JVC RS40 vs Epson 21000 - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 151 Old 09-27-2010, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Jason Turk View Post

And it is...just more money. The HD250 is going to be closer in price to the Epson (Epson is a tad more).


I would say that the delta between the low end Epson and JVC compared to low end dlps and LCDs is pretty big. It is enough that people should seriously consider extending their budgets to consider these pjs, if they weren't planning on spending more than $2k to begin with.

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post #32 of 151 Old 09-27-2010, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post

Does the new HD250 and/or RS40 have accurate colors, even thought they lack a CMS?

It's probably worse than the RS15 since they projector now has an incorrect white point now too (to get the higher 1300 lumen output).
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post #33 of 151 Old 09-27-2010, 06:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericglo View Post

I would say that the delta between the low end Epson and JVC compared to low end dlps and LCDs is pretty big. It is enough that people should seriously consider extending their budgets to consider these pjs, if they weren't planning on spending more than $2k to begin with.

Extend by how much? I'm in the market for a new projector and 2k is my range but I don't think that the JVC is going to be around 2K. Everything I've read says 2999. I guess that I need to email Jason. I want to pull the trigger in the next 3 weeks. Looking at the LG LCOS from 2009 as well.

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post #34 of 151 Old 09-28-2010, 12:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post

It's probably worse than the RS15 since they projector now has an incorrect white point now too (to get the higher 1300 lumen output).

Hmm, you have to remember, the incorrect white point is incorrect only in 3d mode, and the glasses if i'm not mistaken, put the white point back to normal.
Also, it's been commented in these forums that the RS40 actually has an HDTV gamut preset. (it would've been a tragedy if it didn't have one, since this new lamp has an even wider gamut than the old one, so colors would actually be pretty damn horrid with out the preset)

Honestly, i'd love to see the RS40 and 60 side by side, i'd love to know just how much better 2x CR is at this stage (i'm thinking the difference will be barely noticeable)

Sure, the CMS is nice, but since we now have an actual HDTV preset, i think that should be enough for most users.
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post #35 of 151 Old 09-28-2010, 12:00 PM
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The JVC HD250 is $2999 list, the RS40 is $4499 list.

The Epson 21000 is $3199-$3399 (pricing will be out today).
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post #36 of 151 Old 09-28-2010, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post

Thanks Jason. That $4149 is such an unusual typo of number for an MSRP that I just have to ask whether that might be a typo. I thought the MSRP was going to be $4499.

--Darin

Ugh. One of those freaking days. I will correct it.
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post #37 of 151 Old 09-28-2010, 12:07 PM
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Darin call me when you have a second as well.
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post #38 of 151 Old 09-28-2010, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahard View Post

Extend by how much? I'm in the market for a new projector and 2k is my range but I don't think that the JVC is going to be around 2K. Everything I've read says 2999. I guess that I need to email Jason. I want to pull the trigger in the next 3 weeks. Looking at the LG LCOS from 2009 as well.

Jason can tell you what he is selling them for, but you won't be getting one in the next three weeks. I believe the JVCs will ship in Nov and the Epsons in Dec.

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post #39 of 151 Old 09-29-2010, 09:31 AM
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The HD250 is shipping now (well from JVC to dealers). The RS will be late November, possibly December.
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post #40 of 151 Old 09-29-2010, 06:49 PM
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I stand corrected.

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post #41 of 151 Old 10-01-2010, 10:11 AM
 
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Jason has confirmed that the HD40 does have CMS although its not the same as in the HD50 and 60
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post #42 of 151 Old 10-01-2010, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Hutnicki View Post

Jason has confirmed that the HD40 does have CMS although its not the same as in the HD50 and 60

And Gary confirmed it doesn't.
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post #43 of 151 Old 10-02-2010, 05:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Hutnicki View Post

Jason has confirmed that the HD40 does have CMS although its not the same as in the HD50 and 60

No such thing as an HD40.

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post #44 of 151 Old 10-05-2010, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

JVC said that the HD250 is being set to wipe out the competition in the $3K and under market, and I think I might bet on them doing it.

