LG CF3D. First Full HD 3D projector announced. It's LCOS! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 185 Old 01-06-2010, 09:11 AM - Thread Starter
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http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/06/l...s-and-more-at/

CF3D - More Life-Like Viewing

LG's versatile CF3D is the world's first Full HD Single Lens Type 3D Projector featuring an amazing brightness rating of 2,500 ANSI-lumens and a high contrast ratio of 7,000:1. This model also features TruMotion 120Hz for smoother images - a technology previously only seen on flat panel HDTVs.



LG's CF3D enhanced technology gives consumers a more life-like viewing experience. Incorporating both Dual Engine and 3D Auto Picture Calibration technology, the CF3D offers superb color correction to help ensure images are displayed naturally. HDMI upscaling on the CF3D reduces on-screen color banding, providing smoother tonal transitions and more subtle gradation between colors. Specifications include:

· 0.61-inch SXRD

· Full HD 1080p (1920x1080)

· 3D Auto Picture Calibration

· Dual Engine

· 2 HDMI 1.3, USB Input

· ISFccc

· Real Cinema
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post #2 of 185 Old 01-06-2010, 09:46 AM
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Can someone help me understand what I'm getting with these new 3D HDTVs and Projectors that I'm not getting on my Monsters vs. Aliens Blu Ray and my Epson HD projector?

I'm guessing that these new displays aren't showing 3D in stereoscopic (which is what the current blu-rays are in)? Do you just use a different kind of glasses (shutter)? And the new 3D blu rays will have this shutter 3d content and not stereoscopic?

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post #3 of 185 Old 01-06-2010, 10:22 AM
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Price man.. Price!?!?!?
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post #4 of 185 Old 01-06-2010, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by browerjs View Post

Can someone help me understand what I'm getting with these new 3D HDTVs and Projectors that I'm not getting on my Monsters vs. Aliens Blu Ray and my Epson HD projector?

I'm guessing that these new displays aren't showing 3D in stereoscopic (which is what the current blu-rays are in)? Do you just use a different kind of glasses (shutter)? And the new 3D blu rays will have this shutter 3d content and not stereoscopic?

MvA is Anaglyph, with dual color lenses.. That is is really old 3D tech of yesteryear

New 3D uses either active shutter glasses or polarization, which this will support.

Check out Avatar to see what a difference it makes.
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post #5 of 185 Old 01-06-2010, 11:02 AM
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Why does it have HDMI 1.3 instead of 1.4?
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post #6 of 185 Old 01-06-2010, 11:27 AM
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It appears that since this new LG will have "dual engines" we should assume that it will use polarization to separate the right and left images meaning the user will need simple polarized glass rather than LCD shutter glasses.

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Originally Posted by Darth Indy View Post

Why does it have HDMI 1.3 instead of 1.4?

If it really only has HDMI 1.3 this may limit it to accepting only dual 1080p/24 streams while the new BD spec. for 3D allows for both dual 1080p/24 and dual 1080p/60 output streams.

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post #7 of 185 Old 01-06-2010, 11:32 AM
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Dual engines.. Somehow i dont see this being sub $5K..
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post #8 of 185 Old 01-06-2010, 11:43 AM
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Maybe. Their CF181 SXRD is $2499.
link
Dual would be $4998

On a side note, the reviews of the 181 didn't make it seem any better than "average" (except for being very bright). So two 181s would still be "average", right? Now, the question is; is an "average" 3D pj (in the $5K range) better than a good 2D pj in the same price range (something like the JVC RS15)? Better put, is an average 3D picture better than a good 2D picture?
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post #9 of 185 Old 01-06-2010, 03:22 PM
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This is just fabulous news. Great to see a front PJ manufacturer out there front and center with a single-lens 3D PJ that does full 1080p. The dual-engine is great as it will mostly likely mean "constant-on" for both left and right eyes... which takes away almost all eye fatigue with 3D using polarized glasses. This is an important point, because single-engine PJs could still use polarized light via an alternating (or rotating) filter that would still create a left-right-left-right alternation to the image even with polarized eye wear. "constant on" left/right is the way to go for viewing comfort.

