Mitsubishi HC6800 LCD HD Projector (30,000:1 on/off) - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 1121 Old 10-21-2009, 09:25 AM
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My pleasure! Blanking is one of those features from the CRT days where once you use it it becomes hard to buy another unit down the road without it...

It's strange but the place I bought my unit (BB - Magnolia) has not dropped their price yet. I'm almost hoping they will; maybe like Amazon they have some kind of price-protection guarantee
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post #182 of 1121 Old 10-21-2009, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by briandx View Post

Even if it turns out that the 4000 is as sharp as the 6800 (I doubt it), the extra brightness, quiet fan, and other ergonomics still make the 6800 a better match for my HT.

Just a follow up on this comment: I had two Panasonic projectors prior to this Mitsubishi and never had a problem with the smoothscreen. With 480p and even 720p on a large screen, it came in handy not seeing pixels. However, this new Mitsubishi has opened my eyes to a level sharpness that I never knew existed. I have had it for three weeks and still get a wow from that. In my opinion, now that we have moved to 1080p, Panasonic should eliminate smoothscreen in any projectors other than the 720p model. It really is an eye opening experience.

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post #183 of 1121 Old 10-21-2009, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by briandx View Post

My pleasure! Blanking is one of those features from the CRT days where once you use it it becomes hard to buy another unit down the road without it...

It's strange but the place I bought my unit (BB - Magnolia) has not dropped their price yet. I'm almost hoping they will; maybe like Amazon they have some kind of price-protection guarantee

Mine (Magnolia) has a new price in their system. Don't let them look it up online like they usually do (it still has the old price). Make them ring it up, it should come up less.

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post #184 of 1121 Old 10-21-2009, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by larrimore View Post

Put a black background up with white text (movie credits work great) and freeze them. Then cycle through the different iris settings. On 5 the black is as black as I have ever seen- including my neighbor's CRT (from memory- I am sure that side by side they would be different). On 3, it is good, but you can definitely tell the difference.

I did find a way to see the iris work, but man it is fast on this one:

Play the BD of Blade Runner and watch the titles at the beginning. A white title comes up on a black background followed by total black, then the next title comes up, etc. When the title goes away, you can see the screen go noticeably darker while the black-only background is up. On mine, it is so fast that it looks almost instantaneous, but you can really see what the iris does...

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post #185 of 1121 Old 10-21-2009, 10:26 AM
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My experience with the newer LCD projectors is that at 720p, pixels can be visible at reasonable viewing distances, totally destroying IMHO the overall picture quality. At 720p, the Panasonic smooth screen is not only useful but critical.

However, at 1080p resolution I think this dynamic has changed. To give you a current example; my screen is 92" diagonal and my seats are 15 feet from the screen. If I start right at the screen and start to move back, by the time I reach 8-10 feet the pixel structure has completely disappeared. And I can tell you, I am VERY sensitive to SDE.

I hope that Panasonic will eventually consider retiring this technology in their 1080p line.
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post #186 of 1121 Old 10-21-2009, 11:38 AM
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Hey Larrimore and Briandx, I am looking forward toward purchasing my first projector but i need some feedback from you guys. I plan on using a 120" diagonal screen of a gain of 1.0 about 15 ft throw distance. I will be using it mainly for movies and sometimes for some games/hdtv. Would you suggest the Mitsubishi hc6800 or Panasonic Ae4000u? From what i've read they have similar picture quality just the panasonic has darker blacks. I have a semi light controlled room. During the day i cant get it dark enough to not see my own hands, but at night that problem is solved. So what are your recommendations?
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post #187 of 1121 Old 10-21-2009, 11:58 AM
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Boy that's a hard question to answer absolutely.

IMHO the 6800 has three distinct advantages over the 4000 (as reviewed at projectorcentral.com):
1) The picture is sharper
2) It is brighter in the "best" mode
3) True blanking allows better control for overscan

The 4000 has these advantages:
1) $500 cheaper (at the moment)
2) slightly better black levels
3) frame interpolation

There seem to be many other areas where the performance of the two projectors are pretty close.

