JVC RS40 vs Epson 21000 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 151 Old 09-24-2010, 03:03 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
blee0120's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Merillville, IN 46410
Posts: 3,646
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)
Liked: 70
Can someone that attended Cedia comment about the 2D on these two projectors. One of these projectors are going to be my next projector. I don't really care about the 3D, but the RS40 at that price for a JVC is a steal with or without 3D.
blee0120 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 151 Old 09-24-2010, 07:08 PM
Senior Member
 
foofoobar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 311
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
+1...

Edit: Read the post as HD250 vs. 21000
foofoobar is offline  
post #3 of 151 Old 09-25-2010, 05:02 AM
Senior Member
 
18628239's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Elysium
Posts: 397
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
How come you are not considering the HD250?

"What we do in life echoes in eternity." General Maximus Decimus Meridius
18628239 is offline  
post #4 of 151 Old 09-25-2010, 10:58 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
blee0120's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Merillville, IN 46410
Posts: 3,646
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)
Liked: 70
I was assuming that the RS40 was better than the HD250, but I might just go with the HD250 sense 3D is not a big deal to me right now
blee0120 is offline  
post #5 of 151 Old 09-25-2010, 02:53 PM
Senior Member
 
18628239's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Elysium
Posts: 397
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

I was assuming that the RS40 was better than the HD250, but I might just go with the HD250 sense 3D is not a big deal to me right now

And I would assume the same, but is the HD250 better than the Epson 21K? If it is, then $1500 could be saved, no?

"What we do in life echoes in eternity." General Maximus Decimus Meridius
18628239 is offline  
post #6 of 151 Old 09-25-2010, 04:55 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
blee0120's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Merillville, IN 46410
Posts: 3,646
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)
Liked: 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18628239 View Post

And I would assume the same, but is the HD250 better than the Epson 21K? If it is, then $1500 could be saved, no?

True, I keep reading how JVC lumens are not bright enough for 3D, and i don't really watch my projector in a bat cave. Plus, I don't want to buy a new screen either, I already have two screens. The price difference between the JVC HD250 and the Epson 21000 should not be that much.
blee0120 is offline  
post #7 of 151 Old 09-25-2010, 05:18 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
millerwill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Berkeley, CA
Posts: 11,419
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Liked: 40
JVC said that the HD250 is being set to wipe out the competition in the $3K and under market, and I think I might bet on them doing it.
millerwill is offline  
post #8 of 151 Old 09-26-2010, 12:18 AM
Member
 
CULTURECLUB68's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 23
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I CAN'T abide with the hallelluiah's being heaped on JVC's LCOS units. My eyes might see a decent Black/Contrast level but the image has no depth, has sordid ANSI and bereft of that magical glow that a DLP delivers - and to a certain extent now, LCDs. Why choosed to pay JVC so much money even if they're handing you a stripped down, bare-minimum, entry-level unit?

Why not take the EPSON 21000 - its priced for the populace, or at least not into the stratosphere; has a guesstimated true Contrast rate of around 14 to 18,000:1, and BEST of all embedded with the HQV Vida chip which is bound to make a universe of a difference? The HQV remains the Holy Grail of video processing, you coalesce a chip of such caliber with your projector and you've just entered the club of the reference grade.

This is the Epson model to await for - or the Mitsubishi HC4000 if you're the stubborn DLP purist.
CULTURECLUB68 is offline  
post #9 of 151 Old 09-26-2010, 12:47 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
blee0120's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Merillville, IN 46410
Posts: 3,646
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)
Liked: 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by CULTURECLUB68 View Post

I CAN'T abide with the hallelluiah's being heaped on JVC's LCOS units. My eyes might see a decent Black/Contrast level but the image has no depth, has sordid ANSI and bereft of that magical glow that a DLP delivers - and to a certain extent now, LCDs. Why choosed to pay JVC so much money even if they're handing you a stripped down, bare-minimum, entry-level unit?