My only question is as others have said... no HDMI 1.4? Perhaps the dual HDMI 1.3 means that one HDMI input is for the left eye and one for the right? Or perhaps there's an agreed upon way manufacturers are going to "pack" two 1080p24 streams into a single 1080p60 stream over one HDMI 1.3 carrier that then the PJ would analyze and split apart (analgous to the way we use 3-2 cadence recognition to deinterlace video back to true progressive frames)?

Want to find out more! And oh yes, the price...

If only it were LED!

Quote:
On a side note, the reviews of the 181 didn't make it seem any better than "average" (except for being very bright). So two 181s would still be "average", right? Now, the question is; is an "average" 3D pj (in the $5K range) better than a good 2D pj in the same price range (something like the JVC RS15)? Better put, is an average 3D picture better than a good 2D picture?

since the only thing that 3D adds is 3D, it's just another criteria that will have to balance among all the others. Some folks worship black level, others sharpness, others color accuracy, others lack of dithering and rainbows... and most folks prioritize all of these things to some degree with some ranking higher and lower on their scale of what they care about most. 3D is just a new aspect of image criteria to add to the list. For some (like me), the lack of 3D at this point would mean no-sale... but (like me) that does't mean I'd buy a substandard picture just because it was 3D... I want it all.

1080p and lossless audio. EVERY BD should have them both.
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post #10 of 185 Old 01-06-2010, 03:28 PM
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I'm glad to see this, but from the picture it looks like no lens shift and for the setup I would most likely play 3D in my projector ends up close to the middle of the screen. So, I suspect I'll be looking elsewhere, but still like seeing more options out there.

I'm also wondering whether the 7k:1 on/off is dynamic or native.

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post #11 of 185 Old 01-06-2010, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet View Post


since the only thing that 3D adds is 3D, it's just another criteria that will have to balance among all the others. Some folks worship black level, others sharpness, others color accuracy, others lack of dithering and rainbows... and most folks prioritize all of these things to some degree with some ranking higher and lower on their scale of what they care about most. 3D is just a new aspect of image criteria to add to the list. For some (like me), the lack of 3D at this point would mean no-sale... but (like me) that does't mean I'd buy a substandard picture just because it was 3D... I want it all.

Include brightness into that list and I'm with you. Plus, I'd have to be at a natural upgrade point in regards to life and use of the gear I have before I'd shell out for a new projector and receiver.

We took a step backwards in black level going from CRT to digital. I'm not ready to make the quality sacrifices that I've seen at the theaters (and yes I did see Avatar) just to get 3D. 3D would merely be a nice "add on" to a new projector and receiver to me.

See ya. Dave

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post #12 of 185 Old 01-06-2010, 09:05 PM
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Polarized 3d has been around forever (Captain EO, epcot center, remember that?) Why is it all the sudden getting so much attention? I saw final destination in 3D, and it seemed to be the same tech that I remember from a while back. Muppets in 3D at Disney MGM (at the time) comes to mind as well.
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post #13 of 185 Old 01-06-2010, 09:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbaseuser View Post

Polarized 3d has been around forever (Captain EO, epcot center, remember that?) Why is it all the sudden getting so much attention? I saw final destination in 3D, and it seemed to be the same tech that I remember from a while back. Muppets in 3D at Disney MGM (at the time) comes to mind as well.

It's getting attention for 2 reasons:

1. it's now digital. Which means two stable left/right images that don't bob/weave out of sync with each other giving you a headache while your eyes try to "lock" the image together

2. it's coming to your living room and we have an industry standard and 1080p source material heading your way in true stereo 1080p.

1080p and lossless audio. EVERY BD should have them both.
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post #14 of 185 Old 01-07-2010, 05:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbaseuser View Post

Polarized 3d has been around forever (Captain EO, epcot center, remember that?) Why is it all the sudden getting so much attention? I saw final destination in 3D, and it seemed to be the same tech that I remember from a while back. Muppets in 3D at Disney MGM (at the time) comes to mind as well.

