Official InFocus Sp8602 owners thread. - Page 31 - AVS Forum
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post #901 of 1997 Old 09-16-2010, 08:09 PM
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Oh yea. Marantz is out of the projector business. They have no new or refurbished stock left.

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post #902 of 1997 Old 09-16-2010, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

I think that in relatively cheap projectors like the Infocus, a weak point compared to some better stuff, is the lens. Keep your panties on girls. Given the relatively small diameter of the lens I would think best optical performance would occur with the chip image centered in the lens. Even with larger diameter, more expensive lenses of higher quality, often sharpness is lost as one moves the chip image just a few clicks of lens shiftaway from lens cnter. You can try this with some text or grid lines. See what happens. Do the lines thicken a tad as you use a lot of lens shift. Getting 15% more ANSI really would be unnoticeable. It only appears 5% brighter. I wouldn`t trade this against sharpness at the edges but to each his or her own. Really. Do what you like. We are talking small differences here. When i am watching something like a football game, I just enjoy. If you stop watching and just want to analyze what you have and feel it ain`t good enough because of perceived weaknesses, stop watching. Do something else.

Actually the sharpness from the cheapo lens on our cheap PJs is just one of the strong points about the SP8602 Mark, along with very good color and pretty darn good black levels. I'm sure glad picture quality isn't measured by price. It's nice to see prices starting to come down on some of the more expensive PJs now as well like the Samsungs etc.

Ken
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post #903 of 1997 Old 09-17-2010, 05:28 AM
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Wow Mark, call Infocus cheap, and call me a girl. I sure as hell don't appreciate it. I don't know who you're used to tallking to, but I'm pretty sure I could give you a run for your money in the ring my boy. If this is the the nature of the beast, only Infocus owners should be post here. Don't tell us to do something else. If we want to talk SP8602, we damn well will. With your supposed wealth of knowledge and 11K posts, do something useful; buy an SP8602 and post something positive here for once.
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post #904 of 1997 Old 09-17-2010, 06:34 AM
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Read the post again. I am not dumping on the projector. Compared to the $50K plus projectors, the Infocus is cheap, just like many many others. It doesn`t have a $7K lens. It doesn`t have as good as lens as say some $10K plus projectors. But its descent for its price class.

Expensive lenses I can safely say are better than cheap lenses. In one parameter, for example, they are larger in diameter and have a larger sweet spot. You can use a little lens shift with absolutely no adverse effects but even then you can`t use more than a little.

That`s why I said keep you panties on girls. Because I didn`t want anyone to be insulted because I wasn`t insulting the projector. I consider projectors in this price class to be cheap vs the extermely expensive price class. Below the $5K MSRP level, there is cheap, very cheap, extremely cheap. Maybe I should say inexpensive.

And my body guard would absolutely pulverize you so come on. but I won`t watch. Yuk Yuk

BTW. Do you have something against women? Do you have a problem with transexuals?
Come on man, yell at me when I am guilty and for now keep your panties on. Its an expression, that`s all, not an insult.

Northlander. One of the strengths of any single chip DLP projector better be its perceived sharpness. Could the projector be sharper? Yes it could. Could the black levels be better. Hell yes. Black levels on every digital projector are not great. Color on single chip DLP bulb lit projectors? Depends on what you mean. Certainly can be calibrated but I am not going elsewhere in this discussion.

Now I use a single chip DLP projector and the black levels suck. The projector does use a much better lens than the Infocus. But so what? Compared to the lens used in the Infocus it is a much more expensive lens but so what?

The Infocus is a relatively in expensive projector for projectors above $3K. Projectors toward the low end of this price class must use less expensive parts than projectors significantly above this price level. My post says nothing about performance for the buck or anything else. I will repeat what you guys are insulted about where no insult was or is intended. It is a relativelt inexpensive projector and it doesn`t use an expensive lens. Honey. Its a cheap projector and it uses a cheap lens. So what?

