Official JVC RS25/HD950 Owners Thread! - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 1011 Old 03-09-2010, 06:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Nickoff View Post

Thanks Kelvin. If i stretch my budget to a RS25 and scope screen I wont have the $$$ for an a-lens.

This can be done with virtually any projector, and it is easier with the JVC's since they are motorized. Note though, it does limit the location you can put the projector in order to have enough zoom range to cover both your 2.35:1 and 16:9 screen sizes.
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post #362 of 1011 Old 03-09-2010, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by puccainbkk View Post

ivanpino very nice Screen shot

thanks
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post #363 of 1011 Old 03-11-2010, 04:23 PM
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I had not thought of this before... but my son and I on a service call today visited a home with a relatively high end HT. Problem was no power to the projector - a Sony. My son found a Tripplite UPS hidden above the PJ in the space between the drop ceiling and the floor above. The UPS was toast, hence no power to the Sony, so the immediate problem was solved. But his explanation was that whoever installed the UPS apparently intended it as a fall back lamp cool-down method if the commercial power went off while the PJ was on. Makes sense, but I wonder how much of an issue that is from the standpoint of shortening bulb life. Of course: 1) a high-end install will have high end amenities, hence the power "insurance", 2) much depends on the stability of the commercial power in the area. But given all that, I wonder if an occasional power interruption while the PJ was on would have a measurable effect on bulb life. Thoughts?
(This post is in the JVC subforum because I plan on purchased a HD950 at some point.)
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post #364 of 1011 Old 03-11-2010, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by SteveHorn View Post

I wonder if an occasional power interruption while the PJ was on would have a measurable effect on bulb life. Thoughts?

I have heard opinions offered that the cool-down period is so it can be re-struck soon after if desired; that a more rapid cool-down doesn't help bulb life. But it's just something I heard. I'd be interested in a definitive answer too.
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post #365 of 1011 Old 03-11-2010, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by erkq View Post

I have heard opinions offered that the cool-down period is so it can be re-struck soon after if desired; that a more rapid cool-down doesn't help bulb life. But it's just something I heard. I'd be interested in a definitive answer too.


Make NO MISTAKE about it, cutting the power on a HOT bulb shortens the bulb's life. I've been involved with all sorts of AV equipment for over 40 years and can tell you first hand that it matters. In fact, with some equipment, damage can even be done to the unit that the bulb is in, especially today with ALL THE PLASTIC PARTS they use.

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post #366 of 1011 Old 03-11-2010, 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted by techman707 View Post

Make NO MISTAKE about it, cutting the power on a HOT bulb shortens the bulb's life. I've been involved with all sorts of AV equipment for over 40 years and can tell you first hand that it matters. In fact, with some equipment, damage can even be done to the unit that the bulb is in, especially today with ALL THE PLASTIC PARTS they use.

Good to get a definitive answer. BTW, I LOVE the quote in your signature. I have a Choc Lab. What a funny, sweet, joyous guy! Dogs are great.
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post #367 of 1011 Old 03-12-2010, 12:49 AM
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Dogs are great.

Dogs are just little people in fur coats.....and probably smarter too.

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post #368 of 1011 Old 03-12-2010, 04:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Nickoff View Post

Anyone using an RS25 with a scope screen without an a-lens? Can this be done just using the zoom and lens shift and overshooting the black bars above and below the screen? (sorry for noob question).

There are many benefits to zooming.

http://homecinemaguru.com/?p=698
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post #369 of 1011 Old 03-12-2010, 04:44 AM
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Originally Posted by bobbi15 View Post

Hi all.
Interested in this projector (RS35 model). We read the Greg Rogers WSR article and its clear that this projector requires a lot of complicated tweaking/adjusting; meaning to spend this kind of money it makes sense to have it professionally callibrated by someone familiar with JVC projectors. Is there anyone on the Metro NY Tri-state area (NY, NJ, CT) that callibrates JVCs, perhaps as knowledgeable and skilled as Mr. Rogers?

I have worked on many. I am in the area today and will return in May.
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post #370 of 1011 Old 03-12-2010, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by umr View Post

I have worked on many. I am in the area today and will return in May.

