Projectors and LAG times!!! - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 57 Old 03-20-2010, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian McKay View Post

ViewSonic Pro8100:

HDMI PS3 to Onkyo 876 to the projector - 19-21mS
HDMI PS3 direct to the projector - 15-17mS

tested on Rock Band

Wow, that's great! I wouldn't have thought to consider that the 8100 might be a fast projector, because of the Reon chip, but I guess Reon can make them fast too, as long as it doesn't have all sorts of fancy and unnecessary picture processing features.
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post #32 of 57 Old 03-20-2010, 09:28 AM
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From what I understand VGA is better then HDMI for the 360 when it comes to gaming
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post #33 of 57 Old 03-20-2010, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Deuce View Post

Wow, that's great! I wouldn't have thought to consider that the 8100 might be a fast projector, because of the Reon chip, but I guess Reon can make them fast too, as long as it doesn't have all sorts of fancy and unnecessary picture processing features.

I should note that the Pro8100 is not doing any conversion. Conversion (720p to 1080p) in the Onkyo (also a Reon chip) and when direct, through the PS3 upscaling. The Reon in the 8100 is disabled.
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post #34 of 57 Old 03-22-2010, 10:13 AM
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I'm a Pro8100 owner as well, and avid gamer, and can confirm Brian's times. I tried the Rock Band test on my PS3 through my Denon 1910 (no overlay) and I come in right at 17ms with the Reon disabled. When I enable it, I'm coming in at 23ms - 25ms, which still is quite respectable and probably wouldn't even be noticed by all but the most sensitive FPS twitch types.

Keep in mind that not all Reon's are created equal... The Pro8100 uses the HQV VX-210 (highest end Reon VX chip made). I think the only other projectors to use this same chip are the new JVC RS25 and RS35. The Reon equipped Epson and Mits models are using the chip that is one step down (VX-200). Many of the Reon equipped AVRs and Blu-Ray players are using the VX-50/51 chips, which aren't nearly as good, and I'm guess that was what was causing the lag in previous testing due to the single channel versus the two independent channels in the 200 series.
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post #35 of 57 Old 03-22-2010, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damess View Post

From what I understand VGA is better then HDMI for the 360 when it comes to gaming

If you're a fan of washed out colors, sure!

Seriously, I have no idea what this is based on.
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post #36 of 57 Old 03-22-2010, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Rider View Post

I tried the Rock Band test on my PS3 through my Denon 1910 (no overlay) and I come in right at 17ms with the Reon disabled.

Man, you guys are telling me exactly what I wanted to hear. I'd heard before that the Denons with no overlay added no lag, but just passed the signal on to the projector, and it's nice to have confirmation. So, it looks like it's going to be the 8100 and the 1910 for me.
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post #37 of 57 Old 03-22-2010, 03:55 PM
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I couldn't be happier with both the Denon and the VS. Both have been flawless, and no HDMI issues to speak of either.
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post #38 of 57 Old 03-28-2010, 05:28 PM
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Any updated numbers on the Epson 8500ub? Hopefully someone tests it with all the FI/bells and whistles OFF!!
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post #39 of 57 Old 04-06-2010, 05:03 PM
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I know nothing about Rock Band. If I was to buy Rock Band used to test my projector, do I just need a disc and guitar controller? Could I use a cheap used aftermarket guitar like from madcatz? Do I need Rock Band 2, or does the first Rock Band have the lag tester?

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post #40 of 57 Old 04-06-2010, 05:56 PM
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You need Rock Band 2 and a RB2 guitar for the auto calibration. Mad Catz makes some guitars with the auto calibrator but they are more expensive than the standard RB2 wireless strat.

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post #41 of 57 Old 04-06-2010, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Rider View Post

I'm a Pro8100 owner as well

Hi Dark Rider,

How is motion blur on your LCD-based Pro8100 when playing games? On my flat panel Samsung LCD TV, with all dejutter processing disabled, the motion blur in gaming is really bad...spin around in a FPS game and the background just turns to mush. LCD seems to be an inherently poor technology for gaming. I'm making plans for my front projector setup and I like some of the benefits of an LCD-based projector, but am really worried about motion blur...
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post #42 of 57 Old 07-12-2010, 12:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NABCS View Post

Any numbers for Mits HC3800 (DLP) ?


I'm also interested in the HC3800 numbers. Are DLP or LCD projectors generally faster for gaming?
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post #43 of 57 Old 07-14-2010, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Miller View Post

Hi Dark Rider,

How is motion blur on your LCD-based Pro8100 when playing games? On my flat panel Samsung LCD TV, with all dejutter processing disabled, the motion blur in gaming is really bad...spin around in a FPS game and the background just turns to mush. LCD seems to be an inherently poor technology for gaming. I'm making plans for my front projector setup and I like some of the benefits of an LCD-based projector, but am really worried about motion blur...

Sorry for the delay, must have missed this post. Motion blur associated with gaming is not a problem for LCD projectors in my experience. Keep in mind that the 3LCD technology is quite different from that used in flat panel displays.
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post #44 of 57 Old 07-14-2010, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBQ7 View Post

I'm also interested in the HC3800 numbers. Are DLP or LCD projectors generally faster for gaming?

