Official JVC RS15/ HD550 Owner's Thread - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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Old 01-30-2010, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timoxx4 View Post

On the projector make sure the HDMI setting for input is set to Enhanced. You will find that setting just above the color space setting. I get the full 0-255 grayscale on mine but my green and red channels are clipping still. Not the blue or white ones though. Its the oversaturation of red and green that's inherent in these projectors that's doing that i believe.

Thanks Timoxx04
I found the source of the problem. I am going trough a T765HD for switching. If I connect the BluRay directly, I get the proper pattern. I guess NAD is doing something to the signal. I will ask on the T765 forum and NAD directly.

How many hours do you have on the projector? I found that after 50 hours or so, red and green became more acceptable. I don't know if this perception will be reflected in the clipping test.
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Old 01-30-2010, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timoxx4 View Post

On the projector make sure the HDMI setting for input is set to Enhanced. You will find that setting just above the color space setting. I get the full 0-255 grayscale on mine but my green and red channels are clipping still. Not the blue or white ones though. Its the oversaturation of red and green that's inherent in these projectors that's doing that i believe.

For any of you going trough a receiver for switching here is an answer I got from the NAD T765 forum, it might apply or not to your situation but it is still interesting..

"To answer your quote here is a quote from a representative at NAD. I will say that the representative is quite knowledgeable and I have absolute faith that he/she knows what he/she is talking about.

"It clearly states that for all video formats the video range MUST be restricted to bits 16 - 235 for 8 bit video. The range of 0 - 250 is only allowed for VGA computer video which we do not support (no connector for VGA).

The so called 'blacker than black' Pluge signal uses the bits below 16. We do not 'clip' them, we ignore them.

Using HDMI in and HDMI out, without any VXP adjustments, there will be no lost information or distortion or artifacts. You get out exactly what is put in. It is pixel for pixel transfer.

For calibrating the display, when available a signal generator is preferred- this is what we use to calibrate the VM200. It is far more accurate than a disc in player that can easily be out of spec.

To use the Blu-ray player to calibrate your plasma, the player should be connected directly to the display for the most accurate results."
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Old 01-30-2010, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vmann View Post

"It clearly states that for all video formats the video range MUST be restricted to bits 16 - 235 for 8 bit video. The range of 0 - 250 is only allowed for VGA computer video which we do not support (no connector for VGA).
The so called 'blacker than black' Pluge signal uses the bits below 16. We do not 'clip' them, we ignore them.

Interesting find,

I run all my sources through my Receiver via HDMI as well - a Yamaha RX-Z11. It had the same video "clipping" issue with HDMI as what you describe here. Enough owners of this $5K flagship receiver complained to Yamaha that they published a firmware upgrade that removed the restriction. The fix was validated by owners/calibrators etc.

I wonder why they/and others impose this, even on "HDMI pass-through only" etc?

Love DIY
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Old 01-31-2010, 02:20 AM
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Originally Posted by KJSmitty View Post

Interesting find,

I run all my sources through my Receiver via HDMI as well - a Yamaha RX-Z11. It had the same video "clipping" issue with HDMI as what you describe here. Enough owners of this $5K flagship receiver complained to Yamaha that they published a firmware upgrade that removed the restriction. The fix was validated by owners/calibrators etc.

I wonder why they/and others impose this, even on "HDMI pass-through only" etc?

Yeah i have a Yamaha RX3800 and am using the HDMI through it to my projector and found the same thing. I found a firmware update for it over on the German Yamaha site and that fixed it. So i can see the full pattern now using HDMI out of the AVR.
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Old 01-31-2010, 03:37 AM
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Originally Posted by vmann View Post

Thanks Timoxx04
I found the source of the problem. I am going trough a T765HD for switching. If I connect the BluRay directly, I get the proper pattern. I guess NAD is doing something to the signal. I will ask on the T765 forum and NAD directly.

How many hours do you have on the projector? I found that after 50 hours or so, red and green became more acceptable. I don't know if this perception will be reflected in the clipping test.

I have about 80 hours on my HD550 so far.

