Optoma HD8600 - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP > Optoma HD8600
guitarman's Avatar guitarman 09:03 PM 07-29-2010
I really don't know what the fuss is about the DI, it's the same but actually the newer version of the DI in the Planar machine which many reviewers loved. I looked over the HD8600's DI action and it was great and a big improvement over the HD8200 which had the same system as the Planar not the newer version.

There were no changes to the HD8600's DI system.

Raul GS's Avatar Raul GS 09:54 PM 07-29-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarman View Post

I really don't know what the fuss is about the DI, it's the same but actually the newer version of the DI in the Planar machine which many reviewers loved. I looked over the HD8600's DI action and it was great and a big improvement over the HD8200 which had the same system as the Planar not the newer version.

There were no changes to the HD8600's DI system.

The iris is only 1 part of the equation. The other part (and perhaps more critical) is the algorithm used to control the DI. As you noted, the HD8200 used the same iris as the Planar, yet many believed the Planar to be one of the best DI implementations out there, conversely, many have sold their Optoma because they could not stand its DI. That being said, judging by the info provided, the people who are critical of HD8600 or Vivitek implementation seemed to have used a more aggressive DI action than you have (judging by the higher on/of they obtained).
rafparedis's Avatar rafparedis 05:53 AM 07-30-2010
I guess white crush is inevitable when using a DI. In the limited time I've used the projector since the upgrade I think the iris operation is more transparent than before. The optoma used a more aggressive DI judging from arts review of the vivitek. The vivitek's black level wasn't as highly rated as the blacks of the HD86(00). Probably because of a less aggressive DI algorithm implementation.

My judgement is still out on this but I guess DI operation has improved also.

The visibility of the DI depends on some factors too. I live in a country where subtitles are the norm. The DI becomes visible when the subtitles influence the opening and closing of the iris in darker scenes. Having a proper masking system to eliminate the black bars can also reduce the visibility of the DI operation.

btw thanks tom for the communication with optoma and the delivery of the firmware to us
guitarman's Avatar guitarman 11:05 AM 07-30-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raul GS View Post

The iris is only 1 part of the equation. The other part (and perhaps more critical) is the algorithm used to control the DI. As you noted, the HD8200 used the same iris as the Planar, yet many believed the Planar to be one of the best DI implementations out there, conversely, many have sold their Optoma because they could not stand its DI. That being said, judging by the info provided, the people who are critical of HD8600 or Vivitek implementation seemed to have used a more aggressive DI action than you have (judging by the higher on/of they obtained).

I read the planar owner thread and there were still people that didn't like the DI and sold the planar. The planar didn't have a DB choice maybe and right the higher on/off they got probably meant the used DB2. You can see some actions in DB2. I told Wing they should have left it out.

But you know what sometimes DB2 can be used. I used it first out on my HD8200 and if I saw the movies content was making DB2 too noticable I'd switch to DB1. At times I watched maybe 10 movies in a row with DB2 and never saw brightness pumping. It's wierd
Raul GS's Avatar Raul GS 09:26 AM 07-31-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarman View Post

The planar didn't have a DB choice maybe and right the higher on/off they got probably meant the used DB2. You can see some actions in DB2. I told Wing they should have left it out.

Something that is not clear to me, do the settings in the static iris affect the DI? If I remember correctly it has 2 iris, one static and the other dynamic. I alsom seem to remember that you used a different setting in the static iris, and I'm guessing that has an effect since it changes how visible an algorithm may be. I.e. if the static setting affects the DI (and I don't see why not, since if it is static, and I assume that only one iris is affected by the automatic process) then different settings in the static iris could lead the DI mechanism to be either too aggressive or not aggressive enough; thus one reviewer picking one number and another picking another setting could lead to different perceptions of the DI in action.

Tom, could you provide some insight on how the DI operates in the Optoma?

Thanks
guitarman's Avatar guitarman 01:16 PM 07-31-2010
It does react to video brightness levels so maybe closing manual iris will effect how the DI moves. If I remember right I used a closed static iris almost 3/4's closed, Art who likes blacks left it fully open and I don't know why. Wing told me the DB is fast moving a split second I think.
rafparedis's Avatar rafparedis 03:37 AM 08-01-2010
I think the manual and DI are two separate irises that operate independently from each other. The manual iris is used to tame the light output of the projector depending on your room/screen situation and doesn't influence the DI, just the baseline black level.
Raul GS's Avatar Raul GS 12:10 PM 08-01-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by rafparedis View Post

I think the manual and DI are two separate irises that operate independently from each other. The manual iris is used to tame the light output of the projector depending on your room/screen situation and doesn't influence the DI, just the baseline black level.

Yes, but the static probably affects how visible the DI is in operation. It is conceivable that different baselines on lumens output can affect how visible a DI is in operation. This would also explain the different CR (on/off) that has been posted for the Vivitek by Jason, and the Optoma by Art, as compared to Tom, who has posted significantly lower on/off, but apparently much better performance from the DI visibility perspective.

