Optoma HD8600 - Page 20 - AVS Forum
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post #571 of 660 Old 04-08-2011, 11:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canary_Jules View Post

Curiosity got the better of me a couple of weeks ago so I took the plunge and bought an HD87 to demo against my JVC HD750 (RS20). The HD87 is a damn fine machine. I love the lumens it puts on the screen. I have the lens iris closed down to 3 and it's wonderfully bright whereas to get roughly the same brightness on my HD750 (with 725 hours on the bulb) I have to open the iris completely. Obviously there's a difference in hours on the bulb which accounts for this but most people prefer a brighter image and the HD87 has it in spades. This brightness really sings in mid-high APL scenes. The other thing I love about the HD87 is it's high ANSI contrast level meaning that in mixed scenes blacks stay really black. Peak whites are really white and combined with the high ANSI contrast look stunning. The resulting image is simply terrific. Where the HD87 falls down compared to my HD750 is in it's absolute black level though. It just can't get down dark enough to match it even with the DI on. If I'd never seen a JVC I'd probably be happy though. For me the DI even in Cinema 1 mode is evident at times but I guess I have a sensitivity to DI, so I prefer to switch it off although this raises black levels a tad. A grey screen could be the perfect combination with the HD87. The thing is I like the size of my present 110" diag screen and in my room I can't get that with the HD87. I did think about this before I bought the HD87 but I thought I could get used to losing a few inches. In practice I've found that I'd prefer not to. Also, since I have an HD750 that does fantastic blacks I've found out that that's an area I don't want to compromise on either. There is so much about the HD87 I'd like to hold on to. That ANSI contrast and lumen power is so tempting and it's frustrating that the HD750 doesn't have it. I should add that the HD87 is quiet - much quieter than any previous DLP that I've owned. It also has a very good amount of lens shift - again, much better than any DLP I've previously owned. It looks great. I started a mini review/comparison thread at AVSForum if anyone is interested in more detail. In any case I've had to make a decision and I'll be keeping the JVC. I'm now grappling with the issue of how to get more lumens from my HD750 and am contemplating a Da-Lite High Power screen but that's another issue.

Sounds like you might have been better off going with the HD87, with all its punch & ANSI-contrast and cleaner motion, then using a gray screen and/or filters to get the blacks down.
That way you would have had the best of both worlds!

I tried out the new JVC X3 a few weeks ago.
Too dim for 3D, but for 2D it's a huge jump up from their previous generations.

Even then - I still preferred coming home to my 3 year-old Benq W5000 with its sharpness and punch.

For the record, the Optoma HD86(00) is a modest but worthwhile step up from the W5000. It's smaller, spunkier, brighter, has better contrast with deeper blacks, and the DI with Cinema1 is usually invisible and doesn't hurt highlights.
Best of all, I can now zoom out to 240cm for scope movies!

This is a bloody terrific machine, and my love for DLP just never lets up.

However, I do slightly miss the Benq's motorised lens shift, faster & smoother signal switching, and no need to refocus when you zoom. It also had very slightly more sharpness, probably due to the optics and 0.95" DMD.
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post #572 of 660 Old 04-09-2011, 12:06 AM
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Can any generous folks here post their calibrated CMS settings?

I was pretty staggered at how good the HD86(00) is out of the box.
I dialed in the colour settings from projectorcentral, and found things got slightly better still.

* I'm on Firmware 1.11, which is the latest (?)

* Lens type is Standard

* Lamp setting is Standard (eco)

* Lamp hours - 51

* Screen size zooms in and out from 230 x 96 cm for scope movies, down to 184 x 103cm for 16x9.

* Throw distance is 3.65m

* Screen is matte white

* You can see more by clicking on my signature


Here are my main settings so far, using test patterns and known blu-rays...