Yeah my Yamaha did the same till i got a firmware update for it. I guess you could always just connect your blu-ray directly to projector just to get the picture settings correct and then hook it back to the NAD once done and should be correct still. It just makes it easier if you can see all the below black stuff for calibration. Its not necessary for normal viewing just makes it easier to setup.
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Old 01-31-2010, 01:19 PM - Thread Starter
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If anyone is looking for an inexpensive way to mitigate the oversaturation of their RS15 or HD550, as well as getting a very sophisticated video processor / scaler, I am selling my Lumagen HDP for a low $385 shipped. Details on the product can be found here:

http://www.lumagen.com/testindex.php?module=hdp_details

Interested parties can send me a PM.

Kevin
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Old 02-01-2010, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timoxx4 View Post

I have about 80 hours on my HD550 so far.

Yeah my Yamaha did the same till i got a firmware update for it. I guess you could always just connect your blu-ray directly to projector just to get the picture settings correct and then hook it back to the NAD once done and should be correct still. It just makes it easier if you can see all the below black stuff for calibration. Its not necessary for normal viewing just makes it easier to setup.

I connected the BluRay directly, have been able to do calibration. I have no clipping in any channel. Skin tones are good without any yellow coloration some are reporting. I am using pretty much the factory setting except for brightness. I find blacks on this machine to be very good. So, I am very happy with my purchase and ready for the Super Bowl this weekend on a large screen.

I found, like previously said, that this projector needs several hours of use before colors get settle. When I first fired it up, red and green were way too dominant. It was impossible to get a proper skin tone.

Anybody else with a similar experience?
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Old 02-01-2010, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by vmann View Post

I connected the BluRay directly, have been able to do calibration. I have no clipping in any channel.

Interesting. I might have to try that myself and see if going direct solves my red and green clipping ? Trouble is i really need it connected to my AVR for all the other video sources.
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Old 02-01-2010, 11:21 PM
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Ok so going direct to PJ didnt offer me any diffrence over going through the AVR first.
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Old 02-03-2010, 01:41 AM
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Well i found my color clipping problem. All i had to do was turn down the color adjustment on the projector to -20 and that did it. Before my color was set to -5 and it looked fine and dandy. Seems if i want to not clip the red and green according to the Spears and Munsil disk then you need to turn the color adjuster way way down into the -20 and below territory.
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Old 02-04-2010, 07:56 AM
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I have been searching, but have not found anything. I know it has different contrast and ANSI, but what else. But what is end result of the picture quality?

Exactly what is the difference between the 550 and 750 besides $$ and is the extra $$ for the 750 worth it?

Edit: Is the difference between the RS15 and HD550 one for the US and the other is Europe? If so which is for where?

I have been looking at either the Mits HC6800 and Panny AE4000, but am wondering if the JVC would be better for the difference of $$?

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Old 02-04-2010, 08:59 AM
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I have been reading more about this PJ and realized that it does not have the 15 pin connection for a VGA from my HTPC. I believe I have a VGA to component cable that may work.

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Old 02-04-2010, 05:16 PM
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Is there a way to turn on and off the separate red, green and blue color channels on this PJ so you don't have to use the inaccurate color filters when using calibration DVD's ? Dose the service menu offer anything useful ?
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Old 02-05-2010, 01:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timoxx4 View Post

Is there a way to turn on and off the separate red, green and blue color channels on this PJ so you don't have to use the inaccurate color filters when using calibration DVD's ? Dose the service menu offer anything useful ?

Not in the HD350 model, so doubtful if theyv'e put it in the HD550. Anyway, there is little you can do to correct the colours of these models without an external VP/CMS so it's maybe a moot point anyway.

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Old 02-05-2010, 01:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Kelvin1965S View Post

Not in the HD350 model, so doubtful if theyv'e put it in the HD550. Anyway, there is little you can do to correct the colours of these models without an external VP/CMS so it's maybe a moot point anyway.

Thanks Kelvin for that.

