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post #1 of 41 Old 01-14-2010, 11:52 PM - Thread Starter
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I would like to put up a 168in or 150in screen (edited now 120in or 133in). I am building a dedicated basement theater room that is about 14 X 21.5ft. I have been considering the epson 8500ub. I'm not sure if it will be bright enough in movie mode. It has about 650 lumens in calibrated movie mode. I found a 150in fixed white screen with a gain of 1.1 for ~$650 (anyone know of a great bang for the buck screen?). I will be able to control the light well. I will paint the ceiling black (drywall), the walls and carpet will be a dark color. I will ceiling mount the projector.

Will that be enough or do I need to go smaller on the screen size?

I'm thinking about using wilsonart designer white for my screen.

I really want a 150inch screen size in 16:9 though.

The designer white screen can be had at the maximum height of 61 inches. This allows for a nice 2.35 screen size at 155 inches diagonal and 61 inches high.

For 16:9 the same screen could be 124 inch diagonal and 61 inch high.

I wonder how much of a pain it would be to adjust the zoom between 2.35:1 and 16:9 with a manual zoom such as the epson 8500ub?

Anyone have anyother screens that would work good for the 8500ub and a 150 inch diagonal 16:9 aspect ratio?
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post #2 of 41 Old 01-15-2010, 05:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curt248 View Post

I would like to put up a 168in or 150in screen. I am building a dedicated basement theater room that is about 14 X 25ft. I have been considering the epson 8500ub. I'm not sure if it will be bright enough in movie mode. It has about 650 lumens in calibrated movie mode. I found a 150in fixed white screen with a gain of 1.1 for ~$650 (anyone know of a great bang for the buck screen?). I will be able to control the light well. I will paint the ceiling black (drywall), the walls and carpet will be a dark color. I will ceiling mount the projector.

Will that be enough or do I need to go smaller on the screen size?

I'm thinking about using wilsonart designer white for my screen.

I really want a 150inch screen size in 16:9 though.

The designer white screen can be had at the maximum height of 61 inches. This allows for a nice 2.35 screen size at 155 inches diagonal and 61 inches high.

For 16:9 the same screen could be 124 inch diagonal and 61 inch high.

I wonder how much of a pain it would be to adjust the zoom between 2.35:1 and 16:9 with a manual zoom such as the epson 8500ub?

Anyone have anyother screens that would work good for the 8500ub and a 150 inch diagonal 16:9 aspect ratio?

My experience says you will not be satisfied in any mode.

I own a 6500 and have probably done some sort of calibration (gray scale and gamma mostly) 20+ times since I got the machine in April 2009. Many of these were to learn more about calibrating. The ftL drop a lot in the first few hundred hours.

I just put a new lamp in mine and calibrated dynamic mode at low lamp and had about 16 ftL on a 118" Carada Brilliant White screen, 16:9 (stated gain of 1.4, but probably closer to 1.2). The colors aren't quite as accurate in dynamic, but I've decided to trade off that for a brighter picture, and it looks more contrasty to me, which I like.

At about 400 hours on my last bulb it was down to about 12 ftL (still low lamp) but this gives you an idea of the tailoff. On my first unit I had about 650 hours on it and it was putting out about 12ftL. But again this is after calibration. I think after 300-400 hours on the bulb it starts to level off based upon my experience.

In my dark theater that has good light control, I have found that if I go below 10 FtL, the dark scenes are starting to be hard to discern detail.

A 150" diagonal 16:9 screen is about 60% more surface area than mine, so at zero hours you would have less than 10 ftL on low lamp dynamic. On high lamp you would be around 13 ftL. After 400 hours you will be below 10 ftL, even on high lamp and these numbers are based on my screen which has a higher gain that what you are considering. You may want to look into a higher gain screen.

