Sharp xv-z17000 : New dlp full hd 3d projector - Page 18 - AVS Forum
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post #511 of 551 Old 07-09-2011, 06:13 PM
 
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Human vision is enabled by three primary modes depending upon the lighting levels:
• Photopic vision: Vision under well-lit conditions, which provides for color perception, and which functions primarily due to cone cells in the eye.

• Mesopic vision: A combination of photopic vision and scotopic vision in low lighting, which functions due to a combination of rod and cone cells in the eye.

• Scotopic vision: Monochromatic vision in very low light, which functions primarily due to rod cells in the eye.

In summary, to see accurate color we need a bright projector. This rule applies equally well for 2D and 3D.
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post #512 of 551 Old 07-09-2011, 06:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shinksma View Post

No ghosting that I have seen that I can't atttribute to the source material. (I have noted in the 3D Content forum that I can see some distinct ghosting in Drive Angry 3D in the left eyepoint, but only in very specific camera views - it comes and goes exactly with the camera cuts. If anyone can check that out, I'd appreciate it. See my post in the 3D Content forum for timestamps.)

Conan specifically asked for PS3 GAMES, not movies, a lot of people also want to know the answer to this question. If you haven't played games with the PJ then you shouldn't imply that you did. Drive Angry 3D is a movie.
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post #513 of 551 Old 07-12-2011, 09:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shinksma View Post

Any owners able to report whether the XpanD X103 glasses work with the Z17000? Any difference in performance from the Sharp glasses?

I have the Sharp XV-Z17000 3D projector and a pair of the Xpand X103 glasses, and have noticed that the 3D image when viewed through the X103 glasses has a distinct pinkish hue compared to the original sharp glasses and some slight quantising effects on areas of smooth greyscale changes. I analysed the problem and have discovered that the X103 glasses are switching 1ms too early compared to the sharp glasses, and therefore chopping off part of the last green segment in each frame.

So, unfortunately for the moment, I would suggest only using the Sharp glasses with this projector. This projector outputs the custom Sharp 3D IR protocol (the same as the Sharp TVs I'm told) and no other direct manufacturer glasses work with the Sharp IR protocol.

I'm told that 'soon to be released' new XPAND and REALD IR shutter glasses will correctly support the Sharp 3D IR protocol. Fingers crossed.
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post #514 of 551 Old 07-12-2011, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wnielsenbb View Post

[snip]3. Rainbows. Being Sensitive it's a pain in the arse seeing them, but it's incouraging to hear that the Sharp has little ghosting. How has your experience been?
I have no problems with my 720P which has a slower wheel than the Sharp, but that is up to you to decide of course. The wheel is 5x like your W5000.

I've done some testing of the Sharp XV-Z17000 and have found that when it switches into 3D mode, the colorwheel speed is actually 6x, which will further reduce perception of any rainbow effect.

Since this projector is DLP, crosstalk (ghosting) is extremely low - this is a separate problem from the rainbow effect.
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post #515 of 551 Old 07-12-2011, 10:04 PM
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Hi All,

I've been testing the Sharp XV-Z17000 projector with some 50Hz 3D content and have noticed some strange cadence problems. It seems that even though the incoming 3D source content is 50Hz 3D (50Hz Blu-ray 3D, side-by-side 50Hz 3D video) the glasses are actually switching at 120Hz (which would require the projector to internally convert the 50Hz video to 60Hz).

Has anyone else noticed this?
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post #516 of 551 Old 07-13-2011, 08:38 AM
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Does this projector support 1080p24 3D source material?
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post #517 of 551 Old 07-13-2011, 12:07 PM
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Thanks guys for sharing your experiences with this projector. I would love to hear from flint and others that actually own this projector and get your thoughts on its 2D performance. Are you equally satisfied with its 2D performance? Thanks.