So any idea how to set the "color" adjustment on these correctly ? I have the Spears & Munsil bluray and its telling me i am clipping red and green with my color set at -5. But using the blue filter and looking at the color bars it looks to be set correctly ? So i must be doing something wrong i think?
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Old 02-05-2010, 08:23 AM
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I have the previous HD350 model, though it is very similar. I used a Lumagen HDQ to improve the colour gamut, though now I'm waiting on my VideoEQ Pro to arrive, so I've just backed the colour off to -10 and tint to -4. If you are getting clipping, you may just have the main contrast too high or it could depend on which colour temp mode you are using. I use a custom colour temp and use an i1 probe to measure and correct the greyscale using the RGB controls and the custom gamma controls to correct the gamma. Once this is set correctly, it might be easier to set the colour control to avoid clipping. However you will never get the colour correct on this model without an external device like the HDQ/VideoEQ Pro/Radiance, so I wouldn't get too hung up about it, just enjoy.

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Old 02-07-2010, 10:29 PM
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im trying to output my pc to my rs15 using the video cards dvi output with a dvi - hdmi adapter. when i boot up my pc , the windows startup screen appears and shows the pc booting up, looks like its gonna work, but then before the pc is totally started up i lose the video signal?? and the screen goes blue(blank)

anyone know why the rs15 loses the signal from my pc?

my video card is an nvidia gtx295 running a 19 foot monster hdmi cable.
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Old 02-08-2010, 01:39 AM
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Originally Posted by mainly View Post

im trying to output my pc to my rs15 using the video cards dvi output with a dvi - hdmi adapter. when i boot up my pc , the windows startup screen appears and shows the pc booting up, looks like its gonna work, but then before the pc is totally started up i lose the video signal?? and the screen goes blue(blank)

anyone know why the rs15 loses the signal from my pc?

my video card is an nvidia gtx295 running a 19 foot monster hdmi cable.

What resolution is the PC set to? I have mine set to 1080/50p (also works for 1080/60p), but I'm using an ATi card and my HTPC goes through a DVDO Edge and a HDMI splitter first. It could just be the cable length or that it is combined with a DVI-HDMI adaptor (I know my old Lumagen HDQ didn't 'like' these adaptors and only seemed to work if using a proper DVI to HDMI cable).

Have you tried with a shorter cable and moving the PC nearer to the JVC if possible?

Also try using HDMI '2' ie the rear most one. Mine is a HD350, but the principle is the same.

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Old 02-08-2010, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mainly View Post

im trying to output my pc to my rs15 using the video cards dvi output with a dvi - hdmi adapter. when i boot up my pc , the windows startup screen appears and shows the pc booting up, looks like its gonna work, but then before the pc is totally started up i lose the video signal?? and the screen goes blue(blank)

anyone know why the rs15 loses the signal from my pc?

my video card is an nvidia gtx295 running a 19 foot monster hdmi cable.


I had exactly the same problem when I first tried to run my HTPC through my DVDO Edge. DVDO fixed the problem with a later firmware update... I was using an ATI 9800 Pro card set to output 1280x720 and for some reason the output was only being recognized during the initial boot screen which was 640x480.

Are you running through a switch or AVR of some type?

What resolution do you have the card set to? If you boot to a normal monitor and change the resolution to one the RS-15 supports that may eliminate your problem... if the problem is not in the handshaking between a switch of some type.

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Old 02-09-2010, 02:35 AM
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Originally Posted by HiHoStevo View Post

I had exactly the same problem when I first tried to run my HTPC through my DVDO Edge. DVDO fixed the problem with a later firmware update... I was using an ATI 9800 Pro card set to output 1280x720 and for some reason the output was only being recognized during the initial boot screen which was 640x480.

Are you running through a switch or AVR of some type?

What resolution do you have the card set to? If you boot to a normal monitor and change the resolution to one the RS-15 supports that may eliminate your problem... if the problem is not in the handshaking between a switch of some type.

thanks guys, it was the resolution. my pc was set to 1920 x 1200 and the projector wouldnt display anything. so i guess th ers15 only displays 1080? kinda sucks. the same thing happened to games when first loading them, lost video signal and had to restart the pc just because of it. hopefully changing the resolution set in the games to 1080 will correct that also.
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Old 02-09-2010, 10:51 AM
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Hey guys,

The "SCE" function in the service menu lets me adjust the "Range" and "Gain" individually for RGBCMY for each of the projector's cinema modes (except USER 1 and USER 2).