Hope this helps.
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post #3 of 41 Old 01-15-2010, 06:04 AM
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i have 126" 16:9 bw carada screen. and epson 8500.if i do it again i would like to go with 118 or less because the picture not bright like what i want. no wow pop
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post #4 of 41 Old 01-15-2010, 06:18 AM
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If you have a good light controlled room and can live with slightly inaccurate color in Livingroom mode, you would be happy with the picture. It has a nice pop even when calibrated for brightness and contrast. However, if having calibrated color is important, you would need to go for a smaller screen or higher gain screen.

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post #5 of 41 Old 01-15-2010, 07:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knd View Post

My experience says you will not be satisfied in any mode.

I own a 6500 and have probably done some sort of calibration (gray scale and gamma mostly) 20+ times since I got the machine in April 2009. Many of these were to learn more about calibrating. The ftL drop a lot in the first few hundred hours.

I just put a new lamp in mine and calibrated dynamic mode at low lamp and had about 16 ftL on a 118" Carada Brilliant White screen, 16:9 (stated gain of 1.4, but probably closer to 1.2). The colors aren't quite as accurate in dynamic, but I've decided to trade off that for a brighter picture, and it looks more contrasty to me, which I like.

At about 400 hours on my last bulb it was down to about 12 ftL (still low lamp) but this gives you an idea of the tailoff. On my first unit I had about 650 hours on it and it was putting out about 12ftL. But again this is after calibration. I think after 300-400 hours on the bulb it starts to level off based upon my experience.

In my dark theater that has good light control, I have found that if I go below 10 FtL, the dark scenes are starting to be hard to discern detail.

A 150" diagonal 16:9 screen is about 60% more surface area than mine, so at zero hours you would have less than 10 ftL on low lamp dynamic. On high lamp you would be around 13 ftL. After 400 hours you will be below 10 ftL, even on high lamp and these numbers are based on my screen which has a higher gain that what you are considering. You may want to look into a higher gain screen.

Hope this helps.

I couldn't have said it better myself. Brightness dropoff is the single most depressing aspect of projectors. Everyone talks about how bright the thing is, but usually fails to mention that you will literally lose about 30% brightness fairly quickly. Switching to high lamp boosts it a hair, but it continues to fall. It's such a pain. I'm actually waiting to see how the vizio 72" lcd turns out. I would gladly trade of inches for a "stable" light-output display. Either that or an LED projector, but that will probably a few years until they are affordable.
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post #6 of 41 Old 01-15-2010, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by cbaseuser View Post

I couldn't have said it better myself. Brightness dropoff is the single most depressing aspect of projectors. Everyone talks about how bright the thing is, but usually fails to mention that you will literally lose about 30% brightness fairly quickly. Switching to high lamp boosts it a hair, but it continues to fall. It's such a pain. I'm actually waiting to see how the vizio 72" lcd turns out. I would gladly trade of inches for a "stable" light-output display. Either that or an LED projector, but that will probably a few years until they are affordable.

I agree on the bulb dimming, but still love our setup. I'm also on the sidelines until the LED driven projectors become more mainstream.
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post #7 of 41 Old 01-15-2010, 08:33 AM
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I would think using dynamic mode (maybe with a filter to correct green push) on a Da Lite High Power screen (2.8 gain and a fabulous screen despite what Evan thinks) would work fine with 150 inches. The compromises you'd have to make would be 1) keeping the projector just above sitting head height or just below and 2) you'd want to keep viewing angle to a minimum (there is some latitude on both accounts). If that's not possible then you're stuck with a smaller screen. I'm not sure the HP comes that big.
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post #8 of 41 Old 01-15-2010, 09:01 AM
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High Power definitely comes in 150" diagonal, and if it works in your setup then highly recommended.
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post #9 of 41 Old 01-15-2010, 09:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks guys.

I have a couple questions. I read here somewhere that going with a high gain screen and a bigger screen is a newbie mistake. Is this still true? It sounds a little too good to be true. If you don't have the lumens for a big screen just up the gain and all is well.

So what does it take to get a high gain screen to work. I am open to setup suggestions as my theater is a not constructed yet. It is a 17ft X 21ft basement area with a low 7.5 ft ceiling. I was planning on having the first row at 13ft and the second row raised (how much should that be?) at say 16ft.

