Mitsubishi HC6800 LCD HD Projector (30,000:1 on/off) - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP > Mitsubishi HC6800 LCD HD Projector (30,000:1 on/off)
cpc's Avatar cpc 08:44 AM 12-30-2009
Is there anybody in the Greater Toronto, or Durham area (southern Ontario) who has the HC6800 they could show off? I can offer beer in return

fledwinter's Avatar fledwinter 12:01 PM 12-30-2009
Can the Mits can be used in a CIW or CIA scenario with a 2:05 screen? I am doubtful but I am just starting to grasp the concepts scaling/shrinking. Claus said he can't get a bigger 2:35 screen into his home but what if he could get a bigger 1:78 screen or a 2:05. Can the Mits scaler provide a full width 2:35 picture and a full height HDTV picture?

Thanks,
CT_Wiebe's Avatar CT_Wiebe 12:03 PM 12-30-2009
Studio2000 -- I'm glad to hear that you are a "happy camper". Just out of curiosity, which lamp mode are you using for your very large screen? I'm assuming that you are using the high-lamp mode, but I would like confirmation.

Have you tried the "Shutter" function (Video Blanking)? See MENU => SIGNAL => USER => "OK" => SHUTTER(U) & SHUTTER(L) -- for the top and bottom borders (a setting of ~22 should do it). That will blank (darken) the "overspill". Re-read my entire list of adjustments for the 2.35:1, CinemaScope, setup.

You can use the SHUTTER(LS) & SHUTTER(RS) for the side borders on 16:9 movies (~53 from what I found), but you have to reset those back to "0" for 2.35:1 movies.
Studio2000's Avatar Studio2000 12:13 PM 12-30-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by CT_Wiebe View Post

Studio2000 -- I'm glad to hear that you are a "happy camper". Just out of curiosity, which lamp mode are you using for your very large screen? I'm assuming that you are using the high-lamp mode, but I would like confirmation.

Have you tried the "Shutter" function (Video Blanking)? See MENU => SIGNAL => USER => "OK" => SHUTTER(U) & SHUTTER(L) -- for the top and bottom borders (a setting of ~22 should do it). That will blank (darken) the "overspill". Re-read my entire list of adjustments for the 2.35:1, CinemaScope, setup.

You can use the SHUTTER(LS) & SHUTTER(RS) for the side borders on 16:9 movies (~53 from what I found), but you have to reset those back to "0" for 2.35:1 movies.

Hi Claus,

I am currently running the PJ in low lamp mode at 134" and I am plenty satisfied with the brightness of the image. Also keep in mind that its a brand new unit, but my room is very dark and I find low lamp mode is easier on my eyes and looks fantastic. Its also dead silent.

I have shutter function activated, however I still see dark gray bars with the projector calibrated. However the image itself is as black as can be, just when credits come up or the bars for 2:35 shows, even with blanking on approx 22 top and bottom.

I am just amazed that one can achieve such an image in ones home. I am going to attempt to take a pic tonight..

Thanks
CT_Wiebe's Avatar CT_Wiebe 12:20 PM 12-30-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by fledwinter View Post

Can the Mits can be used in a CIW or CIA scenario with a 2:05 screen? I am doubtful but I am just starting to grasp the concepts scaling/shrinking. Claus said he can't get a bigger 2:35 screen into his home but what if he could get a bigger 1:78 screen or a 2:05.

Thanks,

No, it only has the 2.35:1 CIH option.
Quote:


Can the Mits scaler provide a full width 2:35 picture and a full height HDTV picture?

That doesn't require any scaling. When setting the screen option to CinemaScope(2.35:1), a widescreen movie is displayed in the full width (all of the horizontal pixels) on the screen without changing anything. With the CinemaScope screen setting, only the 16:9 images gets re-scaled to fit in the same image height (by changing the "Aspect" to "16:9").

As a mater of fact, any 1080p PJ can do that. Normally, a 2.35:1 movie will display the full width of the screen (if it's mastered on the DVD or BD disc correctly) without doing anything. Then 16:9 HDTV (or movie) will fill the entire 16:9 screen. Basically that's the CIW mode (in which you get black bars on the top & bottom of the 2.35:1 image). Filling a 16:9 screen with a 2.35:1 image requires vertical stretching (which the HC6800 can do) but the image will be distorted (vertically stretched and/or cropped).

