Official InFocus Sp8602 owners thread. - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 1994 Old 05-24-2010, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jruizcristina View Post

Did you try it with the option "Fast color refresh" switched on? Please let me know, since you have also a PS3 your feedback would be very valuable
Thanks!

I will try this later and come back to you.
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post #722 of 1994 Old 05-24-2010, 09:58 AM
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At 1080p60 SP8602 colorwheel spins 7200rpm at the default 4X. When Fast Color Refresh (6X) is chosen it spins 10800rpm. Yes, it is a bit louder with a high pitched whine. This is normal behavior The Fast Color Refresh option is there for those users who are overly sensitive to rainbow artifacts. Otherwise it is best to leave Fast Color Refresh off. SP8602 colorwheel is sync'd to the DMD refresh rate so when presented with a 1080p24 input signal it spins at 5760rpm (4X) and 8640rpm (6X). This is why you don't hear the colorwheel when displaying 1080p24 even when set to the 6X Fast Color Refresh.

DMD's have a minimum requirement for load time. This is the time required for data to be loaded into the DMD for each colorwheel segment. At the 6X speed load time is challenged with the result that some color detail may be compromised in low APL scenes. For example, a SP8602 colorwheel red segment is 62 degrees wide. At 6X and 1080p60 input that only allows for a maximum of 957 micro seconds for data loading. Actually it is even less than that because of spoke light and other considerations.

Dennis
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post #723 of 1994 Old 05-24-2010, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tibia View Post

This is why you don't hear the colorwheel when displaying 1080p24 even when set to the 6X Fast Color Refresh.

Thanks, Dennis, that explains a lot about what I am seeing (or better said, hearing). So it seems that I can't preceive the difference in audible noise from 5760rpm (4x 1080p24), to 7200rpm (4x 1080p60) and 8640rpm(6X 1080p24). But then, when the wheel jumps to 10800rpm, the loud high whine starts. To me it is an exagerated difference, and adding up the fact that I don't remember perceiving the startup whine with the previous units, I think that my wheel is behaving faulty at that speed. I will try to record the noise and post the recording tomorrow to see if any of you guys can check how it compares to your units (thank God for this thread)

Now the tricky question: Dennis, if there is indeed something wrong with the wheel at the top speed, do you think that this means that sooner or later it will affect the lower speeds behaviour or noise? Or may be if I never use the 6x speed mode I am safe? I don't know what to do, returning the unit for the third time and explaining all this to my dealer is going to be hard, but I don't want to spend my money on a faulty unit

Thanks everybody for your contributions
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post #724 of 1994 Old 05-24-2010, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tibia View Post

At 1080p60 SP8602 colorwheel spins 7200rpm at the default 4X. When Fast Color Refresh (6X) is chosen it spins 10800rpm. Yes, it is a bit louder with a high pitched whine. This is normal behavior The Fast Color Refresh option is there for those users who are overly sensitive to rainbow artifacts. Otherwise it is best to leave Fast Color Refresh off. SP8602 colorwheel is sync'd to the DMD refresh rate so when presented with a 1080p24 input signal it spins at 5760rpm (4X) and 8640rpm (6X). This is why you don't hear the colorwheel when displaying 1080p24 even when set to the 6X Fast Color Refresh.

DMD's have a minimum requirement for load time. This is the time required for data to be loaded into the DMD for each colorwheel segment. At the 6X speed load time is challenged with the result that some color detail may be compromised in low APL scenes. For example, a SP8602 colorwheel red segment is 62 degrees wide. At 6X and 1080p60 input that only allows for a maximum of 957 micro seconds for data loading. Actually it is even less than that because of spoke light and other considerations.

I hope this will satisfy as an answer
Mine did exactly as yours
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post #725 of 1994 Old 05-24-2010, 02:52 PM
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Tested mine had to turn my pc off, fish tank light, etc to hear the PJ at all. I can't tell any difference in sound with color wheel speeds 1080p24 - 1080p60 with and without fast color refresh on, only with high lamp mode does it get noticeably louder.
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post #726 of 1994 Old 05-25-2010, 12:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duddits View Post

I hope this will satisfy as an answer
Mine did exactly as yours

Hi,

So you did hear a high whine at 1080p60 with fast color refresh on?

thenorthlander says he doesn't, he can't tell the difference, as I don't remember hearing anything with the other units

Thanks
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post #727 of 1994 Old 05-25-2010, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jruizcristina View Post

Hi,

If your friend has a Windows XP PC with a serial port and a null modem cable, the upgrade is pretty straightforward. What I don't know is how dangerous is the proccess; I never had any problem but I have only performed it three times.