Why not take the EPSON 21000 - its priced for the populace, or at least not into the stratosphere; has a guesstimated true Contrast rate of around 14 to 18,000:1, and BEST of all embedded with the HQV Vida chip which is bound to make a universe of a difference? The HQV remains the Holy Grail of video processing, you coalesce a chip of such caliber with your projector and you've just entered the club of the reference grade.

This is the Epson model to await for - or the Mitsubishi HC4000 if you're the stubborn DLP purist.

To be honest, I had my mind set on the new Epson models for awhile, but all the hype has made me change my mind, now I have to wait until reviews come out. Since I'm not ready for 3D, cause I would have to buy a new receiver, expensive glasses and a new screen, I hope that either the Epson 21000 or JVC HD250 can match the RS20
blee0120 is offline  
post #10 of 151 Old 09-26-2010, 01:33 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Kelvin1965S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Berkshire, UK
Posts: 3,246
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

I hope that either the Epson 21000 or JVC HD250 can match the RS20

I can't comment about the 21000, but the HD250 is essentially the old HD350 (or your RS10) in a matt black case. Therefore it's most unlikely that it will 'match the RS20'. Interesting also that in the US the HD250 claims 25,000:1 CR but elsewhere it claims 30,000:1, perhaps to further differentiate between it and the X3/RS40

Zooming: Been there, done that, bought the lens...
Kelvin1965S is online now  
post #11 of 151 Old 09-26-2010, 02:00 AM
Toe
AVS Addicted Member
 
Toe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 13,064
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 107 Post(s)
Liked: 445
Quote:
Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

, I hope that either the Epson 21000 or JVC HD250 can match the RS20

As Kelvin pointed out, that is not going to happen, but both units should be great in their class. I am with those that think the HD250 will be the one to own in the 3k and under MSRP arena.

JVC 3D: Been there, done that, bought a DLP
Toe is online now  
post #12 of 151 Old 09-26-2010, 06:57 AM
Senior Member
 
18628239's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Elysium
Posts: 397
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by CULTURECLUB68 View Post

I CAN'T abide with the hallelluiah's being heaped on JVC's LCOS units. My eyes might see a decent Black/Contrast level but the image has no depth, has sordid ANSI and bereft of that magical glow that a DLP delivers - and to a certain extent now, LCDs. Why choosed to pay JVC so much money even if they're handing you a stripped down, bare-minimum, entry-level unit?

Why not take the EPSON 21000 - its priced for the populace, or at least not into the stratosphere; has a guesstimated true Contrast rate of around 14 to 18,000:1, and BEST of all embedded with the HQV Vida chip which is bound to make a universe of a difference? The HQV remains the Holy Grail of video processing, you coalesce a chip of such caliber with your projector and you've just entered the club of the reference grade.

This is the Epson model to await for - or the Mitsubishi HC4000 if you're the stubborn DLP purist.

Any hype on the Epson front will be matched by many owners claiming they had to get another unit from the manufacturer because of poor manufacturing tolerances. I can say that will continue to hurt Epson in my book.

"What we do in life echoes in eternity." General Maximus Decimus Meridius
18628239 is offline  
post #13 of 151 Old 09-26-2010, 07:10 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Ron Jones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Florida and West Virginia, USA
Posts: 5,854
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 135 Post(s)
Liked: 177
The German web site cine4home has posted a review, with measurements, of a pre-production sample of an Epson Reflective LCD projector. They measured the native CR (i.e., with dynamic iris turned off and manual iris fully open) at around 25,000:1 and up to 35,000:1 with the manual iris closed down (but with a loss of lumens), thus putting the Epson's native CR into the same ballpark as the current JVC entry-level models or the top-of-the-line JVCs from a couple of years ago (and well ahead of the Sony SXRD native CR). By starting with Dynamic mode and adjusting for D65 and proper colors they were able to get 950 lumens out of the Epson projector in full lamp mode. It would be interesting to see how the ANSI CR compares to the JVCs since this is the area where the JVC DILA technology has been very so-so (this was not measured in the cine4home review). HERE is the link, with google translation from German-to-English for the review at cine4home:

Ron Jones
Blog + Reviews + Articles: projectorreviews.com
Ron Jones is online now  
post #14 of 151 Old 09-26-2010, 09:36 AM
hrd
AVS Special Member
 
hrd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 1,129
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18628239 View Post

Any hype on the Epson front will be matched by many owners claiming they had to get another unit from the manufacturer because of poor manufacturing tolerances. I can say that will continue to hurt Epson in my book.

