JVC 2011 models & MSRP: RS40 50 60 & HD250. - Page 46 - AVS Forum
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post #1351 of 8828 Old 10-04-2010, 08:19 PM
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Do the HD250 and the RS40 use the same mount? Any recommendations?
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post #1352 of 8828 Old 10-04-2010, 08:26 PM
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Anyone sitting on the fence between the RS40/50 I say get the RS50 because 3-D Porn will look much better with the dual iris and a Xenon Mode

Cheers
Chris

Sony VPL-VW500ES, 150" width 2.35:1 screen, Proud owner of 1 of 399 Enzo Ferrari's in the world, a gorgeous yellow Ferrari 599GTB, + a 1970 Road Runner see it here

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post #1353 of 8828 Old 10-04-2010, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

I'm not sure why others reported that the CMS was better on the RS35. Maybe they made it a tad easier to work with, or maybe they made it track better across the various stimulus levels (i.e. 75% on target, 100% slightly off, or vice-versa). But overall I found the CMS on the RS20 - the one they fixed with the firmware upgrade - to be quite solid.

I don't think the extra on/off CR will be too noticeable. If you are very sensitive to blacks looking gray, you may perceive a little bit better absolute black with the higher CR unit. Also it may appear to have a tad more depth (less of a chance for black crush, ability to run slightly higher gamma). Also the RS50 will be a bit brighter than the RS20, tho this hasn't really been an issue for me.

So far the most tangible and significant thing that came out of the CEDIA reviews to me as far as impressions go is the report from Mark that the softness is gone and that it looked very sharp. I know what his references are, and I know we share the same opinion on the softness on the RS20. Therefore I can totally trust Mark's opinion on this.

The slightly soft picture on the RS20 has been the ONE thing I most wanted corrected (zebra shirt artifact a close second!). So this alone would justify the upgrade to the RS50 for me. If JVC lowers the MSRP of the RS60 to $10K I'd go with that, but otherwise it seems almost impossible to justify the additional expense (just as one example, the difference in going from 50k:1 to 75k:1 is much greater than going from 75K:1 to 100K:1...).

Yes, I've no problem with the CMS on the RS20; just have seen posts that the later ones are even better.

Perhaps the thing that is highest on my list is handling of fast motion, e.g., tennis balls, which really do look they're moving in a stroboscopic light.

And yes, sharper is always better, though I would never characterize my RS20 as 'soft'.

And brighter is always better. I have gotten addicted to the 'big plasma' look (Monday Night Football right now). I am at min throw distance, have a relatively new lamp, the iris wide open, and in high lamp, on my 126" diag Dalite HP (with the pj right behind my head). It is BRIGHT!! With 30% more lumens, I could be in low lamp with the same output. The extra CR will be nice to keep the black level still very 'black' even in this mode.
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post #1354 of 8828 Old 10-04-2010, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiHoStevo View Post

Just Curious..........

For all you folks that have jumped on the RS-40/50/60 bandwagon....... and already concerned about glasses and emitters...

What are you planning on doing about a screen?

Are you going to try and use the one you have, or get one of the Silver Screen's that I thought were a necessary accompaniment to 3D???

Stevo,
We will not need a silver screen for any of the new 3D JVC Projectors since JVC is using active shutter 3D technology, which is the more common method used with the curret 3D flat panels.

I am personally keeping my 11 ft wide 1.13 gain acoustically transparent white screen.

The only con in using the active shutter method is the use of much much more expensive wireless active shutter glasses but they will work with most existing types of screens.

On the other hand, passive technology like LG's projector require the use of special high gain silver screens, which are know to hot spot. So new $2000 screen but dirt cheap active glasses, the ones they use in theaters, which are a dime a dozen.
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post #1355 of 8828 Old 10-04-2010, 09:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

I didn`t say it didn`t have improved ANSI. I don`t know.

Right, I had it reversed and was thinking you said increased sharpness could make it look like there was increased ANSI, when it was actually the other way around. I edited my post.
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post #1356 of 8828 Old 10-04-2010, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Dallas View Post

Anyone sitting on the fence between the RS40/50 I say get the RS50 because 3-D Porn will look much better with the dual iris and a Xenon Mode

I like porn as much as the next guy... or so I thought. But Hi-Def has never interested me... yuck! And 3D... double-yuck. Ick! Gack!
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post #1357 of 8828 Old 10-04-2010, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by erkq View Post

I like porn as much as the next guy... or so I thought. But Hi-Def has never interested me... yuck! And 3D... double-yuck. Ick! Gack!

