Optoma HD8600 - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 660 Old 02-04-2011, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by rafparedis View Post

I think it'll accept all deep color bit depths (36bit/48bit)?
How this information if handled in the image processing I don't know. Is there already deep color content available ?

The image processing specification should be "true 10-bit full HD processing" according to the HD8600 data sheet.

My blu-ray disk player could output 30bit/36bit deep color format to projector. Will the deep color output improve the image quality?
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post #542 of 660 Old 02-05-2011, 01:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Jonathanh1002 View Post

The image processing specification should be "true 10-bit full HD processing" according to the HD8600 data sheet.

My blu-ray disk player could output 30bit/36bit deep color format to projector. Will the deep color output improve the image quality?

I've also noticed that. In practice I don't think you will see a difference if you toggle on the deep color setting on your blu-ray player. There's a lack of deep color encoded content. At the moment I look at it as a selling bullet point

The 10bit full hd processing might imply you'll loose some information when the content is 12 or 16 bit per channel. But this should not be a deterrent for buying this projector. Most display devices don't specify their internal bit depth processing but you can be certain most devices will have a similar bit depth.
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post #543 of 660 Old 02-08-2011, 03:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rafparedis View Post

I guess there's another issue at hand with the machines that do not work with the firmware ? The firmware is most probably global. If you take the specification of the HD86 and HD87 side by side the field of improvements (a bit more ansi, dynamic contrast, lumens, pure motion version) are numbers that can easily be played with. I still think the HD86 and HD87 are the same hardware and that the HD87 is just a relabeled HD86 with firmware 1.11 loaded.

I just had a great conversation with the head of Optoma Home Cinema UK - really nice guy and very generous with his time considering I'm just a pleb. I called because I am still interested in the HD87 and am fixing up a shoot out at a dealer between my JVC HD750 (RS20) and their demo HD87. I commented on my problems with the dynamic iris of the HD82 (which are documented in the HD82 thread). He told me that the HD86/87 iris is completely changed from that one - that it is now a claw style, fast iris in comparison to the HD82 which was slower and more like a camera shutter. When I asked whether the HD87 was just an HD86 with updated firmware he said that no, there were hardware changes as well including an updated lightpath and that it was this that had primarily boosted the HD87 contrast over the HD86.

One concern I have now that I have become accustomed to great black levels without need for a dynamic iris is whether the HD87 can get anywhere near my HD750 with dynamic black switched off. I re-read Art's review of the HD86 at Projector Reviews - one in which he praised the HD86 for its black level performance - and I noted something I hadn't picked up before. Art stated that all his viewing of the HD86 had been with the manual iris set at 9 or at most 7 - which is practically wide open. I presume that had he shut it down further he would have gotten even better black levels. This gives me hope. What do other folks have their manual iris set at? Of course, even the Optoma guy acknowledged that the HD87's black levels aren't quite as good as the JVC's but he did say that they were now close enough to make other factors such as lumens and sharpness the deciding factor in a purchase. For me, a potential switch to the HD87 from my HD750 would mean reducing my screen size from 110" to 105" but I hope that this won't be too noticeable. Really looking forward to my shoot out now! It's going to be an interesting battle.

Would love to hear objective reflections from HD87 owners on their purchase. I'm anticipating that the following will be true:

JVC HD750
+ better black levels
+ lower fan noise
+ more placement flexibility
+ motorised zoom/focus

HD87

+ sharper
+ more lumens
+ better images in brighter scenes

According to Art's review colour reproduction will be a tie as will be shadow detail. Both machines are equipped with full CMS.
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post #544 of 660 Old 02-09-2011, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by rafparedis View Post
got the projector back from the repair center. On the repair sheet they stated they didn't find the problem. Used it and had the flashing happen again within the hour ... (btw they didn't do a firmware upgrade from the 1.08 I've put it on before sending)
Hi Raf, then there is no solution to the problem?
Yesterday again displayed the flashing.

Greetings
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post #545 of 660 Old 02-10-2011, 01:46 AM
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Originally Posted by mckey View Post

Hi Raf, then there is no solution to the problem?
Yesterday again displayed the flashing.

Greetings

Hey,

Till now no solution. They've sent back the projector stating they didn't find anything.

I did some new tests. First I connected a new xbox360 to the projector on hdmi1 with only the xbox connected.(1080p60) Still the problem. Then I've bought me a HDMI to component converter to try if that might solve the issue (and as a backup plan should the issue never get resolved that I can fall back to this).But through the component setup the flashing still happened. Resolution at that time was 576p50.