How do people mount their projectors for high gain screens (like the dalite 2.8's and such)? I read quite a bit about loosing brightness when being off center.

I wonder if this would be a problem with my setup. I would like a 150 inch screen with the seating rows about 14 feet and 18ft back. The largest angle would be one seat closer to the wall that would be even (90 degree angle) with the right side of the screen. It would be 5ft 2in (1/2 of screen size) X 14 or 18ft (distance to seats) X 14.9ft. This would give a 21.65 degree angle from the screen if my calculations are correct.

What would the ideal screen be for this 21.65 degree offcenter image. It doesn't have to be perfect, but I'm not sure if a high gain (2.8 or so) screen would handle the 21.65 degrees well.

I guess I've been talking about horizontal angle. I suppose I would have to figure out the verticle angle as well. I'm guessing that a dead center of the screen projector would be the ideal? If I ceiling mount mine, how low can I go in mounting the projector itself. I have to go at least a foot below the ceiling to clear the ventilation ducts.

What about throw distance. If I want maximum light, I will need to mount the pj at the closest position to the screen (widest angle) right? That looks like 14ft 9in. Are there any disadvantages to doing this? I know photo cameras often take the best pictures somewhere in the middle of their zoom range (not at the widest angle (biggest aperture)).
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post #10 of 41 Old 01-15-2010, 09:32 AM
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Yeah if you're willing to use one of the brighter modes you'll be fine. I have a Espon 1080 projected on to a 150" screen from 18 feet, using dynamic mode in low lamp, plenty bright at 400 hours on the bulb......
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post #11 of 41 Old 01-15-2010, 09:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Is dynamic mode the brightest mode?

How much difference is there between using a brighter mode and a true calibrated mode in picture quality?

I'd like good pq (who wouldn't), but am new to this and am not sure how big the difference is between the brightness modes and the pq.

So far I've only been considering the best calibrated mode for movie watching and choosing the screen size and type.

Lewke, how dark is your theater? Does it have dark walls and ceiling? How does the image look in one of the lower light settings (more like the best ones in the reviews) with high lamp mode? Is that bright enough? Did you try that and decide it was not enough light, even for movies (with total darkness)? This is so hard to determine without seeing any of the images in person.
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post #12 of 41 Old 01-15-2010, 09:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Dejavu, In evan's review on projector central of the da lite 2.8 hp he states that at 20 degrees offcenter the gain drops to 1.0. That seems pretty severe. In my situation I will have 21.65 maximum horizontal angle. Does this drop to 1.0 gain at 20 degrees sound correct to you?

Evan also says that at dead center the gain is truely 2.8.

Would there be a better projector screen material for me to use? Do you know what the gain rating of the Wilsonart Designer White is? I guess if I go with the wilsonart then I would have to make the screen size no more than 124in. I'm currently thinking from everything that I have been reading on here that the 124in might be a better size for my projector. I'd love it I could get it bigger though.

Dejavu, you are the filter guy with the 9500 right? Maybe that would be the way to go for me and use dynamic mode. I could then still consider the 2.35 ratio screen using the wilsonart designer white (it only gets to 61 in height max) and have a 155in 2.35:1 screen and a 124 inch image for 16:9 material. The drag would be using the manual zoom to go back and forth between the two aspect ratios since the height could never go more than 61 inches.
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post #13 of 41 Old 01-15-2010, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curt248 View Post

Thanks guys.

I was planning on having the first row at 13ft and the second row raised (how much should that be?) at say 16ft.

If you are going to have recliners, you are going to need closer to 6 feet between rows. Check with your supplier as I was assuming I could get them closer together until I actually selected the furniture and learned otherwise.
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post #14 of 41 Old 01-15-2010, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curt248 View Post

Is dynamic mode the brightest mode?

How much difference is there between using a brighter mode and a true calibrated mode in picture quality?

Yes Dynamic is the brightest mode (at least on a 6500).