In your setup, the extra brightness might come in handy. If the 6800's street price drops to under $2K one of the 4000's main advantages goes away.

My guess is that both projectors will leave you pretty happy
However, for me the 6800 is better in the few areas that matter most to me.

Best of luck,
Brian
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post #188 of 1121 Old 10-21-2009, 06:19 PM
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Thank you for the response. Even though the Mitsubishi hc6800 seems expensive at the moment that 3 year no interest deal at BB sounds pretty good to me. Especially when I am on a short budget. Anyway I decided to wait for Art's review of this projector and the panasonic ae4000u. But anyhow if you dont mind the hassle, is there anyway you can post some pics of your projector in action? I would really like to see how picture quality looks like? Plus, I am curious since you have been stating that this projector "fits your needs." What size screen are you using? What is the gain on that screen? What is your throw distance? And is light controlled in that room?
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post #189 of 1121 Old 10-21-2009, 08:07 PM
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Screen size of 92", throw distance of 16 feet. That means that I use the entire 1.6x zoom, and I still have about 2% overscan (outside the boundaries of my screen). That is where the blanking feature really comes into play. I simply crop the picture until it fits perfectly inside my screen frame. The screen itself is a Vutec pulldown, 1.0 gain. My seating is 15 feet from the screen (slightly forward and below the projector lens).

My HT is also my living room, so there is some ambient light around.

Regards,
Brian
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post #190 of 1121 Old 10-22-2009, 03:43 AM
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Hi Guys, this is my first post!

What about lag in the 6800?
Reading the thread some of you compared it side by side with Epson 6100 that has almost no lag...

And what about lag in Mitsu old 5500, 6500 and 7000?
(may have a good price on these, or Sony HW10 that is also almost lag free)

As you understand I'm looking for a film like picture, low noise and no lag
Mitsu and Sony seems to be the best, would you agree?
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post #191 of 1121 Old 10-22-2009, 07:22 AM
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If by "lag" you mean image retention / response time in the LCD panels, the 6800 seems to be no better or worse than my Panasonic 2000, which IMHO was fine.

One interesting question I have about the 6800 is does it use Organic or Inorganic D7 panels? The review of the Epson 8100 seems to imply that the type of LCD panel has in the past has an effect on picture lag.
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post #192 of 1121 Old 10-22-2009, 07:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by briandx View Post

Jeez Jason where were you when I needed you?

My bad; I have a 1,000+ posts in this forum. I should have least checked that you sold the 6800.

No worries.
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post #193 of 1121 Old 10-22-2009, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by megashadow10 View Post

Thank you for the response. Even though the Mitsubishi hc6800 seems expensive at the moment that 3 year no interest deal at BB sounds pretty good to me. Especially when I am on a short budget. Anyway I decided to wait for Art's review of this projector and the panasonic ae4000u. But anyhow if you dont mind the hassle, is there anyway you can post some pics of your projector in action? I would really like to see how picture quality looks like? Plus, I am curious since you have been stating that this projector "fits your needs." What size screen are you using? What is the gain on that screen? What is your throw distance? And is light controlled in that room?

I cannot get good pictures, or I would be happy to. My BD200 does an excellent job on discs, but a horrible job on freeze frame, same for my Tivo. Taking pics without freezing the image is impossible.

I amy try again later with another player.

My screen is 100" 1.0 gain matte white and my projector is 10.5 ft away, so I use very little zoom. I also do the same thing Brian does with the overscan and blanking. It works great.


As far as lag:
I played Rock Band this weekend and had no issues, so it must do a fine job.