So true about Epson QC. Soon after the Epson 1080UB Pro Cinema came out, I drove about an hour to demo one at the regional distributor for Epson and Vutec in Amesbury, MA and was surprised to see the lumens just were not coming out of the projector they way they should have. It was a brand new projector and had something like 12 hours tops on the new bulb. It was dim on a 100-inch diagonal 16x9 white screen. It was a pulldown or electric screen, and behind it was a 16x9 high-gain Silverstar of a mere 61" diagonal in size, a dealer demo size. I had been to a closer store for a demo of the 1080UB Pro before that and knew all the tricks to maximize the light output, like dynamic mode, high bulb, and so on. With those adjustments, I was able to get a very satisfying image for someone like me who loves a bright picture on the Silverstar, but realistically, with a 1600-lumen projector with a brand new bulb cranked up like that on a tiny 61" high-gain screen, even a brightness freak should have needed two pairs of sunglasses. I always held that against Epson when I decided what projector to buy. My RS20 has been problem-free since I received it from AV Science at the end of the year almost two years ago.

I mentioned in another post recently how AV Science stopped selling the 1080UB Pro for a time because too many of them had convergence problems.
hrd is offline  
post #15 of 151 Old 09-26-2010, 09:50 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Killroy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Ninth Circle of Hell
Posts: 1,730
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18628239 View Post

Any hype on the Epson front will be matched by many owners claiming they had to get another unit from the manufacturer because of poor manufacturing tolerances. I can say that will continue to hurt Epson in my book.

As a current 6500UB owner, I will never ever own an Epson ever again even if given to me as a gift. The QC of Epson is a total joke although their CS is great...but what good is that when they keep sending you junk.
Killroy is offline  
post #16 of 151 Old 09-26-2010, 10:58 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Cine4Home's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,088
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post

It would be interesting to see how the ANSI CR compares to the JVCs since this is the area where the JVC DILA technology has been very so-so (this was not measured in the cine4home review).


Oh yes it was About the same as JVC.

Regards,
Ekkehart
Cine4Home is offline  
post #17 of 151 Old 09-26-2010, 11:08 AM
Senior Member
 
dvectord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 200
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Cine4Home

Are you talking about this year's jvc ansi CR or last years?

Supposedly, JVC has doubled their ansi contrast this year. Have you measured this?
dvectord is offline  
post #18 of 151 Old 09-26-2010, 11:51 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Wizziwig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: SoCal, USA
Posts: 1,248
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 169 Post(s)
Liked: 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cine4Home View Post

Oh yes it was About the same as JVC.

Regards,
Ekkehart

Ekkehart, have you been able to determine if the new Epson has a sealed light path like JVC so no problems with dust? The only information from Cedia seems to indicate that it's not sealed and same as their LCD units. Makes no sense to me for a reflective panel not to be sealed from dust.
Wizziwig is offline  
post #19 of 151 Old 09-26-2010, 02:23 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Ron Jones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Florida and West Virginia, USA
Posts: 5,854
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 135 Post(s)
Liked: 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cine4Home View Post

Oh yes it was About the same as JVC.

Regards,
Ekkehart

Missed that the ANSI CR was included in the new Epson test results. Thanks for the info.

Ron Jones
Blog + Reviews + Articles: projectorreviews.com
Ron Jones is online now  
post #20 of 151 Old 09-26-2010, 08:26 PM
Advanced Member
 
unclemat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 683
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I am in the same boat... it's gonna be RS40, 21000 or perhaps HD250 for me.