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post #905 of 1997 Old 09-17-2010, 07:58 AM
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Hi,

I value Mark's knowledge, but I think he could have chosen his words more carefully. If we can move past this I think realistically we all know that there are trade-offs in performance that are needed to reach InFocus' price point.

With this in mind, I am wondering whether there are really any new (not refurbished) bright DPL projectors close to the InFocus price point, or less, that are superior in overall performance? For example, is there a competively priced DPL projector that can project a better image on a 120" screen in a light-controlled room?

Returning to the brightness, sharpness, vertical shift issue, I look forward to any tests avjmt can perform to investigate this relationship in order to determine whether there is an optimum vertical mounting distance and corresponding vertical shift. From Mark's remarks it seems that if there were any loss in sharpness due to vertical shift that this would likely only occur on the edges. So with varying vertical shift there might be some changes in sharpness at the top or the bottom?

If it turns out there is no meaningful reduction in sharpness, it would appear that mounting close to the ceiling would have advantages in slightly greater brightness and in moving the projector a little further from the audience (assuming the 130% maximum offset is not exceeded).

Thanks.

Larry
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post #906 of 1997 Old 09-17-2010, 09:54 AM
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Thanks Larry. Word choice may have been poor, but no bad intent. And I was trying to answer your question. Let`s think about lens shift a bit. If you turn down the contrast and look into the lens, you will see the chip image. Its not a point. The edges of the chip will be offset from center. As one uses lens shift, the chip image will more into the curvature area of the lens. The edge closest to the edge of the lens in the direction of the move would be under the worst condition relative to the others. The edges closest to the center would suffer far less and might be no worse than the original edges perhaps now occupying the location of the extreme edges when the chip is centered.

Now as to a recommendation. Right now on ebay a Korean distributor has dumped some Samsung projectors to several US box houses. The Samsung was a $10K projector with a really good lens. You can pick up new Gray stock for $4K. And you will find US models from dealers at around $6K. That would be my recommendation over the Infocus. But please don`t read this as deprecating on the Infocus. Lots of projectors are worse and lots are better. And prices range from $1K to over $100K so this is to be expected.

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post #907 of 1997 Old 09-17-2010, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Thanks Larry. Word choice may have been poor, but no bad intent. And I was trying to answer your question. Let`s think about lens shift a bit. If you turn down the contrast and look into the lens, you will see the chip image. Its not a point. The edges of the chip will be offset from center. As one uses lens shift, the chip image will more into the curvature area of the lens. The edge closest to the edge of the lens in the direction of the move would be under the worst condition relative to the others. The edges closest to the center would suffer far less and might be no worse than the original edges perhaps now occupying the location of the extreme edges when the chip is centered.

Now as to a recommendation. Right now on ebay a Korean distributor has dumped some Samsung projectors to several US box houses. The Samsung was a $10K projector with a really good lens. You can pick up new Gray stock for $4K. And you will find US models from dealers at around $6K. That would be my recommendation over the Infocus. But please don`t read this as deprecating on the Infocus. Lots of projectors are worse and lots are better. And prices range from $1K to over $100K so this is to be expected.

Hi Mark,

Thanks for the response.

I think we can safely state that you can't be accused of being an InFocus fanboy, but when making apples to apples comparisons, that is not comparing gray stock to MSRP, it seems that even you concede that the InFocus is the least expensive, highest performing DPL projector in the $5K and lower price point.

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post #908 of 1997 Old 09-17-2010, 09:44 PM
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Over my days I have sold many many Infocus projectors though none recently.