The repair center created a new RMA request for me. I've arranged a pickup by UPS and it should be back in repair tomorrow ...
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post #546 of 660 Old 02-24-2011, 03:10 AM
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I've got feedback from the repair center. The contact had used the projector as his pc screen and finally he noticed the phenomenon I was talking about. They've consulted with optoma and as a result a new color wheel and sensor has been ordered. Now it's waiting on the parts and then hope it'll be solved. McKey, I'll keep posting updates when there's news
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post #547 of 660 Old 02-25-2011, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rafparedis View Post

I've got feedback from the repair center. The contact had used the projector as his pc screen and finally he noticed the phenomenon I was talking about. They've consulted with optoma and as a result a new color wheel and sensor has been ordered. Now it's waiting on the parts and then hope it'll be solved. McKey, I'll keep posting updates when there's news

Hi Raf, thanks for the info. I hope more news about the repair .
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post #548 of 660 Old 03-01-2011, 05:08 AM
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Well I've given in and have ordered an HD87. I did a demo of the HD87 against my HD750 at a dealer recently and found their performance to be really close, with some slight advantages to the Optoma and others to the JVC. You can read my mini review here. What I'll do now is run the two projectors in my home cinema room and after a short while make a final decision as to which one to keep. I have a feeling that it's going to be a difficult decision. I'd like more sharpness and punch in higher APL scenes but I love the deep DiLA blacks. Can't have both though. Wondering about a grey screen for the HD87 to help with the blacks? Has anyone with an HD86 or HD87 done this? I've never had a grey screen before. Do your whites look more washed out? In general, are those folks with the HD87 still happy with their purchase?
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post #549 of 660 Old 03-01-2011, 01:46 PM
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I tried a grayscreen it makes the white dull, did a a/b with white screens went back with white.

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post #550 of 660 Old 03-01-2011, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by guitarman View Post

I tried a grayscreen it makes the white dull, did a a/b with white screens went back with white.

Good to know. Was reading Art's review of the HD8600 and he seemed to be recommending a grey screen with it. But then he had the fixed iris open to 9(!)
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post #551 of 660 Old 03-02-2011, 02:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Canary_Jules View Post
Good to know. Was reading Art's review of the HD8600 and he seemed to be recommending a grey screen with it. But then he had the fixed iris open to 9(!)
with my hd800x

I've got a gray (painted screen). I also tried a test board with one half plain white and the other the paint mix (I think black widow?) The whites were indeed muted on the gray screen but the black level was lower as well. The white panel had very elevated black levels when compared with the grey screen.

When viewing the picture without the direct comparison, the whites on the gray screen did not look dull.
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post #552 of 660 Old 03-02-2011, 04:57 AM
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I purchesed optoma hd 87 up grading by hd 86 ha ha
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post #553 of 660 Old 03-02-2011, 05:11 AM
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Originally Posted by dreamhomecinema View Post
I purchesed optoma hd 87 up grading by hd 86 ha ha
I'm not so sure that the HD87 is exactly the same as the HD86 with firmware upgrade. I spoke to the head of Optoma UK sales recently and he told me that there were not only software improvements over the HD86 but that the light path had also been modified. It is this combination, he said, that gives the HD87 the better native and ANSI contrast figures.
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post #554 of 660 Old 03-02-2011, 08:25 AM
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picture depth details are improved colors are very good and lighting also improved now i having both projectors hd 86 and hd 87 also
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post #555 of 660 Old 03-02-2011, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by dreamhomecinema View Post

picture depth details are improved colors are very good and lighting also improved now i having both projectors hd 86 and hd 87 also

Sorry, I think I misunderstood you. I thought you were saying that the HD87 is just the HD86 with the latest firmware. So you have had both the HD87 and the HD86? You think the HD87 is a better machine?
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post #556 of 660 Old 03-02-2011, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by guitarman View Post
I tried a grayscreen it makes the white dull, did a a/b with white screens went back with white.
Does anyone else have any experience with ND2 or ND4 or ND8 -filter (neutral density gray, 50% / 25% / 12,5% light passing)?

I have a Hoya ND8x Pro which I used with my previous Optoma HD800x. I had read about people using ND2 or ND4, but I figured I could as well buy ND8 since the adjustable iris (smallest aperture used w/o ND-filter) left the freedom to fully compensate the filter effect. With 800x the filter really helped, though I had to slightly open the iris.