Also, I do have another question about whether this projector supports 1080p24 3D source material?
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post #518 of 551 Old 07-13-2011, 01:15 PM
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I have had the projector for several months now and have been very happy with both the 3D and 2D picture. I have had it professionally calibrated and even he was amazed by the picture. The blacks look great to me but they probably are not as deep as the JVC's and Sony's. Skin tones look dead on. 3D is amazing and bright. No problem with a dim picture. The projector does accept 1080p24 source material in 2D. I believe it does the same in 3D but will check on my projector. Placement of the projector is difficult since there is no lense shift but it is worth a look, especially with the price coming down. At this point the Sharp glasses work best as other manufactures introduce color changes in the picture. The Sharp glasses can be had for under 100 if you look online.
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post #519 of 551 Old 07-13-2011, 01:26 PM
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Thanks for the quick reply flint. I, as most, want to hear from real folks that have the projector like yourself. Sometimes we get caught up in the technical specs of one versus the other with no real-world view or perspective. Often times these technical nuances are not detectable by the human eye, so it's nice to hear that you are a happy customer of the Sharp for both 2D and 3D.
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post #520 of 551 Old 07-13-2011, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flint View Post

Modest HT
...
3D is amazing and bright. No problem with a dim picture. The projector does accept 1080p24 source material in 2D. I believe it does the same in 3D but will check on my projector.
...

I can not share your brightness optimism. 3D is much dimmer then 2D it requires the PJ to be in Normal Mode + the brightest Picture mode (Game) which is not very good for movies. The current HDMI standard is a limitation for 3D gaming, it only accepts 1080p24 no 1080p60 which is very bad for convienient gaming. The active glasses are too heavy and the frames are too thick which crushes all the fun. I watched Avatar once, some IMAX movie, played a bit Witcher2 both in 1080p24 and 720p60. Thats it, the glasses are not used anymore, I have much more fun in 2D. These are my notes after playing a bit with Sharp, but its not Sharp's fault, I think, the 3D we currently get is a marketing ********, well you know what I mean,

Greets.
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post #521 of 551 Old 07-13-2011, 03:43 PM
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Helcik
Do you actually have the projector or are you theorizing? 3d needs to be watched with the dynamic picture setting. On my 114 in Seumour screen it is bright. I do not use the projector for gaming and do not use the gaming setting. As to the glasses they are no heavier than the expands and I found them to be more comfortable. Glasses are the price you pay for 3d.
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post #522 of 551 Old 07-13-2011, 03:55 PM
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1080p24 is the ONLY 1080 3d mode, so yes, this projector supports it.
My acer 720p projector is a fair bit brighter, but yeah, 3d cuts the brightness a lot. A high gain screen really makes it work though. My Vutec Silverstar is amazing for 3D. For pc gaming so far the only choice to get 1080p60 per eye is dual projector passive, and that is something of a pain.
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post #523 of 551 Old 07-13-2011, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flint View Post

Helcik
Do you actually have the projector or are you theorizing? 3d needs to be watched with the dynamic picture setting. On my 114 in Seumour screen it is bright. I do not use the projector for gaming and do not use the gaming setting. As to the glasses they are no heavier than the expands and I found them to be more comfortable. Glasses are the price you pay for 3d.

yes, I own the PJ, otherwise how could I play witcher2 in 3d? ;-)
I did not evaluate Dynamic PS, as the most brighness you get from the Game PS, I suppose. The Game PS was barely enough for watching Avatar, I doubt I would get the same with Dynamic, but will try it to be sure.

The passive glasses are much bigger and lighter, make no buzz, no thick frame, so NO, that is not the price you have to pay for 3d.
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post #524 of 551 Old 07-13-2011, 04:10 PM
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But with passive glasses you lose half the resolution. How large is your screen by the way. Sharp does recommend that dynamic mode be used for 3D. I will be interested to hear if it works better for you with 3d. Are you happy with the sharpness and color of your 2d picture?
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post #525 of 551 Old 07-14-2011, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flint View Post

Helcik
Do you actually have the projector or are you theorizing? 3d needs to be watched with the dynamic picture setting. On my 114 in Seumour screen it is bright. I do not use the projector for gaming and do not use the gaming setting. As to the glasses they are no heavier than the expands and I found them to be more comfortable. Glasses are the price you pay for 3d.

does sharp recommend that you watch 3d in the dynamic mode? or did you just discover that on your own? i've never had a professional calibration. does he calibrate for all modes?
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post #526 of 551 Old 07-14-2011, 09:49 AM
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Calibration can and should be done for all modes and can be done for 3D as well. If you read Art Feierman's review at projectorreviews.com he measured the precalibrated lumens of all modes and found dynamic to have the same lumens as the game mode. The difference was in color temp, game being farther from ideal. The Sharp manual says to use game mode for a "sharper picture"--artifacts introduced? and for out of sync video. Most reviewers seem to use dynamic mode as well for 3d. The perceived brighter image of game vs dynamic is probably a result of color temp difference, but that is my own thought. Sharp rep I spoke with when I got the projector recommended dynamic for 3D and that is what I have used.
Hope that helps answer your questions...
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post #527 of 551 Old 07-14-2011, 04:33 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helcik View Post

The passive glasses are much bigger and lighter, make no buzz, no thick frame, so NO, that is not the price you have to pay for 3d.