In terms of input lag, I don't know that we've seen a conclusive trend one way or another between the technologies in a front projection environment. I'm guessing it's more processor than technology dependent, as evidenced by the numbers in several threads. Personally, I would think that mirror based technologies (DLP and LCOS/SXRD) would be at a disadvantage in a real-time gaming environment, but again there are gamers that are quite happy with their DLP and LCOS machines. I don't think you're going to find any conclusive evidence one way or another, so buy the machine that you prefer.
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post #45 of 57 Old 07-19-2010, 12:40 AM
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I found this on the Epson 8500 vs Panasonic AE4000


"The AE4000 has a "Frame Response" feature that does not exist on the 8500. When this is activated, frame delivery is noticeably improved over anything the 8500 can deliver. For gamers who want the least delay possible, the AE4000 has the advantage. On the other hand, if your games provide the ability to compensate for video delay, this advantage is of little importance. And even with Frame Response on "fast," there are projectors which are just a hair faster--for example, the Optoma HD20 will get a frame of video to the screen a tiny fraction of a second faster than the AE4000 in its fast Frame Response mode."
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post #46 of 57 Old 01-13-2011, 03:34 PM
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RS1 vs my Dell Studio XPS laptop monitor

Projector in back




RS1 seems to be 50ms faster ?!
Edit: No - i had it backwards

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post #47 of 57 Old 01-13-2011, 04:26 PM
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The higher time is the faster one since that clock info is getting to the screen faster.

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post #48 of 57 Old 01-13-2011, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoreyM View Post

The higher time is the faster one since that clock info is getting to the screen faster.

Yeah -- i have no idea why i thought the opposite.... I was getting times on my RS40 and saying "why is the RS40 so much slower than the RS1" and then i realized I read the number for the RS1 backwards

This means the RS1 has an input lag of 50ms compared to laptop... The RS40 so far seems to be worse...about 60-80ms... will post more later...

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post #49 of 57 Old 01-16-2011, 07:57 AM
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RS40 lag times...




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post #50 of 57 Old 01-16-2011, 08:20 AM
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Thanks for measuring the new JVC. About 100ms doesn't seem too bad. It may be much for competetive gamers though.
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post #51 of 57 Old 01-16-2011, 04:38 PM
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1/10 th of a second seems pretty good. Of course, in comparison to some of the faster units here it seems a lot!

Still, I've played racing games with worse (ie, thru my old Vantage HD from analog XBox 360 connection) - I should hook some of that stuff back up for a comparison!

I would love to see a measurement with Frame Interpolation turned on for the heck of it.

Anyone know of an on screen timer that could be used for this instead of having to run the game?
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post #52 of 57 Old 01-16-2011, 05:09 PM
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I GOT it!!

I found a simple downloadable stopwatch that does 100ths of a second.

http://www.keithv.com/software/stopwatch/

I ran a virus check on it after I downloaded, and it was fine, but I always recommend that everyone always check before running a new download.

It works great - will be doing some testing! This will help with the 3D thread too
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post #53 of 57 Old 02-01-2011, 05:05 PM
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Times for JVC RS40:

Pic one, without FI - 0.06 seconds. That 6/100 ths of a second

Pic two, with FI on 4 (maximum) - 0.06 seconds again.

I had another shot where it was .07 but it was very blurry.

I'm pleasantly surprised.

EDIT - I rather suspect that the lag with FI turned on would be higher if there was actually some movement in the screen.
LL
LL
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post #54 of 57 Old 02-01-2011, 05:23 PM
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JVC HD550

Pic one, FI off - 0.06 seconds again

Pic two, FI "high" (max) - 0.07 seconds

60 and 70 milliseconds respectively.

EDIT - I rather suspect that the lag with FI turned on would be higher if there was actually some movement in the screen.
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post #55 of 57 Old 02-01-2011, 05:52 PM
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I want to see the lag times between the AE-4000 and the 8700UB. Anyone have that?
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post #56 of 57 Old 02-01-2011, 06:08 PM
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JVC HD2K

Connected directly to laptop without the old Faroudja outboard processor (haven't used that box in years)

Two pics, showing same result. 0 milliseconds delay.

I love this old pj. Look how small and tidy it is, and check out the pop out handle on the side. I still carry this with us when taking the kids to the seaside, to show movies outside.
LL
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post #57 of 57 Old 02-14-2011, 10:16 AM
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Methodology

Created custom program to clock ms, download source (no executable) from here.

Both digital outputs from PC, AMD Radeon 6950

Reference Monitor: Samsung SyncMaster 997 CRT

Results

THX
83
88
60
70
83

THX + CMD
91
80
83
86
91

Film

82
88
73

Cinema
80

User 1
79
83

Thoughts:
It appears that all modes are about the same, showing ~80 ms lag. CMD does not seem to introduce any large penalties.

Images






LL
LL
LL
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