Calibration knocks down the brightness a lot maybe 30%, but of course the picture looks much better.
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post #15 of 41 Old 01-15-2010, 10:49 AM
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Lewke, how dark is your theater? Does it have dark walls and ceiling? How does the image look in one of the lower light settings (more like the best ones in the reviews) with high lamp mode? Is that bright enough? Did you try that and decide it was not enough light, even for movies (with total darkness)? This is so hard to determine without seeing any of the images in person.

My theatre is my living room, so the walls are white....

The theatre modes were watchable, but when you compare to dynamic the picture appeared much darker.....I run in low lamp as my projector right next to me....

I only have the Epson 1080 which isn't nearly as bright as the 8500, so the theatre modes might be better.....

Why not buy the projector first and do some testing before you purchase the screen?????

Here's a picture of my previous setup, 150" with an Espon 810 in Dynamic High Lamp using almost max horizontal lenshift on a cheap ebay screen....
LL
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post #16 of 41 Old 01-15-2010, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curt248 View Post

Dejavu, In evan's review on projector central of the da lite 2.8 hp he states that at 20 degrees offcenter the gain drops to 1.0. That seems pretty severe. In my situation I will have 21.65 maximum horizontal angle. Does this drop to 1.0 gain at 20 degrees sound correct to you?

Evan also says that at dead center the gain is truely 2.8.

Would there be a better projector screen material for me to use? Do you know what the gain rating of the Wilsonart Designer White is? I guess if I go with the wilsonart then I would have to make the screen size no more than 124in. I'm currently thinking from everything that I have been reading on here that the 124in might be a better size for my projector. I'd love it I could get it bigger though.

Dejavu, you are the filter guy with the 9500 right? Maybe that would be the way to go for me and use dynamic mode. I could then still consider the 2.35 ratio screen using the wilsonart designer white (it only gets to 61 in height max) and have a 155in 2.35:1 screen and a 124 inch image for 16:9 material. The drag would be using the manual zoom to go back and forth between the two aspect ratios since the height could never go more than 61 inches.

Here's what you need to do! Go over to the screen forum and check out Tryg's High Power thread and his screen thread which is one of the best and most comprehensive reviews on this entire forum - it puts ProjectorCentral's review to absolute shame. The High Power isn't optimal in every situation, but if it will work in your environment then it is definitely worth a look. Some of the most knowledgeable members on this forum use this screen. I've used one for close to 10 years now on and off. I tried other screens and always come back - I don't bother trying others any longer! As far as using the 8500 in dynamic mode check out "Turbo-charging the Epson 6500/7500 and 8500/9500" thread which discusses using filters to tame the green push in dynamic mode for accurate colour with maximum brightness! These projectors are stunning on a Hi Power screen in dynamic/vivid mode calibrated with a filter or combination of filters.

With the Hi Power there are other advantages - you can use a pulldown since the screen is retroreflective you WON'T see any waves in the material while watching movies etc. The Hi Power in pulldown form is very inexpensive - go on the internet and do a search (I saw a 120" for $399.00) I have four Hi Power screens and four others. It is very easy to set up either against a wall or out from a wall. Very smooth material which isn't noticeable when viewing. There are some downsides, but not many (a little colour shift, but you need a colorimeter to know). If you like a bright plasma like look with lots of punch and detail then check this screen out!

Apparently there is a new Da Lite Hi Power 2.4 gain screen with a wider viewing angle. Anyway check out the HP 2.8 here for viewing angle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaLWeV1Qkdo
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post #17 of 41 Old 01-15-2010, 11:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok guys. I've decided to go with a 120 inch screen size. I just realized that my ceiling height is low at 7.5 ft so a 150 inch screen would not allow any room for a center speaker to go below the screen.

I will have to check out the hipower screens. It looks like they have recently changed the material without informing the customers. It sounds like a lot of people are upset about that. I wonder if the new material is as good or better than the old stuff. I hope someone does a review on the new stuff compared to the old 2.8 hp screens.

Should the epson 8500ub look good with this size screen? I'm hoping to get better performance with the smaller screen. I can't wait.