I was shocked at how aggressive the pricing is on the 250. As far as the brightness on the projector it is 1300 lumens vs the 900 last year and this is more than acceptable to account for the 3D requirements and almost a 50 percent improvement. Looks like Epson will have a tough swim this year to compete. I will see the new Epson line up next week and they want me to bring my JVC so they at least seem to be very confident.
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post #45 of 151 Old 10-05-2010, 09:10 AM
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Good to see you back, mandarax.

I don't know. The Epson has some features that the JVC lacks. THe on/off cr should be close, but Epson will have an iris. The Epsons and JVCs are great pjs at great prices. Like I said, if I were spending $2k on a pj then I would try to stretch my budget to grab one of these before settling for a LCD.

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post #46 of 151 Old 10-05-2010, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericglo View Post

Good to see you back, mandarax.

I don't know. The Epson has some features that the JVC lacks. THe on/off cr should be close, but Epson will have an iris. The Epsons and JVCs are great pjs at great prices. Like I said, if I were spending $2k on a pj then I would try to stretch my budget to grab one of these before settling for a LCD.

For those who don't want to stretch the 2K that much for LCOS (and are willing to live with mediocre black levels), there's always the tantalizing LG CF181 option...
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post #47 of 151 Old 10-05-2010, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mandarax View Post

I was shocked at how aggressive the pricing is on the 250. As far as the brightness on the projector it is 1300 lumens vs the 900 last year and this is more than acceptable to account for the 3D requirements and almost a 50 percent improvement. Looks like Epson will have a tough swim this year to compete. I will see the new Epson line up next week and they want me to bring my JVC so they at least seem to be very confident.

Isn't the HD250 rated at 1000 lumens? The Epson 21K is rated at 1300 (exaggerations notwithstanding)...
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post #48 of 151 Old 10-05-2010, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mandarax View Post

As far as the brightness on the projector it is 1300 lumens vs the 900 last year and this is more than acceptable to account for the 3D requirements and almost a 50 percent improvement.

1300 lumens is in 3D mode. Shouldn't we compare 900 lumens of last year to the 2D mode? What is the lumens rating in 2D for the RS40?
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post #49 of 151 Old 10-06-2010, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by foofoobar View Post

For those who don't want to stretch the 2K that much for LCOS (and are willing to live with mediocre black levels), there's always the tantalizing LG CF181 option...

How does the LG CF181 compare to the EPSON or JVC when it comes to brightness?

Will the LG be better for ambient lighting conditions?
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post #50 of 151 Old 10-06-2010, 12:38 PM
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The LG is the brightest of the three.
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post #51 of 151 Old 10-06-2010, 05:29 PM
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Yes -- and the LG likely will be brightest in the "best" mode as well...
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post #52 of 151 Old 10-06-2010, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by PhatboyC View Post

1300 lumens is in 3D mode.

Once you put the shutter glasses on that 1300 lumens gets cut significantly. I'd like to know how much light gets to our eyes! If that 1300 lumens out becomes 300 with glasses on - is that going to be enough? That might depend on screen size and screen gain. Once people here have their hands on these projectors it'll be interesting to hear the feedback! What about aging bulbs?
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post #53 of 151 Old 10-07-2010, 08:09 AM
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I am going to see the 31000 and 21000 next Wednesday .. I may bring my demo unit RS35 if timing allows it. Epson is telling me I am going to be blown away.

And Hello Eric.. I didnt really go anywhere. For a while I just got sick of the my projector is better than your projector. The fit is always relative to peoples own budgets and tastes and really how their own theaters evolution is taking place. Timing is important as well. The tenure of use plays more into the equation and how much the projector is valued at on the resale market after the desired tenure.
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post #54 of 151 Old 10-07-2010, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by mandarax View Post

I am going to see the 31000 and 21000 next Wednesday .. I may bring my demo unit RS35 if timing allows it. Epson is telling me I am going to be blown away.