Yeah, thanks. I think I'll have to try it this way as the instructions for the XP serial upgrade do seem a lot more straightforward.

Out of interest, do you need to be able to turn the projector power on during the upgrade other than at standby?

I'm likely to be taking it around to someone's house and sitting it on the floor, so projecting an image wouldn't be easy.
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post #728 of 1994 Old 05-25-2010, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jruizcristina View Post

Now the tricky question: Dennis, if there is indeed something wrong with the wheel at the top speed, do you think that this means that sooner or later it will affect the lower speeds behaviour or noise? Or may be if I never use the 6x speed mode I am safe? I don't know what to do, returning the unit for the third time and explaining all this to my dealer is going to be hard, but I don't want to spend my money on a faulty unit

I can't tell you if you have a defective colorwheel motor. All I can say is that a slight whinning sound is normal at 6X. My unit makes the same noise at 6X but I would never hear it when engrossed in a movie where I run the soundtrack at reference levels. For me it is a mute point since I never use the 6X setting.

According to manufacturer's spec colorwheels are balanced at 10,800 rpm and have calculated L1 lifetime of 30,000 hours. The motors have sleeve bearings. Don't forget colorwheel motors are of the same type as used in hard drives and those usually run for years, sometimes 24/7 operation. If you are not sensitive to rainbow artifacts I suggest you always run 4X. This should give you many years of good service and the best color fidelity.

Dennis
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post #729 of 1994 Old 05-25-2010, 12:41 PM
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I've just received my replacement SP8602 from InFocus after my first unit had the following problems:

1: Remote and controls locked after 20 mins (or so) usage
2: A green stain in the middle of the image
3: A fibre (or hair) appeared to be trapped in the unit and appeared vibrating in the image

I'm not sure if the new unit has the locking problem yet (its firmware is only v65). However, I am very surprised to see the same green staining on the image with this projector too. (It is not my projection surface)

I am wondering if anyone else has seen this problem. It can only be seen with light backgrounds but is very clear, for example when viewing Google home page. I am not sure how I can have such bad luck with two separate 8602s having the same problem. I am wondering if anyone has any ideas on this?

It is not the surface and not the cabling (as it appears on the InFocus wait screen also). I am wondering if InFocus maybe send out reconditioned units as replacements, or could it be the bulb. I've read users of other projectors reporting similar problems caused by the optical board(?). Or maybe there is some way to tweak the settings to avoid this.

Any help greatly appreciated as I am a little embarrassed to go back to InFocus support reporting even more problems.

HL
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post #730 of 1994 Old 05-25-2010, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tibia View Post

I can't tell you if you have a defective colorwheel motor. All I can say is that a slight whinning sound is normal at 6X.

Ok, I recorded the sound from my projector here: http://www.mediafire.com/?2i2zmjyygvm

I would appreciate it a lot if any of you guys could take a couple of minutes to download it and check it out:

-At 0:20s the projector turns on
-At 0:27s the whining starts. It subsides at 0:32s, just about the same time another noise comes in (don't pay attention to it, it is my motorized screen coming down)
-At 1:17s, while in the PS3 menu (1080p60) I turn fast refresh on and the whining starts. At 1:26 I turn it off again, back to 4x
-At 1:48s, on again until 2:02s
-At 2:08s I turn on high lamp mode until 2:20s to compare this noise with the other one. It is almost unnoticeable
-At 2:28s I turn 6x on again.

I think the whining is exaggerated. What do you think?

Please help!!
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post #731 of 1994 Old 05-25-2010, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jruizcristina View Post

Ok, I recorded the sound from my projector here: http://www.mediafire.com/?2i2zmjyygvm

I would appreciate it a lot if any of you guys could take a couple of minutes to download it and check it out:

-At 0:20s the projector turns on
-At 0:27s the whining starts. It subsides at 0:32s, just about the same time another noise comes in (don't pay attention to it, it is my motorized screen coming down)
-At 1:17s, while in the PS3 menu (1080p60) I turn fast refresh on and the whining starts. At 1:26 I turn it off again, back to 4x
-At 1:48s, on again until 2:02s
-At 2:08s I turn on high lamp mode until 2:20s to compare this noise with the other one. It is almost unnoticeable
-At 2:28s I turn 6x on again.

I think the whining is exaggerated. What do you think?

Please help!!

Hmm it is very hard to compare, but I feel that my is a little more high pitch sound. I think this is normal, but let´s wait and see if anyone else is responding.
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post #732 of 1994 Old 05-25-2010, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintJD View Post

Yeah, thanks. I think I'll have to try it this way as the instructions for the XP serial upgrade do seem a lot more straightforward.

Out of interest, do you need to be able to turn the projector power on during the upgrade other than at standby?