I've been shopping at monoprice for the last 4 hours. I'm up to $409 of wires and cords. That's 64lbs of goodies. The deals at that place are amazing. 250ft of inside the wall ul rated 12 gauge speaker wire for ~$60. HDMI cables 24 gauge 1.3a rated in 25ft lengths for $23. It's like a theater designers heaven.

The theater room is going to be soo sweet and clean with all of the inwall wiring and electrical type boxes all over the room. I'm setting it up with wiring for 12 speaker outlets (three on each wall). I'm also using 4 connector wire for the front 3 speakers so I can add bi-wired speakers in the future. I'm so excited about the possibility of adding extra amplifiers to my setup.

I even ordered the equipment to wire 2 separate subs (for 7.2 or 8.2) in each corner of the room. Does that mean that 8 subs are in my future? Maybe when I'm deaf from watching too many movies with big sound that I need to feel the movie instead.
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post #18 of 41 Old 01-16-2010, 06:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curt248 View Post

Ok guys. I've decided to go with a 120 inch screen size. I just realized that my ceiling height is low at 7.5 ft so a 150 inch screen would not allow any room for a center speaker to go below the screen.

I will have to check out the hipower screens. It looks like they have recently changed the material without informing the customers. It sounds like a lot of people are upset about that. I wonder if the new material is as good or better than the old stuff. I hope someone does a review on the new stuff compared to the old 2.8 hp screens.

Should the epson 8500ub look good with this size screen? I'm hoping to get better performance with the smaller screen. I can't wait.

I've been shopping at monoprice for the last 4 hours. I'm up to $409 of wires and cords. That's 64lbs of goodies. The deals at that place are amazing. 250ft of inside the wall ul rated 12 gauge speaker wire for ~$60. HDMI cables 24 gauge 1.3a rated in 25ft lengths for $23. It's like a theater designers heaven.

The theater room is going to be soo sweet and clean with all of the inwall wiring and electrical type boxes all over the room. I'm setting it up with wiring for 12 speaker outlets (three on each wall). I'm also using 4 connector wire for the front 3 speakers so I can add bi-wired speakers in the future. I'm so excited about the possibility of adding extra amplifiers to my setup.

I even ordered the equipment to wire 2 separate subs (for 7.2 or 8.2) in each corner of the room. Does that mean that 8 subs are in my future? Maybe when I'm deaf from watching too many movies with big sound that I need to feel the movie instead.

Personally, I think you made the right decision on the screen size.

One thing else you need to consider. I have 2 rows of seats with a 16" riser for the back row, and this is the perfect height (bottom of the screen is visible from back row when reclined (and front row not)). I have 10 foot ceiling height. I think you may have some issues with your 7.5 foot ceiling and a big riser. Just something to consider.
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post #19 of 41 Old 01-16-2010, 06:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curt248 View Post


Should the epson 8500ub look good with this size screen? I'm hoping to get better performance with the smaller screen. I can't wait.

Curt

My prior projector was an Epson 7500 used with the 119" 2.8 High Power - everyone's room varies, but mine is not a bat cave, yet the image was plasma-like. I was able to run in low lamp mode and still be plenty bright. Haven't seen the 8500, but would assume it's the same or better in terms of overall output capabilities.
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post #20 of 41 Old 01-16-2010, 06:35 AM
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If you get the HP screen (can still request the old 2.8 material), that size screen should be plenty bright--could even go a bit bigger, and then place the center above rather than below the screen if necessary.
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post #21 of 41 Old 01-16-2010, 04:52 PM
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I'm using 6500UBs on two 120" 16x9 screens. One is an Elite EZ Frame with a 1.1 gain matte white and the other is a 1.4 gain tensioned electric from HT Depot. Both HT rooms have full light control. Calibrated in high lamp mode it's still bright enough with about 400 hours on the lamp on the 1.1 gain but I'm going to try out adding the external filter and using dynamic mode to see how that works. Using the rule of thumb of minimum seating distance being 1.5 screen widiths (for 1080p with 16 x 9 screen), the front row of seats for a 120" should be approx. 13 ft. from the screen (which is how my HTs are set up). One of my HTs only has a 7.5 ceiling but I was able to put a second row of seats at about 17 ft. on a 9" high riser. I have the top of the EZ Frame screen very close to the ceiling with a center speaker just below the screen. This was necessary to provide clear line of sight from viewers in the second row of seats to the bottom of the screen.

