TruVue Vango - Owner's Thread - Page 10 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 6Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #271 of 859 Old 04-11-2011, 08:54 PM
AVS Special Member
 
CoreyM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 2,358
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 91 Post(s)
Liked: 88
The price is already very competitive for its segment. People are buying or at least considering buying these projectors who are otherwise priced out of the LED market.

The JVC's are in a much more mature and competitive market.

XBox: King Nuthin
CoreyM is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #272 of 859 Old 04-11-2011, 09:28 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
millerwill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Berkeley, CA
Posts: 11,445
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked: 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoreyM View Post

The price is already very competitive for its segment.

Compared to other led dlp's, yes. But they still street for about twice that of a JVC, and it's not easy to justify that price differential when the JVC (even my 3 yr old RS20) throws such a dynamic pic. (I'd love to have a Vango here to see it side-by-side!)
millerwill is online now  
post #273 of 859 Old 04-11-2011, 09:44 PM
AVS Special Member
 
CoreyM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 2,358
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 91 Post(s)
Liked: 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

Compared to other led dlp's, yes. But they still street for about twice that of a JVC, and it's not easy to justify that price differential when the JVC (even my 3 yr old RS20) throws such a dynamic pic. (I'd love to have a Vango here to see it side-by-side!)

But there you go right there, the RS20 was 3rd or 4th gen D-ILA and is 3 years old and has since been replaced by a newer product that by most accounts is being priced at an absolute knock out price in an attempt to corner the market. How does that compare to a first gen product of a completely different technology offering? Not to mention that one of the big tradeoffs with the Vango is that you're paying a high entry free to get a low lifetime operating cost.

Sure if you buy a new projector every year or two then that extra entry price buys a whole ton of new lamps but if you keep a projector for 5 or 6 years like I have with my last projector that cost starts to cover itself, especially if you're using the projector a lot more thanks to the peace of mind the LED provides.

XBox: King Nuthin
CoreyM is offline  
post #274 of 859 Old 04-11-2011, 09:51 PM
AVS Special Member
 
HoustonHoyaFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 3,964
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

... But they still street for about twice that of a JVC, and it's not easy to justify that price differential when the JVC (even my 3 yr old RS20) throws such a dynamic pic...

Which JVC? If we follow your logic, no one would buy a RS60 because it is > 2.5 times the price of a RS40. Taken a step further, no one would buy a RS40 since it costs almost 2x a JVC 250 or 3x a Mits 4000.
HoustonHoyaFan is online now  
post #275 of 859 Old 04-11-2011, 10:00 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
millerwill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Berkeley, CA
Posts: 11,445
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked: 47
Very good points, Corey. An RS1 was my first pj, and I loved it! Kept it 2 yrs, then an RS20 and was planning to replace it after 2 yrs (this yr) but didn't think the new ones were a significant enough advance (since I'm not interested in 3d). And I'm interested in the Vango, in fact planning to visit Mark H in a few weeks to see one (set up right, and in comparison to the new JVC). But before spending twice the price of a new JVC (or at least the ones to come out this fall), I need to see that it is significantly better.

I do appreciate the savings an led provides compared to a UHP lamp, though as you say, one can buy many lamps for $3 to 5K. (To me the more significant problem of the lamp is the fact that it changes over its lifetime.) We shall see (I hope!).
millerwill is online now  
post #276 of 859 Old 04-11-2011, 10:03 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
millerwill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Berkeley, CA
Posts: 11,445
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked: 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonHoyaFan View Post

Which JVC? If we follow your logic, no one would buy a RS60 because it is > 2.5 times the price of a RS40. Taken a step further, no one would buy a RS40 since it costs almost 2x a JVC 250 or 3x a Mits 4000.

I thought the RS20 was a significant advance over the RS1, and thus got one, and have been extremely happy with it. I didn't think the new JVC's this yr offered much more (since 3d was not imp to me), so I passed. I'm willing to pay, but not just for the act of shopping.
millerwill is online now  
post #277 of 859 Old 04-12-2011, 06:04 AM
AVS Special Member
 
b curry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: on the way to Hell, Michigan USA
Posts: 2,681
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoreyM View Post

But there you go right there, the RS20 was 3rd or 4th gen D-ILA and is 3 years old and has since been replaced by a newer product that by most accounts is being priced at an absolute knock out price in an attempt to corner the market. How does that compare to a first gen product of a completely different technology offering? Not to mention that one of the big tradeoffs with the Vango is that you're paying a high entry free to get a low lifetime operating cost.