I'm likely to be taking it around to someone's house and sitting it on the floor, so projecting an image wouldn't be easy.

Yes you have to plug the unit in and turn it on during the upgrade but you can just point it at a wall to make sure it is fully up and running during the upgrade.
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post #733 of 1994 Old 05-29-2010, 08:39 AM
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anyone else find their PJ loses their settings after a while? this is at least the second time this has happened to me! The iris, contrast, brightness, and RGB bias and gains all revert back to defualt! So F'n annoying!
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post #734 of 1994 Old 05-29-2010, 01:07 PM
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Do you have them on user setting, and do you use any of the lower keys on the remote. Just wondered if maybe you hit a key on the remote that would do that just a thought. And no mine hasn't lost settings.
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post #735 of 1994 Old 05-29-2010, 03:23 PM
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Does this thing have an auto on? - I was trying to listen to music through my Oppo 83, and I did not turn the projector on, but after a moment, it powered up. I shut the PJ off. A moment later, it powers back up.

(I still need to do the firmware upgrade - hopefully tomorrow)
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post #736 of 1994 Old 05-29-2010, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Schneider View Post

Does this thing have an auto on? - I was trying to listen to music through my Oppo 83, and I did not turn the projector on, but after a moment, it powered up. I shut the PJ off. A moment later, it powers back up.

(I still need to do the firmware upgrade - hopefully tomorrow)

You do not need a new firmware, call a priest
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post #737 of 1994 Old 05-29-2010, 05:44 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Schneider View Post

Does this thing have an auto on? - I was trying to listen to music through my Oppo 83, and I did not turn the projector on, but after a moment, it powered up. I shut the PJ off. A moment later, it powers back up.

(I still need to do the firmware upgrade - hopefully tomorrow)

Maybe a Remote control conflict?
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post #738 of 1994 Old 05-30-2010, 03:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottyb View Post

Maybe a Remote control conflict?

Yep.

Volume up on the Lex MC-12 is power on for the 8602
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post #739 of 1994 Old 06-02-2010, 01:38 PM
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What the heck is the SP8682 and why does Infocus list it on their product registration page??
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post #740 of 1994 Old 06-02-2010, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avmjt View Post

What the heck is the SP8682 and why does Infocus list it on their product registration page??

SP8682 is a version of SP8602 for the Chinese market. In all performance aspects it is identical to SP8602.

Dennis
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post #741 of 1994 Old 06-02-2010, 06:36 PM
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Ah I got excited for nothing. Thanks though.
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post #742 of 1994 Old 06-03-2010, 02:47 AM
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I've been a bit out of touch with this thread.

Has InFocus managed to resolve all the problems that the 8602 had ?

Has anyone done real world tests to compare the old IN83 to the 8602 ?

Somehow, my confidence in InFocus has been effected because the impression I get is that InFocus is not what it used to be. Hope the new management takes swift action to restore and maintain the good reputation and confidence that the brand enjoyed in the past.
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post #743 of 1994 Old 06-03-2010, 05:57 AM
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Well they are up to firmware update 72 now, so it would seem they are trying to address any and all problem as soon as they can duplicate them. I think all of the major problems have been addressed. I haven't had any problems with the unit i have with the latest firmware on it. I came from a SP7210 so i can't comment on the differences between the IN83 and the SP8602. The only reason i upgraded was for the 1080P capability and better black levels.
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post #744 of 1994 Old 06-03-2010, 10:29 AM
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I do have the SP8602 after having the IN83, but I haven't felt like getting blasted here for posting my impressions, but since I really like the SP8602, I'd like to answer some of these questions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Ash View Post

Has InFocus managed to resolve all the problems that the 8602 had?

It may be that those with issues tend to post more often and the others whom don't have any issues. I have one of the first units with the original firmware. I never upgraded and I have never experienced any issues. The SP8602 is a new model, and it appears as though Infocus is addressing issues at a pace just as quickly as Epson addressed the issues of the 6500UB when it first came out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Ash View Post

Has anyone done real world tests to compare the old IN83 to the 8602?

I sold my IN83 before getting the SP8602, so I haven't done side-by-side comparisons or tests. However, I have a very good feel of how these compare with a few of my favorite movies that challenge these projectors. I'll try to sum it up briefly.

The SP8602 is noticeably quieter in both lamp modes.

The difference in overall perceived ANSI contrast or "pop and wow" seems about undetectable, at least to me.

The SP8602 is supposed to be less sharp than the IN83 according to Art, but I have to disagree, at least with my unit. I've scrutinized the pixel structure by projecting my HTPC source onto a 142" image, and the SP8602 is just as sharp as the IN83 ever was. In fact, I do not see how it could ever be any more sharp. With single-pixel white text on black, the pixels are each perfectly discreet with no overlapping whatsoever.