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post #22 of 41 Old 01-16-2010, 11:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Ron. We figured about 11.5 to 12 feet for the first row and about 15 to 16 feet back for the second row. I wonder if that would require a bit higher riser since the first row would be a bit closer to the screen and more in the way of the view to the bottom of the screen.

How did you setup your 9in riser? Did you set it up just behind the first row or closer to the second row. I suppose the latter wouldn't make as much sense.

How is it to stand on a 9in riser with the lower ceiling ht. Is it a big problem with people having to duck at all?

Do you have any pictures of your setup? I'd love to see a bunch of pictures. You could send them to curt248 at yahoo.com. That would be awesome especially since your setup is so similar to mine.

Did you try the riser seat height formula posted somewhere on this forum to get your measurements?

So with a 120in screen and 1.1 and 1.4 gain, you are still hoping for more brightness even with full light control? I guess thrang's da lite may be more of a possiblity.

Thrang, where did you mount your pj? Mine is going to be a ceiling mount. I'm thinking after the riser the pj might only be able to be mounted about 1 foot lower than the top of the screen. I wonder how that will look with the hp since it loses it's gain advantage as low as 20 degrees off center.
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post #23 of 41 Old 01-17-2010, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

Here's what you need to do! Go over to the screen forum and check out Tryg's High Power thread and his screen thread which is one of the best and most comprehensive reviews on this entire forum - it puts ProjectorCentral's review to absolute shame. The High Power isn't optimal in every situation, but if it will work in your environment then it is definitely worth a look. Some of the most knowledgeable members on this forum use this screen. I've used one for close to 10 years now on and off. I tried other screens and always come back - I don't bother trying others any longer! As far as using the 8500 in dynamic mode check out "Turbo-charging the Epson 6500/7500 and 8500/9500" thread which discusses using filters to tame the green push in dynamic mode for accurate colour with maximum brightness! These projectors are stunning on a Hi Power screen in dynamic/vivid mode calibrated with a filter or combination of filters.

With the Hi Power there are other advantages - you can use a pulldown since the screen is retroreflective you WON'T see any waves in the material while watching movies etc. The Hi Power in pulldown form is very inexpensive - go on the internet and do a search (I saw a 120" for $399.00) I have four Hi Power screens and four others. It is very easy to set up either against a wall or out from a wall. Very smooth material which isn't noticeable when viewing. There are some downsides, but not many (a little colour shift, but you need a colorimeter to know). If you like a bright plasma like look with lots of punch and detail then check this screen out!

Apparently there is a new Da Lite Hi Power 2.4 gain screen with a wider viewing angle. Anyway check out the HP 2.8 here for viewing angle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaLWeV1Qkdo

Thanks for this very informative post. I am going to try this screen but I need to know if I am going to give up any in black level by using high power screen. Is this screen even recommended for a bat cave theater? I am looking at 106' screen. I would like to have plasma like brightness, detail, and pop and wow without giving up color accuracy and black level. Thanks.

I want to hear opinions from people who don't have a dog in the fight.
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post #24 of 41 Old 01-17-2010, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by curt248 View Post

Thanks Ron. We figured about 11.5 to 12 feet for the first row and about 15 to 16 feet back for the second row. I wonder if that would require a bit higher riser since the first row would be a bit closer to the screen and more in the way of the view to the bottom of the screen.

How did you setup your 9in riser? Did you set it up just behind the first row or closer to the second row. I suppose the latter wouldn't make as much sense.

How is it to stand on a 9in riser with the lower ceiling ht. Is it a big problem with people having to duck at all?

Do you have any pictures of your setup? I'd love to see a bunch of pictures. You could send them to curt248 at yahoo.com. That would be awesome especially since your setup is so similar to mine.