On that note, I wanted to give a big shout-out to UMR who calibrated my RS 25 last night. I actually had used the THX mode until now and was quite happy with ituntil last night. The improvement is HUGE, the colors are now just spectacular and there is no question in my mind that it was the right call to have it calibrated by Jeff. He did a great job and was a lot of fun to hang out with as well. Highly recommended!
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post #371 of 1011 Old 03-12-2010, 09:16 AM
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I operated my RS-25 using the zoom method for a month or so before i installed my lens (prismasonic 5000R). Picture was fine but all the adjustments were a pain and i wonder about the longevity of the zoom mechanism as I watch about equal amounts of movies and television. Might be better if the projector had saved settings.

mike
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post #372 of 1011 Old 03-12-2010, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by KB1 View Post

On that note, I wanted to give a big shout-out to UMR who calibrated my RS 25 last night. I actually had used the THX mode until now and was quite happy with ituntil last night. The improvement is HUGE, the colors are now just spectacular and there is no question in my mind that it was the right call to have it calibrated by Jeff. He did a great job and was a lot of fun to hang out with as well. Highly recommended!

Thanks. It is fun bringing these to an incredible level of performance.
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post #373 of 1011 Old 03-12-2010, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by KB1 View Post

... I wanted to give a big shout-out to UMR who calibrated my RS 25 last night.

Thanks for your calibration report. I've included it in the front projection (Post#1) list that's linked at the bottom of my post.
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post #374 of 1011 Old 03-12-2010, 10:44 PM
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ok, please don't kill me. is there a firmware update available on the RS25, i know there is for the RS20.....

thanks
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post #375 of 1011 Old 03-13-2010, 01:13 AM
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ok, please don't kill me. is there a firmware update available on the RS25, i know there is for the RS20.....

thanks

I will allow you to live .....though (no pun intended) you might not want to, since there are NO firmware updates for the RS25/35, HD950/990 projectors, at this time.

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post #376 of 1011 Old 03-13-2010, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by techman707 View Post

I will allow you to live .....though (no pun intended) you might not want to, since there are NO firmware updates for the RS25/35, HD950/990 projectors, at this time.

Well, they don't really need one, right? I mean, what would it fix? The RS20's CMS needed fixing in a big way. And JVC stepped up to the plate and issued a fw update to do just that.
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post #377 of 1011 Old 03-13-2010, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by erkq View Post

Well, they don't really need one, right? I mean, what would it fix? The RS20's CMS needed fixing in a big way. And JVC stepped up to the plate and issued a fw update to do just that.


There are some people that feel the "Clear Motion Drive" should be able to handle film sources better, despite the fact that it's really not meant for film.

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post #378 of 1011 Old 03-13-2010, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by umr View Post

There are many benefits to zooming.

http://homecinemaguru.com/?p=698

Great read..........that's a significant drop in ANSI. Have you done any MTF tests with and without A-Lenses?

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post #379 of 1011 Old 03-13-2010, 05:31 PM
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Great read..........that's a significant drop in ANSI. Have you done any MTF tests with and without A-Lenses?

I get much different reading using my Minolta LS100 meter measuring ANSI CR (which IMHO is the best meter made for fl measurements. While the price is off the wall (especially with the electric sled) for the Schneider anamorphic lenses, the picture with the Schneider/ISCO lenses are FAR superior to zooming. Now the panamorph is a whole different story.

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post #380 of 1011 Old 03-13-2010, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by techman707 View Post

the picture with the Schneider/ISCO lenses are FAR superior to zooming.

So you don't think losing 1:1 pixel mapping hurts the image? The only reason I'd think denser pixels would be useful is if you are sitting close enough to see the native pixel structure. And even then an anamorphic lens will only help along one axis. The horizontal is still native pixels.

Another advantage to a high quality (expensive) anamorphic lens is brightness. But it seems these days it's cheaper to buy a bright enough projector (JVC, say) than a dimmer projector and an anamorphic lens. I can easily light up a 10' wide 16:9 1.1 gain screen with an RS20. So, you need greater than 10' wide for your 'scope movies?

I've never been clear what it is I've be missing by using the zoom method. People say "it looks better" but I've never been clear on how.
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post #381 of 1011 Old 03-13-2010, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by techman707 View Post

...........the picture with the Schneider/ISCO lenses are FAR superior to zooming. Now the panamorph is a whole different story.

Interesting.

I can see under certian circumstances where it can be superior and other circumstances where it is not.