Had JVCs have lens memory JVC would have won already, especially that it seems they will hit the streets before the Epson. I really dislike hearing reports that 21000 displayed at Cedia was a "beta" unit.
unclemat is offline  
post #21 of 151 Old 09-26-2010, 08:28 PM
Senior Member
 
omicronian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 368
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I'm beginning to think there's a patent on lens memory, because it's really trivial to implement and only one company does it. I also wish it was on the JVC.
omicronian is offline  
post #22 of 151 Old 09-26-2010, 08:32 PM
Advanced Member
 
unclemat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 683
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Patent on something basic like this? I doubt it. Well, now it's two companies anyway, Panny and Epson.
unclemat is offline  
post #23 of 151 Old 09-27-2010, 02:15 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Cine4Home's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,088
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvectord View Post

Cine4Home

Are you talking about this year's jvc ansi CR or last years?

Supposedly, JVC has doubled their ansi contrast this year. Have you measured this?



I was talking about last years JVCs. I have no ANSI data about the new JVCs yet.


Regards,
Ekkehart
Cine4Home is offline  
post #24 of 151 Old 09-27-2010, 02:36 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Cine4Home's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,088
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post

Ekkehart, have you been able to determine if the new Epson has a sealed light path like JVC so no problems with dust? The only information from Cedia seems to indicate that it's not sealed and same as their LCD units. Makes no sense to me for a reflective panel not to be sealed from dust.


We took a look at the lightpath but we can not publish any photographs yet as the unit was still a prototype.

But of course the lightpath is completely different compared to the LCD units, due to the different technology.


Regargs,
Ekkehart
Cine4Home is offline  
post #25 of 151 Old 09-27-2010, 06:30 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Jason Turk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Rochester, NY USA
Posts: 12,452
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

I was assuming that the RS40 was better than the HD250, but I might just go with the HD250 sense 3D is not a big deal to me right now

And it is...just more money. The HD250 is going to be closer in price to the Epson (Epson is a tad more).
Jason Turk is offline  
post #26 of 151 Old 09-27-2010, 06:53 AM
Advanced Member
 
unclemat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 683
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cine4Home View Post

We took a look at the lightpath but we can not publish any photographs yet as the unit was still a prototype.

But of course the lightpath is completely different compared to the LCD units, due to the different technology.


Regargs,
Ekkehart

But is it any "less" sealed than e.g. JVC's light path?
unclemat is offline  
post #27 of 151 Old 09-27-2010, 07:23 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Ron Jones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Florida and West Virginia, USA
Posts: 5,854
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 135 Post(s)
Liked: 177
One additional question on the new JVCs (both the HD250 and the RS40) vs. the Epson 21000 concerns color accuracy. Both of these JVC models are entry level and lack a Color Management System, while all of the home cinema Epson projectors have CMS (as do the more expensive JVC DILAs models). The JVC models of prior years that lacked CMS had over saturated greens and other more minor color issues that could not be corrected via the projector's limited controls. Does the new HD250 and/or RS40 have accurate colors, even thought they lack a CMS? Probably no one outside of JVC has the final answer yet, but for those attending CEDIA or IFA, did you see anything to let you form an opinion on this?

Ron Jones
Blog + Reviews + Articles: projectorreviews.com
Ron Jones is online now  
post #28 of 151 Old 09-27-2010, 07:33 AM
Advanced Member
 
unclemat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 683
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
And can anyone confirm that the new Epson 21000 indeed has color controls no worse than earlier Epson models?
unclemat is offline  
post #29 of 151 Old 09-27-2010, 08:02 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Grubert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 7,892
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by unclemat View Post

And can anyone confirm that the new Epson 21000 indeed has color controls no worse than earlier Epson models?

See for yourself
(video courtesy worf aka kraine)

Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four
Grubert is offline  
post #30 of 151 Old 09-27-2010, 08:24 AM
Advanced Member
 
unclemat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 683
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grubert View Post

See for yourself
(video courtesy worf aka kraine)

Well, I guess we cannot be yet sure the U.S' 21000 will be exactly same as Euro's EH-R2000. I hope they won't cripple it though.
unclemat is offline  
Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off