All of this is just wild guessing from my part since I have not seen either projector, I'm just trying to understand the differences being posted.
RoopeB's Avatar RoopeB 03:33 AM 08-06-2010
I'm about to update my HD80 to HD86. Read great reviews about HD86's image but haven't yet been able to found comments about the audible noise. HD80 is 27db and HD86 29db, says specs from Optoma. My HD80 is quite loud that's for sure, but it's not THAT loud. When watching movie I hardly ever pay attention to the HD80 noise.

Have anyone of you heard these two in same room, is HD86 really louder than HD80? Someone measured HD86 as ~33db, any real life information about HD80?
alcatol's Avatar alcatol 07:12 AM 08-06-2010
Hello,
I had the chance to test the HD86 (Its name in Europe) for 2 days, beside my HC7000 MITSUBISHI (A quiet, very quiet projector : 17dB !) and I can confirm that, if the HD86 noise is definitely louder than the HC7000, it is not this annoying, mainly because those 29dB are nicely tuned for the human ear.
For me, it is not a reason at all to reject this model, as the image and offered functionalities are very attractive :
Lens-shift range is quite large for DLP technology, in fact as large as the MITSU !
A lot of light is available, and one can tune it nicely by the static iris : Means that you can look at sports on TV without shuttering the room in the afternoon, but lower down the light level in "Home Cinema" conditions. Very nice indeed !
Even at full open iris, in total darkness, black levels are very good and gives a really punchy image. I appreciate the PureMotion effect during action movies, but I want to disable it ... And it seems that the last firmware version is correcting nicely the two problems I found :
1 - DI was not properly programmed : One could see erratic operations from time to time
2 - Blu-Ray display, in 1080P 24hz not fluid at all, when PureMotion is "off".
Problems that vanished apparently, with Firmware 1.11.
I should move on for this model soon ...
guitarman's Avatar guitarman 03:46 PM 08-06-2010
"1 - DI was not properly programmed : One could see erratic operations from time to time."

Interesting I didn't get DI info from my contact when I got the firmware. Maybe he just left that info part out, earlier they did say one of the things coming was to better the DI so It looks like they did that also.
coolrda's Avatar coolrda 05:15 PM 08-07-2010
After spending some time viewing the 8600 and the Runco LS-5, they are clearly in a different league. It's not some huge difference but it's the small things like the way the LS-5 handles the gamma(dmd) during the DI clamp. A better word is more refined. Though I am enthralled with the Marantz and the Samsung 900(even the test patterns are mesmerizing) the Runco is in that bullpen. To date this is Optoma's best effort, it's definitely a product I would buy. The problem is, regardless of what Optoma thinks it's worth, MSRP should be $5K with a street of $3-3.5K. No matter how big or small one thinks the step is, it's still a step up. Many including myself, have believed Runco, years back, was a gimmick, overpriced elitist brand built on a marquee. All fluff no substance. With The Planar buyout things are changing, certainly with the rebadged LS series. Optoma is the Hyundai of the projector world. Good product but stuck with a low budget mass market persona. In order to join the big boys club, they need perfection at a ground breaking price. Maybe someday they will make it in the door, but that day isn't here yet.
Justins123's Avatar Justins123 06:38 PM 08-07-2010
I'm not sure comparing Optoma to Hyundai is that accurate. Hyundais are actually pretty reliable.
mark haflich's Avatar mark haflich 06:19 AM 08-08-2010
And he scores.
noah katz's Avatar noah katz 09:55 AM 08-08-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarman View Post

I really don't know what the fuss is about the DI, it's the same but actually the newer version of the DI in the Planar machine which many reviewers loved.

Why do you think the DI's are the same?

AFAIK Planar developed their own voice coil actuated DI and their own algorithm's.
rafparedis's Avatar rafparedis 01:04 PM 08-09-2010
After some time with the firmware update I also have the feeling the DI operation is refined
guitarman's Avatar guitarman 01:40 PM 08-09-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

Why do you think the DI's are the same?

AFAIK Planar developed their own voice coil actuated DI and their own algorithm's.

In a way you're correct, the HD8600 is a newer dynamic black 2 from Ti, planers dynamic black would be the first version, the version 1 the HD8200 has.

Anyway looks like people are enjoying the new upgrade for their HD86/HD600's.

It is expensive I have to agree there, over my price range for a TV.
guitarman's Avatar guitarman 01:55 PM 08-09-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by rafparedis View Post

After some time with the firmware update I also have the feeling the DI operation is refined

You're right it's confirmed, work was done to the DI in the lastest firmware.

So three items - 24pfs, DI, Luminance control to the CMS.
maciejk's Avatar maciejk 06:17 AM 08-11-2010
As I'm rather afraid of updating firmware by myself I asked Optoma service center for help. They contacted Optoma UK for new firmware and ... Optoma UK denied that new firmware is available for HD86 Now I'm really confused, how is that possible UK not confirm new firmware when it is already available for US ? Seems that there's no internal communication in Optoma organization. Any suggestions ?
guitarman's Avatar guitarman 08:19 AM 08-11-2010
Their engineering mgr needs to ask Taiwan for it. Go back and ask them how long will it be since it's out already in the US.
RoopeB's Avatar RoopeB 04:21 AM 08-12-2010
Will get my HD86 (HD8600) today and have very high hopes for it - upgraded from HD80.