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post #194 of 1121 Old 10-22-2009, 12:50 PM
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Film Enthusiast -- I have the HC5500 and the only video that has bothersome "motion blur" is on TV shows with poor camera work (ultra fast panning - and there seems to be a lot of that lately = stupid editing / composition, IMHO). Absolutely no problems with movies on DVDs (SD or Blu-Ray) -- movie camera men/women know how to use cameras.

briandx -- It should be using the inorganic panels, just like its HC5500/HC6500/HC7000 predecessors. Incidentally, not all D7 panels are inorganic. Epson makes both organic and inorganic panels in both the D6 and D7 versions (per Ekkehart at Cine4Home). Their only unique ones are their "C2Fine" panels which are all inorganic D7's.

- Claus {non-Santa model}
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post #195 of 1121 Old 10-22-2009, 01:18 PM
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Great info! Thanks
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post #196 of 1121 Old 10-22-2009, 02:32 PM
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Thanks larrimore for the feedback. I have another question for you guys, since its going to be my first pj; how would you rate this projector's picture quality to those of movie theaters? Does it produce the same cinematic feel and effect?
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post #197 of 1121 Old 10-22-2009, 03:59 PM
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I actually prefer my HT to a "real" movie theater.

Although my 5 foot wide screen can't compete with a 50 foot wide screen, in most cases the overall picture quality is far better with the crop of projectors of today. The sound is certainly better. Plus no crying children, persistent talking, or having your seat kicked every two minutes.
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post #198 of 1121 Old 10-22-2009, 05:41 PM
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Hi guys,

I've never owned a projector before ,what is blanking and overscan.
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post #199 of 1121 Old 10-23-2009, 07:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by megashadow10 View Post

Thanks larrimore for the feedback. I have another question for you guys, since its going to be my first pj; how would you rate this projector's picture quality to those of movie theaters? Does it produce the same cinematic feel and effect?

Somewhere up this thread, I stated this was my main reason for getting the HC6800. I go to the movies frequently at a very good digital thater using Christie DLP projectors that do a fine job. This PJ looks so close to them that it is scary.

Closer to my house is an older theater that never has the picture right: always off the screen onto the border or has a balck bar at the top due to poor placement of the image, never focused well, etc. I would dare say that anyone who frequents this theater and then saw my HC6800 would never go there again...

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post #200 of 1121 Old 10-23-2009, 07:50 AM
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12nrow:

Here is a brief explanation that I posted on this thread about a week ago. Hopefully it will explain the subtle, yet important differences.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Blanking is a feature that I'm used to, having owned a CRT projector, but is not common in LCD projectors. Generally when I set up my image on my screen, I want to start with no overscan, and then add about 2%. This will take care of virtually any overscan "garbage" that may appear at the top or bottom of the screen.

Generally, I have found that HDTV does not require any overscan, but older types of video still do.

There are two ways to accomplish getting to 2% overscan:
1) For most front projectors (including the 6800) , there is an "overscan" setting, which can be set to any value between around 90% up to 100% The problem is, in order to do this, the projector re-scales the pixel mapping, which can slightly soften the picture (e.g. no pixel perfection). The image does not shrink; it is simply re-scaled.

2) The 6800 allows me to zoom the screen where there is a little overshoot on all 4 sides of the screen, with no overscan adjustment. Now this would really be annoying if I left it that way, however with blanking I literally shut off (or "blank" out) all 4 sides of the picture, one side at a time, until the image is perfectly framed within my screen.

No overscan adjustment, no softening!
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post #201 of 1121 Old 10-23-2009, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by briandx View Post

I actually prefer my HT to a "real" movie theater.

Although my 5 foot wide screen can't compete with a 50 foot wide screen, in most cases the overall picture quality is far better with the crop of projectors of today. The sound is certainly better. Plus no crying children, persistent talking, or having your seat kicked every two minutes.

On a 5' wide screen it must be a killer image!
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post #202 of 1121 Old 10-23-2009, 08:30 AM
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Actually Jason my math is a bit off. For a 92" diagonal screen the screen width is more like 6.5 feet. Still, the 6800 produces a sensational picture in my setup.

Sometimes I think we front projection system owners take for granted what a tremendous impact such a system can have for the HT viewing experience. For the folks out there that read these threads, there is simply no comparison between watching a movie on a 50 inch plasma and a 90-120 inch diagonal screen.