Sure if you buy a new projector every year or two then that extra entry price buys a whole ton of new lamps but if you keep a projector for 5 or 6 years like I have with my last projector that cost starts to cover itself, especially if you're using the projector a lot more thanks to the peace of mind the LED provides.

Nothing wrong with your logic here. But I would point out that the Vango and Sim2 MICO are both from the same OEM platform which is going on 3 years old. As with all things electronic that old, you have to wonder if a replacement is around the corner or if development has stopped?
b curry is offline  
post #278 of 859 Old 04-12-2011, 09:44 AM
Super Moderator
 
Bob Sorel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 8,466
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Liked: 121
Note: I have absolutely no inside information whatsoever!!! The opinions expressed are my own.

I doubt that we will ever see a Vango II or equivalent. The Vango was probably a one shot deal. The way I see it, EE took an OED and wrote their own firmware for it just so that they could demonstrate their 3D color box technology. By using "their own projector" for the demonstrations, they would not be tied to any company - a smart move IMO. Since the current Vango is sufficient for demonstration purposes AND since EE have no real interest in selling projectors, why would they bother to develop a second generation projector? And it also follows that they will probably milk sales of the current unit for as long as they can - until a competitor releases either a similar product at a lower price or a superior product at the same price. For now, the Vango simply has no competition, so there is no reason to lower the price or to develop a better unit.
Bob Sorel is offline  
post #279 of 859 Old 04-12-2011, 09:57 AM
AVS Special Member
 
CoreyM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 2,358
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 91 Post(s)
Liked: 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by b curry View Post

Nothing wrong with your logic here. But I would point out that the Vango and Sim2 MICO are both from the same OEM platform which is going on 3 years old. As with all things electronic that old, you have to wonder if a replacement is around the corner or if development has stopped?

Well it has been hinted that there will be a brighter, 3D LED Sim2 projector in the coming year and that the price will be "up there".

And for what its worth the Vango's price did recently come down by virtue of the color box being included at the original price.

It won't surprise me if at some point we do see good LED home theater projectors in the $3500-5000 sweet spot but who knows when. I think more than a few thought that about 3-chip DLPs at one point too. A lot of manufacturers at that price point seem to like the current model which generates a lot of repeat buyers who replace at the end of their lamp cycles so what incentive would they have to sell a longer term solution?

XBox: King Nuthin
CoreyM is offline  
post #280 of 859 Old 04-12-2011, 10:19 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
millerwill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Berkeley, CA
Posts: 11,445
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked: 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Sorel View Post

Note: I have absolutely no inside information whatsoever!!! The opinions expressed are my own.

I doubt that we will ever see a Vango II or equivalent. The Vango was probably a one shot deal. The way I see it, EE took an OED and wrote their own firmware for it just so that they could demonstrate their 3D color box technology. By using "their own projector" for the demonstrations, they would not be tied to any company - a smart move IMO. Since the current Vango is sufficient for demonstration purposes AND since EE have no real interest in selling projectors, why would they bother to develop a second generation projector? And it also follows that they will probably milk sales of the current unit for as long as they can - until a competitor releases either a similar product at a lower price or a superior product at the same price. For now, the Vango simply has no competition, so there is no reason to lower the price or to develop a better unit.

Sorry to say, but you are probably right. BTW, Bob, have you gone the Vango route?
millerwill is online now  
post #281 of 859 Old 04-12-2011, 10:45 AM
Advanced Member
 
danieledmunds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Bermuda
Posts: 991
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 17
I tend to agree as well, no incentive to release anything for the time being. I have been convinced by fellow member - rovingtravler that these are bright enough to cope with some ambient light or light up a decent sized screen, which is IMO the main reason people are holding off on them. I think LED would probably work for most people.
When you consider the limits of DLP and the heat that more LEDs would produce, doubling the number of LEDs and finding a way to keep them cool and quiet is about all you could expect from future models. And then obviously, black levels would suffer in those hypothetical double lumen modes

danieledmunds is offline  
post #282 of 859 Old 04-12-2011, 10:51 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Pete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,662
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Liked: 29
UHP lamp-driven projectors (as compared to LED projectors) have much in common with inkjet printers and injector razors: you can pay now or pay later.
Pete is online now  
post #283 of 859 Old 04-12-2011, 11:00 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
noah katz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Mountain View, CA USA
Posts: 20,802
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 415 Post(s)
Liked: 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyrax View Post

You may want to stick with a 1.0 gain screen. Higher gain screens have one big problem. There is a real "sweet spot" with my screen.

