Official InFocus Sp8602 owners thread. - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 1995 Old 03-04-2010, 11:32 PM
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"...it may be one of the few new projectors that can really give the JVC RS35 a run for the money."

He did say that, but that's puzzling because earlier he says

"The SP8602 has made a dramatic improvement in black level performance over the older IN83 (which was not good in that regard), still, it's no match for the JVC. Period."

Noah
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post #182 of 1995 Old 03-05-2010, 12:27 AM
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Noah. Its not exactly like scientific data which must be rationalized and fit together to find the national treasure. Its a human review work product. All the lines may not fit nor be consistent. Any DLP will have certain advantages over DLIA and any DILA will have certain advantages over DLP. Even wuth a DI, a DLP projector won`t have very good blacks. The DLP division of TI has pretty much had it with respect to any further work on say a DC5. Front propjector consumer markets are way way too small to justiffy the large costs in chip development and production. DLP has had it as well as other technologies for rear projection. The flat panel rules.

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post #183 of 1995 Old 03-05-2010, 12:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Its not exactly like scientific data which must be rationalized and fit together to find the national treasure. Its a human review work product. All the lines may not fit nor be consistent.

I really like how you surmised that. Still, Noah makes a good point. What is it that we are to really believe. If it can really give the RS35 a run for the money, then how could it not even be in the running to begin with? You can't have it both ways.


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DLP has had it as well as other technologies for rear projection. The flat panel rules.

What's your take on the future of front projection?
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post #184 of 1995 Old 03-05-2010, 02:13 AM
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Thanks for pointing me in the direction of Art's review.

Yep, it is a little non-committal, but I think he's still having to hedge his bets a little because of the lumens issue.

It's not clear, but I think he's trying to explain what is a difficult comparison - the InFocus does give the JVC a run for its money, but only if you take into account (and you surely have to) the big difference in price tag.

So it is clearly not as good black levels wise and is slightly behind in some other areas, but overall (and dependent on actual real lumens) it isn't actually far enough behind to not be a serious competitor at the price.

Not sure about the "spare change" comment though, because in Europe the IN83 is actually coming in more expensive than the new SP unit.

Still, Art's review sounds promising.
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post #185 of 1995 Old 03-05-2010, 02:16 AM
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Talking of what 'brightest level' is. Can someone tell me does this also mean the reviewer is cranking the Brightness setting in the menu up to 100 as well, opening the Iris to full, adding Brilliant Color and putting the projector on high power? Or some of the above?
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post #186 of 1995 Old 03-05-2010, 04:16 AM
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Your lumens should go up if you change from warmest to warm. I don't believe gamma has much effect on peak light output, rather it determines how fast the light output rises out of black, and can change aspects such as shadow detail.

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Originally Posted by luelf21 View Post

So color temp changes the lumen output that much (250 lumens difference). Per Oliver, for me to get a 6500k image, I should use "warm" color temp, and gamma set to CRT. Based on that, would my lumen output drop? (my color temp is at warmest, and gamma set to film currently.)?

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post #187 of 1995 Old 03-05-2010, 05:46 AM
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FPs will remain a niche marketwith sales continuing to be dwarfed by flat panels. We are approaching the day when screens will be active and be shipped like present screens, rolled up. They are here now but very very expensive. This will change and I expect in 5 years or so, we will see present sized HT screens being active (no projector needed) and costing maybe $10K to $15K. But I am just guessing.

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post #188 of 1995 Old 03-05-2010, 07:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

"...it may be one of the few new projectors that can really give the JVC RS35 a run for the money."

He did say that, but that's puzzling because earlier he says

"The SP8602 has made a dramatic improvement in black level performance over the older IN83 (which was not good in that regard), still, it's no match for the JVC. Period."

He's comparing the blacks (won't touch the rs35...period) and also the projector as a whole including brightness, color, etc... (giving it a run for the money)
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post #189 of 1995 Old 03-05-2010, 07:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

"...it may be one of the few new projectors that can really give the JVC RS35 a run for the money."

He did say that, but that's puzzling because earlier he says

"The SP8602 has made a dramatic improvement in black level performance over the older IN83 (which was not good in that regard), still, it's no match for the JVC. Period."

So I guess in your opinion black level is the ONLY aspect of picture quality that is important? ok, but not everyone feels that way.
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post #190 of 1995 Old 03-05-2010, 07:48 AM
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[quote=avmjt;18253605]I really like how you surmised that. Still, Noah makes a good point. What is it that we are to really believe. If it can really give the RS35 a run for the money, then how could it not even be in the running to begin with? You can't have it both ways.