POV Porn would be very popular I think. lol

Do all the the new models have the lens closes when shut down?

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post #1358 of 8828 Old 10-04-2010, 09:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

...And yes, sharper is always better, though I would never characterize my RS20 as 'soft'...

Relatively speaking of course. IOW it is sharp, but soft when compared to some of the DLP machines out there such as Mark's Samsung. I always felt like the RS20 was just a half notch out of focus - is the best way to describe it. Sharp, but just not quite razor sharp. Tho I must say *slight* use of the Sharpness control (+10) and good use of Detail Enhance (+30) really make a big difference, as I have posted about in year's past.
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post #1359 of 8828 Old 10-04-2010, 10:17 PM
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If anyone here knows about porn its Chris and then maybe CM. I think its all Chris watches on the high resoltion flat screen he installed in his extremely rare Ferrari. I do tell you, a $5 million Malibu dry sand beach house is no place to park a Ferrari. tthe salt air will substantial degrade it in no time and Malibu is overcast and misty many days until early in the afternoon.

I am having a tough time visualizing Cris wearing 3D glasses as he drives down highway 1in his chick mobile. The security guards in the gate house in the gated community will soon have quite a chuckle.

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post #1360 of 8828 Old 10-04-2010, 10:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

I do tell you, a $5 million Malibu dry sand beach house is no place to park a Ferrari. tthe salt air will substantial degrade it in no time and Malibu is overcast and misty many days until early in the afternoon.

That's what the climate controlled (inclu. dehumidifier) garage is for. I had a '73 Maserati Bora (admittedly NOTHING compared to Chris' rides) in an ocean front house in Santa Cruz for 10 years. No rust. The stainless steel top never even pitted. Just gotta give it a warm dry place to live and DON'T drive it in the rain. Italian cars melt in the rain.
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post #1361 of 8828 Old 10-05-2010, 03:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gusx View Post

Do the HD250 and the RS40 use the same mount? Any recommendations?

They use different mounts. For anyone thinking of getting one of the new models who wants to get started on finding a suitable mount, here are some line drawings that show the sizes.

Weights are 14.7Kg for the RS40/X3 and 15.1Kg for the RS50/60/X7/X9.
LL
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post #1362 of 8828 Old 10-05-2010, 03:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryB_UK View Post

They use different mounts. For anyone thinking of getting one of the new models who wants to get started on finding a suitable mount, here are some line drawings that show the sizes.

Weights are 14.7Kg for the RS40/X3 and 15.1Kg for the RS50/60/X7/X9.

How about in comparison with the older line (HD-1, HD-100)? Any luck there?

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post #1363 of 8828 Old 10-05-2010, 03:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

Relatively speaking of course. IOW it is sharp, but soft when compared to some of the DLP machines out there such as Mark's Samsung. I always felt like the RS20 was just a half notch out of focus - is the best way to describe it. Sharp, but just not quite razor sharp. Tho I must say *slight* use of the Sharpness control (+10) and good use of Detail Enhance (+30) really make a big difference, as I have posted about in year's past.

This is something that continues to haunt me since I purchased an HD750 after years of owning DLP machines. When watching my HD750 I just can't shake off the thought running through my head that it isn't quite sharp enough. I've got sharpness and detail enhance in operation but it still lacks that little something in definition for me. I console myself with the thought that when I had DLP (because I like to sit close to the screen) I used to worry about seeing screen door, and that now I should be happy because with DiLA I don't see any screen door. Obviously that will invariably mean though that the DiLA image will look a gnat's hair softer. But I just can't shake that thought - I want the razor sharpness of DLP in a DiLA machine. There's no way I'd go back to DLP though because without a dynamic iris their black levels are disappointing compared to DiLA. If the RS50 is really sharper then I'd be in clover (especially if ANSI contrast is boosted), although having just shelled out earlier this year on an HD750 there's little chance of me being able to afford one. On the other hand, I might be willing to swap my HD750 for an RS40 - which would be a more affordable route. Native contrast would be around the same between my HD750 and the RS40, so no real loss there, and the gain in sharpness and more ANSI contrast might be worth the loss of CMS to me. Any thoughts?