The SP8602 image is very much noticeably cleaner because there are absolutely no tiny little wiggly things like I used to see with the IN83.

The SP8602 is a bit less bright, to where it is slightly noticeable. But it is also just as noticeably better at deeper blacks. With the auto iris on, the SP8602 kicks the IN83's ass at black levels. Black levels were the biggest issue I had with the IN83, and the SP8602 is just the improvement I was looking for.

The added vertical lense shift is *VERY* helpful for my installation. I'm unable to detect any brightness change with changes in vertical lens shift.

The SP8602 seems to produce a bit less heat than the IN83.

Motion smoothing is nice at times. It's definitely a nice feature to have when you want the affect. Overall, I've ended up much preferring the affect, even for movies because it really makes movement easier to watch on such a large screen. If I had a smaller screen, I might prefer motion smoothing off at times. I did have an issue where the movement was not natural, but it ended up being because I was watching 24p movies output from my HTPC at 60 Hz. When I changed the video setting to 24 Hz, it's been absolutely excellent ever since.

To me the upgrade was well worth it, even on a very tight budget. I'm very happy with the SP8602. I wanted better black level performance than the IN83 without sacrificing pop and wow, and the SP8602 gave me that and more.

On a side note, last night I went to the Magnolia store and was disappointed in the JVC they had on demo. There was nobody there to assist so I turned the lights off myself. It was a concert video, and I couldn't make out any black level detail. Yes the blacks were very deep, but it seemed to be all or nothing, and the picture was pretty dim, even on a small 92" screen. Of course I have no idea how it was set up, or even which JVC model it was. I definitely don't want to tread on the JVC fans here, but it only took a second to see that I'm a DLP fan.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Ash View Post

Somehow, my confidence in InFocus has been effected because the impression I get is that InFocus is not what it used to be. Hope the new management takes swift action to restore and maintain the good reputation and confidence that the brand enjoyed in the past.

I've called Infocus to register my unit, and they were more than helpful with my follow-up questions regarding firmware upgrades. They said that even though I'm not experiencing any issues, they recommend that I upgrade because there were so many significant improvements and fixes, more than were listed on their website. They said they will be continuing to develop new firmware releases to adapt to the needs of the customers. I sensed an overall excitement about the product from them that I'm not used to hearing, which was nice. I never had an issues with my IN83, so I have no customer service history to compare, but the conversation I had yesterday really gave me confidence that they are personally involved, excited, and most importantly, very much motivated.

I anticipate much ridicule from posting these impressions here, and I can see why most people prefer to just stick with short statements like "I like this one better", but I hope that at least I may have helped one person.
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post #745 of 1994 Old 06-03-2010, 11:54 AM
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avmjt:
Thank you.
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post #746 of 1994 Old 06-03-2010, 02:24 PM
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avmjt,
It's great you aren't having issue with your SP8602 but you really should upgrade to the latest firmware. As InFocus Customer Support told you there are several improvements that will only make your viewing experience more enjoyable. Just be sure you jot down all your current projector settings before you upgrade firmware.

Dennis
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post #747 of 1994 Old 06-03-2010, 06:28 PM
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Yep, just waiting for the serial cable in the mail.
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post #748 of 1994 Old 06-04-2010, 01:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avmjt View Post

Yep, just waiting for the serial cable in the mail.

Which one did you order? I'm curious because I am hesitant to use what I have on hand - I going from a USB to DB9 converter, then a gender changer (female to female) then the actual serial rs232 DB9 -I hate having this many conversion/adaptors, because I think that increases the liklihood of problems getting a good connection.
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post #749 of 1994 Old 06-04-2010, 08:01 AM
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I definitely do not prefer the conversions/adapters either, but unfortunately that is the only route I have available to me. Among the 9 computers here, none have serial ports, so I picked up the USB->Serial adapter from Best Buy (when I happened to see the JVC) and now I'm waiting for the F->M gender changer in the mail. The total will come to around $45 for something that really should only be a few bucks, but it seems that today's computers don't have serial ports. At least the investment will give me a serial port on any computer via USB from now on. I hope the firmware update software confirms a sufficient connection before attempting the update.
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post #750 of 1994 Old 06-05-2010, 12:00 AM
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Something like this might be another option for you guys http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-018-_-Product That and running a dual boot pc with xp and win 7.

Speeking of registering units i suppose now that i have a new replacment i will have to go back and register that unit as well.

avmit thanks for posting your impressions they are most welcome, i wouldn't worry about a couple of grouchy ole farts that have nothing better to do then rip on people for thier impressions in this thread.
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