With HD86 I've been so far too lazy to work the filter in front of the lens to try it out, the black levels are impressive enough even without the filter. If I should get that done some day then some advice / hints would be useful: which color management controls I should ideally touch to (partly) regain the white levels while keeping the black levels low? Contrast only or should some other adjustments be considered? Has anyone calibrated projector colors before & after ND-filter, what kind of changes were done?

Unfortunately I don't have color calibration equipment (other than AVSHD709 and my eyes) and sound is more important than the picture, but I still love good picture also...
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post #557 of 660 Old 03-10-2011, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Canary_Jules View Post

I'm not so sure that the HD87 is exactly the same as the HD86 with firmware upgrade. I spoke to the head of Optoma UK sales recently and he told me that there were not only software improvements over the HD86 but that the light path had also been modified. It is this combination, he said, that gives the HD87 the better native and ANSI contrast figures.

I've got my repair note for my HD86. I can confirm that the motherboard for both is the same (on the sheet the motherboard replacement was called motherboard HD86/HD87). The software they put on he HD86 was version 1.10. PWP14, so I guess the 1.11 PWP15 is the first firmware used for the HD87
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post #558 of 660 Old 03-10-2011, 11:45 PM
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Originally Posted by mckey View Post

Hi Raf, thanks for the info. I hope more news about the repair .

More news about the repair. I just received the projector. On the worksheet was noted that the motherboard and color wheel have been replaced. According to them the defect was in the color wheel. I've only used the projector yesterday evening but it didn't flash on me during that time. So I really hope this issue is now behind me. I'll provide a short update after the weekend.
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post #559 of 660 Old 03-16-2011, 03:03 AM
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Originally Posted by rafparedis View Post

More news about the repair. I just received the projector. On the worksheet was noted that the motherboard and color wheel have been replaced. According to them the defect was in the color wheel. I've only used the projector yesterday evening but it didn't flash on me during that time. So I really hope this issue is now behind me. I'll provide a short update after the weekend.

The update as promised. The projector now appears to be working fine. Looks like both the originally purchased and the replacement had the same defect...
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post #560 of 660 Old 03-18-2011, 11:48 PM
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Curiosity got the better of me a couple of weeks ago so I took the plunge and bought an HD87 to demo against my JVC HD750 (RS20). The HD87 is a damn fine machine. I love the lumens it puts on the screen. I have the lens iris closed down to 3 and it's wonderfully bright whereas to get roughly the same brightness on my HD750 (with 725 hours on the bulb) I have to open the iris completely. Obviously there's a difference in hours on the bulb which accounts for this but most people prefer a brighter image and the HD87 has it in spades. This brightness really sings in mid-high APL scenes. The other thing I love about the HD87 is it's high ANSI contrast level meaning that in mixed scenes blacks stay really black. Peak whites are really white and combined with the high ANSI contrast look stunning. The resulting image is simply terrific. Where the HD87 falls down compared to my HD750 is in it's absolute black level though. It just can't get down dark enough to match it even with the DI on. If I'd never seen a JVC I'd probably be happy though. For me the DI even in Cinema 1 mode is evident at times but I guess I have a sensitivity to DI, so I prefer to switch it off although this raises black levels a tad. A grey screen could be the perfect combination with the HD87. The thing is I like the size of my present 110" diag screen and in my room I can't get that with the HD87. I did think about this before I bought the HD87 but I thought I could get used to losing a few inches. In practice I've found that I'd prefer not to. Also, since I have an HD750 that does fantastic blacks I've found out that that's an area I don't want to compromise on either. There is so much about the HD87 I'd like to hold on to. That ANSI contrast and lumen power is so tempting and it's frustrating that the HD750 doesn't have it. I should add that the HD87 is quiet - much quieter than any previous DLP that I've owned. It also has a very good amount of lens shift - again, much better than any DLP I've previously owned. It looks great. I started a mini review/comparison thread at AVSForum if anyone is interested in more detail. In any case I've had to make a decision and I'll be keeping the JVC. I'm now grappling with the issue of how to get more lumens from my HD750 and am contemplating a Da-Lite High Power screen but that's another issue. So if anyone is interested in a HD87 at a great price with only 12 hours on it's bulb just let me know
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post #561 of 660 Old 03-21-2011, 11:26 AM
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Hi all.

I'm looking to buy an HD86 (Australian/Euro equivalent of the HD8600), and I'll have to move very soon.