YOU are the only one that said it is "not in the running from the beginning", not Art. Art just said the black level is better on the RS35, most informed enthusiasts know that black level is only 1 aspect of many when it comes to picture quality and projector performance. The RS35 will have better black level than multi 100K DCI projectors, but not a better picture quality.
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post #191 of 1995 Old 03-05-2010, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Noah. Its not exactly like scientific data which must be rationalized and fit together to find the national treasure. Its a human review work product. All the lines may not fit nor be consistent. Any DLP will have certain advantages over DLIA and any DILA will have certain advantages over DLP. Even wuth a DI, a DLP projector won`t have very good blacks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by luelf21 View Post

He's comparing the blacks (won't touch the rs35...period) and also the projector as a whole including brightness, color, etc... (giving it a run for the money)

Quote:
Originally Posted by avmjt View Post

I really like how you surmised that. Still, Noah makes a good point. What is it that we are to really believe. If it can really give the RS35 a run for the money, then how could it not even be in the running to begin with? You can't have it both ways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikenificent1 View Post

YOU are the only one that said it is "not in the running from the beginning", not Art. Art just said the black level is better on the RS35, most informed enthusiasts know that black level is only 1 aspect of many when it comes to picture quality and projector performance. The RS35 will have better black level than multi 100K DCI projectors, but not a better picture quality.

This is were I get frustrated with Art's reviews, he tends to drift with his comparisons. The first and foremost feature that Art weighs is black level, more so than any other aspect of PJ's. It's why he owns both the JVC and the Epson, arguably the leaders in black level. So when he says the SP8602 can compete with the JVC one would assume that also means black level, not everything but. It also gets frustrating where he's not consistent with his comparisons. He'll rave about the improvement in black level but then will say it's only marginally better than the previous model that had weak bl's.
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post #192 of 1995 Old 03-05-2010, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

DLP has had it as well as other technologies for rear projection. The flat panel rules.

I guess you haven't seen that Free, who has an RS35 and a Sim MICO50, prefers the latter in all respects, including blacks.

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Originally Posted by Mikenificent1 View Post

So I guess in your opinion black level is the ONLY aspect of picture quality that is important? ok, but not everyone feels that way.

No and yes.

No in that of course a good picture requires many areas of competence.

Yes in that there are many pj's that do everything well, or at least good enough for me, except black level.

Re my original comment, what was puzzling was that between the initial comment about blacks and the competing with the RS35 comment at the end, I don't recollect any high points that would justify the latter statement.

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post #193 of 1995 Old 03-05-2010, 10:54 AM
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NOAH. Read my sentence. I said its over as you well know for DLP in rear projection. You know, flat panels instead of thin rear projection DLPs. I am not talking front projection. The Sim is a lot more expensive than the JVC and it should be better. I haven`t followed the whole thread.

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post #194 of 1995 Old 03-05-2010, 10:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikenificent1 View Post

YOU are the only one that said it is "not in the running from the beginning", not Art.

Thanks. What's been discussed after the fact has clarified that for me. At the end of the sentence when comparing black levels he ends with "it's no match for the JVC. Period".

That final "Period" after is very elusive. It can easily lead one to believe that JVC black levels make SP8602 the "no match for the JVC" as a final verdict overall that trumped all other areas of the comparison. Although I was mislead by this, I was not the only one. There were several others whom were confused by this as well as myself.
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post #195 of 1995 Old 03-06-2010, 07:59 AM
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Semantics, semantics.

It seems you either pick the projector with the best black levels that is less bright and the colors have a little less "pop and wow" factor, or, you sacrifice a degree of black level and get a brighter image and more pop.

In digital projectors better black levels always mean sacrificing brightness, and some folks like that really bright image and care less about blacks. While others are willing to go for a less sharp, more natural looking image with the best blacks.

It's all ying and yang... you get more of one and less of the other. No projector has it all. You decide what matters most to you and get that projector, so the bottom line is that the SP 8602 will be favorably comparable to the RS 35 in that both projectors offer overall outstanding quality, with one upping the other in some aspects.

It's a win-win anyway you look at it.
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post #196 of 1995 Old 03-06-2010, 11:32 AM
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Anyone care to look and see the bare lamp part number is so we can possibly get them for $150 instead of $350 for the entire lamp assembly?