I've got a nice flat greyscale and gamma sorted but I'm about to tackle the CMS on my HD750 for the first time (never had a pj with a CMS in before) soon. So will an accurate CMS calibration help dimensionality/appearance of sharpness in any way?
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post #1364 of 8828 Old 10-05-2010, 05:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryB_UK View Post

They use different mounts. For anyone thinking of getting one of the new models who wants to get started on finding a suitable mount, here are some line drawings that show the sizes.

Weights are 14.7Kg for the RS40/X3 and 15.1Kg for the RS50/60/X7/X9.

Gary I'm not sure you're at liberty to discuss this but a little birdie told me JVC is hard at work with their laser units and a prototype is much closer than we think. How true/false is this if you can even chime in but I'm sure youre under NDA. I'm hoping they can reveal something at CES but that's just wishful thinking on my part, cedia on the other hand is more probable.

Cheers
Chris

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post #1365 of 8828 Old 10-05-2010, 05:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

As usual, I find myself very much in the same frame of mind as you (and Lovingdvd): are these new JVC's, specifically the RS50, enough of any improvement over our RS20's to make an upgrade sensible? To organize my thoughts, I've tried to make a list of the improvements that a RS50 might have over the RS20. I'd appreciate any additions, corrections, or any other thoughts you guys might have. (only 2d considered)

--50K --> 70K :1 CR (same as RS35); nice, but not sure how significant.

--Improved Clear Motion Drive ('improved' over what was in the RS35); this is one thing I think I would appreciate, better handling of fast motion. That's one thing I can notice my RS20 lacks.

--Pure Wire Grid Polarizers => better Sharpness?, ANSI CR ? Would be nice if true.

--More lumens; not sure how much of this '1300' we'll see at D65, but presumably something.

--Improved CMS; it was reported that the CMS in the RS35 was 'significantly' improved over that in the RS20, and the new one is presumably no worse (even w/o 'orange').

Have I missed anything that is possibly significant? I'm on Jason's list for a RS50, though of course the final commitment is not until they ship. Would be good to remove some of the above '?', though LG is probably right that we won't be able to do so by shipping time. OTOH, I could wait, as LG suggests. I'm not worried about my RS20 loosing more value, since it will be passed down to daughter/son-in-law; but one might miss the good intro price.

I think that you got it (at least from what I can tell).

I think that we can generally break down the kinds of changes to: Light engine and light path improvements (new polarizers, new panel drivers, new lamp, lamp iris and more efficient light path) and Image Processing Improvements (3d, new frame interpolation, black frame insertion, tons of color mode presets and 7 axis CMS).

Between the two, I am much more interested in the Light Engine/Light Path improvements. The question that I am struggling with is what are these improvements designed to accomplish? Most seem designed to increase brightness while preserving contrast. It seems harder to keep high contrast when you have a higher lumen projector. One important thing that we don't know is are the contrast measurements given at 6500k or, like the lumens are, at 8000k? If they are given at 8000k, then real contrast might be much less than the specs state. So, it could be that the RS50 at 70k:1 might be a lateral (or maybe even backward) move on contrast from an RS20 at 50k:1. In real terms, for contrast, an RS50 might be a brighter RS25 and an RS60 might be a brighter RS35. In addition to knowing about ANSI contrast, this is one reason that I am holding off until we know more. I don't need the extra lumens.

The image processing improvements are much less interesting to me. Having FI that works as people want it to (for those who want to use it ) is something that should have happened last year. But, better late than never, I guess. I AM interested in black frame insertion, which should make film look more film-like. This is actually the thing that I am most interested in seeing. I remain convinced that all of the new gamut presets and the 7 axis CMS are gimmicks or things that most of us would never use. From JVC's perspective, these might increase sales into new markets, but they are not for the home theater crowd.

I really want to upgrade (as I did last year) and I am hoping that my hopes for these projectors are realized. I am hoping for something a little bit sharper (should be because the RS35 is sharper than the RS20) and for something that does a little better with brighter content. For first time buyers or for someone with an older PJ, these projectors are great and an upgrade is a no-brainer, especially if you are into 3d. I am pretty happy with my RS20 so I want to see something on the screen that would justify the upgrade.