Did you try the riser seat height formula posted somewhere on this forum to get your measurements?

So with a 120in screen and 1.1 and 1.4 gain, you are still hoping for more brightness even with full light control? I guess thrang's da lite may be more of a possiblity.

Thrang, where did you mount your pj? Mine is going to be a ceiling mount. I'm thinking after the riser the pj might only be able to be mounted about 1 foot lower than the top of the screen. I wonder how that will look with the hp since it loses it's gain advantage as low as 20 degrees off center.

I used the Riser Calculator (HERE) to determine the minimum riser height. My room is 16 ft. wide by 21.5 feet long and I built the riser aross the entire back of the room (i.e., 16 ft. wide) and out approx. 7.5 ft. from the back wall. See photos below. The backs of the front row of seats are just in front of the riser resulting in the viewer eyes-to-screen distance being something around 13 ft. With a 9" high riser the ceiling is now only 6' 9" in the rear of the HT. I placed the projector as close to the ceiling as possible, centered with the screen and it's located above the front row of seats (i.e, rear of projector is about 14 from screen even with where the riser starts) so that it doesn't get in the way of people walking on the riser getting to the rear row of seats. Since I'm using a fixed frame screen I was able to mount it very close to the ceiling with only about 1 inch between the top of the frame and the ceiling.

As for brightness in best calibrated mode, with the 1.1 gain screen I would say that its adequate (certainly above the generally accepted minimum of 12 ft.L), but I would prefer to have it a little brighter (perhaps in the 18 to 24 ft. L range). That's why I want to try out using the external filter and then calibrate with with the projector set to dynamic mode. Epson sells a version in certain European countries (e.g., Germany) that comes with an external filter for use with the projector's dynamic mode and tests by one German publication indicate you can get a fairly well calibrated image with about twice the image brightness as compared to using the projector's cinema or natural modes.






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post #25 of 41 Old 01-17-2010, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Alex solomon View Post

Thanks for this very informative post. I am going to try this screen but I need to know if I am going to give up any in black level by using high power screen. Is this screen even recommended for a bat cave theater? I am looking at 106' screen. I would like to have plasma like brightness, detail, and pop and wow without giving up color accuracy and black level. Thanks.

I have a bat cave theatre with both a HP and grey screen. Black levels are better on the grey screen, but the problem is the whole image is duller. The HP has, IMO, the best of both worlds - "punch" with good black levels.
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post #26 of 41 Old 01-17-2010, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

I have a bat cave theatre with both a HP and grey screen. Black levels are better on the grey screen, but the problem is the whole image is duller. The HP has, IMO, the best of both worlds - "punch" with good black levels.

Thanks. I just started reading about the new HP Da-lite is shipping, the Wide power with claimed gain of 2.4. I would like to see a comparison between the new and the old.

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Nice theater Ron. It looks like you went all out with recreating the actual $10 a seat theater for your home.

The pictures really help a lot. Thanks.

I like how you fit 9 seats in there. Where and how much for the seats? I've been considering the coaster pavillions for myself. We were thinking 4 in front and 2 in back. Do you fill up the seats ever? I'm a bit afraid of my popularity rating after getting the theater done.

Where did you put the center speaker? Is it in the wall?

I love the enclosures for the front speakers. That front stage is basically what I was thinking I will do. The only difference is that I was planning on making the bottom stage high enough to put the center speaker in.

What material did you use to make the enclosures?

Ditto on the info on the new da lite high power 2.4
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post #28 of 41 Old 01-18-2010, 12:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Alex solomon View Post

Thanks. I just started reading about the new HP Da-lite is shipping, the Wide power with claimed gain of 2.4. I would like to see a comparison between the new and the old.

FYI, the "Wide Power" is a third fabric, with a 2.2 gain, that is used only with the Insta-Theater screen:

http://www.da-lite.com/products/product.php?pID=92

The 2.4 gain fabric is also called a High Power by Da-Lite. I learned this when I called Da-Lite earlier this week to ask for a sample of the Wide Power, wanting one of the 2.4 gain fabric, and got a rep who began telling me about the Insta-Theater and much confusion followed.