I'm finding some Philips 260W UHP lamps for $125.
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post #197 of 1995 Old 03-06-2010, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [Olivier] View Post

Hello, first, sorry for my bad english, i am a french owner of the sp8602 and it is my first digital projector.
The only digital projectors i was able to compare with it were lcd ( epson 8500 and mitsubishi 6800 ).
But i won't be able impartial enough because i don't like lcd technology, that is why i choose dlp.
Otherwise i was the owner of many crt, my last is the electrohome 9000lc, and to compare it, the sp8602 is a little superior in all domains exept black of course, but for me who was an user of crt, black level of the sp8602 are really acceptable.
In fact the biggest difficult for me was the transition between an analogic picture, more "cinema like" and the digital picture more "plasma like" for dlp.
After that i have to admit that out of the box after rapids settings, the image was impressive with more sharpness an much more details in the backgroung, many details i wasn't able to notice with my electrohome.
The brightness is enough to fill my 136 diagonal screen.
My first impression on this unit is really good and i will try to calibrate it this week when it will be on ceiling position.
For now the terms wow, pop and razor describe well this unit.


Hello Olivier, could you post some screenshots ?? To have a little bit impression of your Infocus sp 8602.
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post #198 of 1995 Old 03-08-2010, 06:36 AM
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Art has a "preview" review of the SP8602 up now at:
http://www.projectorreviews.com/blog...t-look-review/

When looking at the only screenshot comparison there, the W6000 seems to have a lot more more pop to it. Not much matters at this point because Art's sample did not have picture adjustment settings.
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post #199 of 1995 Old 03-08-2010, 07:32 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avmjt View Post

Art has a "preview" review of the SP8602 up now at:
http://www.projectorreviews.com/blog...t-look-review/

When looking at the only screenshot comparison there, the W6000 seems to have a lot more more pop to it. Not much matters at this point because Art's sample did not have picture adjustment settings.

That's been up since September.
I know he's working on it now though.

Scott
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post #200 of 1995 Old 03-08-2010, 01:10 PM
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Here is the latest update from Art

http://www.projectorreviews.com/blog...review-update/
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post #201 of 1995 Old 03-08-2010, 01:23 PM
 
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I was hoping we'd be seeing the spec'd 1100-1300 lumens in best mode, or at least 900-1000. Barely cracking that in brightest mode? Didn't InFocus have a history of accurate lumen ratings similar to JVC, maybe I'm not remembering correctly? The difference in brightness at the extreme ends of the zoom range is dissapointing to hear as well.

Combined with blacks inferior to LCD (Epson), looks like I'll be passing on this one. My W6000 will have to hold me over longer than I was hoping for- someone needs to improve DLP quickly!
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post #202 of 1995 Old 03-09-2010, 05:37 AM
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Today's Infocus is a totally different company than it was before. New owner and new team.

We cannot take anything they did in the past for granted.
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post #203 of 1995 Old 03-09-2010, 05:57 AM
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I guess we should be asking where the old Infocus team are now working...

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post #204 of 1995 Old 03-09-2010, 06:12 AM
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Some of the best went to Planar. But Planar seems to have left the home projector market, though their Runco division has inherited the former Planner 8130/8150 models. Not sure if the Planner engineers are now with Runco though.
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post #205 of 1995 Old 03-09-2010, 06:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f300v10 View Post

Some of the best went to Planar. But Planar seems to have left the home projector market, though their Runco division has inherited the former Planner 8130/8150 models. Not sure if the Planner engineers are now with Runco though.

They are...at least a lot of them.
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post #206 of 1995 Old 03-09-2010, 09:25 AM
 
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That's too bad, because I don't see them targeting the same market as old InFocus, at least not in the same way.
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post #207 of 1995 Old 03-09-2010, 11:33 AM
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I can't wait for Jason to review a unit. I'm refreshing this thread every single day. I'm keeping a close eye on the 8500UB, W6000, and the SP8602. I want much better black levels than my IN83 in a fully light controlled room, but I don't want to sacrifice the amazing pop the IN83 has with mixed scenes.
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post #208 of 1995 Old 03-09-2010, 12:51 PM
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i have mine tommorow i cant wait to see the diffrence between that and my current infocus

matthew price
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post #209 of 1995 Old 03-09-2010, 01:07 PM
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i have mine tommorow i cant wait to see the diffrence between that and my current infocus

..um, well, what is it?? Congratulations by the way. I can't wait to hear your impressions.
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post #210 of 1995 Old 03-09-2010, 01:47 PM
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I will let you know Thursday

matthew price
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