We can argue in this forum (and we sure do!) about which projector is best, but overall I think the majority of front projection system owners cannot praise enough how nice such setups can be.

A word to newbies who have not yet made the plunge - DO IT!
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post #203 of 1121 Old 10-23-2009, 08:34 AM
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Thanks ,

I have 17x26 light controled room , and want the projector for 100% movies , have been reading lots of threads , and reviews and dont know if i want yo wait for the panny . the 6800 has sparked interest because of the review on pc, sounds like what i'm looking for. a projector that will do movies well. and within my budget.
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post #204 of 1121 Old 10-23-2009, 08:44 AM
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As I mentioned previously, the 6800 is the right choice for me. However, depending on your screen size and viewing distance, the Panasonic 4000 may be a better choice for a lot of folks, especially at a below $2K price point.

Hopefully Mitsubishi will re-think the pricing for the 6800 and bring it more in line with some of it's main competition. But to sum up, if you desire an exceptionally sharp, bright, non-digital looking picture then the 6800 is a great choice. Add in the two year warranty and other useful features (very quiet, DI that actually works, excellent CR/BL, and true blanking) IMHO the 6800 is the one to beat!
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post #205 of 1121 Old 10-23-2009, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by briandx View Post

Actually Jason my math is a bit off. For a 92" diagonal screen the screen width is more like 6.5 feet. Still, the 6800 produces a sensational picture in my setup.

Sometimes I think we front projection system owners take for granted what a tremendous impact such a system can have for the HT viewing experience. For the folks out there that read these threads, there is simply no comparison between watching a movie on a 50 inch plasma and a 90-120 inch diagonal screen.

We can argue in this forum (and we sure do!) about which projector is best, but overall I think the majority of front projection system owners cannot praise enough how nice such setups can be.

A word to newbies who have not yet made the plunge - DO IT!

Still, so many are all about size with front projection. Often they don't know the quality that can be had from a more manageable screen, such as what you have.
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post #206 of 1121 Old 10-23-2009, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12nrow View Post

Thanks ,

I have 17x26 light controled room , and want the projector for 100% movies , have been reading lots of threads , and reviews and dont know if i want yo wait for the panny . the 6800 has sparked interest because of the review on pc, sounds like what i'm looking for. a projector that will do movies well. and within my budget.

Although I am biased, no one here has seen the Panny and "a bird in the hand..."

Give Jason a call....my $0.02.

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post #207 of 1121 Old 10-23-2009, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Turk View Post

Still, so many are all about size with front projection. Often they don't know the quality that can be had from a more manageable screen, such as what you have.

So true. I tried a 106" and it was overkill. At 10ft. seating, it was too big. 92" seemed a bit small. My 100" is just right, just like Mama Bear.

I can't get over some of these folks with 120" screens sitting 10 feet away! To each his own, I guess.

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post #208 of 1121 Old 10-23-2009, 09:37 AM
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That definitely sums it up...to each his own. Personally, I am a quality more than quantity guy (though if I want size I'll get a 3 chip DLP and then I can have both....for $40k).
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post #209 of 1121 Old 10-23-2009, 01:24 PM
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I'll give this a go. We'll see if they are worth anything to anyone. Please keep in mind the camera is not a Nikon...and I am not a photographer.
LL
LL
LL

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post #210 of 1121 Old 10-23-2009, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Turk View Post

Still, so many are all about size with front projection. Often they don't know the quality that can be had from a more manageable screen, such as what you have.

I know what you mean.

I have a friend who has the Panny AE700 projector with a 94" diag GrayHawk screen. I'm always amazed at the image quality every time I go over to his house, especially given the ridiculously low price he paid for both those used items. The bigger the screen, the harder it is to maintain lots of the quality that is easy to realise on a smaller screen. I have a really big screen with 4 way masking but I'm finding I'm often enjoying various movies at smaller sizes (which I can do with my masking), for the image quality.
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