You can't do what you suggest, and maintain an undistorted picture (without an external Anamorphic lens of some type). In my case, I live with the "black bars", just like everyone else who doesn't want distorted images.
CT_Wiebe's Avatar CT_Wiebe 12:24 PM 12-30-2009
Studio2000 -- Thanks for the info. I'm surprised that the "overspill" is that light, under those conditions. It sounds like you need more velvet, light absorbing, material on the top & bottom of your screen.
Studio2000's Avatar Studio2000 12:28 PM 12-30-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by CT_Wiebe View Post

Studio2000 -- Thanks for the info. I'm surprised that the "overspill" is that light, under those conditions. It sounds like you need more velvet, light absorbing, material on the top & bottom of your screen.

Claus,

Yes - I only need approx 3.5 inches of black velvet, which I still have full lengths of the screen. Because my ceiling is angled the light at top dissapates and is not viewable. All I need to do is place some velvet on bottom.

Once again the image itself is blacker, for example black clothing or pupil of eye etc. Very good blacks in my opinion. Just need to mask off the overspill.

Thanks
NYMN's Avatar NYMN 05:36 PM 12-31-2009
Thought I'd post this here as well:

Just read the Cine4home review of the HC6800, and I have to say that I'm slightly stunned/disappointed that they are using the D7 ORGANIC LCD panel. That's clearly a step back in my opinion. As I understand, the organic D7's actually do allow more light than the inorganic ones - hence the high brightness of the HC6800 and the Epson 8100. And that's fine, but to pay the same price as a Panny AE4000 or the 8500UB for a pj that has panels that could degrade far sooner...... I dunno. Seems like the 6800 should be far far less expensive. More in the $1500-2000 range. What do you all think? I'd love to hear some feedback regarding this interesting finding.
CT_Wiebe's Avatar CT_Wiebe 02:21 AM 01-01-2010
NYMN -- That is very interesting, if true. For the HC6500, Mitsubishi specifically stated that they used the C2Fine panels (which are exclusively D7 Inorganic, according to Ekkehart). He also said that the HC6800 did not have CMS adjustments. Yet the only controls it's missing is the RGBCMY Hue, Saturation, & Brightness control set (as in the Epson 8500UB).

That statement (the C2Fine, or D7 Inorganic panels) for the HC6800 & HC7000 is not made (it just says "the latest panel design"). The other interesting thing is that the product descriptions for the HC6800 and the HC7000 are virtually identical.

What I don't understand is all the bashing of the HC6800 (& HC7000) from members that don't own them. All reports from owners are that their PJs are very positive.

BTW, Happy New Year!
Dave_1's Avatar Dave_1 09:01 AM 01-01-2010
I have not purchased this machine as of yet, but one of the main reasons that it was being considered was because it was supposed to have inorganic panels. Is it possible to have somebody from MIt confirm what the type of panel this pj has so it can be settled for the people that are considering this PJ.
Studio2000's Avatar Studio2000 10:10 AM 01-01-2010
NYMN



I think you might have been misinformed on that review.

To clarify the D7panels - particularly the 0.74 are inorganic panels. Thus the Mitsubishi HC6800 has inorganic panels.

And let say if the Mitsubishi did not have inorganic panels. I think that we are so spoilt these days, that we make decisions on technical terminology/specs alone for example Contrast ratio 30:000 vs 100:000/Inorganic/Organic and we believe these based on one review. Then we keep these PJ's maybe for 3 years and want a new one anyway

Since you like specs though, Let me put some peace to the anxiety for those that wonder if these are inorganic or organic panels:

Refer to the spec sheet

http://www.mitsubishi-presentations....eet_HC6800.pdf


Dave 1 - No worries - Let me give you peace of mind.

Logically since the HC7000 carries the same inorganic panel as Hc6800, you can read on the Hc7000 features as follows:

"Then we added an extra polarization filter to the advanced inorganic 3LCD panels for more precise light focusing. The result is an LCD projector with longer life and an astonishing 72,000:1 contrast. With virtually no fading due to loss of light intensity the projector can reproduce jet black on screen."

Source:

http://www.mitsubishi-presentations....rs/HC7000.html

I have seen the Epson, Pana PTAE4000, Sony and the more expensive JVC, SIM, Marantz etc. and for my own reasons chose the Mitsubishi. They are all good PJ's.

