Worth the money to upgrade? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 21 Old 10-24-2009, 12:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Curious what you guys think. I bought a JVC DLA-RS2 two years ago, used it, and love it. My dealer offered me to trade it in on the new model (Anthem 500) plus $1500. Now, the Anthem version comes with a half-off lamp coupon, plus the newer JCV projector is 50,000 contrast vs 30,000, it is THX certified (whatever that is worth), and has a higher lumen count (900) vs (600). The question is, is that worth $1500? Note: the lamp that is in my current RS2 is not even half-way used up.
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post #2 of 21 Old 10-24-2009, 01:55 PM - Thread Starter
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you will not notice the difference between 900 and 600 lumens

I called Dalite and Stewart screen companies and they both said that the 600 lumens is a problem with the room I am using (24 x 17). I called to inquire about increasing my screen size from 100 inches to 130 inches, and they both said that my current projector would not be sufficient for that screen size. They recommended a brighter lumen projector. Your thoughts?
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post #3 of 21 Old 10-24-2009, 03:40 PM
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I have the Pioneer PRO-FPJ1 (RS2 clone) and it's plenty bright in my bat cave projecting on a 9' wide (@123" diag) 16:9 2.8 gain DaLite HiPower. I believe my room has similar dimensions. I'm projecting from @ 14' away and I sit about 12'. When I say bat cave, I mean total light control with dark burgandy carpets and walls with flat black ceiling. I think the picture is plenty bright with great shadow detail and nice blacks. It works well for me. YMMV.

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post #4 of 21 Old 10-24-2009, 03:48 PM
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Why are you using 2.8 gain in a bat cave at that size image?

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post #5 of 21 Old 10-24-2009, 05:09 PM
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Contrast is not the only item in "better picture" of course!

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post #6 of 21 Old 10-24-2009, 06:03 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elmalloc View Post

Why are you using 2.8 gain in a bat cave at that size image?

Because he likes a brighter image.
I've used one and like it a lot. Why do you question what someone else likes?
He said, "It works well for me".

This is not meant in a negative tone. FYI.

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post #7 of 21 Old 10-25-2009, 05:04 AM
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I could be wrong, but I also understand that the RS2 only has one set of RGB controls rather than two of the later models (brightness and contrast, ie high end and low end), plus the more advanced gamma controls on the newer models.

Zooming: Been there, done that, bought the lens...
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post #8 of 21 Old 10-25-2009, 05:21 AM
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Many in here have been JVC loyalists for a long time. I have not been one of them. I didn't care for the first two residential projectors from them because the colors sent me into shock being so oversaturated unless you spent (over $1500) a lot on a good processor with a good CMS. The jump to the RS20 (Anthem) from your current projector would be most significant (in my opinion) in the accuracy of the colors being projected. Since you have owned an RS2 perhaps you are used to the saturated look and now prefer it. The good news is you can "soup" up the RS20 to have that same look if you desire and still have more lumens to play with. I would say go for it. Getting a quality projector like that for a trade and $1500 sounds like a pretty good deal.
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post #9 of 21 Old 10-25-2009, 05:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elmalloc View Post

Why are you using 2.8 gain in a bat cave at that size image?

Because that's the gain of a HiPower screen. I purchased it years and several projectors ago and still enjoy the benefit of the increased gain without hotspotting, etc. I didn't change screens when I changed PJs. The HiPower is a fantastic screen and still works very well with my Pioneer RS2 clone.

I don't consider a bat cave as something that negates increased brightness and screen gain. For me, it's a requirement for improved blacks and shadow detail by reducing ambient light and reflections.

YMMV, but I love this PJ and screen combination. I'll be hanging onto the HP until I ever decide to go to a 2.35:1 setup.

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post #10 of 21 Old 10-25-2009, 06:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patricksull View Post

The question is, is that worth $1500? Note: the lamp that is in my current RS2 is not even half-way used up.

That depends on your individual preferences and financial situation. The RS20 is an upgrade, especially because of the CMS. However, you have to figure out what you could sell your RS2 for, then add $1500 to that and then compare that amount to a new RS15 or RS25 from AVS. It may be worth it for you to spend more for the latest JVC. You should at least consider it as another option if you're considering an upgrade.

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post #11 of 21 Old 10-26-2009, 08:39 AM
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To be fair to get 900 lumens out of the new JVC you need to open the iris to max. at which point you are not getting 50K:1. It seems most people run it somewhere in between.

RS2 has a static iris build in, it can be modded to put out a lot more lumens.

Back to the original Q. however.
Assuming the Anthem is a rebadged RS20/25 with full CMS then it's a no brainer. You can't get a CMS control for under 3K, plus you get extra bulb for half price.

You get iris control, lens cap and a cute THX logo. Personally I am happy with my RS2 since I have almost perfect panel convergence and I never bought into Reon being better then Gennum. (Sorry, Canadian patriotism.)

But if someone offered me a trade in for 1.5K, I'd jump on it. Even better if I could preview the unit to make sure it has good shading and convergence.
I guess Anthem is a uber brand as well
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post #12 of 21 Old 10-26-2009, 11:15 AM
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IMO the difference between an optimized RS2 and an optimized RS20 is large enough that I would upgrade if you have a good viewing environment. If not neither will look that great.

