JVC DLA-RS15 vs DLA-RS25 for photographic images - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 9 Old 10-07-2009, 08:19 AM - Thread Starter
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I am a bit new to projectors, so sorry if something in my question sounds dumb...

I need a projector for watching movies in a dedicated theater room (13'x12.5', one row, pitch black room with Da-Lite high power screen). I also do photography work, and use projector to demo the images, which puts some specific requirements on the PJ - 1) very high single-frame contrast (I believe it is called ANSI contrast); 2) wide and uniform color gamut; 3) accurate colors

Based on feedback here and reviews on the net, I think JVC's new line is perfect for me. However, I am a bit puzzled as to whether the CMS features of the RS25 will be of any use for me. The thing is, color management is different in the photo world. We do not calibrate colors on the device to some specific standard, but leave them "native" to get the most out of gamut and contrast ratio. The only adjustments made on the device are usually white point and gamma, with the latter not necessary. After that, the ICM profile of the device (of course, custom made) takes care of all color matching.

So, if I understand everything correctly, in my scenario RS15 and RS25 would be identical in terms of color reproduction, as I would pretty much bypass any color settings on the device (except for white temp). Am I missing something? It just seems counter-intuitive that a projector with CMS does not give any advantages to a photographer...

There are still benefits of higher contrast and being able to calibrate colors for movies on RS-25 - I understand those. I just want to clarify if RS-25 has any advantages when I'm feeding a color-matched image from a computer to an ICM calibrated projector.

Thanks!
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post #2 of 9 Old 10-07-2009, 09:31 AM
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I don't think the HP screen will be a good match for your environment and needs. You'd want a low-gain matte-white screen, I'd think. Too bad there's not a color profile for the projectors, that I know of. Remember that your HD projector will just give you a 2 megapixel image; not that great for photos.

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post #3 of 9 Old 10-07-2009, 09:53 AM - Thread Starter
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I chose HP screen because some of viewings are with dim lights on - complete darkness promotes spilling of drinks or tripping over each other when guests rush to the screen to have a closer look... I have a portable matte white screen as a back up.

Regarding the resolution - there is never enough, but 4MP+ projectors are just out of the question (cost...), and 2MP calibrated picture is as close as I can get to making the actual life-sized prints. It works pretty well for showing finished work. I have means of calibrating a projector to produce a color management profile - the only inconvenience is that I'd need a different profile for each lightning level and screen surface, and lamp decay requires frequent re-calibrations.
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post #4 of 9 Old 10-07-2009, 12:50 PM
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... bump
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post #5 of 9 Old 10-07-2009, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cvye View Post

I don't think the HP screen will be a good match for your environment and needs. You'd want a low-gain matte-white screen, I'd think. Too bad there's not a color profile for the projectors, that I know of. Remember that your HD projector will just give you a 2 megapixel image; not that great for photos.

I've had the Hi Power with RS1, 2 and now the 25. One of the things I've enjoyed greatly and the combination is incredible for is viewing 1080P photos from this site, loaded onto my PS3. You can really play with your settings too, to see how they affect detail and shadows, etc with the great scenics found here. And they still look great with some ambient light if directed away from screen.

http://interfacelift.com/wallpaper_b...oads/date/any/
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post #6 of 9 Old 10-07-2009, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxl View Post

The thing is, color management is different in the photo world. We do not calibrate colors on the device to some specific standard, but leave them "native" to get the most out of gamut and contrast ratio. The only adjustments made on the device are usually white point and gamma, with the latter not necessary. After that, the ICM profile of the device (of course, custom made) takes care of all color matching.

How do you figure? You're still going to be getting the best possible gradiation off of any monitor or display by calibrating it as close as possible to the colorspace standard you are going to use.

These PJs do not have hardware LUTs (to my knowledge) and as such just relying on a monitor profile to accommodate a PJ that is significantly off from the colorspace you are planning to use will cause the image to suffer as the 8 bit processing in the gfx card is just going to be making more and more a shite of it the further off your display is.

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post #7 of 9 Old 10-07-2009, 02:09 PM
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In my experience it will work fine.
What color management software are you using?
To properly tame the gamut you will likely need a 3dLUT otherwise you will only be able to correct gamma and grayscale. ICC do claim to fully handle RGBHSI but I'm a bit sketchy on their performance in the real world.

Your probe/software may also have issues with metering the projector.You might be able to fudge this though.

I do recommend you calibrate the display hardware (again this may or may not be beneficial to the profiling).

I did post ome advice on a similar topic on here somewhere (I've calibrated literally thousands of displays using this technique).

I doubt any of the RS series are transparent to 8bit anyway so any precision limitations are likley to have minimal visual impact.

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post #8 of 9 Old 10-07-2009, 04:25 PM
 
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Interesting question.

One huge advantage something like the JVC has is that there is nothing temporally visible happening, such as a colorwheel on a single-chip DLP, or still dithering even on a 3-chip, which might be a concern if you're viewing still images rather critically, so you'll have to observe that yourself to judge.

However, the big weakness the JVC has is in ANSI CR. It's good, but a single-chip or even 3-chip DLP will be better in ANSI CR (but also more expensive for a 3-chipper). The JVC excels at on/off CR, which with still images will only be advantageous with images that are dark overall. The dynamic irises implemented on some DLP projectors will not really be advantageous to you since you are watching static images, in fact if you're viewing still images critically I predict you'd probably end up disabling any dynamic iris features if it was incorporate in a display anyway.
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post #9 of 9 Old 10-07-2009, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxl View Post

I am a bit new to projectors, so sorry if something in my question sounds dumb...

I need a projector for watching movies in a dedicated theater room (13'x12.5', one row, pitch black room with Da-Lite high power screen). I also do photography work, and use projector to demo the images, which puts some specific requirements on the PJ - 1) very high single-frame contrast (I believe it is called ANSI contrast); 2) wide and uniform color gamut; 3) accurate colors

Based on feedback here and reviews on the net, I think JVC's new line is perfect for me. However, I am a bit puzzled as to whether the CMS features of the RS25 will be of any use for me. The thing is, color management is different in the photo world. We do not calibrate colors on the device to some specific standard, but leave them "native" to get the most out of gamut and contrast ratio. The only adjustments made on the device are usually white point and gamma, with the latter not necessary. After that, the ICM profile of the device (of course, custom made) takes care of all color matching.

So, if I understand everything correctly, in my scenario RS15 and RS25 would be identical in terms of color reproduction, as I would pretty much bypass any color settings on the device (except for white temp). Am I missing something? It just seems counter-intuitive that a projector with CMS does not give any advantages to a photographer...

There are still benefits of higher contrast and being able to calibrate colors for movies on RS-25 - I understand those. I just want to clarify if RS-25 has any advantages when I'm feeding a color-matched image from a computer to an ICM calibrated projector.

Thanks!

Think of it as a computer monitor....if a computer monitor is way off, no matter whether you have a $10k camera, the image won't look right. Essentially the CMS will be important if you are trying to reproduce what was captured (I dabble in photography so I am used to trying to match printing to monitor, etc...). Key thing is you will have to figure out what standard to match colors too which might require some playing around.
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