IMAGE
Display Mode: Cinema 2
Contrast: 0
Brightness: 0
Color: -7
Tint: 0
Sharpness: 0-4

ADVANCED
Noise Reduction: 0
Gamma: FILM
-Curve type: -1
-Offset: 1
PureEngine: Everything OFF (especially PureMotion!!)
DynamicBlack: Cinema 1
Lens Iris: 3-6 (usually 4)

COLOR SETTINGS
Color Temp: D65
Color Gamut: Native
CMS: Nothing yet!!
Color Space: Auto
RGB Channel: Normal

RGB Gain/Bias
Red Gain: 1
Green Gain: -1
Blue Gain: 1

Red Bias: 0
Green Bias: -1
Blue Bias: -1




CMS would improve things further!
Thanks in advance...
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post #573 of 660 Old 04-11-2011, 07:56 PM
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1.11 PWP15 is still the latest one. That's the one I was giving out, it doesn't cure the 24fps but 60hz is still fine and you pick up CMS luminance and a less noticable Cin1 DI.

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post #574 of 660 Old 04-11-2011, 09:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarman View Post

1.11 PWP15 is still the latest one. That's the one I was giving out, it doesn't cure the 24fps but 60hz is still fine and you pick up CMS luminance and a less noticable Cin1 DI.

Has Firmware 1.1 definitely not fixed 24p? I was under the impression it had.

For instance, when my PS3 switches from 60p on the main menu to 24p when the Blu loads up, the HD86 loses sync for a moment, then locks to a new signal. The color wheel mucks about for about a second while it syncs, and "24p" is displayed on the OSD.
This is repeated switching back to 60p (or anything else).


Also, did I read that you'd done a full CMS calibration?
If so, any chance of grabbing your numbers?
If not, anyone else?
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post #575 of 660 Old 04-12-2011, 11:33 AM
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If the colorwheel is slowing down then you have the correct internals for the 24fps. I assume yours came from the factory with 1.11. I didn't mess with the CMS color points just tuned the grayscale. It's probably in my review thread. I do remember getting around 11000.1 on/off and about 4100.00 native out of it.

http://www.videodementia.com/sales/hd8600test2.jpg

http://www.videodementia.com/sales/hd8600nativecr.jpg

4000.1 native is pretty impressive, 0.003 black also. You'll notice in the native/cr test the light numbers are very high. That's because I moved the sensor 4' from the lens to get the most accurate reading.

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post #576 of 660 Old 04-12-2011, 05:54 PM
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Interesting that 1.1 is different if it comes pre-installed. I wonder why?

So yours doesn't behave the same way with 24p? What would it take to change this? A service by Optoma? If so, I'd say it's worth it...

Also, any idea if there may be another firmware coming? Not that it seems there's anything left to do...

Yep, those contrast stats are mighty fine, and the picture on this thing is just brilliant.

Image-wise, the only thing I'd like to improve upon is black level.
I'm currently using a matte-white 1-gain, but am looking into paint combo options to get a grey screen of about an N8.5 with gain to get the contrast up, and the white level where it is now (or maybe higher)...
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post #577 of 660 Old 04-12-2011, 09:13 PM
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They had an internal thing to add here in the USA which they would and did do. I don't think there's anything else to fix. The darker screen will give you the blacks the projector already is more than bright enough. It's worth a try.

I would have bought an HD8600 if it would fit 10/11 feet away from the screen so I'm limited now. Still miss the 3D (ansi) pop of the DLP.
enjoy

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post #578 of 660 Old 04-13-2011, 04:19 AM
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My HD86 projector returned from repairs with firmware 1.10 and I requested the latest firmware. So my guess is for the HD86 they cut off at 1.10 and from 1.11 and up it's the HD87
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post #579 of 660 Old 04-13-2011, 04:28 AM
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Well, my (Australian) HD86 came new with 1.1 loaded, so apparently not!
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post #580 of 660 Old 04-13-2011, 04:30 AM
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Has anybody done a CMS calibration here?
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post #581 of 660 Old 04-13-2011, 06:28 AM
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Scratching my head over Image Capture.

I'm trying to replace the Optoma startup screen with a test pattern, playing off my PS3 at 1080p/60... but it appears to be inactive!

This reviewer seems to have had the same problem...

"Startup Image.
The HD8600 allows the user to change the startup screen from the default “Optoma” screen to a User captured screen.
The Image Capture section lets you perform the screen capture. For some reason this function was grayed out and I could not get it to work."