I don`t dislike them at al and I think I would say they represent good value for the money. i like DLPs over DILAs because DLPs have more intrascene contrast and are sharper. Single chip machines can`t have convergence errors by definition. There are certain quality differences among various DLP machines. This has do do with such things as what size and grade DLP chip the machine uses, the quality of the lens, whether a CMS systemis employed, the quality of the video processing, how well the DI is inplemented,just to name some.

i am generally no expert is machines in the $5K class or below. They just don`t have an overall PQ that satidsies me and my PQ priorities. I know very little about machines below $3k. Prices are all over the place and of course valuation must be a street prices and not MSRP. The best single chip DLP on the market below say about $9K and below street is the Samsung SP-A900B and a little behing that but close would be the Runco LS5. i certainly don`t like the Optima 8606 and would chose the Infocus over it. What is the best projector for the street of the Infocus? I am not even sure of what the Infocus streets for.Perhaps someone can PM with the street, we are not allowed to put streets in these threads. but I certainly have not seen many of the projectors out there that street for what the infocus streets at,whatever that is.

I do know that to me there are better pDLP projectors out there but I do recognize these may street for several thousand more. This says nothing about the cost vs PQ of the Infocus. For myself I want something better.Some can be freeking great but there is always better. the point is being happy and satisfied by what you have. but I absolutely don`t cowtow to a thread where eveyone congratulates each other on how great what they bought is.

i came here not to tear Rome down for anybody. I shed some light on optimization of the Infocys. commenting that tweaking it to get 15% more light is really not very meaningful. People feel, 155 more light translates to 155 brighter. It doesn`t. Its an insignificant almost unnoticeable increase in brightness to ones eyes. And to caution against using large amounts of lens shift with inexpensive projectors where the manufacturer has to make severe lens size and quality decisions to meet a price point. I woud caution about using lens shift even on msachines with separate $7K lenses but there you can use a little without any compromises in sharpness etc.But on inexopensive lens machines where lens diameter is comparstively small, be carefull . All DLPs have sharpness going for them and I hate to see this positive atrribute compromised. Those that say there inexpensive machine doesn`t exhibit a sharpness decrease with significant use of lens shift haven`t moved the lens from center off and examined say a test pattern to see the deterioration.

Now why doesn`t smeone attack me again.

I think if you purchased an Infocus you made a fuine price point choice. Whether I think it was the best choice you could have made I really casn`t say for a variety of reasons. This deoends on your viewing evnvironment, your screen size and gain, what you actually paid, what your PQ priorities are, and an examination of all the price point competition.

Have I made myself perfectly clear?

Common.You will feel better. Attack me some more.

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post #909 of 1997 Old 09-18-2010, 05:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Common.You will feel better. Attack me some more.

Hi Mark,

I sincerely feel that your technical remarks have been very helpful. I am sorry that you construed my previous posting as an attack.

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post #910 of 1997 Old 09-18-2010, 08:50 AM
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Larry. I did not consier your post as an attack. Quite the contrary, I found it to be supportive. I am glad to help whenever I can.

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post #911 of 1997 Old 09-27-2010, 09:26 AM
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Hi there,

I am planning on buying a SP8602 very soon and am wondering if anybody has it set up with the custom Chief mount? ( I saw it mentioned somewhere in this thread but can't easily browse all the pages as I post this from my phone)
If yes, is the mount centered over the projector compared to the total projector dimensions? I checked the case drawings in the technical downloads from Infocus but can't make out exactly which holes are used for the ceiling mount. Also does the chief mount come with an additional plate that maybe isn't shown on the chief website? Out of my head the mount # I plan on using is RGA or RMA245. Any help is appreciated!

Oliver
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post #912 of 1997 Old 09-27-2010, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohotos View Post

Hi there,

I am planning on buying a SP8602 very soon and am wondering if anybody has it set up with the custom Chief mount? ( I saw it mentioned somewhere in this thread but can't easily browse all the pages as I post this from my phone)
If yes, is the mount centered over the projector compared to the total projector dimensions? I checked the case drawings in the technical downloads from Infocus but can't make out exactly which holes are used for the ceiling mount. Also does the chief mount come with an additional plate that maybe isn't shown on the chief website? Out of my head the mount # I plan on using is RGA or RMA245. Any help is appreciated!