Polarized 3D glasses were even used for theaterical movies back in the 1950's. Back then the glasses used vertical and horz. polarized lens. Most of the modern systems now use in theaters have right and left hand circular polarized lens instead.

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post #15 of 185 Old 01-07-2010, 06:15 AM
 
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Well, I for one can hardly wait to watch "Jersey Shore" in 3D!
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post #16 of 185 Old 01-07-2010, 08:08 AM
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I for one can hardly wait to watch Disovery Nature programs in 3D...

1080p and lossless audio. EVERY BD should have them both.
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post #17 of 185 Old 01-07-2010, 08:53 AM
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This is very exciting.
If it uses the polarization process, the screen would need to be silver-lenticular...another factor to consider.
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post #18 of 185 Old 01-07-2010, 09:58 AM
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On the front of the LG CF3D 3D projector you can see words:
FullHD
HDMI
DLP


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post #19 of 185 Old 01-07-2010, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vsv View Post

On the front of the LG CF3D 3D projector you can see words:
FullHD
HDMI
DLP

wow, well that definitely changes thing....But Endgadget has been known to posting incorrect or premature pictures which end up being pictures of prototype of commercial products, so are we sure this is the picture of the actual LG projector in question?

And more importantly...how long is it going to take JVC to make some sort of an announcement about an upcoming 3D projector w/ the same amazing NCR and possibly a 120/240hz w/ HDMI 1.4 features? This is where I will be spending my money!
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post #20 of 185 Old 01-07-2010, 12:50 PM
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This news announcement from JVC/Sammy only mentions LCD flat panels, using RealD Circular polarized lenses, which is a bummer as this would require a special silver screen if the same technology is introduced to their line of projectors.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/04/s...d-televisions/
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post #21 of 185 Old 01-07-2010, 01:33 PM
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What would be cool is if a projector could be designed to give viewers the option of which type of glasses to use... that way they could suit their envornment and needs (like not having to buy a new screen etc.)

Wether single or dual engine, a design could merely swap polarized filters with an oscolating LCD shutter that would sync with the glasses. Perhaps one could order the PJ designed one way or the other... either way the basic light path is the same until the very end stage (depending on the design).

1080p and lossless audio. EVERY BD should have them both.
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post #22 of 185 Old 01-07-2010, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet View Post

Wether single or dual engine, a design could merely swap polarized filters with an oscolating LCD shutter that would sync with the glasses. Perhaps one could order the PJ designed one way or the other... either way the basic light path is the same until the very end stage (depending on the design).

Yup, it should be easy. Default is 120Hz alternating images - with output to synch the glasses - good for existing screens, glasses are more limited/heavier/need charging etc.. Option is forget the shutter glasses, use a gray metallic screen and attach the alternating polarizer on the front of the lens, oscillating at the same rate as the signal to the shutters. Large filters don't interfere with eyeglasses or peripheral view...
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post #23 of 185 Old 01-07-2010, 02:24 PM
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Hi David. If you use two standard projectors, one would have the option of using circular polarizing filters on the projectors and then wearing circular polarizer glasses (non circular polarizers while a little cheaper make head positioning critical) thus requiring a silver screen OR using Infitec polarizer filters on the projectors and imfitec glases, these do not require a silver screen.

Using a single projector one would likely need to use shutter glasses with no special screen required. There are other systems

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post #24 of 185 Old 01-07-2010, 02:27 PM
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I can not see the industry providing you the suggested option. KISS will be there approach. Offering choices raises doubt in consumers~ eyes. Gee the manufacturer doesn`t know.