That will be *much* appreciated! Please try to do the comparison with RS35!
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post #55 of 151 Old 10-07-2010, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mandarax View Post

I am going to see the 31000 and 21000 next Wednesday .. I may bring my demo unit RS35 if timing allows it. Epson is telling me I am going to be blown away.


This is great news, as I'm anxiously awaiting your impressions. I'm very interested in the 21000.

Thanks for doing this.
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post #56 of 151 Old 10-07-2010, 12:02 PM
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Many people tend to think of R3LCD as just another form of LCOS. This is not true, LCOS uses Si substrate, while Epson's R3LCD is still glass-based.

So it still has a lot in common with LCD technology despite the reflective feature, and Epson is quite correct to call the panels R3LCD.

It will be interesting to see how how this half-step to LCOS will compare image wise. Epson's pricing of the R61000 is quite high compared to the value of the new JVC 3D models - I can't see it being a blockbuster at this price point. At least we as consumers will have quite a choice.
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post #57 of 151 Old 10-07-2010, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mandarax View Post

I am going to see the 31000 and 21000 next Wednesday .. I may bring my demo unit RS35 if timing allows it. Epson is telling me I am going to be blown away.

Well, considering the great price that AVS has on the HD250, they have their job cut out for the demo . Hopefully, the 21000 street / AVS price will be in the same ballpark as well...
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post #58 of 151 Old 10-07-2010, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wohlstad View Post

Many people tend to think of R3LCD as just another form of LCOS. This is not true, LCOS uses Si substrate, while Epson's R3LCD is still glass-based.

So it still has a lot in common with LCD technology despite the reflective feature, and Epson is quite correct to call the panels R3LCD.

It will be interesting to see how how this half-step to LCOS will compare image wise. Epson's pricing of the R61000 is quite high compared to the value of the new JVC 3D models - I can't see it being a blockbuster at this price point. At least we as consumers will have quite a choice.

I'm confused by your interpretation of Epson's technology as a "half-step". Other than Epson stating they're using "Quartz" (Silicon Dioxide) instead of stating "silicon" as a substrate (both are substrates), the technologies appear very similar.
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post #59 of 151 Old 10-07-2010, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

Once you put the shutter glasses on that 1300 lumens gets cut significantly. I'd like to know how much light gets to our eyes! If that 1300 lumens out becomes 300 with glasses on - is that going to be enough? That might depend on screen size and screen gain. Once people here have their hands on these projectors it'll be interesting to hear the feedback! What about aging bulbs?

Given the loss of light due to the less than 50% duty cycle per eye and the transmission loss of light thru the LCD when in the open (transparent) mode the total light reaching each eye with 3D systems using LCD shutter glasses is typically 15% to 20%. Than means in 3D mode, assuming the JVC projector with a new bulb provides 1300 peak lumens, it should produce an effective light output equivalent to about 250 lumens (and that will decrease as the projector's bulb gets some hours on it). So running the numbers for using a projector with an effective 250 lumens of outputs with my 120 inch, 1.78 Aspect Ratio, 1.4 gain screen, it should produce about 8.2 ft. lamberts from the screen. This will be dim by 2D standards but it is generally considered acceptable by commercial 3D movie presentation standards. However, having 12+ ft. lamberts (as recommended for 2D presentations) would be a lot better as a starting point with a new bulb. If I didn't already have the screen (currently using it with a Epson 6500UB) I would probably go with a Dalite High Power screen and lower the projector a couple of feet to get it closer to eye-level (as required to get optimum performace from the High Power screens).

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post #60 of 151 Old 10-07-2010, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grubert View Post

See for yourself
(video courtesy worf aka kraine)

I must have missed it, but all I saw was the greyscale menu. It looks like the RGBCMY menu is highlighted, but he didn't enter into it.

Can this Epson 21000 adjust saturation, hue and brightness of the three primary and three secondary colors?

Also, any firm confirmation on the RS40 re. CMS? Did Jason confirm this, or was he talking about a different JVC model.

Dan
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