Get a projector and be happy with it. You will drive yourself crazy if you dont
todd03blown's Avatar todd03blown 10:48 AM 01-01-2010
I think this projector is AMAZING as its my first projector and I am running it on a 125" diag screen in a 20x18x8 room that I painted with the scorpion paint from another forum. The color and clairity is stunning and its soooooooooo quiet!!
NYMN's Avatar NYMN 12:52 PM 01-01-2010
I thought epson makes both organic AND inorganic D7 panels.

http://global.epson.com/newsroom/2008/news_20080909.htm
NYMN's Avatar NYMN 12:54 PM 01-01-2010
Isn't it possible that this is why there's no mention of which panels are used in the HC6800 Brochure?
btw - I certainly don't mean in any way to be knocking the HC6800 as I've yet to see one, AND am still considering it, but I find it odd that in their previous models I believe Mits stated which panels were used and now with the 6800 they don't.
Studio2000's Avatar Studio2000 05:07 PM 01-01-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYMN View Post

Isn't it possible that this is why there's no mention of which panels are used in the HC6800 Brochure?
btw - I certainly don't mean in any way to be knocking the HC6800 as I've yet to see one, AND am still considering it, but I find it odd that in their previous models I believe Mits stated which panels were used and now with the 6800 they don't.

NYMN

Absolutely the possibility is there and based on my understanding might be incorrect with regards to the panels. The current specs concise with HC7000 specs tells me these are inorganic.

However the possibility is there that its not. And you are correct. If there is no mentioned Marketing about inorganic then...... this PJ leans more towards organic panels, so I stand corrected if its not. You might have hit it on the nail. Also I am now leaning toward organic because the new LCD panels support 120Hz and also 12 bit.

However, who really cares. There are users with organic panels that have used their PJ without panel degradation for many years. If youre interested in frame interpolation then the HC6800 will not be right for you as it does not have it (I think only latest inorganic panels do).

The fact that it has inorganic vs organic is not a justification solely for price, as the projector has other quality lens parts that exceed other projectors.
CT_Wiebe's Avatar CT_Wiebe 05:44 AM 01-02-2010
Studio2000 -- A slight correction. FI (frame Interpolation) has nothing to do with the type of panel. It is only a function of the signal processing electronics within the PJ.

I tend to agree that the mention of organic/inorganic panels on the HC6800 is likely an oversight on the part of the Mitsubishi marketing types (who wrote the descriptions). They are not (usually) technically knowledgeable, at least on the fine points. They are probably not aware that D7 panels come in both organic and inorganic versions. I was not either, until Ekkehart pointed that out (in a response to one of my posts).

Since the HC6800 is an upgrade to the HC6500 (which specifically has C2Fine panels = D7 & inorganic only), I find it inconceivable that the HC6800 would not be using the exact same panels. Having worked with Mitsubishi engineering (in their spacecraft division), that is something that they just would not do (as a matter of company pride and policy -- that would be a severe "loss of face" for the engineers).
mariokrt64's Avatar mariokrt64 07:38 AM 01-02-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by CT_Wiebe View Post

Studio2000 -- A slight correction. FI (frame Interpolation) has nothing to do with the type of panel. It is only a function of the signal processing electronics within the PJ.

I tend to agree that the mention of organic/inorganic panels on the HC6800 is likely an oversight on the part of the Mitsubishi marketing types (who wrote the descriptions). They are not (usually) technically knowledgeable, at least on the fine points. They are probably not aware that D7 panels come in both organic and inorganic versions. I was not either, until Ekkehart pointed that out (in a response to one of my posts).

Since the HC6800 is an upgrade to the HC6500 (which specifically has C2Fine panels = D7 & inorganic only), I find it inconceivable that the HC6800 would not be using the exact same panels. Having worked with Mitsubishi engineering (in their spacecraft division), that is something that they just would not do (as a matter of company pride and policy -- that would be a severe "loss of face" for the engineers).