There is plenty of discussion about the difference between the new and the old in the thread in the screens section:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1213577

I have a High Power and will add my feelings if and when the 2.4 gain sample arrives.
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post #29 of 41 Old 01-18-2010, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curt248 View Post

Nice theater Ron. It looks like you went all out with recreating the actual $10 a seat theater for your home.

The pictures really help a lot. Thanks.

I like how you fit 9 seats in there. Where and how much for the seats? I've been considering the coaster pavillions for myself. We were thinking 4 in front and 2 in back. Do you fill up the seats ever? I'm a bit afraid of my popularity rating after getting the theater done.

Where did you put the center speaker? Is it in the wall?

I love the enclosures for the front speakers. That front stage is basically what I was thinking I will do. The only difference is that I was planning on making the bottom stage high enough to put the center speaker in.

What material did you use to make the enclosures?

Ditto on the info on the new da lite high power 2.4

The center speaker is mounted in-wall just below the screen. The Front L/R main speakers are 5-way DIY towers (i.e., in their own free standing cabinets) that I built quite a few years ago and I just framed in spaces to create 'chambers' where I could set (i.e, hide) the tower speakers to the right and left of the screen/stage (with drywall for the angled wall between the stage and the speakers). I then made floor-to-ceiling black fabric covered frames for the grills on the front. I used foam sound absorbers inside the speaker 'chambers' to reduce any sound reflections. The center speaker is a 3-way design using the same drivers as the R/L towers minus the main woofer and super tweeter.

I did place a center spk. in a taller stage for the HT that I built almost 20 years ago at my previous house and that also worked out OK.

I purchased the theater seats from seatsandchairs.com and they sell a wide variety of new and used/refurb chairs. The ones I purchased were used and the cost about $160 each including a free shipping deal. I purchased these about 18 months ago. I see they currently have several used and refurb models (new fabric on used frame, etc.) listed for under $200 each and they are offering a free shipping deal on some models.

As for the Dalite High Power, It's generally not a good choice for use with a ceiling mounted projector (when located near the ceiling) since in order to get the claimed gain of 2.8 (original HP) the projector must be mounted at or near eye level. With the layout that I have, and with the projector mounted very near the ceiling, the HP would produce a gain of closer to 1 than to 2.8 from the middle seats in the front row and even less when viewed from the seats on the ends. There is a detailed gain calculator that can be used to calculate the HP gain that was posted by FLBoy over in the screen forum (HERE).

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post #30 of 41 Old 01-18-2010, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by curt248 View Post

I would like to put up a 168in or 150in screen. I am building a dedicated basement theater room that is about 14 X 25ft. I have been considering the epson 8500ub. I'm not sure if it will be bright enough in movie mode. It has about 650 lumens in calibrated movie mode. I found a 150in fixed white screen with a gain of 1.1 for ~$650 (anyone know of a great bang for the buck screen?). I will be able to control the light well. I will paint the ceiling black (drywall), the walls and carpet will be a dark color. I will ceiling mount the projector.

Will that be enough or do I need to go smaller on the screen size?

I'm thinking about using wilsonart designer white for my screen.

I really want a 150inch screen size in 16:9 though.

The designer white screen can be had at the maximum height of 61 inches. This allows for a nice 2.35 screen size at 155 inches diagonal and 61 inches high.

For 16:9 the same screen could be 124 inch diagonal and 61 inch high.

I wonder how much of a pain it would be to adjust the zoom between 2.35:1 and 16:9 with a manual zoom such as the epson 8500ub?

Anyone have anyother screens that would work good for the 8500ub and a 150 inch diagonal 16:9 aspect ratio?

Absolutely not if you plan to watch it calibrated on that screen. I personally wouldn't watch it calibrated on a high gain screen of that size either. Really to do this you are limiting yourself to full out in order to have it appear bright enough, especially once the lamp starts to dim.
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