I will probably upgrade from the RS20 to the RS35, but I do not expect the difference to be as great at the jump from an RS2 to and RS20.

W. Jeff Meier


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post #13 of 21 Old 10-28-2009, 08:03 AM
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I owned an FPJ1 - RS2 clone - and used my Radiance XD to calibrate the greyscale, gamma, and gamut. The 11-point parametric RGB gamma adjustments on the RS2 can be used to calibrate the greyscale, if you are careful. There is no internal control that allows you to adjust the gamut properly since not all the colors are equally oversaturated (and the color control adversely affects the lightness of colors anyways). Red is the most egregious color by far, followed by green and then blue. Because I was used to the colors of my non-calibrated RS2, I never realized how far off the colors were - and that's just the adaptive nature of human vision. However, once I dailed in the gamut I was much, much happier with the picture than I was the non-calibrated one. Now I am very sensitive to oversaturated colors (or poor greyscale) because I'm so used to watching a properly calibrated picture. So no one is saying that the RS2 looks like crap, but once you've gotten used to a "correct" picture, its larger gamut is very noticable. The oversaturated colors were a well-known shortcoming of the RS2 when people bought it, but owners lived with it because no other manufacturer could touch its native CR and still output anywhere near as many lumens. Or they went out and bought a Radiance like me.

So, given that the RS2 is currently going used for around $2500, you'd have to pony up at least another $2K to get your hands on an RS20/LTX500 if you bought one outright. The $1500 that your dealer wants to upgrade you to the LTX500 is therefore very reasonable. Your only other option would be to find a used Lumagen HDP (which is hard to find and will run you between $500 and $700) to calibrate the RS2's gamut, but that only adjusts primaries and you don't get the higher light output or better blacks of the LTX500.

In that vein, if you compare the light output vs. CR numbers from the cine4home reviews for both projectors, it's very apparent that for a given CR, the LTX500 can put out significantly more light than the RS2 (or conversely, for a given light output, the LTX500 has notably better CR than the RS2).

Having actually seen and lived with an RS2 (and waiting for my RS35 to arrive), I can tell you that the difference between calibrated and non-calibrated gamut alone are not trivial. Add that to the rest of the improvements in the LTX500 over the RS2 - firstly light output and then CR - and $1500 is a great deal and a no-brainer.

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post #14 of 21 Old 10-28-2009, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patricksull View Post

Curious what you guys think. I bought a JVC DLA-RS2 two years ago, used it, and love it.

Some of you are missing one important point that the OP stated. He "loves" his RS2. I would therefore speculate that, like me, he finds the colors to not be that significant of an issue. At least not one that has pressed him to upgrade in the last two years. Now a good deal has come along whereby he'll be able to trade up for $1500. That upgrade will buy him another Dila PJ with a CMS and some better specs. Basically, the next generation of JVC from the RS2.

To make that leap, he needs to take a few things into account. Namely, can he sell his RS2 and what will he get for it. Compare that figure plus the additional $1500 to what an RS20 or RS25 go for. His call will be to upgrade to either model or save the $1500 and wait for an even bigger leap in technology. That's his real desicion. Since he's guaranteed to offload the older RS2 without any hastle selling it that needs to come into play as well.

In my case, if someone offered to take my RS2 clone plus $1500 for a new RS20 clone, I'd probably do it. I only paid $2500 for it new, so I'd be spending $4K for a new RS20 clone. That's worth the upgrade as it's probably cheaper than I could buy one outright and certainly less than a new RS25. However, I still find my FPJ1 to be very satisfying and don't feel any pressing need to upgrade as this time.

As for the gamut argument, yes the RS2 is off, but no, it's not terrible. Get the grayscale right, tone down the reds and it's not bad. Certainly not as horrible as some posters make it sound. Geez, back in the day, the RS2 was highly touted. A lot of AVS posters are pretty sad in their elitism, have very short memories, or both.

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post #15 of 21 Old 10-28-2009, 08:08 PM
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Thanks for the house keeping.
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post #16 of 21 Old 10-28-2009, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by chadly25 View Post

Thanks for the house keeping.

wow, the majority of the posts were scrubbed and it looks like chadly was banned . . . were we that offensive? i apologize!

personally i think that's a pretty fair offer especially to not have to deal with selling your existing projector.
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post #17 of 21 Old 10-29-2009, 03:49 AM
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Originally Posted by drewski11 View Post

wow, the majority of the posts were scrubbed and it looks like chadly was banned . . . were we that offensive? i apologize!

personally i think that's a pretty fair offer especially to not have to deal with selling your existing projector.

They didn't ban me
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post #18 of 21 Old 10-29-2009, 07:38 AM
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They didn't ban me

i'm gullible. i believed the "Membership Revoked" statusing!
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post #19 of 21 Old 10-29-2009, 07:44 AM
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The whole thread was turning into a giant argument and getting off topic so rather than closing it fully, we cleaned it up as to allow the original poster to get help. No one was banned.
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post #20 of 21 Old 10-29-2009, 08:31 AM
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I was one of the few that got to see your last post before it was cleaned. I was going to give you an attaboy but I guess I can't now.
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post #21 of 21 Old 10-29-2009, 08:36 AM
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