Is this something worth confirming with Mitsu???Does anyone has contacts that may ask this directly to Mitsu? May someone from this forum or AVS as a seller of this product (Jason?) be able to do this? This have brought some debate in the forum so maybe it deserves some closure.
NYMN's Avatar NYMN 07:42 AM 01-02-2010
It is unfortunate that Mits seems to have chosen to use D7 organic panels in their 'upgrade' machine. Very very odd. I re-read the cine4home review and it's pretty clear as to which panels are used - it's stated more that once. Also mentioned is the decision by Mits to increase the lumen output in this model and perhaps that's why they went with the organic panels as it's supposed to allow more light through, along with the slightly more powerful bulb. The native contrast seems to be measured quite low - around 1000 - 1500:1 NOT very remarkable. But with the excellent iris system, it all comes out to a very beautiful picture. Cine4home gave pretty top marks for the HC6800 overall - higher that the 6500/7500UB models from last year actually. So, that's why it's still on the list. I'm looking at buying on monday.........man ,what to do...........
cpc's Avatar cpc 08:50 AM 01-02-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYMN View Post

It is unfortunate that Mits seems to have chosen to use D7 organic panels in their 'upgrade' machine. Very very odd. I re-read the cine4home review and it's pretty clear as to which panels are used - it's stated more that once. Also mentioned is the decision by Mits to increase the lumen output in this model and perhaps that's why they went with the organic panels as it's supposed to allow more light through, along with the slightly more powerful bulb. The native contrast seems to be measured quite low - around 1000 - 1500:1 NOT very remarkable. But with the excellent iris system, it all comes out to a very beautiful picture. Cine4home gave pretty top marks for the HC6800 overall - higher that the 6500/7500UB models from last year actually. So, that's why it's still on the list. I'm looking at buying on monday.........man ,what to do...........

I feel your confusion. I wouldn't base my decision on organic vs inorganic. I'm basing my decision on price affordability, brightness and contrast blacks. I'll discuss this in the other thread where I'm comparing.
NYMN's Avatar NYMN 08:55 AM 01-02-2010
Same here, organic vs. inorganic - won't be an overly important criteria for me. Besides, I have to believe that the panels they make today are better and have a longer life span than before - regardless of whether they are organic or inorganic.
mariokrt64's Avatar mariokrt64 12:15 PM 01-03-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYMN View Post

It is unfortunate that Mits seems to have chosen to use D7 organic panels in their 'upgrade' machine. Very very odd. I re-read the cine4home review and it's pretty clear as to which panels are used - it's stated more that once. Also mentioned is the decision by Mits to increase the lumen output in this model and perhaps that's why they went with the organic panels as it's supposed to allow more light through, along with the slightly more powerful bulb. The native contrast seems to be measured quite low - around 1000 - 1500:1 NOT very remarkable. But with the excellent iris system, it all comes out to a very beautiful picture. Cine4home gave pretty top marks for the HC6800 overall - higher that the 6500/7500UB models from last year actually. So, that's why it's still on the list. I'm looking at buying on monday.........man ,what to do...........


Can you post a link to the review???
NYMN's Avatar NYMN 12:23 PM 01-03-2010
For sure - I've read it both in German and English (translated). Very clear on the panels used - D7 Organic.
http://translate.google.com/translat...ari%26rls%3Den
NYMN's Avatar NYMN 09:30 AM 01-05-2010
Well, I've decided that I'll be going with the 6800! Not going to think too much about the whole organic/inorganic thing - These new panels must be a heck of a lot better than the old organic panels regardless! AND, I'm looking forward to the sharpness and brightness - which is something that will allow me to go with a bigger screen. Although, I'm having a little trouble figuring out screen size - I'm going to be throwing from 18 feet 5 inches back - I'd love to go with a 2:35 screen. I have to base it on height because of my speaker and component set-up right under the screen. I've measured it all out and was hoping someone could help with this. Will I be able to do a 52"(height) x 122" (wide) 2:35 screen with the 6800 from that distance? I'm just going to be painting it with either Behr UPW or the Quietude (very light grey)
The other question I have is, what exactly is this shutter feature? or video blanking? Not sure what these do.
Thanks so much!
HDGreg's Avatar HDGreg 02:43 PM 01-05-2010
Congrats. Just enjoy it! 5mark figured out that Mitsubishi projectors hc5500,6500,6800 have a memory function that acts like the Panny 3000,4000 which will change the aspect ratios and keep them in memory.....It doesn't work for me. Claus posted these work arounds earlier in the thread. With a painted screen, it might not be that big of a deal, but then again it might be really cool to have these "presets". What Claus posted seems to be an easy step by step process.
todd03blown's Avatar todd03blown 06:42 PM 01-05-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYMN View Post

I've measured it all out and was hoping someone could help with this. Will I be able to do a 52"(height) x 122" (wide) 2:35 screen with the 6800 from that distance? I'm just going to be painting it with either Behr UPW or the Quietude (very light grey)
The other question I have is, what exactly is this shutter feature? or video blanking? Not sure what these do.
Thanks so much!