If one sits at a distance where in the zoomed image, neither the interpixel gap nor panel noise is visible, I would say that the zoomed image is superior as no scaling artifacts nor softness is introduced. No additional glass is in the light path maintaining ANSI and MTF.

Sit closer where the interpixel gap and/or panel noise is visible, then softening due to scaling and MTF reduction due to the addition of an A-Lens will be beneficial.....but at a cost of a softer image, less ANSI and less fine detail due to MTF reduction..............a trade off that some will find totally acceptable in order to get greater immersion.....but it certianly won't be a sharper image than zooming.

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post #382 of 1011 Old 03-13-2010, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Highjinx View Post

Great read..........that's a significant drop in ANSI. Have you done any MTF tests with and without A-Lenses?

No, but it will not help.
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post #383 of 1011 Old 03-14-2010, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by erkq View Post

.....And even then an anamorphic lens will only help along one axis. The horizontal is still native pixels.

I not going to argue about what is just fact. However, your statement about what axis is helped is wrong. Note, that I said the Schneider anamorphic lens, which is horizontal expansion. You seem to be referring to the Panamorph, which is a whole other story.

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post #384 of 1011 Old 03-14-2010, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by techman707 View Post

I not going to argue about what is just fact. However, your statement about what axis is helped is wrong. Note, that I said the Schneider anamorphic lens, which is horizontal expansion. You seem to be referring to the Panamorph, which is a whole other story.

What erkq is referring to is that for the same size scope screen, the anamorphic lens will increase pixel density in the vertical direction only (1080 vertical lines) vs zooming (~800 vertical lines) regardless of what type/brand of lens is used. The horizontal pixel density is always 1920 horizontal lines for both lens and zoom.
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post #385 of 1011 Old 03-14-2010, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by ilsiu View Post

What erkq is referring to is that for the same size scope screen, the anamorphic lens will increase pixel density in the vertical direction only (1080 vertical lines) vs zooming (~800 vertical lines) regardless of what type/brand of lens is used. The horizontal pixel density is always 1920 horizontal lines for both lens and zoom.

Very clearly put. Thanks.
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post #386 of 1011 Old 03-15-2010, 12:53 AM
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Originally Posted by ilsiu View Post

What erkq is referring to is that for the same size scope screen, the anamorphic lens will increase pixel density in the vertical direction only (1080 vertical lines) vs zooming (~800 vertical lines) regardless of what type/brand of lens is used. The horizontal pixel density is always 1920 horizontal lines for both lens and zoom.


Not so clearly put at all. If you mean that all the vertical "panel" area (the full vertical 1080) that's different. However, that has no bearing on screen size at all. The only time comparing identical screen size becomes important is when comparing horizontal expansion anamorphic leneses, like the Schneider, to vertical compression lenses, like the Panamorph.

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post #387 of 1011 Old 03-15-2010, 05:30 AM
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Originally Posted by techman707 View Post

Not so clearly put at all. If you mean that all the vertical "panel" area (the full vertical 1080) that's different. However, that has no bearing on screen size at all. The only time comparing identical screen size becomes important is when comparing horizontal expansion anamorphic leneses, like the Schneider, to vertical compression lenses, like the Panamorph.

Pixel density is defined as # of pixels divided by some unit of dimension (i.e. size). Here is a general case that shows size has no bearing on the relative densities:

- The screen is H" x W"; aspect ratio = 2.4

Zoom:
- A zoom image is composed of 800x1920 pixels
- vertical pixel density = 800/H pixels per inch.
- horizontal pixel density = 1920/W pixels per inch.

Lens:
- A lens image is composed of 1080x1920 pixels
- vertical pixel density = 1080/H = 1.33x(800/H) pixels per inch
- horizontal pixel density = 1920/W pixels per inch.

Here is on specific example:

- The screen is 50" x 120"

Zoom:
- A zoom image is composed of 800x1920 pixels
- vertical pixel density = 800/50 = 16 pixels per inch.
- horizontal pixel density = 1920/120 = 16 pixels per inch.

Lens:
- A lens image is composed of 1080x1920 pixels
- vertical pixel density = 1080/50 = 21.6 pixels per inch
- horizontal pixel density = 1920/120 = 16 pixels per inch.

erkq's point is that while lens improves the vertical (21.6 > 16), the horizontal is unchanged (16=16). That is all he stated. You indicated that this is wrong, but erkq is 100% correct.