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post #1366 of 8828 Old 10-05-2010, 05:49 AM
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Quick question:

Would a High Contrast Grey screen help, or hurt, a projector like the RS40 in a completely light controlled environment?
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post #1367 of 8828 Old 10-05-2010, 06:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Dallas View Post

Gary I'm not sure you're at liberty to discuss this but a little birdie told me JVC is hard at work with their laser units and a prototype is much closer than we think. How true/false is this if you can even chime in but I'm sure youre under NDA. I'm hoping they can reveal something at CES but that's just wishful thinking on my part, cedia on the other hand is more probable.

I've not heard of anything, but any major advances like that would probably be kept strictly within the design team anyway.
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post #1368 of 8828 Old 10-05-2010, 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by takisot View Post

How about in comparison with the older line (HD-1, HD-100)? Any luck there?

No. They used 300x230mm, so are different.
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post #1369 of 8828 Old 10-05-2010, 06:48 AM
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A CMS will let one adjust the hue, saturation, and luminosity of the primaries. The JVC lets one adjust those three parameters for the secondaries also. If the JVC uses the correct formulas to derive the secondaries, once the primaries are adjusted there is no need to adjust the secondaries unless one wants to make them wrong. If the JVC doesn`t use the correct formulas, then the adjustment of the secondaries would be required. Using the CMS should not affect contrast or sharpness although I suppose one could adjust the luminence to make the color adjusted glow which to ones eyes might look like it wasn`t as sharp. But you would really have some bad colors in such a case.

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post #1370 of 8828 Old 10-05-2010, 06:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buttabean View Post

POV Porn would be very popular I think. lol

Do all the the new models have the lens closes when shut down?

3D Porn should only be made in POV IMO, otherwise can you imagine if the male "actor" were to turn toward the camera!??? lol
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post #1371 of 8828 Old 10-05-2010, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by GaryB_UK View Post

No. They used 300x230mm, so are different.

Bummer... Thanks Gary.

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post #1372 of 8828 Old 10-05-2010, 08:14 AM
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The RS40 is looking good-but here's the question...Does it seem probable that we will still have around 600 lumens (calibrated) after 1000 hours of bulb dimming? I'm thinking with a 1300 lumen projector, we may start with a good 1000 or so calibrated lumens. Then, of course, the very saddening dimming starts after a few hundred hours. Given it's a 3D projector, wouldn't JVC be prepared for this? 3D would start to look dim quite fast, given its light cutting aspect to begin with.
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post #1373 of 8828 Old 10-05-2010, 08:29 AM
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http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com...om=en-us_msnhp

interesting benchmark for testing ghosting. Will Jason or any others be using something similar in there reviews?

Joe.T
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post #1374 of 8828 Old 10-05-2010, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryB_UK View Post

They use different mounts. For anyone thinking of getting one of the new models who wants to get started on finding a suitable mount, here are some line drawings that show the sizes.

Weights are 14.7Kg for the RS40/X3 and 15.1Kg for the RS50/60/X7/X9.

I think my existing ChiefMount from my RS20 should work just fine
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post #1375 of 8828 Old 10-05-2010, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTonik View Post

Quick question:

Would a High Contrast Grey screen help, or hurt, a projector like the RS40 in a completely light controlled environment?

It would hurt - I know that Dalite does not recommend a grey screen if you have a light controlled room and a projector with moderate or better contrast ratio.

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post #1376 of 8828 Old 10-05-2010, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTonik View Post

Quick question:

Would a High Contrast Grey screen help, or hurt, a projector like the RS40 in a completely light controlled environment?

If you're in a light controlled environment, then theoretically you could achieve a bat cave settings, right?

If so, any standard white screen with a fair gain of 1.x or more should be suffiicient. Of course the higher the gain the better. But I am projecting on my 11 foot wide CIH 2.37:1 AT screen with a gain of 1.13, and even after 1300 hours, my RS20 is still glowing pretty well.

I would personally stay away from Grey screens because the RS40 will have plenty of lumens and an ultra high NCR
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post #1377 of 8828 Old 10-05-2010, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Anthony A. View Post

on that note, i think 3d is a long, long ways away. just think of broadcast tv, the new apple tv, etc. its pulling teeth for huge companies to even offer 1080p, let alone 3d. now 2d-3d conversion is a technology that they should look into more. imagine just popping in a bluray and its now 3d!

well big sporting events seem to be in 3d now .. Ryder cup was in 3D. Soccer matches. I don't care too much for the 3d movies personally but when they are done well like Avatar they can be engaging. Look at the new releases and percentage of 3d content. Don't waste time fighting it .. It is here.
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post #1378 of 8828 Old 10-05-2010, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highlander_AVS View Post

Points of view ....