Here is the calculator that I used for my purposes.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/Mits...ulator-pro.htm
NYMN's Avatar NYMN 09:55 PM 01-05-2010
Thanks. That's the calculator I used though, and it tells me that it wouldn't be bright enough. I think what I don't get is that the 6800 is supposed to be quite bright - brighter than quite a few other pj's, especially in cinema mode - Cine4home measured 600 lumens in LOW lamp mode - I would think that this would be more than enough for my set-up. Am I missing something in the PJCentral calculator? Or is that there is a certain amount of brightness I'm loosing because of going 2:35?
CT_Wiebe's Avatar CT_Wiebe 11:59 PM 01-05-2010
NYMN -- There is no difference in picture brightness in going to a 2.35:1 (CinemaScope) image, since you are not changing anything -- the picture is exactly the same size as it would be on a 16:9 screen of the same width. Therefore, the brightness information shown in the PJC calculator (when set to 2.35:1) will not change.

Just for reference, my summary of 5mark's discovery is here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=282. There is one addition, you can quickly go from 2.35:1 to 16:9 by using the "Aspect" button on the remote, in "Auto" you have a 2.35:1 image and in "16:9" you have a 16:9 image.

The "Shutter" mode creates "Video Blanking" by setting the video signal to = Digital 0, in the shuttered area. Normal video signals vary from Digital 16 (black) to Digital 235 (white). Therefore, the shuttered area is blacker than it would be otherwise (and there will be no video signal in that area -- that's what is meant by "video blanking"). You can easily see this effect if you move the shutters into the video program area -- it will be "blanked" out.

PS (edit) -- The concept of "Video Blanking" appears to be a foreign concept to those of you who haven't grown up with analog video as displayed on CRT TV sets, as some of us "older" members have. On an analog CRT TV, video blanking is a necessary part of the analog video signal processing.
dukeav's Avatar dukeav 03:15 AM 01-07-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by CT_Wiebe View Post

NYMN
The "Shutter" mode creates "Video Blanking" by setting the video signal to = Digital 0, in the shuttered area. Normal video signals vary from Digital 16 (black) to Digital 235 (white). Therefore, the shuttered area is blacker than it would be otherwise (and there will be no video signal in that area -- that's what is meant by "video blanking"). You can easily see this effect if you move the shutters into the video program area -- it will be "blanked" out.

PS (edit) -- The concept of "Video Blanking" appears to be a foreign concept to those of you who haven't grown up with analog video as displayed on CRT TV sets, as some of us "older" members have. On an analog CRT TV, video blanking is a necessary part of the analog video signal processing.

Hi,

Are the shutter settings saved with the 3 memory options?
Would be pain to re-adjust again and again.

regards
NYMN's Avatar NYMN 05:11 PM 01-07-2010
I'm sure I'm missing something in trying to figure out how to go with a 2:35 screen. I think I may not fully understand this CIH set-up. According to the PJCentral claculator, the smallest 2:35 image I can get from 18' 5" is 41" in height. But if I change the aspect to 16:9 it tells me the smallest image would be 55" in height. Does this mean when you switch aspect ratio on the HC6800 from 2:35 to 16:9, the image would spill above and below the screen? Or does the Mits scale the 16:9 image to properly fit the 41" in height?
I hope I'm making sense here. I've not had any experience with cinema scope before.
Thanks!
cpc's Avatar cpc 06:40 PM 01-07-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYMN View Post

I'm sure I'm missing something in trying to figure out how to go with a 2:35 screen. I think I may not fully understand this CIH set-up. According to the PJCentral claculator, the smallest 2:35 image I can get from 18' 5" is 41" in height. But if I change the aspect to 16:9 it tells me the smallest image would be 55" in height. Does this mean when you switch aspect ratio on the HC6800 from 2:35 to 16:9, the image would spill above and below the screen? Or does the Mits scale the 16:9 image to properly fit the 41" in height?
I hope I'm making sense here. I've not had any experience with cinema scope before.
Thanks!

I'm not sure how it works without an external lens. There is a special function with this pj and the others (5500, 6500 and 7000) that helps with 2.35:1. Perhaps somebody else can jump in and explain.
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