Adding up his unique claims, and now the boner that active glasses "buzz" is enough for me to discount all his posts.
He is also confused in bringing the active/passive "wars" where none exist.
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post #528 of 551 Old 07-14-2011, 04:52 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helcik View Post

yes, I own the PJ, otherwise how could I play witcher2 in 3d? ;-)
.
.
The passive glasses are much bigger and lighter, make no buzz, no thick frame, so NO, that is not the price you have to pay for 3d.

Here is your passive display description by an expert reviewer for the Vizio flat panel:

SAWTOOTH and GRAINY
-----------------------
"By its nature, 3DTV with passive glasses provides only half of HD's 1080p vertical resolution to each eye (see A Passive Approach on page 16). Nevertheless, images from a good, full HD 3D source at an appropriate viewing distance didn't look soft in any way. However, there's another price to pay. If you sit too close to the screen, at a distance that might otherwise be perfectly satisfying with HD material viewed in 2D, you'll notice that the image is broken up by thin black horizontal lines that separate the rows of pixels. Details also take on subtle but distinct saw-toothed edges, and the image as a whole looks slightly grainy. These lines may be inherent in passive 3D HDTV technology. We suspect that they are, but until we see other examples of the breed, we can't say for certain."
http://www.hometheater.com/content/v...cd-hdtv-page-4

Now just think what this 540 picture would look further magnified to 120"?
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post #529 of 551 Old 07-14-2011, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFiFun View Post

Adding up his unique claims, and now the boner that active glasses "buzz" is enough for me to discount all his posts.
He is also confused in bringing the active/passive "wars" where none exist.

Ahhhh.... there is balance in the Universe.

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post #530 of 551 Old 07-15-2011, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFiFun View Post

Adding up his unique claims, and now the boner that active glasses "buzz" is enough for me to discount all his posts.
He is also confused in bringing the active/passive "wars" where none exist.

you can discount me however you like on this and other threads, but you are not forced to spam the threads because of that, so pls, stop doing that. my glasses buzz, period. If you want to send me yours I would be happy to switch.

On the other hand on passive vs active wars, its again some kind of compromise, it has clear advantage regarding the glasses, but lower resolution. But you know some of the PJ owners enjoy their 720p, too. What I am sure the tech improves on both active and passive side. If I would choose one of them now - my answer is none. But this may easily change in the future. Let's hope.
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post #531 of 551 Old 07-15-2011, 11:12 AM
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Ahhhh.... there is balance in the Universe.

yes sure, having just positive comments on this thread, who is the balance keeper, then?
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post #532 of 551 Old 07-15-2011, 12:42 PM
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Quick question for those who own the projector.

For individuals who decide to turn the glasses off during a 3D movie and watch in 2D, how well does it actually work in practice? Any major effects on picture quality or ? I do realize the glasses must still be worn even though they are powered down.

Very appealing feature in my book.

Curious to hear first hand thoughts on this.

Thanks!
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post #533 of 551 Old 07-15-2011, 02:02 PM
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you switch the PJ into 2D and wear off the glasses. Why to keep that binocular glasses on your nose if you want 2D?
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post #534 of 551 Old 07-15-2011, 02:50 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helcik View Post
On the other hand on passive vs active wars, its again some kind of compromise, it has clear advantage regarding the glasses, but lower resolution. But you know some of the PJ owners enjoy their 720p, too. What I am sure the tech improves on both active and passive side. If I would choose one of them now - my answer is none. But this may easily change in the future. Let's hope.
I willingly take hits to bring in a balanced, knowledgeable and factual based perspective.
You should have carefully researched both the glasses and the projector before purchasing. And involved your wife. New technology is risky. Instead you ranted! Others asked if you really owned the projector. Were not stupid.
Why like don't you sell it and learn your lesson?

I did a Google search for 3D glasses buzz and got zero hits.
Many AVS members are quit critical and we would have heard about any buzz dude. In the meantime you have a rare collectors item.