I blessed the money and the decision to have upgrade from RS20 to HD990 and even in the side by side with RS25 I was able to notice the amount of these little differences which, once "lived" and seen, I can't renounce at them ! It's a Must have !

So, Welcome RS60 ! I'm waiting for you !

Finally someone that makes sense.
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post #1379 of 8828 Old 10-05-2010, 08:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Dallas View Post

Anyone sitting on the fence between the RS40/50 I say get the RS50 because 3-D Porn will look much better with the dual iris and a Xenon Mode

3d porn .. I am not too sure... Some of those scenes on your big screen may be scarier than freddy krueger.
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post #1380 of 8828 Old 10-05-2010, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony A. View Post

on that note, i think 3d is a long, long ways away. just think of broadcast tv, the new apple tv, etc. its pulling teeth for huge companies to even offer 1080p, let alone 3d. now 2d-3d conversion is a technology that they should look into more. imagine just popping in a bluray and its now 3d!


Quote:
Originally Posted by mandarax View Post

well big sporting events seem to be in 3d now .. Ryder cup was in 3D. Soccer matches. I don't care too much for the 3d movies personally but when they are done well like Avatar they can be engaging. Look at the new releases and percentage of 3d content. Don't waste time fighting it .. It is here.

Anyone thinking 3D is a "Long Long Way" is clearly in denial. 90% of the WorldCup 2010 FIFA games were broadcast in High Def 3D and got raving reviews about how good the content was, and 3D camera placements. It will take time for all other sports such as Football, Basketball, Baseball, and Hockey, Golf, in addition to Racing, to perfect the art of 3D shooting and broadcasting, but trust us, the 3D technology is here, and the content is knocking down your door.

By year end, we will have as much as 20 or more notable 3D releases, and another 20-30 by late Spring/early summer as the 3D trend seems to be growing stronger every day with more frequent 3D releases in theaters and home video. And it's certain that by next summer there will be PLENTY of available 3D content via broadcast networks and cable.

So again, it's cool if you don't care for 3D, to each's own. But don't sit here and tell us it's a long long way. I am pretty sure many also thought that the Blu-ray format will suffer its demise in 2010 in the hands of over-compressed lossy high defintition VOD, PPV, and DLC.


3D BD RELEASES:
  • A Christmas Carol (11/08/10)
  • Alice in Wonderland (??? 12/07/10 - exclusive)
  • Alps: Climb of your life (11/22/10)
  • Avatar 3D (??? 12/10/01 - exclusive)
  • Beowulf (??? TBA - no idea when)
  • Bolt 3D (??? TBA - exclusive)
  • Cats and Dogs: Revenge of Kitty Galore (11/16/10)
  • Clash of the Titans (11/16/2010)
  • Coraline (??? 06/01/10 - exclusive)
  • Deep Sea 3D (11/16/10)
  • Despicable Me (12/14/10)
  • Final Destination 3D (??? TBA - no idea when)
  • Galapagos (??? 10/15/10 - exclusive)
  • Grand Canyon Adventures: River At Risk (10/11/10)
  • Greece: Secrets of the Past (02/14/10)
  • How to Train Your Dragon (??? 10/15/10 - exclusive)
  • Ice Age: Dawn of the Dinosaurs (??? 06/01/10 - exclusive)
  • Into the Deep (??? 10/15/10 - exclusive)
  • Jackass 3D (??? TBA - in theaters)
  • Journey Into Amazing Cave (02/07/11)
  • Journey to the Center of the Earth (??? TBA - no idea when)
  • Monster House (11/22/10)
  • Monsters vs Aliens (??? 03/16/10 - exclusivity soon to expire)
  • My Bloody Valentine 3D (10/05/10)
  • Open Season (11/22/10)
  • Pirahnas 3D (??? TBA - in theaters)
  • Ride Around the World (01/10/11)
  • SAW 3D (??? TBA - in theaters)
  • Shrek Collection 3D (??? TBA - no idea when)
  • Step Up 3D (??? TBA - in theaters)
  • The Polar Express (11/16/10)
  • Toy Story 3D (??? TBA - no idea when)
  • Under The Sea 3D (11/16/10)
  • Volcanoes of the Deep Sea (12/06/10)
  • Wild Ocean (11/08/10)
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