Oliver

Oliver;

I have a new InFocus mount, part number SP-CEIL-INSTALL (made by Premier for InFocus) for the SP6802 for sale. It has a custom mounting plate made for the SP8602. Please PM me if you are interested.
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post #913 of 1997 Old 09-29-2010, 10:44 AM
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Did Infocus announce anything new at cedia?
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post #914 of 1997 Old 09-30-2010, 04:50 AM
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Did Infocus announce anything new at cedia?

InFocus did not have a booth at CEDIA. I did not see InFocus represented at any other booths. Knoll was at CEDIA but did not display their version of the SP8602.
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post #915 of 1997 Old 10-02-2010, 08:43 AM
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Hi Guys. Many here are enjoying their Infocuses and that is great. Some saw better stuff at Cedia and are planning a switch. Showing a projector at Cedia is not cheap. Actually very expensive. Many companies are not doing well enough now a days to justify spending what it costs to do it right at Cedia. But a small presence at Cedia would be reassuring to their customer base. Whatever.

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post #916 of 1997 Old 10-02-2010, 07:26 PM
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3D gives me a headache so i won't be switching any time soon. I'm very happy with the performance of the SP8602. Don't any of the vendors at Cedia have a dark room to project in ? If i was trying to show off a new pj or screen i would atleast have a portable dark room, it wouldn't cost that much build. Seems like that would be good money spent for advertising if you had a good/new product to show off.
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post #917 of 1997 Old 10-02-2010, 07:32 PM
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Hey guys,

There was talk about the Marantz VP-11S1 and VP-11S2 and also the VP-15S1 in the earlier posts here...

How does the 8602 compare to the Marantz 11S1?

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post #918 of 1997 Old 10-02-2010, 07:48 PM
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Many companies had dark theater rooms that could sit quite a few. Sure is expensive to do this.

Now PLEASE don`t anyone be offended but I think the Marantz VP-11S2 is overall a better projector than the Infocus. not relevant to the question asked, it certainly cost a lot more and is much more substantially built. I furnished one to Greg Rogers for his review in WSR. You can read about it there, a few years ago. bang for the bucks at MSRP for the now discontinued 11S2 (Marantzis out of the projector business now recognizing the market won`t support the price point it wants to build and sell at), the Infocus wins. But i would choose an 11S2 priced right over the Infocus. others could and I am sure will differ.

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post #919 of 1997 Old 10-02-2010, 07:56 PM
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He wasn't asking about the 11S2 Mark, he asked about the 11S1(which came out in what 06 ? at around $20K?) compared to the 8602.

Pologuy i know i've seen some talk in threads of a comparison between the 11S1 and 15S2 which used might be a little closer to the cost of the infocus sry i can't help on this one.
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post #920 of 1997 Old 10-02-2010, 09:25 PM
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You are right. He referred to all three Marantzes in his post but asked specifically about the 11S1. The last Marantz I had was the 11S2. I jst don`t remember much about the 11S1. I had it, but I just don`t remember. Sorry.

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post #921 of 1997 Old 10-02-2010, 10:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thenorthlander View Post

He wasn't asking about the 11S2 Mark, he asked about the 11S1(which came out in what 06 ? at around $20K?) compared to the 8602.

Pologuy i know i've seen some talk in threads of a comparison between the 11S1 and 15S2 which used might be a little closer to the cost of the infocus sry i can't help on this one.

LOL, it's all good...

I just have the chance to get a Marantz 11S1 for the same price as a InFocus 8602 - so I was wondering...

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post #922 of 1997 Old 10-08-2010, 06:51 AM
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My SP8602 should is on order and should arrive in the next two weeks. Just to be sure, when ceiling mounted the top of the screen is at the same height as the lens center if no lens shift is used? So if I would mount it so the lens is 10" from the ceiling my screen would be at the same 10" distance from ceiling?
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post #923 of 1997 Old 10-08-2010, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
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My SP8602 should is on order and should arrive in the next two weeks. Just to be sure, when ceiling mounted the top of the screen is at the same height as the lens center if no lens shift is used? So if I would mount it so the lens is 10" from the ceiling my screen would be at the same 10" distance from ceiling?