One doubt I have is about the heat exhaust at the rear.
I'm going to have to mount the Optoma a mere 5cm from the back wall!
You can see this here.

I'm sure I'll always run in Eco mode.

Am I pushing my luck doing this?


Thanks in advance...


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post #562 of 660 Old 03-22-2011, 04:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Electric_Haggis View Post

Hi all.

I'm looking to buy an HD86 (Australian/Euro equivalent of the HD8600), and I'll have to move very soon.

One doubt I have is about the heat exhaust at the rear.
I'm going to have to mount the Optoma a mere 5cm from the back wall!
You can see this here.

I'm sure I'll always run in Eco mode.

Am I pushing my luck doing this?


Thanks in advance...

I'd never position the projector 5 cm from the back wall. I would consider it pushing your luck.
The lamps of the HD86 are not cheap

Maybe installing some means to pull the hot air to the side (a small (computer) fan might be enough to make it possible.
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post #563 of 660 Old 03-22-2011, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rafparedis View Post

I'd never position the projector 5 cm from the back wall. I would consider it pushing your luck.
The lamps of the HD86 are not cheap

Maybe installing some means to pull the hot air to the side (a small (computer) fan might be enough to make it possible.


Got it now.
Fortunately, it's more like 12cm. Hopefully that'll hold out.

Mini-fan might be the go, otherwise...


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post #564 of 660 Old 03-23-2011, 04:01 PM
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The High Power would work for your dimming JVC. I have the RS2 but I have it close to eye level to pick up the gain from my HP screen. The image is blarring bright with 450hrs on the bulb. I'm now thinking of getting a HD8600 but I would have to go from a 106" screen to a 92"diag screen and that hurts.

We just never get enough.

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post #565 of 660 Old 03-23-2011, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by guitarman View Post
Got it today, very good black level, killer black level really, two Irises DI and a power stepped Iris by the lamp. Very hard to detect the DI on this one.
Confused by your comment about the RS2 and getting a "8600" today, 03/23/2011???

Don't you have an 8600???
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post #566 of 660 Old 03-23-2011, 07:14 PM
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I tested one but could buy one at a great price basically what I have into the RS2, it's tempting I miss the DLP quality.

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post #567 of 660 Old 03-24-2011, 02:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarman View Post

The High Power would work for your dimming JVC. I have the RS2 but I have it close to eye level to pick up the gain from my HP screen. The image is blarring bright with 450hrs on the bulb. I'm now thinking of getting a HD8600 but I would have to go from a 106" screen to a 92"diag screen and that hurts.

We just never get enough.

Can't imagine what an HD8600 would look like on the HP screen. I understand it with the RS2 though. I had an RS2 for a short while and it lacked lumens. I had to run the lamp on high power just to get a reasonable amount of lumens on the screen. I wouldn't think the HD8600 and an HP screen to be a good combination though. The HD8600 already has bags of lumens and it would surely just burn your eyes out?! Thanks for the recommendation with the HD750 though. Loads of people rave about the HP screens. Practically artifact free so I understand. With my present ceiling mounted set up I've calculated I can get 1.8 gain, even more if I drop my JVC by a foot or so. Will have to start saving up for one.
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post #568 of 660 Old 03-24-2011, 12:00 PM
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I have a brand new HD86 with the standard zoom lens.

Is it normal for the zoom ring, focus ring and lens-shift dials to interact with each other?

For example, if I zoom in or out all the way, the lens bumps slightly and needs refocusing. My previous Benq W5000 would remain firmly focused throughout the entire zoom range. The extreme ends of the lens-shift dials will also bump the lens slightly.

When I put the lens in, it did click firmly into place.


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post #569 of 660 Old 03-24-2011, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electric_Haggis View Post

I have a brand new HD86 with the standard zoom lens.

Is it normal for the zoom ring, focus ring and lens-shift dials to interact with each other?

For example, if I zoom in or out all the way, the lens bumps slightly and needs refocusing. My previous Benq W5000 would remain firmly focused throughout the entire zoom range. The extreme ends of the lens-shift dials will also bump the lens slightly.

When I put the lens in, it did click firmly into place.

Don't worry. It's not a problem with your projector. It's normal behavior for the HD86
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post #570 of 660 Old 03-26-2011, 09:19 PM
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Don't worry. It's not a problem with your projector. It's normal behavior for the HD86

Hmm. I can understand a slight interaction, but the picture-bump when you reach the end of the zoom seems odd...


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