Dunno if you have a HP, but for it it's not a problem until the gain has is less than the low gain screen.

Noah
noah katz is offline  
post #284 of 859 Old 04-12-2011, 11:04 AM
Senior Member
 
PhotoKevin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 434
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 15
When doing my analysis, I came to the conclusion that you can buy many lamps for the difference in price of the Vango (or any LED projector) What the real kicker for me is that I don't have to worry about the dimming and subsequent recalibration. It frees me from monkeying with the projector and just getting down to enjoy it.

I have made the jump but am anxiously waiting for the projector to arrive.

Kevin
PhotoKevin is offline  
post #285 of 859 Old 04-12-2011, 11:46 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Pete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,662
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Liked: 29
If you buy a new lamp every time output decreases to 50% -- about 500hrs in the case of the typical LCOS -- and the lamp is $300+, that can add up pretty fast. And Kevin is right: it's a pain to be constantly adjusting the calibration for lamp decay. Freedom from the above is nice, but one of the things I like best is being able to turn the projector on and off like a table radio...no lamp damage when the neighborhood loses power, no interminable delay for cool down and reboot every time the off command is accidentally pushed.
Pete is online now  
post #286 of 859 Old 04-12-2011, 01:11 PM
Super Moderator
 
Bob Sorel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 8,466
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Liked: 121
Quote:


BTW, Bob, have you gone the Vango route?

No, unfortunately not. I am a big fan of high quality DLP, and I am sure that the Vango would satisfy me a lot more than my current RS-35. If the Vango was priced $3k lower I would jump on it in a heartbeat. Right now it is a simple matter of economics, not a matter of preference.
Quote:


If you buy a new lamp every time output decreases to 50% -- about 500hrs in the case of the typical LCOS -- and the lamp is $300+, that can add up pretty fast. And Kevin is right: it's a pain to be constantly adjusting the calibration for lamp decay. Freedom from the above is nice, but one of the things I like best is being able to turn the projector on and off like a table radio...no lamp damage when the neighborhood loses power, no interminable delay for cool down and reboot every time the off command is accidentally pushed.

Right...all very good reasons for owning the Vango. Set it and forget it and just enjoy the great picture for a long time...I like that idea a LOT!
Bob Sorel is offline  
post #287 of 859 Old 04-12-2011, 01:11 PM
AVS Special Member
 
rovingtravler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Clovis, NM
Posts: 1,262
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Pete,

I agree those are some of the best parts about owning a LED projector. Watch a 30 min show turn it off have dinner turn it on watch movie, shut down use the computer, come back watch another show etc.

David

"You buy a Ferrari when you want to be somebody. You buy a Lamborghini when you are somebody." - Frank Sinatra
rovingtravler is offline  
post #288 of 859 Old 04-12-2011, 01:31 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
millerwill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Berkeley, CA
Posts: 11,445
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked: 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Sorel View Post

No, unfortunately not. I am a big fan of high quality DLP, and I am sure that the Vango would satisfy me a lot more than my current RS-35. If the Vango was priced $3k lower I would jump on it in a heartbeat. Right now it is a simple matter of economics, not a matter of preference.

I'm pretty much right where you are, though still with a RS20. I will be seeing Mark H's Vango soon, though, so am curious whether or not I'll be motivated to make the jump.
millerwill is online now  
post #289 of 859 Old 04-12-2011, 02:10 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Hyrax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Eastern Massachusetts
Posts: 2,572
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 17
The most interesting thing about the Vango is that I never feel like I need to fiddle with any of its settings. It is amazing how effortless it is to have amazing PQ. It sort of reminds me of the day I bought my first trinitron TV forty years ago. For 15 years I could just turn it on and enjoy watching TV.
Hyrax is online now  
post #290 of 859 Old 04-12-2011, 02:15 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
millerwill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Berkeley, CA
Posts: 11,445
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked: 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyrax View Post

The most interesting thing about the Vango is that I never feel like I need to fiddle with any of its settings. It is amazing how effortless it is to have amazing PQ. It sort of reminds me of the day I bought my first trinitron TV forty years ago. For 15 years I could just turn it on and enjoy watching TV.