Anyone?
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post #582 of 660 Old 04-14-2011, 10:39 AM
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I see that reviewer said there was no CMS luminance adjustment. He must have the older firmware. That's why he didn't even like cin1 DI. You're good to go with your machine showing color wheel changes with 24fps and luminance control on the CMS.

Do you find Cin1 DI very noticeable?

I found these numbers in my review thread, they're not mine.

Contrast -9, Brightness 1, Color 0, Tint 0, Sharpness 0

Advanced
Noise reduction 0, Gamma Standard

Pure Engine
PureDetail = 2, PureColor = off, PureMotion = medium (arguable),
Dynamic Black = off

Color Settings
Color TemperaturD65, Color Gamut HDTV

CMS: X-Offset / Y-Offset
Red -12/12, Green 2/4, Blue 0/0, Cyan -5/50
Magenta -21/-5, Yellow -7/-11

RGB Gain/Bias
Red 5/0, Green 2/0, Blue Gain 0/-5

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post #583 of 660 Old 04-14-2011, 07:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarman View Post

I see that reviewer said there was no CMS luminance adjustment. He must have the older firmware. That's why he didn't even like cin1 DI. You're good to go with your machine showing color wheel changes with 24fps and luminance control on the CMS.

Great!

Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarman View Post

Do you find Cin1 DI very noticeable?

Barely ever.
It's very good, and what I like most is that highlights are unaffected, unlike DI's from some other brands.

Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarman View Post

I found these numbers in my review thread, they're not mine.

Contrast -9, Brightness 1, Color 0, Tint 0, Sharpness 0

Advanced
Noise reduction 0, Gamma Standard

Pure Engine
PureDetail = 2, PureColor = off, PureMotion = medium (arguable),
Dynamic Black = off

Color Settings
Color TemperaturD65, Color Gamut HDTV

I'd say I disagree with almost all of those settings!
I set blacks by standing close to the screen and going back one notch after the black level starts to go grey. Noise will also creep in at this point.

Don't get -9 for Contrast. Whites only start to clip when you pass 0.

Putting up full-range RGB test patterns, red and blue blow out up the top end until you back Color down to -7. Then it's great.

PureMotion is absolutely ridiculous unless one likes to see films looking like they're shot on interlaced video cameras.
If the cameraman pans too fast now and then at 24p, that's life!

PureDetail might be worth a try out of curiosity, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarman View Post

CMS: X-Offset / Y-Offset
Red -12/12, Green 2/4, Blue 0/0, Cyan -5/50
Magenta -21/-5, Yellow -7/-11

RGB Gain/Bias
Red 5/0, Green 2/0, Blue Gain 0/-5

Pretty different Gain & Bias from what ProjectorCentral ended up with!
I might give it a try anyway, along with the CMS, although that would've been an older firmware...
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post #584 of 660 Old 04-19-2011, 02:56 PM
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I own an HD86 which came with firmware 1.1

Scratching my head over Image Capture.

I'm trying to replace the Optoma startup screen (with a focus test pattern, playing off my PS3 at 1080p/60)... but it appears to be inactive!

This reviewer seems to have had the same problem...

"Startup Image.
The HD8600 allows the user to change the startup screen from the default Optoma screen to a User captured screen.
The Image Capture section lets you perform the screen capture. For some reason this function was grayed out and I could not get it to work."

Thing is, I rang the local distributor, who successfully did it on their demo unit. Wierd.

Anyone?
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post #585 of 660 Old 04-19-2011, 08:47 PM
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Grayed out usually means certain input types. Try a different input connection.

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post #586 of 660 Old 04-21-2011, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarman View Post
Grayed out usually means certain input types. Try a different input connection.
Nup. I've tried different HDMI inputs, different sources, 50Hz, 60Hz, plugging the PS3 in directly.

So far, the only thing that works is setting the PS3 to 576p output.

The manual states...
support in:
HDMI 720p/1080p
VGA 1920X1080@60Hz
YPbPr 720p/1080p
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post #587 of 660 Old 04-29-2011, 04:51 PM
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Just a quick question for anyone using the Standard lens.