Note that in the above examples the type of lens (horizontal, vertical, Schneider, Panamorph) was never specified, because all lenses do the same thing: turn square pixels into rectangular pixels.

Are you still about what erkq was saying?
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post #388 of 1011 Old 03-15-2010, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilsiu View Post

Pixel density is defined as # of pixels divided by some unit of dimension (i.e. size). Here is a general case that shows size has no bearing on the relative densities:

- The screen is H" x W"; aspect ratio = 2.4

Zoom:
- A zoom image is composed of 800x1920 pixels
- vertical pixel density = 800/H pixels per inch.
- horizontal pixel density = 1920/W pixels per inch.

Lens:
- A lens image is composed of 1080x1920 pixels
- vertical pixel density = 1080/H = 1.33x(800/H) pixels per inch
- horizontal pixel density = 1920/W pixels per inch.

Here is on specific example:

- The screen is 50" x 120"

Zoom:
- A zoom image is composed of 800x1920 pixels
- vertical pixel density = 800/50 = 16 pixels per inch.
- horizontal pixel density = 1920/120 = 16 pixels per inch.

Lens:
- A lens image is composed of 1080x1920 pixels
- vertical pixel density = 1080/50 = 21.6 pixels per inch
- horizontal pixel density = 1920/120 = 16 pixels per inch.

erkq's point is that while lens improves the vertical (21.6 > 16), the horizontal is unchanged (16=16). That is all he stated. You indicated that this is wrong, but erkq is 100% correct.

Note that in the above examples the type of lens (horizontal, vertical, Schneider, Panamorph) was never specified, because all lenses do the same thing: turn square pixels into rectangular pixels.

Are you still about what erkq was saying?

No, I'm not confused, even though he didn't "say" what you're saying. All I was saying was that in order to calculate the ZOOM pixel density, it will HAVE TO BE different depending on what type anamorphic lens you are going to use. Why? In order to wind up with IDENTICAL screen sizes, you will have to zoom the lens to a SHORTER focal length (which would result in a lower pixel per inch density) if you are going to use a Panamorph that uses vertical crush to obtain the correct aspect ratio. Although you may say that the pixel density is "restored" after the vertical crush of the Panamorph lens, you then get into lens optics, which ultimately determines picture quality and which I'm not going to get into.

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post #389 of 1011 Old 03-15-2010, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by techman707 View Post

...All I was saying was that in order to calculate the ZOOM pixel density, it will HAVE TO BE different depending on what type anamorphic lens you are going to use. Why? In order to wind up with IDENTICAL screen sizes, you will have to zoom the lens to a SHORTER focal length (which would result in a lower pixel per inch density) if you are going to use a Panamorph that uses vertical crush to obtain the correct aspect ratio. Although you may say that the pixel density is "restored" after the vertical crush of the Panamorph lens, you then get into lens optics, which ultimately determines picture quality and which I'm not going to get into.

Perhaps it would be more convincing to you if you went through the exercise of working out the numbers.


Let's say we're at the longest end of the focal range. What is the pixel density? Use any screen size you want.

What is the pixel density when zooming to a shorter focal length (you claim it will be lower)?

What is the pixel density when using a horizontal expansion lens like the Schneider?

What is the pixel density when using a vertical compression lens like the Panamorph?
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post #390 of 1011 Old 03-15-2010, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by techman707 View Post

No, I'm not confused, even though he didn't "say" what you're saying.

I DID "say" what he's saying, though in terms of the end result, which is much simpler. However you get there, there you are. Envision a black box... you don't know how it works. All you can see is the screen. THAT is what's important. Take pixel density measurements off the screen and figure it out from there.
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Although you may say that the pixel density is "restored" after the vertical crush of the Panamorph lens, you then get into lens optics, which ultimately determines picture quality and which I'm not going to get into.

Indeed. "which ultimately determines picture quality" I agree completely. Get RID of it. That's why I prefer to remove anamorphic lens optics entirely... along with scaling and any aberrations they introduce. With bright projectors and 1x SW seating distance there's just no need anymore.

We don't do keystoning if we can possibly help it either. We run all our VP's at 1:1 when we possibly can.
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