Did you do calibrations--grayscale, gamma, CMS--yourself, with the Vango's own internal controls?
millerwill is online now  
post #291 of 859 Old 04-12-2011, 02:24 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Spizz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posts: 3,381
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 79 Post(s)
Liked: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

Sorry to say, but you are probably right.

Even though Sim2 are releasing a new updated LED unit soon I sadly will agree as well.
Spizz is offline  
post #292 of 859 Old 04-12-2011, 03:46 PM
AVS Special Member
 
HoustonHoyaFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 3,964
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 20
There is still a chance we may see BenQ (W30000) release an < $10K LED unit (Delta OEM) CEDIA 2011.
HoustonHoyaFan is online now  
post #293 of 859 Old 04-12-2011, 04:11 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Pete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,662
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Liked: 29
If the Vango is a one-shot deal for EE, I wonder how long into the future they will be able to support it with parts and service? Am I the only one that wonders how they can survive without much of a dealer network? Selling sunglasses or teddy bears direct to consumers on the internet is one thing; selling high end LED projectors that way seems more questionable as a sustainable long-term proposition.
Pete is online now  
post #294 of 859 Old 04-12-2011, 06:47 PM
Senior Member
 
PhotoKevin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 434
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete View Post

If the Vango is a one-shot deal for EE, I wonder how long into the future they will be able to support it with parts and service? Am I the only one that wonders how they can survive without much of a dealer network? Selling sunglasses or teddy bears direct to consumers on the internet is one thing; selling high end LED projectors that way seems more questionable as a sustainable long-term proposition.

Hey, I bought a Dwin the first time.


Kevin
PhotoKevin is offline  
post #295 of 859 Old 04-12-2011, 07:02 PM
AVS Special Member
 
HoustonHoyaFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 3,964
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete View Post

If the Vango is a one-shot deal for EE, I wonder how long into the future they will be able to support it with parts and service?...

I suspect they have the same parts and service agreement with their OEM supplier as Sim2 and Runco does.
HoustonHoyaFan is online now  
post #296 of 859 Old 04-13-2011, 07:58 AM
Advanced Member
 
Citation4444's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Georgia Mountains
Posts: 891
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 27
I notice that both the Vango and my Mico 50 have identical warnings in their user manuals.
Quote:
A polarizing screen cannot be used with this projector.
So, which screens should be avoided with this projector? How does this manifest itself? Lower gain? Affect one color more than another? Does the Da-Lite HP screen have this issue? Can someone shed a little more light on this issue? I apologize if this has been discussed before, but a quick search of this thread yielded nothing.
Citation4444 is offline  
post #297 of 859 Old 04-13-2011, 08:10 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Pete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,662
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Liked: 29
I think the warning is in reference to silver screens like those used in passive 3D scenarios.
Pete is online now  
post #298 of 859 Old 04-13-2011, 08:24 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Pete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,662
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Liked: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonHoyaFan View Post
I suspect they have the same parts and service agreement with their OEM supplier as Sim2 and Runco does.
I'm sure they do. But how long will they exercise that agreement if the enterprise fails to attain lift off?
Pete is online now  
post #299 of 859 Old 04-13-2011, 12:04 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Hyrax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Eastern Massachusetts
Posts: 2,572
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

Did you do calibrations--grayscale, gamma, CMS--yourself, with the Vango's own internal controls?

I had AVS calibrate it before sending it to me.
Hyrax is online now  
post #300 of 859 Old 04-13-2011, 12:48 PM
 
bobbijean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 102
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete View Post

If the Vango is a one-shot deal for EE, I wonder how long into the future they will be able to support it with parts and service? Am I the only one that wonders how they can survive without much of a dealer network? Selling sunglasses or teddy bears direct to consumers on the internet is one thing; selling high end LED projectors that way seems more questionable as a sustainable long-term proposition.

EE is involved in much larger projects behind the scenes. The company is made up of a larger network of industry insiders. Expect to see other surprises in the future.
BTW I viewed the Vango at Mark Haflichs house this week and liked the clear and soft look of the DLP. It does shoot a great picture. Up till now I have only had the pleasure of viewing the SXRD/Lcos technology. I was concerned as I left the PJ on most of the night. Then remembered it was LED. Good thing.
Thanks Mark for your hospitality.
bobbijean is offline  
Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

Tags
Epson , Stewart Firehawk G3

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off