How's your focus uniformity?

I can never quite get all for edges in perfect focus.
At any zoom level, if I achieve perfect focus for the centre, I end up with the far left side very slightly out, and the bottom right corner noticeably out.
This is not really obvious on most film material, but a lot more so when a test pattern is up.

Thanks in advance...
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post #588 of 660 Old 08-14-2011, 02:59 PM
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Another lens question :


I would like to know from someone who uses the short throw lens:

Can you still use lens shift?

How is the optical quality? For photography, prime (non-zoom) lenses are most often much better optically.

What brand is the lenses that Optoma uses??
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post #589 of 660 Old 08-14-2011, 04:26 PM
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No that one is fixed / no shift. I could have had that lens but the projector would be lik 5 or 6 feet from the screen.

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post #590 of 660 Old 10-24-2011, 02:57 AM
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Does anyone have a recommendation for an ND filter for the HD87/8600????

With the latest pricedrop bringing the HD87 down to about 2700$, a non-3D projector is again on my interest list
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post #591 of 660 Old 04-19-2012, 07:21 AM
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What do you guys think about a refurb HD8600 for $1995?

http://www.consignia.ca/refurbished-...0-retail-hd86/
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post #592 of 660 Old 04-19-2012, 06:35 PM
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That price is a decent deal, you just have to weigh all the pro's/con's of that projector vs. others in its price range.

@Canary_Jules and others on the JVC
The JVC can be very tricky to get the gamma corrected in the calibration, it is more than likely not ANSI contrast you are seeing as much as it is gamma errors. Some of it might be partly ANSI contrast, but generally speaking here... It can be a frustrating experience to calibrate gamma on a JVC, especially since it can dramatically drift in only 50-100 hours of usage even after you just calibrated it.

I've had more than 10 different projectors in the last couple years and none of them have had gamma errors or gamma drift as large as the JVC I own, and as long as the room is pitch black, they all look somewhat similar in contrast in bright scenes if the GAMMA and calibrations are correct, some just calibrate better than others. It took me hours to fix my gamma on the JVC, now it looks about the same as my DLP. The problem is the gamma curves are backwards on the JVC's. People think those tiny bumps in the gamma don't matter, but they do even more so on a JVC. Also when a projector has higher native on/off contrast, it is much more sensitive to GAMMA errors because it has a larger range which make the GAMMA errors more of an eye sore regarding what will appear to be ANSI contrast.

Neither ANSI nor On/Off contrast truly measure a projector's capability at intrascene contrast and the balance is often somewhere between, so every projector will have different sweet spots. A projector could actually have higher contrast in a scene and make the scene look worse (I know this sounds counter-intuitive), it's because as MID-TONE contrast is darkened and the bottom is darkened, the perceptible punch of the scene can be altered even though the contrast was higher (and this is multiplied x10 for even tiny gamma errors). Truly judging small differences in bright scene intra-contrast shots requires 2 calibrations to be SO exactly equalized between two projectors and comparing MANY many different scenes with different contrast that is almost impossible to even do so accurately unless the difference is overwhelmingly huge (not quite impossible, but a real pain).

Reviewers often get it wrong as well, usually it's just the way the projector was calibrated and then the lamp wore in more than anything else. With the JVC's, it's because few take the time to get the gamma perfectly calibrated as per the native on/off.


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post #593 of 660 Old 04-19-2012, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grayson73 View Post

What do you guys think about a refurb HD8600 for $1995?

http://www.consignia.ca/refurbished-...0-retail-hd86/

The nfact there is a free standard lens included and a full 2 year warranty makes it an outstanding deal. Anything else comparable will not be found for 2K or less with the free lens and 2 year full warranty!
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post #594 of 660 Old 04-23-2012, 09:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pok3rpl8yer View Post

The nfact there is a free standard lens included and a full 2 year warranty makes it an outstanding deal. Anything else comparable will not be found for 2K or less with the free lens and 2 year full warranty!

Agreed, I did a review here on this projector, it's one of the best DLP's.

check this out
http://www.videodementia.com/sales/hd8600joker.jpg

Ok people didn't run to the boat when the price was 6k but at this low refurbed level they should.