Any good settings to test it with?
rafparedis's Avatar rafparedis 06:06 AM 08-12-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by maciejk View Post

As I'm rather afraid of updating firmware by myself I asked Optoma service center for help. They contacted Optoma UK for new firmware and ... Optoma UK denied that new firmware is available for HD86 Now I'm really confused, how is that possible UK not confirm new firmware when it is already available for US ? Seems that there's no internal communication in Optoma organization. Any suggestions ?

Well to me the response from the UK office was that there was a new firmware for the HD86 but that I need to send it in to my service center (netherlands) to get the update loaded. I didn't want to sent it. Luckily tom had the firmware.

the firmware we are talking about is 1.11
guitarman's Avatar guitarman 07:58 PM 08-12-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoopeB View Post

Will get my HD86 (HD8600) today and have very high hopes for it - upgraded from HD80.

Any good settings to test it with?

I know they're expensive but I really liked the one I tested, now it's even better. My buddy said they will give me a super deal for helping them with so many things. Think I'll give it a shot and try to pick one up, the LCD just isn't doing it for me.

Enjoy your new high end machine.
RoopeB's Avatar RoopeB 01:53 AM 08-16-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarman View Post

I know they're expensive but I really liked the one I tested, now it's even better. My buddy said they will give me a super deal for helping them with so many things. Think I'll give it a shot and try to pick one up, the LCD just isn't doing it for me.

Enjoy your new high end machine.

Thanks guitarman! I'm with you about the LCDs not quite doing it for me either.

Got mine on Friday, image quality is really really good. Although the individual I received had few quality control problems.
- Lens shift knobs are some what "loose" - not having the active range always in control meaning there are come caps between the working and nonworking areas on the knob's range.
- About 6cm (2.4") crack on the top of the case (photo1, photo2).
- Problems with my PS3; picture freezing for few seconds, image cracks, breaks and have some weird lines, loosing source over and over again. Although I recall these same PS3 problems with my earlier HD80 before upgrading the fw.

Current fw is 1.08, is it possible to do the upgrade my self?

I should receive a new pj in a couple of days, it hopefully fixes the problems i'm having.
Ras10's Avatar Ras10 08:02 AM 08-16-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarman View Post

You're right it's confirmed, work was done to the DI in the lastest firmware.

So three items - 24pfs, DI, Luminance control to the CMS.

First would like to thank Guitarman for getting us the new firmware but I can't believe no one else is reporting any problems when using 1080p 24p - when I use this mode and I'm only guessing because I'm no expert, that the color wheel slows to the point of changing the color accuracy and very slight gliches but as soon as I output 1080p 60HZ problem goes away (using Oppo 83BDP as player).

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoopeB View Post

- Lens shift knobs are some what "loose" - not having the active range always in control meaning there are come caps between the working and nonworking areas on the knob's range. ?

I can report this is not just your unit also happens on mine although I think it's part of the design as you can keep the knob in a non engaged area when not making adjustments - will not allow shift to move from where you put it - not a flaw in my opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoopeB View Post

Current fw is 1.08, is it possible to do the upgrade my self?

You most certainly can as long as you have the 1.11 firmware file a computer and a serial cable. Note unit must be off when you start the process then turn unit on when told in the instructions that came with the file.

I also have a question I have noticed that when I try to get focus as sharp as possible with the projecter focus ring I can get the top left or bottom right in perfect focus but not both any one else notice this or is this possibly a problem with my setup process?
AcuDefTechGuy 08:28 AM 08-16-2010
Are you guys buying your HD8600 from a local dealer or online?
guitarman's Avatar guitarman 01:04 PM 08-16-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoopeB View Post

Thanks guitarman! I'm with you about the LCDs not quite doing it for me either.

Got mine on Friday, image quality is really really good. Although the individual I received had few quality control problems.
- Lens shift knobs are some what "loose" - not having the active range always in control meaning there are come caps between the working and nonworking areas on the knob's range.
- About 6cm (2.4") crack on the top of the case (photo1, photo2).
- Problems with my PS3; picture freezing for few seconds, image cracks, breaks and have some weird lines, loosing source over and over again. Although I recall these same PS3 problems with my earlier HD80 before upgrading the fw.

Current fw is 1.08, is it possible to do the upgrade my self?

I should receive a new pj in a couple of days, it hopefully fixes the problems i'm having.

There's simple instructions in the files, all you need is a computer with RS-232 or a convertor cable from USB to RS-232.
guitarman's Avatar guitarman 01:09 PM 08-16-2010
"very slight gliches "

With 24fps you'll see problems with certain video material but that should stop once you're to the video that's 24fps.
RoopeB's Avatar RoopeB 01:20 PM 08-16-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarman View Post

There's simple instructions in the files, all you need is a computer with RS-232 or a convertor cable to RS-232.

From where I can find these files? thanks
guitarman's Avatar guitarman 03:44 PM 08-16-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoopeB View Post

From where I can find these files? thanks

You have to pm me your email so I can forward the files, they are in zip form.
Tags: Optoma Hd8600 50 000 Contrast Ratio Hdmi
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