Hi,

No, this projector has a minimum vertical offset of 105%.

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This projector has a vertical offset that is a minimum of 105% and a maximum of about 130%. So for a ceiling mounted projector the center of the lens must be mounted between 5% and 30% over the top of the screen. A 100" diagonal screen has a height of 49", so the minimum vertical offset is 2.45" and the maximum offset is 14.7" above the top of the screen.

Refer to page 8 of the owner's manual.

Larry
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post #924 of 1997 Old 10-08-2010, 07:26 AM
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Thanks Larry. That should work perfectly in my setup, means I can mount the projector as close as possible to the ceiling.
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post #925 of 1997 Old 10-08-2010, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohotos View Post

Thanks Larry. That should work perfectly in my setup, means I can mount the projector as close as possible to the ceiling.

Hi,

There may actually be an advantage in increased brightness from using a mounting position closer to the maximum vertical offset of 130%. According to Mark there might be a loss in sharpness at the top edge of the image by increasing the vertical offset, but so far no one has noticed a problem with just casual viewing. It would be instructive if an owner could test for any trade-offs between brightness and sharpness with varying mounting height.

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Returning to the brightness, sharpness, vertical shift issue, I look forward to any tests avjmt can perform to investigate this relationship in order to determine whether there is an optimum vertical mounting distance and corresponding vertical shift. From Mark's remarks it seems that if there were any loss in sharpness due to vertical shift that this would likely only occur on the edges. So with varying vertical shift there might be some changes in sharpness at the top or the bottom?

If it turns out there is no meaningful reduction in sharpness, it would appear that mounting close to the ceiling would have advantages in slightly greater brightness and in moving the projector a little further from the audience (assuming the 130% maximum offset is not exceeded).

Thanks.

Larry

Larry
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post #926 of 1997 Old 10-08-2010, 09:24 AM
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Looking back at reviews and some notes, the S2 used the DC4 chip, and the S1 used the DC3 chip. The ANSI CR and the on of CRs were higher but not dramatically so. Enough to notice but no enough to force anyne to dump there S1 in favor of an S2. that`s about all I remember.

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post #927 of 1997 Old 10-13-2010, 07:44 AM
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Looks like bad news for the SP8602. Just heard back from my dealer that my order was canceled by Infocus as the projector is end of life. I had planned my whole setup around this projector, any suggestions for a replacement? My budget is around 3k.
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post #928 of 1997 Old 10-13-2010, 08:28 AM
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What does that mean?. They have a new model coming? They are leaving the market for this price point? Tthey have sold whatever the production run was and sales are so slow now they don`t justify another production run? It could mean many things. Most probably not that good. They weren`t at Cedia trying to show the projector against the competition or trying to attract new dealers and customer buzz. Of course evey company has reasons for showing or not showing, most of them financially driven.

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markhaflich@yahoo.com
call me at: 240 876 2536
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post #929 of 1997 Old 10-13-2010, 08:35 AM
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The dealer email said "no replacement available" so it looks bad.
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post #930 of 1997 Old 10-13-2010, 08:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryChanin View Post

Hi,

According to Mark there might be a loss in sharpness at the top edge of the image by increasing the vertical offset,
Larry

That is incorrect. On a typical design probably, but not the way it is on the SP8602. Traditionally InFocus projectors for the longest time had a large vertical offset (around 37%) with no lens shift available and a lot of potential customers complained about the lack of placement flexibility. So rather than getting rid of the offset, they added a lens shift that allows you to reduce the offset. This is why with "maximum" lens shift the PJ is actually brighter, where as with typical PJ's it usually gets dimmer. So with the SP8602 when lens shift is used at the highest setting, it's like no lens shift at all (maximum brightness and sharpness).
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Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

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