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post #595 of 660 Old 04-25-2012, 09:04 PM
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Good morning from good old Germany !

Sorry about my bad english!

Now I am a proud owner of a hd 87 since 2 weeks ago.

It is the best PJ i have owned ever.

It is a great step up from the JVC HD350 which i owned before.

In Germany it was selled for 2000 with a standard lense.

The FW is 1.11 and now the service send me the actually version 1.6.

Did anybody around here know the difference between this two FW?

The service in germany can´t

Thank you

poem
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post #596 of 660 Old 04-27-2012, 06:05 PM
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Know this thread is older but interested to get opinions. Purchasing a projector to use with some ambient light with a Black Diamond screen and I've narrowed my choices down to these 3:

Projector: Cal. Lumens, Highest Useable, Native Contrast, DI Engaged
Optoma 8600: 945, 1200, 4000:1, 10,600:1
Panasonic PT-AE7000: 526, 1300, 3200:1, 60,000:1
Benq W7000: 1300, 1700, 3700:1? 45:000:1?

Usage will be 40% movies, 35% gaming, 25% TV. 3D isn't that important. I'm thinking the DLP's would give a sharper picture than the Panny and I was leaning towards the Benq but the seller didn't want to sell it to me due to the problems with needing firmware updates. Anyone happen to actually see more than one of these? I know it's contrast with the DI engaged isn't as strong as the other 2, especially on Cinema1, but I'm still betting the Optoma will produce the best picture. Thanks for any help you can offer!
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post #597 of 660 Old 05-23-2012, 06:36 PM
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Is this a good deal? Getting an Optoma HD8300 for $1,700 Manufacturer Refurbished with an option of an extended 3 years warranty for $175?

I was leaning towards HD3300 but can't find it; so searching I found this deal.
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post #598 of 660 Old 05-23-2012, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvoTuned View Post

Know this thread is older but interested to get opinions. Purchasing a projector to use with some ambient light with a Black Diamond screen and I've narrowed my choices down to these 3:

Projector: Cal. Lumens, Highest Useable, Native Contrast, DI Engaged
Optoma 8600: 945, 1200, 4000:1, 10,600:1
Panasonic PT-AE7000: 526, 1300, 3200:1, 60,000:1
Benq W7000: 1300, 1700, 3700:1? 45:000:1?

I don't know where those numbers came from, but you have to put them into perspective. First, the Benq w7000 cannot do 45,000:1 with the IRIS, it is more like 10,000:1 with the IRIS at best, and around 1,000:1 to 2000:1 without it.

The Panny 7000 in rec709 mode is more like 8000:1 at best WITH the IRIS, and 3000:1 without. Sure the Panny can go crazy dark in some less purist modes, but the IRIS will get all bouncy.

A B-STOCK Refurb RS-40 at farthest throw with lens aperture at -15 can do 50,000:1 with no IRIS, it can do it natively (it is the black level winner easily in this price range).

The next cheaper black level winner is a refurb or new Epson 8700ub, or Epson 5010.

Then you have the DLP's, like the Optomas. I don't know the exact native on/off of the hd8600, but at $2000 it's definitely worth considering for a refurb. It depends on preferences and your usage, I'm not sure what the gaming lag is on it though (maybe others know).


Quick and Easy Shelf Mount Method for both one projector or dual stacks

Web Calculator v023 & v025
- Quick Peak at the new upcoming calculator
**Current Projector Calculator** -- http://www.eliteprojectorcalculator.com

Coder's Top Projector Picks of 2012 --http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread....

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post #599 of 660 Old 05-25-2012, 09:50 AM
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Does anyone know, if the HD8600 (and HD87) are 100/120Hz DLPs??????
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post #600 of 660 Old 05-25-2012, 12:07 PM
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It has frame interpolation, so it must be 120hz.


Quick and Easy Shelf Mount Method for both one projector or dual stacks

Web Calculator v023 & v025
- Quick Peak at the new upcoming calculator
**Current Projector Calculator** -- http://www.eliteprojectorcalculator.com

Coder's Top Projector Picks of 2012 --http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread....

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Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

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