Again what projector screen or wall are you using?
What color is it? What size is the image?
Just the facts please.
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post #535 of 551 Old 07-15-2011, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helcik View Post
you switch the PJ into 2D and wear off the glasses. Why to keep that binocular glasses on your nose if you want 2D?
While I do not own this projector, there is a "feature" where one can turn off the glasses during a 3D movie if they do not like the 3D effect and/or it is not sitting well with them.

This is done by clicking the power button on the glasses two times. What it allows is an individual to watch the movie in 2D while everyone else in the room can still watch it in 3D. The individual who chooses not to watch in 3D must still wear the glasses for the duration of the movie.
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post #536 of 551 Old 07-15-2011, 04:14 PM
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right, in that case it might be beneficiary. Did not try however if that works with Sharp.
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post #537 of 551 Old 07-15-2011, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFiFun View Post
I willingly take hits to bring in a balanced, knowledgeable and factual based perspective.
You should have carefully researched both the glasses and the projector before purchasing. And involved your wife. New technology is risky. Instead you ranted! Others asked if you really owned the projector. Were not stupid.
Why like don't you sell it and learn your lesson?
That is exactly what I did. I did a lot of research. You are however wrong trying to convince me that you can experience the technology just by reading. You need to try it. This is the only way. Hopefully, others agree with me. And again, I involved my wife in choosing a PJ and we got a consensus. No 3d in the current shape. I do not need to learn any lesson, I do not need pay for the learning curve, I just gathered more experience and give back the product. I live in the USA where I can do it without loosing a penny, so what is your point, exactly?

Quote:
I did a Google search for 3D glasses buzz and got zero hits.
What about mine?

Quote:
Many AVS members are quit critical and we would have heard about any buzz dude. In the meantime you have a rare collectors item.
No, I don't. I can return it for replacement, but who cares... I do not want it anyway.

Quote:
Again what projector screen or wall are you using?
What color is it? What size is the image?
Just the facts please.
Elite Screen White 1.1 Gain 120".
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post #538 of 551 Old 07-16-2011, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdxfj View Post

While I do not own this projector, there is a "feature" where one can turn off the glasses during a 3D movie if they do not like the 3D effect and/or it is not sitting well with them.

This is done by clicking the power button on the glasses two times. What it allows is an individual to watch the movie in 2D while everyone else in the room can still watch it in 3D. The individual who chooses not to watch in 3D must still wear the glasses for the duration of the movie.

This features works just as advertised. I haven't watched a entire movie with the glasses in 2D mode, but the few minutes that I watched I didn't notice any artifacts or degradation in picture quality. It's a nice feature to have, especially if you have family members that don't like the 3D effect. Everyone wins.
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post #539 of 551 Old 07-16-2011, 05:53 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helcik View Post
You are however wrong trying to convince me that you can experience the technology just by reading.
What about mine?

No, I don't. I can return it for replacement, but who cares... I do not want it anyway.

Elite Screen White 1.1 Gain 120".
You don't know how good you have it until you loose it.
Other first generation 1080p 3D projectors are much dimmer.
For 3D, a 1.1 screen gain is unacceptable for a 120" image.

I take it back that you are the only person. A "professional" reviewer tested the 17000 with a grey screen and was undecided (coincidentally a new member shortly turned up here at AVS and raised hell.)

For myself 3D took some adjusting over several months. Both eyes need to be in good shape and work together. For some people this is not possible. Exercising and good diet can improve ones health and vision. Just ask Dr. Oz.
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post #540 of 551 Old 07-18-2011, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFiFun View Post

I take it back that you are the only person. A "professional" reviewer tested the 17000 with a grey screen and was undecided (coincidentally a new member shortly turned up here at AVS and raised hell.)

For myself 3D took some adjusting over several months. Both eyes need to be in good shape and work together. For some people this is not possible. Exercising and good diet can improve ones health and vision. Just ask Dr. Oz.

heh, the same goes for ears. Man, did you know that people differentiate in hearing high and low frequencies? One can see the RBE, others not. One can hear glasses buzzing, others not. So, please stop questioning what I can hear or not.

I have just sent the Sharp back. Maybe I was already discouraged, but I noticed RBE in 2D for several times. Then I started to see it more and more.
Now I feel relieved that I have send the sucker back.

HiFiFun, you can now have a lot of fun with yours, you can force people to love the Sharp, you don't have to convince me, anymore, as I do not care anymore ;-)
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