It looks very similar to the RS25/RS35 CMS, and even has a pause function and before/after checking. Obviously its not a hidden CMS because there aren't H/S/B controls? What is this for though?
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Old 02-09-2010, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by MacBuster View Post

ha.

I have still have no idea what he is trying to say, either. It's always best to just say what you are trying to say without over-complicating things.

Given th elack of responses and any sort of gaming discussion in this area, I think it is probably true that the Rs-15 is really the choice for dedicated movie watchers. Mixed-use might see other projectors being better.

i just got my rs15 and have been playing NEED FOR SPEED:SHIFT and CRYSIS and it looks freakin fantastic. even better than blurays. although im using the bluray player in my pc with an nvidia GTX295. not a dedicated bluray player. at the screen size i have (144 inch 2.35:1) there is some slight noise even with blurays. i watch from about 16-17 feet. but with games the image is vivid and sharp. blurays still look great, just not as amasing as games. as well im usually zoomig to 2.35:1 when watching blurays, and not when gaming. that may hve something to do with the picture difference??

does anyone know if the rs15 can be forced to accept higher resolutions? my video card will do 2500 by 1600.
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Old 02-09-2010, 10:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mainly View Post

does anyone know if the rs15 can be forced to accept higher resolutions? my video card will do 2500 by 1600.

Doubt it. For one thing it wouldn't add anything to the projector's value. It wouldn't look as sharp because there'd be scaling. Always best to stay with 1:1 pixel mapping.
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Old 02-10-2010, 12:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey, have any other RS15 owners popped for the very new (shipping yesterday) VideoEQ Pro? It is a tiny and cost-effective box that implements a full CMS as well as gamma/greyscale correction, but no scaling, noise reduction, etc. I ordered one and will be able to hook it up as soon as I return from Japan. It looks like a nice gamut/gamma/greyscale solution, and is a lot cheaper than a Radiance. Of course, one could argue that for the extra money one should simply have popped for the RS25 in the first place, but then I would have to mention how I came by my RS15...

The AVS thread starts here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1215902

Check out the Windows GUIs:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post18020331

Info on the product is here:
http://www.spectracal.com/VideoEq.html

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Old 02-10-2010, 12:46 AM
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Am interested but its still a bit too pricy for me considering i don't have a color meter or software either. If they where priced around the $500 mark then yes.

Let us know how it goes when you get yours up and running.
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Old 02-10-2010, 01:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin McCarthy View Post

Hey, have any other RS15 owners popped for the very new (shipping yesterday) VideoEQ Pro?

I've got one for my HD350. I was a beta tester, but the CMS function wasn't enabled at the time, due to a hardware issue: We had the option to send the beta units back for an upgrade to allow full CMS or to pay extra to upgrade to a Pro, so I went for the later option. It is hopefully shipping anytime now, but it might take a while to get to the UK.

I'll be posting some calibration results using it, I'm sure they'd still be relevant to HD550/RS15 owners.

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Old 02-10-2010, 09:33 AM
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Does anyone have some screenshots of the 550 connected to a CMS unit? I would think that the combo would be the equivalent to buying a 950 without the THX and ISF settings.
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Old 02-10-2010, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by MovieFan2009 View Post

Does anyone have some screenshots of the 550 connected to a CMS unit? I would think that the combo would be the equivalent to buying a 950 without the THX and ISF settings.

I'd hope it would be similar, but you should remember that the HD950 has 50,000:1 contrast compared to 30,000:1 contrast of the HD550, so there will still be a difference between these two options.

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Old 02-10-2010, 01:37 PM
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True, but would the color adjustment capability be similar?
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Old 02-10-2010, 01:39 PM
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Does anyone have a screenshot or two that will show what the 550/CMS unit combo looks like?
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