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post #25 of 185 Old 01-07-2010, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

I can not see the industry providing you the suggested option. KISS will be there approach. Offering choices raises doubt in consumers~ eyes. Gee the manufacturer doesn`t know.

hey Mark,

I'm not talking about Epson projectors for your average Joe... I'm really talking about high-end PJ manufacturers like JVC, SIM etc. that cater to videophiles and custom installs where the education factor is high and this type of customized possibility could mean the difference of sale. Right now many of those manufacturers offer long or short throw lens options, for instance. This is basically the same type of "swap/drop in" thing and given that a polarized filter is often at the end of the light path and isn't a substantial part of the cost of a single light engine design, it would be a great asset for videophiles who might have a strong preference one way or the other (polarized versus active LCD shutter glasses) but really want to spend their dollar on a particular projector model for all of its instrinic picture quality criteria.

1080p and lossless audio. EVERY BD should have them both.
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post #26 of 185 Old 01-07-2010, 06:41 PM
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On the front of the LG CF3D 3D projector you can see words:
FullHD
HDMI
DLP


And SXRD after that.
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post #27 of 185 Old 01-07-2010, 07:32 PM
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In audio,one manufacturer of dacs offered consumers a choice of DA chips. The company went out of business. Providing such a choice from one projector will not happen. Certainly for no machine under the plus $75K class. presently,in two projector set ups where filters are mounted in front of the primary lens, choices of filters are presently available. Polarizers, circular polarizers,or Infitec. The best and most expensive but clearly not a significant cost barrier in these set ups would be Infitec and Infitec glasses. For single machines, it will be shutter glasses. All except the ones using polarizers do not require silver screens. What we are seeing in RP 3D machines is shutter glasses and the coming Vizio 73 inch D three D flat panel will be shutter glasses 480 back lit zones (about 5 sq inches per zone). I think I willbe getting one of those to replace my 64 inch D Panasonic plasma. Cost with two pairs of glasses will be about $4K.

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post #28 of 185 Old 01-07-2010, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

In audio,one manufacturer of dacs offered consumers a choice of DA chips. the company went out of business.

And I suppose it was this un-named company's decision to offer a choice of DACs in their product that spelled their inevitable demise and the analogy is 1:1 applicable to offering a choice of 3D eyeware options with a consumer's purchase of a 3D projector?





Quote:


presently,in twoprojector set ups where filters are mounted in front of the primary lens, choices of filters are presently available.Polarizers, circular polarizers,or Infitec.

Of course, because the filters are custom-applied options anyway when stacking two independent PJs together.

Quote:


the best and most expensive but clearly not a significant cost barrier in these set ups would be Infitec and Infitec glasses. For single machines, it will be shutter glasses. All except the ones using polarizers do not require silver screens. What we are seeing in RP 3D machines is shutter glasses and the coming Vizio 73 inch D three D flat panel will be shutter glasses 480 back lit zones (about 5 sq inches per zone). I think I willbe getting one of those to replace my 64 inch D Panasonic plasma. Cost with two pairs of glasses will be about $4K.

You've describd the Vizio (72 inch) display accurately, but given that so few high-end FP manufacturers have promoted any new 3D PJs at the show thus far, it's a bit premature to make determined conclusions about what they will or will not offer consumers in their effort to gain market and make sales as 3D momentum gains traction in the high-end videophile segment over the next few years.

1080p and lossless audio. EVERY BD should have them both.
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post #29 of 185 Old 01-07-2010, 09:49 PM
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MSRP around 10K

I supposed it is well priced for first generation 6 PANELS! 3D.

In any case, JVC is coming with a DI-LA one too, soon-
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post #30 of 185 Old 01-07-2010, 09:54 PM
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At Sony`s on floor press conference, the focus was on 3D and Sony`s spomsorship of 3D ESPN. The announced 3D panels will utilize wireless shutter glasses. Sony announced a 3D system for HT would be coming shortly. That means I think a consumer 3D projector. No way its going tobe anything completely different.The system wil lemplor wireless shutter glasses.sony will control where the consumer 3D world goes. Regardless if others use other than SXRD, the system will use shutter glasses for all for the foreseeable future.

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