I've read on other projections, it sounds like a mixed bag at best, mostly with people complaining about the implementation and opting to turn such features off.

Here is my wish list for both major and minor improvements in not particular order:

- an improvement in the manufacturing process with alignment of panels to get more consistent convergence across units (i.e. no more "my convergence is great", "my convergence stinks"). The convergence of these projectors remains my top concern when purchasing a new one, and I won't purchase from anywhere without a liberal return policy for this reason).

- better convergence controls. 1 pixel movements across the entire screen is generally not very helpful. I agree that some solutions like Sony's .1 pixel increment is not great either because that causes scaling/processing. However it would be great if JVC could divide the screen into 4 or 16 zones and let you move 1 pixel independently in each zone!

- sharper lens. My RS20 is plenty sharp, but I'd like a bit more.

- it goes without saying, higher CR (better blacks and brighter images always welcome!)

- improve the ANSI CR significantly. I'd like to at least see it double into the 500-600:1 range. Doubt we'll see this happen anytime soon.

- better focus controls. This won't happen, but I actually prefer manual focus where I can sway the controls back and forth and hit that exact sweet spot. I never felt like I could quite reach that.

- better gamma adjustment controls. Anyone who's spent time working with these controls knows how fickle they can be and better be prepared to have hours on hand to dial this in right on your target numbers.

- eliminate the red tinge artifact (such as can be seen in referee zebra stripes during movement or scrolling tickets). This issue has been present since the RS1 and is tops on my list for what I want to see "fixed".

- add a 1% overscan adjustment. 2.5% is too much just to eliminate a few lines of garbage from a cable signal, but 1% would be perfect (and better than zooming out to hide it).

- fix what Greg refers to in general (not just with the RS20) as "image pumping" (temporary blurring/lose of focus in fine detail when an image moves, only to have it snag back into place when the movement stops).

What other types of improvements and features would you guys like to see?
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post #28 of 1602 Old 08-06-2009, 08:42 AM
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Hi Ric. I would like a better lens as well but I think re sharpness there may be an inherent technological limitation of the panels compared to a DLP. See Mark Peterson`s blog. Of course a better lens could doa lot more than just sharpness.

Now there are mechanical panel adjustments available say on a barco which costs in the 100K range. But I think it unlikely to see adjustments for mechanical panel alignment on a projector anywhere in the price ranges we are looking at here. In an upscale JVC model they certainly could select light engine lens combos that could gurantee good convergence but using lens shift at all might throw that off due to CA as well as interchangeable lens making a lens image match not really dooable.

As far as rolling the dice, it all depends on what JVC specs misconvergence as. What`s a dealer to do with a within spec but not perfect machine? Dump it on the next purchaser? But for the best appearing convergence one must resign themselves to mounting the projector at screen center. Even with very very expensive lenses, once one uses lens shift to any great extent convergence appearance (really due to CA) will deteriorate. There really is no solution here other than mechanical or Sony type tricks.

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post #29 of 1602 Old 08-06-2009, 08:43 AM
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it would be great if JVC could divide the screen into 4 or 16 zones and let you move 1 pixel independently in each zone!

That would look awful in motion. During camera pans you'd be able to "see" the zones.
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post #30 of 1602 Old 08-06-2009, 09:21 AM
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It does sound like the 950 is a very modest upgrade to the RS20, useful but marginal. This is one upgrade round I will hold off on. (I also skipped the RS2--hows that for willpower!).

The RS20 will keep me content until the LEDs (presumably, rather than lasers) replace the lamp, and become 'stable'; i.e., at least the 2nd gen of these products. I really don't see much improvement over the RS20 until then.
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